Slowbro (Revamp) [QC 2/3]

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Jukain

Jukain

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just getting this up for now before i forget

Overview
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- slowbro is a solid defensive threat in the metagame with great defensive bulk and typing that let it handle a ton of threats in the metagame eg zard x, keldeo, lando-t, non-gk gross, av azu, mega lopunny, talonflame, mamoswine, etc
- regen + slack off makes it extremely easy to keep healthy and a nice defensive pivot
- megabro has base 180 defense which lets it take basically zero from the majority of physical attackers while being able to set up and sweep with cm, enhanced by an ability that makes it immune to crits and regen as long as it is unevolved, a fearsome sweeper
- wide movepool gives it a ton of options to tackle different foes

Calm Mind
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name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Psyshock / Iron Defense
move 4: Slack Off
ability: Regenerator
item: Slowbronite
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD

Moves
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- cm boosts slowbro's weaker sdef which with its ridiculous defense makes it really difficult to break while making 130 satk scalds really hurt
- scald is standard stab with a useful burn chance that can cripple physical attackers and get useful chip damage on a lot of pokemon
- psyshock hits cm clefable, subcm keldeo, amoonguss, mega venusaur, non-toxic chansey, mega altaria (so heal bell dd variants can't just set up and beat it), manaphy (beating cm and non-eball tg variants with ease), normal gyara subs, azu (so bd can't just set up if it avoids a scald burn), crocune, and random water immune stuff like gastro that's run just for mega slowbro
- by forgoing psyshock for iron defense, some coverage is lost but this makes slowbro much more of an impenetrable tank, as iron defense makes it pretty much impossible to break on the physical side espec in regards to boosters, setting up on sd bisharp and dd altaria for instance
- slack off is just reliable recovery to keep slowbro healthy

Set Details
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- evs assure lo diggersby doesn't 2hko with return after rocks and by extension ohko with +2 return while providing a healthy amount of special bulk to take on special attackers like latios, keldeo, and with cm boosts even some mons with super effective stabs
- alt spread of 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD assures latios doesn't ohko with draco after rocks and keldeo doesn't 2hko with specs hydro after rocks
- regen keeps slowbro healthy until it mega evolves and lets it pivot like normal bro except without lefties recovery

Usage Tips
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- wait to mega until late-game so that slowbro can pivot around and keep regen unless there's some threat that you really need the outrageous physical bulk afforded by megaing for
- when its counters are out of the way, set it up on things like lopunny, megagross, keldeo, etc basically any threat that can't break it
- make sure you scout opp slowbro/chansey/gliscor/etc for toxic before setting up only to be cripple by the status

Team Options
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- general status absorber type mons like ph gliscor, clefable, and chansey are useful partners for this set, unaware clef is a great partner on balanced squads with heal bell to get rid of status inflicted on slowbro so it doesn't have to care so much about things like heatran that it can beat, but will cripple it with a status
- things to deal with sd bisharp, keldeo is a great example as are scarftar/phys def gliscor/chesnaught
- checks to common electrics/grasses (thund, manec, msceptile, breloom, etc) that can be annoying for this set, the best examples are mixed def clef, celebi, ferro, and tran
- celebi is also a great partner on the whole because it can function as a status absorber and deals with tg rd eball manaphy, just gotta cover that bisharp weakness though slowbro doesn't care too much about bisharp because even adamant lo knock off doesn't 2hko
- smth for gar, sdef gliscor and scarftar are the best choices

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Psyshock / Foul Play / Fire Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Slack Off
ability: Regenerator
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD

Moves
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- scald is a great, spammable stab move with a useful burn chance that can cripple physical attackers
- second slot is pick a status: toxic cripples cm megabro, zard x, and various defensive type of switch-ins
- twave is a more direct way of stopping dders and speed-reliant pokemon from getting anything done but doesn't prevent dd zard x from beating it unless you have foul play or other ways of revenging/deal with it
- third slot is basically whatever utility offensive move you need to cover threats
- foul play punishes zard x extremely well in addition to mons like subdd normal gyara, latios, kyub, bd azu (sort of), mega gallade, weakened dragonite (it does a bit over half to +1 dnite, and pinsir trying to avoid a scald burn and set up to kill at +2
- psyshock punishes keldeo trying to fish for a scald burn and hits subcm keldeo while breaking normal gyara subs and threatening amoonguss/venusaur
- fire blast hits ferro, zor, skarm that want to defog, and bisharp (scald hurts this but fire blast does way more)
- ice beam can help cover a gliscor weakness and hits dragonite, offensive dd mega alt, latios, mega sceptile, and sd chomp
- slack off provides crucial reliable recovery that ensures slowbro can keep itself healthy consistently, especially in combination with regen + lefties

Set Details
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- ev spread lives 2 keld hydros after rocks while being as physically bulky as possible
- can run slowbronite for added physical bulk, run 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD for the same spdef benchmark if so or 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD to avoid the ko from latios draco after rocks
- regen lets slowbro keep itself healthy with much greater ease

Usage Tips
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- basically to be played as a defensive pivot, bring it into w/e threats keld, zard x, lop, etc
- proceed to fire off a scald or status as the opponent switches out
- if slowbro gets to low (ie in 2hko range after regen or w/e) then go for slack off

Team Options
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- mostly stuff to deal with latis, elecs, grasses, gar, gyara, bisharp, and clef
- mixed def clef is a great partner because it deals with latis, the most common elecs (thund/manec/raikou), and msceptile
- scarftar matches up well against gar/latis (pursuit trapping them) while checking bisharp with scarf superpower and checking all of the elecs to some degree at the least
- if not running psyshock, a secondary answer to keldeo that can deal with subcm; latios is probably the best example, but stuff like celebi and unaware clefable also work
- for latis: tran, ferro, scarftar, and megagross (espec suit) are some other good choices to deal with them

Offensive Tank
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name: Offensive Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Fire Blast / Psychic
move 3: Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Psychic
move 4: Slack Off
ability: Regenerator
item: Slowbronite
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpA

Moves
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- scald is the main spammable stab, burns stuff and hits p hard off 130 satk etc
- fire blast hits ferro, zor, and bisharp while also providing useful super effective coverage on stuff like magnezone, amoonguss, and breloom
- ice beam hits dragons mainly latis dnite alt as well as preventing chomp from even getting in any damage with boosted eqs and hitting msceptile
- alternate coverage slashes:
-- psychic is a strong stab that is particularly useful vs waters (subcm keldeos, rotom-w, normal gyara, mola, azu) and certain grasses (amoon and venu)
-- gk hits opp slowbros, gyara (espec mega), and subcm keld
- slack off keeps bro healthy

Set Details
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- evs avoid the 2hko zard x dclaw
- regen is preferred as it allows slowbro to function as a more effective pivot if the game calls for it
- can throw in 80 sdef evs to avoid the 2hko from specs keld hydro after rocks if it's especially necessary

Usage Tips
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- unlike other megabro sets, should typically be mega evolved earlier on to take advantage of the great power this set possesses, as well as gain the physical bulk that base form slowbro doesn't really have as much of with this spread
- usually you want to fire off scalds right off the bat for some damage and the potential to burns things the foe wants to switch into slowbro
- in some scenarios it's advised to predict switches with the coverage moves eg against rotom with psychic, latios with ice beam, etc in order to exert pressure

Team Options
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- fits nicely on balanced and bulky offense where you want the defensive capabilities of slowbro but appreciate the coverage/luring capability more as opposed to sweeping potential
(rest c/p'd from other sets)
- gyara check eg ferro, keldeo, chesnaught; keld synergizes well in general because it resists dark (even though this set cares much less about this because it walls bisharp in ttar)
- checks to common electrics/grasses (thund, manec, msceptile, breloom, etc) that can be annoying for this set, the best examples are mixed def clef, celebi, ferro, and tran
- celebi is also a great partner on the whole because it can function as a status absorber and deals with tg rd eball manaphy, just gotta cover that bisharp weakness though slowbro doesn't care too much about bisharp because even adamant lo knock off doesn't 2hko
- smth for gar, sdef gliscor and scarftar are the best choices

Other Options
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- resttalk mega cm
- rest no sleep talk on cm sets
- oblivious for taunters
- normal bro w/ cm
- av
- trick room (either standalone or semi/dedicated tr teams

Checks & Counters
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(for mega)
- electrics eg mane, raikou, thundurus, specs zone
- dd heal bell mega altaria
- subdd mega gyarados
- cm sp clefable (for non-psyshock versions) and cm unaware for all
- opp toxic slowbro
- tg eball manaphy
- cb tar
- mew
- np celebi
- mega sceptile
- heal block latios
- bug bite mzor as long as it avoids the burn
- mpedo
- random toxics work p well in general in terms of crippling it, examples: tran, lop, spdef drill, gliscor, jirachi, chansey, klefki, cress, mola, fat chomp
- offensive pressure to stop it from setting up, putting a decent dent in it with something that can 2hko but not live an attack -> killing it off with something else that couldn't break it at full health

(additional things that deal with normal bro)
- mons that don't mind status much, espec things like chansey and clefable
- latios
- bulky grasses espec celebi/amoon/venu
- bisharp
- cb/bd azu though it doesn't like burns
 
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I realize that this is still a WIP, so I apologize if there's anything I mention here that you just haven't had time to include yet.

Any particular reason for the 248 HP EVs on most of the sets? Slowbro's max HP is 394, which isn't divisible by 16, 8, or even 4, so it doesn't hit any important passive damage numbers. I guess it helps a little with Super Fang? I suppose that's a little more relevant now that Super Fang is a pretty decent move on Chesnaught (and Mega Glalie gets it too, I guess), but it's still a really situational perk, and I can't think of anything else that 248 HP helps with. It'd probably be slightly more efficient to just max out the HP investment on the various sets, in my opinion. That said, the EV spread in the Set Details of the first set is missing 4 EVs, so you can just toss those into HP or wherever else.

Also, I definitely support a Slowbronite slash on the standard defensive set. It's amazing what that extra physical bulk and power can do for Slowbro and what it can offer to defensive/balanced teams. For example:

+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 124-148 (42.6 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Slowbro: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 156-184 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So while regular Slowbro will probably just deal 50% damage at best and then die, Mega Slowbro can counter Offensive DD Mega Altaria if it's healthy enough. Another example off the top of my head:

+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Foul Play has a great shot to OHKO regardless of which Slowbro form you're using, but Mega Slowbro's extra physical bulk and the lesser damage it takes from Knock Off allow it to counter Mega Gallade as well, despite the fact that the latter is carrying the best Dark-type coverage move in the game. And then, how can we forget this guy:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Slowbro: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

Yeah, not counting Leftovers, Mega Slowbro is taking less damage from a +2 Dragon Claw than regular Slowbro is taking from the same move at just +1. Wow.

I can come up with more examples if you'd like, but the bottom line is that Mega Slowbro's extra bulk and power can give it a pretty significant advantage over regular Slowbro in many circumstances. As I've said before, Regenerator is a fantastic ability, but it's doing jack for you when you're switching in and taking 60%+ damage from attacks. Mega Slowbro's additional physical bulk let's it actually counter things that regular Slowbro could only dream of safely beating, which takes some pressure off its teammates.

Also, thoughts on a more classic Calm Mind set? Mainly just Calm Mind / Scald / Psyshock / Slack Off. The extra coverage offered by Psyshock is pretty nice, especially since it lets Slowbro kill some of the things that resist Scald more quickly since it won't have to set up an absurd amount of Calm Minds to do it. Even more importantly, it helps Slowbro win Calm Mind wars against other users such as Clefable.

I like Mega Slowbro. :3
 
Changed CM spread to 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD, which hits a Defense jump point and is thus more effic, and offensive tank spread to max HP / max SpA. I'd like a bit more input on Slowbronite for the defensive set still. You kinda need Special Attack investment to beat Mega Altaria and in general it seems hard to justify over using a different Mega Slowbro set or different Mega.
 
Slowbronite should definitely get a slash on the first set, it's a very nice catch all to physical sweepers for defensive teams not running Mega Sableye.

Also, a CM + two attacks set such as the one that Gibbs mentioned could get a set details mention on the MegaCroBro set, but i don't think it's good enough for a main set.

Grass Knot should be slashed somewhere on the tank Mega Bro set, it covers Greninja, (Mega) Slowbro, Mega Gyarados, Mega Swampert, Starmie, and some other bulky Water-types.

Finally, i am sure there is a better spread on the tank Mega Slowbro set than max HP / max SpA+ (i mean with more Defense), will do some calcs and come back with results later.
 
Yeah I've used Slowbronite myself, but I had a few reservations as to slashing it; slashed it now.

Also slashed GK on the Tank set. Was planning to mention CM + 2 attacks anyways.
 
alexwolf said:
Finally, i am sure there is a better spread on the tank Mega Slowbro set than max HP / max SpA+ (i mean with more Defense), will do some calcs and come back with results later.
Click to expand...

If you want a little more physical bulk, one option is a 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpA Modest spread. You have enough SpA investment to hit the last available jump point, and the physical bulk is a little more than enough to avoid the 2HKO from max Atk Charizard X's +1 Dragon Claw from full health (Psychic and Scald 2HKO in return). In fact, you only really need 36 Def EVs to hit that benchmark, so the other 4 could be placed in Spe to beat other base 30s with no investment. I wouldn't go much lower than that with regards to special power, though, since Mega Slowbro really wants as much power as it can get.

On a side note, I also wouldn't do one of those weird spreads where you take EVs out of HP for Def. Mega Slowbro's Def stat is so insanely high that you'll actually end up hurting its physical bulk if you move too many HP EVs to Def, and you'll obviously lose lots of special bulk in the process as well.
 
Actually you do gain some physical bulk, but the gain in physical bulk is at best no more than the special bulk you lose, and I think it'd be better to take the points out of SDef if you want to hit the jump point.
Also going 248 HP instead of max merely decreases the amount you heal from Slack Off.
 
i calc'd out some things with the different spreads as compared to 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD. it turns out that 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD has 0.15% more physical bulk and 0.77% less special bulk, while 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD has 0.92% more physical bulk and 1.15% less special bulk. the first spread is clearly worse. the second spread has a pretty big decrease in special bulk and from some calcs the physical bulk increase doesn't seem relevant enough to compensate. going with the 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD spread.

changed the physical tank spread to agent gibbs'
 
I think it might be worth considering 4 Spe EVs on the CM set because it makes sure you don't have to speed tie with opposing Amoonguss and worry about Spore or Clear Smog or whatever. It also speed creeps opposing Slowbro and neutral Reuniclus for what it's worth.
 
Gimmick said:
I think it might be worth considering 4 Spe EVs on the CM set because it makes sure you don't have to speed tie with opposing Amoonguss and worry about Spore or Clear Smog or whatever. It also speed creeps opposing Slowbro and neutral Reuniclus for what it's worth.
Click to expand...
That makes sense, but creep isn't allowed in analyses.
 
It's not really speed creeping. You're trying to beat Amoonguss with no speed investment, which is a concrete benchmark, just like trying to outspeed a Pokemon with maximum investment. If you were trying to beat Amoonguss with some random amount of speed investment (like 20 EVs or something), that would be speed creeping.
 
Agent Gibbs said:
It's not really speed creeping. You're trying to beat Amoonguss with no speed investment, which is a concrete benchmark, just like trying to outspeed a Pokemon with maximum investment. If you were trying to beat Amoonguss with some random amount of speed investment (like 20 EVs or something), that would be speed creeping.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying, but it still creates the same problem as speed creep because Amoonguss has a free 4 EVs on its standard set. Who's to say you can't move that from SpDef to Spe on its analysis? Anything resembling creep is probably bad because they don't actually have an objective value, but I'd wait for QC opinion anyway because they might think differently.
 
Oh, you're not running 8 EVs for 4 Spe Amoonguss, you're just running 4 EVs for uninvested Amoonguss. Some people prefer to put all 508 EVs into defenses and don't invest in Spe despite what the analysis says, so being able to beat those variants is pretty handy. But yeah, 8 EVs would be speed creeping and would not be allowed, but 4 EVs is fine.

EDIT: Oh, I think I get what you're saying. To answer your question, there's nothing stopping Amoonguss from running 4 Spe as opposed to what the analysis recommends, but the fact is that many don't. Minimum and maximum Spe investment are both concrete benchmarks that we're allowed to beat in the analyses, and it has been done before (I can find some examples if you'd like, but it'll be a while before I have more free time).
 
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Make mention of Serperior in Checks & Counters now it has Contrary; easily beats any variant of Slowbro. Even 252 HP/252 SpD is 2HKOd by unboosted leaf storm, and after the first Serperior's at +2 to OHKO anyway.
 
Is Oblivious viable on any of the Mega Slowbro sets, or is its ability to act as a Regenerator pivot even while holding Slowbronite too good to pass up?

With Oblivious, you can rack up a couple turns' worth of Calm Mind or Iron Defense boosts without fearing Taunt before Mega Evolving. And obviously, once you do Mega Evolve, Slowbro loses Regenerator anyway...
 
theSCRIB said:
Is Oblivious viable on any of the Mega Slowbro sets, or is its ability to act as a Regenerator pivot even while holding Slowbronite too good to pass up?

With Oblivious, you can rack up a couple turns' worth of Calm Mind or Iron Defense boosts without fearing Taunt before Mega Evolving. And obviously, once you do Mega Evolve, Slowbro loses Regenerator anyway...
Click to expand...
You lose a bunch of early-game utility without Regenerator, but a TR set would definitely appreciate it
 
why not just slash iron defense along with psyshock on cm megabro instead of making 2 different sets for it as they more or less accomplish the same role? also mention how foul play is a good way to dispose of +2 mega gallade, as that is a huge threat to the team archetype slowbro is often featured on.

+2 0- Atk Slowbro Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 258-304 (93.1 - 109.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 340-402 (86.2 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

actually i would argue that oblivious is very viable on cm megabro since offense has a really hard time breaking it after a boost or two, they often resort to having to taunt it to prevent from getting swept by it. oblivious makes for a very effective countermeasure against stallbreaking, which stall obviously has trouble with lol. this doesn't just apply for offensive teams, balance and bulky offense alike have trouble breaking it without taunt and having the liberty to set up and heal up freely is very beneficial, especially if we are considering that this is for the most part a standalone sweeper. as long as they don't have a strong super effective stab move that can force you out, then slowbro can freely set up(even ferro is set up bait ._.). viable taunters in ou are: gard gengar gliscor gyara tran mew mandi talon terrak thund zam zelf. out of this list, only taunt mega gyara can really beat you as after a couple boost, slowbro can take them on pretty handily.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 176 SpD Mega Slowbro: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 176 SpD Mega Slowbro: 172-203 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 176 SpD Mega Slowbro: 182-218 (46.1 - 55.3%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 176 SpD Mega Slowbro: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
196 Atk Azelf Explosion vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 131-155 (33.2 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

so yeah i'd give a slash to oblivious after regenerator as they both have their uses. 1/3
 
hey I don't understand why doubleboosting Slowbro runs 80 Def EVs to avoid 2hko from +2 lo diggersby after rocks when

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Slowbro: 265-312 (67.2 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

edit: fail calc lol
 
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CyberWolf said:
hey I don't understand why doubleboosting Slowbro runs 80 Def EVs to avoid 2hko from +2 lo diggersby after rocks when

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 265-312 (67.2 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Click to expand...
the given ev's let mega slowbro avoid the 2hko from life orb diggersby after rocks, not the regular version
 
On your Defensive set you listed Psyshock as the first slash but then made a mention of Foul Play before Psyshock in your moves. I know this was because of Foul Play being slashed first originally so it's just a small detail. All of ben gay's stuff and you should be good for now.
 
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