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Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]
- Thread starter Haaku.
- Start date
- Status
Yes. In order to fully fix the Mega Banette exploit, Substitute had to be banned.
A Sub + Prankster ban and a Sub + Bannetite ban on top of that was just not going to happen. Between Substitute and Prankster, the metagame suffers less from Substitute being banned. We understand this really sucks but it’s our only presentable option.
Tagging PrincessGardevoir to say sorry :(
Why is substitute being banned, thats taking a step back in the meta. We already had sub + prankster banned, and the mega banette was an exploit to the ban. Remember wimpod and how at first emergency exit was banned, but then an exploit was discovered so emergency exit + regen was banned to fix it. This is the exact same scenario and now you are just choosing that you would rather have sub banned? Either ban mega banette or mega banette + sub, ottherwise you are banning healthy strategies for no reason. If you start doing this and start banning random things that arent broken, then the meta will start to die and people will stop playing.
Sorry if I didn’t make it clear with the post above:
We can’t ban Bannetite + Sub because it simply won’t be implemented.
We can’t ban Bannetite + Sub because it simply won’t be implemented.
Banette isn’t broken either. I do agree with you but this isn’t the right logic to go about it. If you disagree with this, complain to other people because I’m not saying I don’t want that to happen.
Ok, but you explained that Sub was banned because out of Prankster and Sub being banned, Sub would affct less the meta. But why not keep the Prankster + Sub ban and also ban Bannetite? I'm pretty sure that Mega Bannete being banned will affect the meta a whole lot less than Substitute being banned.
^This.
I'm not saying this because I just want to meme with SubPunch Guts Poison Heal Conkeldurr (although that's a major reason), but that hurts Poison Heal teams in general (SubTect is something I see on several members like the Guts user and Gliscor himself), as well as just indirectly taking out a move that is used across a crap ton of Pokemon.
Banettite is only used because of that exploit, since Banette has a poor movepool, mediocre stats besides its humongous Attack stat, and in general, if you want a Prankster user, Thundurus-I provides more offensive utility, Sableye can fulfill a much more important Mega as well as has Magic Bounce for whenever a team may need it while doubling up on carrying Prankster beforehand, and Klefki is a much more supportive mon. You've got three examples of Pokemon that can fulfill a Prankster-passing role, and themselves are better Pokemon. Banning Banettite won't change anything besides making it so we don't have to remove a move because of other exploits that happen to synergize well with it.
Banettite being banned with Sub should merely be an extention of the rule anyways, since getting Prankster that way should, well, not be allowed.
moments later edit: Agreeing with Jrsmash, please don't go around doing this. I really wanna see this meta keep going.
The Immortal are you ok with this? I am also down but I was told by multiple people that banning Banettite won’t happen because it’s an apparent random ban. Sub is a bit easier to explain but hurts the meta more than Banette.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-705643971
I seriously hope Regenerator is getting banned soon. Regen spam makes for switching stall fests that make games uncompetitive and last too long. It’s one thing in regular metas when they don’t have 5 other abilities on top of it, but every mon having Regen in this meta is clearly busted. Spam clicking switches doesn’t take skill and makes it too easy for unskilled players to beat more skilled ones. That’s the very definition of what’s bannable in competitive Pokémon. And if the team also had magic bounce? Then you’re screwed without a mold breaker with rocks, but one hazard alone is not enough to destroy regen spam’s healing unless it’s something with a 4x weakness to rocks. Banning Regenerator, not magic bounce is the way to go because without regen, magic bounce becomes more niche and less centralizing, or if it does still get used a lot, the one hazard is enough to counter the likes of sturdy and multiscale. Without regen, sturdy and multiscale become much less centralizing, so it becomes less critical for players to run magic bounce. Removing Regen therefore balances heavily centralized abilities but without making them entirely useless, just refocusing on more traditional hazard control such as rapid spin and defog rather than just mindlessly slapping on magic bounce like people did with guard. The difference is magic bounce isn’t broken on its own - it takes regen to make it so.
I know I’m too late to vote on the actual poll, but I’ll be damned if I don’t present my reasoning for banning such a broken ability anyway. BAN REGENERATOR
I seriously hope Regenerator is getting banned soon. Regen spam makes for switching stall fests that make games uncompetitive and last too long. It’s one thing in regular metas when they don’t have 5 other abilities on top of it, but every mon having Regen in this meta is clearly busted. Spam clicking switches doesn’t take skill and makes it too easy for unskilled players to beat more skilled ones. That’s the very definition of what’s bannable in competitive Pokémon. And if the team also had magic bounce? Then you’re screwed without a mold breaker with rocks, but one hazard alone is not enough to destroy regen spam’s healing unless it’s something with a 4x weakness to rocks. Banning Regenerator, not magic bounce is the way to go because without regen, magic bounce becomes more niche and less centralizing, or if it does still get used a lot, the one hazard is enough to counter the likes of sturdy and multiscale. Without regen, sturdy and multiscale become much less centralizing, so it becomes less critical for players to run magic bounce. Removing Regen therefore balances heavily centralized abilities but without making them entirely useless, just refocusing on more traditional hazard control such as rapid spin and defog rather than just mindlessly slapping on magic bounce like people did with guard. The difference is magic bounce isn’t broken on its own - it takes regen to make it so.
I know I’m too late to vote on the actual poll, but I’ll be damned if I don’t present my reasoning for banning such a broken ability anyway. BAN REGENERATOR
Yes.
Another post that I completely agree with. The biggest impacts that Magic Bounce and Magic Guard have had are invalidating hazards and status. Invalidating hazards has allowed Multiscale and Sturdy to flourish, while invalidating status has destroyed classic Stall. However, Stall has adapted to become pp stall, which is horrible and uncompetitive when 2 stall players face each other. When you have to rely on the infinite battle clause to end games you know it's bad for the metagame. As for invalidating hazards, it is refreshing to be able to use a Talonflame or Charizard without the fear of losing half your health just by switching in. However, this has of course allowed Sturdy and Multiscale to flourish, effectively doubling the amount of Pokemon on your team in an HO vs HO matchup. Now, Skill Link was run a lot to combat these strategies, and it worked. Having a 187.5 power move is extremely useful, especially when it beats Sturdy and Multiscale, which are spammed. However, as has been previously mentioned by NestorKennard and others, Skill Link Technician teams have about the same base power moves as Guts teams. Now, Guts teams are a lot worse due to the Quick Feet ban and the lack of fast users, but they still pack a punch, especially if the counters of Multiscale and Sturdy are gone. But I feel like the reason that Sturdy and Multiscale have become so prevalent is a lack of balance teams. After all, the necessity of having all your abilities work in tandem has made it essential that you either run all out stall or all out HO. Sturdy and Multiscale allowed teams to be slower and still win against fast HO due to their ability to live a hit and instantly kill any opponent. You needed Sturdy, Multiscale, or Skill Link to beat opposing Sturdy teams, and by running those you often lost to stall. This allowed stall players to get to the top of the ladder, but there were still more HO teams because not many people like running stall and taking 1000 turns on games where they run into opposing stall. So Sturdy was still your best bet, and you'd beat 90% of HO teams and lose to stall. The better your team was at beating HO, the better you did. But you'd still never get ahead of the stall players. And the teams that packed the power to beat stall couldn't beat Sturdy HO. Priority isn't reliable when 50% of teams run Lele, Bruxish, or Tsareena, so you needed Sturdy and/or speed. With more speed you got less power. And to run Sturdy you need 2 ability slots. And to beat Stamina, which became increasingly common on stall you needed Unaware. This gave you a lot less strength, making it harder to beat stall. However, if we ban Multiscale and Sturdy while bringing back Magic Guard and then ban something on stall we could make it so balance is necessary to stand up to HO. Being able to take hits from faster HO while being able to break a weakened stall would allow Balanced teams to work, making it so losing Sturdy and Multiscale would not make HO matchups completely reliant on these abilities. Slower but more powerful HO teams would be checked by fast HO, which would be checked by stall and possibly balance. There would still be an RPS element, but you hopefully would not only see games that take under 10 turns or over 500. Now we just need to find what element we need to remove on stall that would stop the horrible stall vs stall matchups and weaken it enough that balanced teams can hopefully break it without completely invalidating the playstyle. So that's what I hope will happen in the meta. But right now here's what I see.
Removing Magic Guard but keeping Magic Bounce has still allowed Sturdy and Multiscale to flourish. As I said before, the main uses of Magic Guard and Bounce are to stop hazards and status. The other uses of Magic Guard were cool but more niche. Since Magic Bounce doesn't completely invalidate hazards and status running a Mold Breaker mon has become popular to bypass those strategies. However, having to run Excadrill Pinsir or Druddigon to stop Sturdy or Multiscale is not the solution. Nobody likes a mandatory mon (and yes this may seem a bit hypocritical when I want to unban Magic Guard, but that's an ability that can work with a team, not just as a counter to others), and having to run them just gives you one less team slot, which can be disastrous in HO vs HO matchups. Iron Barbs and Rough Skin can now threaten to invalidate a lot of physical HO, making special teams better. However, special attackers can't hit as hard here, so they still often lose to stall. Anyway, that's my take on the current situation.
And now for some of the other changes that have been suggested. Unbanning Fluffy is a horrible idea. I hope people realize that it would completely invalidate physical attackers even more. It's literally a reverse Huge Power. Tough Claws + Hustle + No Guard is approximately a 2x boost. That is removed by Fluffy. Having to run Flash Fire isn't much of a sacrifice, and it's not even mandatory. Bewear is a strong Pokemon, and it would allow you to run more specially defensive mons, stopping special HO. After all, that's only boosted by 3 terrains, Adaptability, Download (which wouldn't even work against special defensive mons), Rain and Sun, and Solar Power. Terrains only work for 1 type of move, and they all have something immune to them (I'm counting Sap Sipper, and besides Bulu is a physical attacker), so they're not the most reliable strategy. Weather is a lot worse now with the bans on Chlorophyll and Swift Swim, and now that Magic Guard is banned you can't even reliably run Solar Power. But the point is that Fluffy would completely invalidate physical offense. Now as for banning Unaware, that would just make Stamina even better, as well as Beast Boost and Moxie. As for banning anti priority abilities, Triage on one moldy mon is already bad enough. And I don't want this to become espeed spam.
Anyway, hope this at least made some sense. I'd like your thoughts on what we could ban to weaken but not destroy stall.
TL;DR: Unban Magic Guard, ban Sturdy and Multiscale, nerf stall to stop 1000 turn battles but not completely invalidate it.
Last edited:
Substitute is still banned because of the difficulty with the complex ban of Bannetite + Substitute. That should get fixed soon.
lol what the fuck
MSPaintkeldurr is feeling rather sick today, due to all of the poisoning he's been getting (unusual to him, since he usually just uses a Flame Orb), so in his place MSPaintscor is here as a represenative from the Substitute Protection Agency, and says thanks Haaku :]]]]]]]]]]]
thanks for listening to all of our extremely loud complaining :]
Might as well make it a formal statement:
Mega Banette has been banned because it enabled a workaround around the Sub + Prankster ban since it obtains Prankster has been banned. While this Pokemon is not broken or viable, the metagame benefits from its ban because we now don’t need to ban Substitute or anything like that. RIP!
EDIT: goes without saying, but your Substitute Suicunes are now legal again. Cheers!
Mega Banette has been banned because it enabled a workaround around the Sub + Prankster ban since it obtains Prankster has been banned. While this Pokemon is not broken or viable, the metagame benefits from its ban because we now don’t need to ban Substitute or anything like that. RIP!
I have been planning to make a post about a team that I really liked in the MGuard not banned + Multiscale banned meta, and this comentary makes it an opportune time.
Some people might have fought the following team, used during the Multiscale meta, it was built around this almighty Slowbro-M that can so easily sweep so many teams:
After Multiscale got banned, I started experimenting to find which mon could replace Dragonite. In a certain match, I was using Necrozma and fighting against stall. We were 200 rounds in and he says he changed his team so that the infinite match would not happen again, and asked for a rematch. I had previously said the guy's team got destroyed by Tapu Lele, so I asked if I could change my team too, and he said yes. The team I used was the following:
I ended up 5-0ing him, but the team was just built around supporting Tapu Lele against Stall, so it didn't seen like a team I could use in the ladder. I wanted to build a team with the best match up against most teams I could, and I decided that (influenced by that match and stall's overpreparation against physical attackers) the best core to build around would be Unaware Clefable + Tapu Lele:
But Tapu Lele itself could get easily stalled by Regenerator teams, even without Multiscale, so the next mon had to be one with an offensive ability, and the best one seemed to be Adaptabiltity. So, I added Crawdaunt to the team. Now there were 3 open slots and the team had no clear direction. How could I complete it? I looked at my past teams, and decided to try and make this a "set-up stall" team, like the first one. For this, Slowbro-M's Shell Armor, Magic Guard and Prankster were essential, so the team ended up like this:
With this team I went from the 1400s to #6, around 1650 Elo (I've never played a match in the account since, and I have decayed a bit), and I don't think I lost a single match to stall. As weird as this team may seem (you can't see the sets, but it was Cosmic Power+Calm Mind Clefable and Acid Armor Reuniclus), it was the closest I got to a very reliable team that could win against both Offense and Stall.
Why am I posting this? To say that without Multiscale, breaking stall can be done even if you don't have your entire team built around it (one of the reasons I oppose a Regenerator ban). That it was possible, during that meta, to build Balance-ish teams, or teams that not every mon benefits from every ability, and to be successful. I am not certain about the future, I just know I really like this period of the meta.
These team colors are so nice, too.
Attachments
I don't think Mega Banette was not viable. Maybe against stall tho.
It basically defeats at least one mon with destiny bond, and it allows me to do destiny bond stuff with the rest of my team. I think it was usable.
Using someone else's version of a team i posted here before that person got pretty far on the ladder so I copied that person's team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-705746052 Elo Reached 1513
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-703914199
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-703434071 Vs dogknees (I lost tho)
Older Version:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-700408027 vs Groudon Speed
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699869054 Lost
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698909398 Lost
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698553706
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698536748 Delibirb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-705746052 Elo Reached 1513
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-703914199
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-703434071 Vs dogknees (I lost tho)
Older Version:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-700408027 vs Groudon Speed
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699869054 Lost
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698909398 Lost
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698553706
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698536748 Delibirb
This is a pretty good point, and reminds me of a team I tried to run a while back while building for SP Unity.I have been planning to make a post about a team that I really liked in the MGuard not banned + Multiscale banned meta, and this comentary makes it an opportune time.
Some people might have fought the following team, used during the Multiscale meta, it was built around this almighty Slowbro-M that can so easily sweep so many teams:
After Multiscale got banned, I started experimenting to find which mon could replace Dragonite. In a certain match, I was using Necrozma and fighting against stall. We were 200 rounds in and he says he changed his team so that the infinite match would not happen again, and asked for a rematch. I had previously said the guy's team got destroyed by Tapu Lele, so I asked if I could change my team too, and he said yes. The team I used was the following:
I ended up 5-0ing him, but the team was just built around supporting Tapu Lele against Stall, so it didn't seen like a team I could use in the ladder. I wanted to build a team with the best match up against most teams I could, and I decided that (influenced by that match and stall's overpreparation against physical attackers) the best core to build around would be Unaware Clefable + Tapu Lele:
But Tapu Lele itself could get easily stalled by Regenerator teams, even without Multiscale, so the next mon had to be one with an offensive ability, and the best one seemed to be Adaptabiltity. So, I added Crawdaunt to the team. Now there were 3 open slots and the team had no clear direction. How could I complete it? I looked at my past teams, and decided to try and make this a "set-up stall" team, like the first one. For this, Slowbro-M's Shell Armor, Magic Guard and Prankster were essential, so the team ended up like this:
With this team I went from the 1400s to #6, around 1650 Elo (I've never played a match in the account since, and I have decayed a bit), and I don't think I lost a single match to stall. As weird as this team may seem (you can't see the sets, but it was Cosmic Power+Calm Mind Clefable and Acid Armor Reuniclus), it was the closest I got to a very reliable team that could win against both Offense and Stall.
Why am I posting this? To say that without Multiscale, breaking stall can be done even if you don't have your entire team built around it (one of the reasons I oppose a Regenerator ban). That it was possible, during that meta, to build Balance-ish teams, or teams that not every mon benefits from every ability, and to be successful. I am not certain about the future, I just know I really like this period of the meta.
These team colors are so nice, too.
Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Counter
Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
- Superpower
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Beheeyem @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Block
- Psychic
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Counter
Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
- Superpower
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Beheeyem @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Block
- Psychic
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
Prankster Destiny Bond spam was and still is a very valid technique, but yeah, it loses one of the better Prankster donors, as Banette could fulfill both roles. RIP.
The council bans are finally here! In this round, we’ve decided to vote on 3 different things: Multiscale, Sturdy, and Regenerator!
Multiscale has been a hot topic ever since the metagame’s inception. It’s an incredibly drawback-free ability that can be stacked onto any kind of team. We at the council thought a Magic Guard ban would somewhat mitigate Multiscale’s centralizing effect, but we are evidently wrong. Teams are still taking advantage of Multiscale’s ability to halve all damage at 100% health and, combined with Regenerator, makes defensive teams extremely hard to break. It was a no brainer for us to want this toxic ability out of the metagame. And the result you wanted to hear:
Multiscale is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Sturdy was next on the chopping block. Sturdy teams essentially mean every Pokemon has 2 “lives” to do as they please, as they are almost always guaranteed to survive an attack, even at 100%. I’ve already discussed Sturdy and it’s effect on the metagame, and needless to say, Sturdy hs also proven to be an unwanted element in the Shared Power metagame. Because of this,
Sturdy has been BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Regenerator is the big thing here, and it was our toughest decision. Although it was admittedly written quite a while ago, while the metagame was in a different state, you can read about my opinion on stall’s infinite battle effect right here. A Regenerator ban would not completely solve these infinite battles, but it would certainly go a long way where every Pokemon does not get to switch over and over again and simply obtain their HP back. The truth is that Regenerator may not be inherently broken or uncompetitive, but it is undoubtedly unhealthy. I’m just gonna copy my centric point from that post here below:
Battles lasting upwards of hundreds of turns is not something that is unheard of; however, in Shared Power, this is amplified by the omnipresence of Regenerator on these types of teams, making games usually come down to who has the most added sum of PP. Stall vs stall is an absolutely disgusting matchup, and honestly, every time a matchup like this occurs the game should just be tied because nobody wants to play a 1,000 turn game. I am not using hyperbole. I will use the rest of this section to outline the definition of “unhealthy” in the tiering philosophy.
IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken, yet deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent
- These are elements that may not limit either team building or battling skill enough individually, but combine to cause an effect that is undesirable for the metagame.
Switching over and over again inhibits skillful play- usually battles like this do not reflect on the more skillful player winning over the lesser skilled player. As previously stated, battles involving this playstyle usually result in endless PP wars. It takes no skill to play or build this playstyle- and this is something that should be considered heading into the future of the metagame. Is this something we really want? We believe that the consensus answer is NO, but this raises a question. Will stall continue to be good? I hate to base my answers on speculation, but my own answer is YES. Stall still has access to a wide variety of defensive abilities including Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Unaware, Marvel Scale, among others. Despite this being true, this will never be a point worth making since we do not base bans on what playstyles will better or worsen, but rather to better the overall state of the entire metagame. A Regenerator ban benefits the overall state of the metagame by allowing it to become less centric on infinite battles, and making battles a lot more competitive by punishing multiple brainless switches in a row. The thread poll indicated that the majority of people want this banned, so I hope this pleases more people than it displeases. Without further ado, the big announcement:
Regenerator is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Moving on to a different topic of interest:
Tagging Kris and The Immortal to implement this as soon as they can! Also tagging them to please ban Mega Banette!
Multiscale has been a hot topic ever since the metagame’s inception. It’s an incredibly drawback-free ability that can be stacked onto any kind of team. We at the council thought a Magic Guard ban would somewhat mitigate Multiscale’s centralizing effect, but we are evidently wrong. Teams are still taking advantage of Multiscale’s ability to halve all damage at 100% health and, combined with Regenerator, makes defensive teams extremely hard to break. It was a no brainer for us to want this toxic ability out of the metagame. And the result you wanted to hear:
Multiscale is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Sturdy was next on the chopping block. Sturdy teams essentially mean every Pokemon has 2 “lives” to do as they please, as they are almost always guaranteed to survive an attack, even at 100%. I’ve already discussed Sturdy and it’s effect on the metagame, and needless to say, Sturdy hs also proven to be an unwanted element in the Shared Power metagame. Because of this,
Sturdy has been BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Regenerator is the big thing here, and it was our toughest decision. Although it was admittedly written quite a while ago, while the metagame was in a different state, you can read about my opinion on stall’s infinite battle effect right here. A Regenerator ban would not completely solve these infinite battles, but it would certainly go a long way where every Pokemon does not get to switch over and over again and simply obtain their HP back. The truth is that Regenerator may not be inherently broken or uncompetitive, but it is undoubtedly unhealthy. I’m just gonna copy my centric point from that post here below:
Battles lasting upwards of hundreds of turns is not something that is unheard of; however, in Shared Power, this is amplified by the omnipresence of Regenerator on these types of teams, making games usually come down to who has the most added sum of PP. Stall vs stall is an absolutely disgusting matchup, and honestly, every time a matchup like this occurs the game should just be tied because nobody wants to play a 1,000 turn game. I am not using hyperbole. I will use the rest of this section to outline the definition of “unhealthy” in the tiering philosophy.
IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken, yet deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent
- These are elements that may not limit either team building or battling skill enough individually, but combine to cause an effect that is undesirable for the metagame.
Switching over and over again inhibits skillful play- usually battles like this do not reflect on the more skillful player winning over the lesser skilled player. As previously stated, battles involving this playstyle usually result in endless PP wars. It takes no skill to play or build this playstyle- and this is something that should be considered heading into the future of the metagame. Is this something we really want? We believe that the consensus answer is NO, but this raises a question. Will stall continue to be good? I hate to base my answers on speculation, but my own answer is YES. Stall still has access to a wide variety of defensive abilities including Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Unaware, Marvel Scale, among others. Despite this being true, this will never be a point worth making since we do not base bans on what playstyles will better or worsen, but rather to better the overall state of the entire metagame. A Regenerator ban benefits the overall state of the metagame by allowing it to become less centric on infinite battles, and making battles a lot more competitive by punishing multiple brainless switches in a row. The thread poll indicated that the majority of people want this banned, so I hope this pleases more people than it displeases. Without further ado, the big announcement:
Regenerator is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Moving on to a different topic of interest:
I hear you all, but this is a debate for the future. Before we make any rash decisions like unbanning Magic Guard, let’s see how the metagame fares in this metagame first. It’s unwise to base bans on speculation, and if Magic Guard seems like it wouldn’t be centralzed in the future, then we WILL suspect test it. I have a few unban ideas myself, but these can’t be brought up just yet.
Tagging Kris and The Immortal to implement this as soon as they can! Also tagging them to please ban Mega Banette!
Hey, I would like some feedback on this team that I am currently using.
Shuckle is for Sticky Web + Rocks.
Cofagrigus is to punish Guts/Toxic Boost/any ability that gets affected by status.
Victini is a Stored Power Sweeper to avoid Unaware.
Manectric is an optional Intimidate user, able to avoid Contrary and Defiant.
Latios-M is a Special Sweeper.
Kommo-o is the definition of setup, having two moves to setup with.
Edits:
Replaced Psychic with Stored Power
Replaced Lando-T with Manectric-M
Naive Latios changed to Timid Latios
Brave Kommo-o changed to Adamant Kommo-o
Replaced Latiosite with Focus Sash
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Rock Tomb
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hex
- Knock Off
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
Victini @ Assault Vest
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- V-create
- Stored Power
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Latios @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Psychic
Kommo-o @ Assault Vest
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Close Combat
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Rock Tomb
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hex
- Knock Off
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
Victini @ Assault Vest
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- V-create
- Stored Power
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Latios @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Psychic
Kommo-o @ Assault Vest
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Close Combat
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
Shuckle is for Sticky Web + Rocks.
Cofagrigus is to punish Guts/Toxic Boost/any ability that gets affected by status.
Victini is a Stored Power Sweeper to avoid Unaware.
Manectric is an optional Intimidate user, able to avoid Contrary and Defiant.
Latios-M is a Special Sweeper.
Kommo-o is the definition of setup, having two moves to setup with.
Edits:
Replaced Psychic with Stored Power
Replaced Lando-T with Manectric-M
Naive Latios changed to Timid Latios
Brave Kommo-o changed to Adamant Kommo-o
Replaced Latiosite with Focus Sash
Last edited:
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Victini is a mystery, I don't really know what to do with him.
Why not give it stored power? Also, why do you have naive latios and brave kommo-o over timid/adamant?
Also, Intimidate can backfire unless you're using one of the megas that gain or lose it by going mega, and can switch it off against contrary/defiant teams
First of all building for stall took lots of skill, and playing also did when you had to make doubles. I would have preferred for the meta to settle for once instead of going on a BANwagon (get it?) Honestly regenerator had no reason to be banned, but I dont really care anymore. Stall v stall is still endless but its a terrible playstyle now along with balance. HO will dominate, and the meta will just fall apart from here and focus sash will be the exact same as sturdy.The council bans are finally here! In this round, we’ve decided to vote on 3 different things: Multiscale, Sturdy, and Regenerator!
Multiscale has been a hot topic ever since the metagame’s inception. It’s an incredibly drawback-free ability that can be stacked onto any kind of team. We at the council thought a Magic Guard ban would somewhat mitigate Multiscale’s centralizing effect, but we are evidently wrong. Teams are still taking advantage of Multiscale’s ability to halve all damage at 100% health and, combined with Regenerator, makes defensive teams extremely hard to break. It was a no brainer for us to want this toxic ability out of the metagame. And the result you wanted to hear:
Multiscale is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Sturdy was next on the chopping block. Sturdy teams essentially mean every Pokemon has 2 “lives” to do as they please, as they are almost always guaranteed to survive an attack, even at 100%. I’ve already discussed Sturdy and it’s effect on the metagame, and needless to say, Sturdy hs also proven to be an unwanted element in the Shared Power metagame. Because of this,
Sturdy has been BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Regenerator is the big thing here, and it was our toughest decision. Although it was admittedly written quite a while ago, while the metagame was in a different state, you can read about my opinion on stall’s infinite battle effect right here. A Regenerator ban would not completely solve these infinite battles, but it would certainly go a long way where every Pokemon does not get to switch over and over again and simply obtain their HP back. The truth is that Regenerator may not be inherently broken or uncompetitive, but it is undoubtedly unhealthy. I’m just gonna copy my centric point from that post here below:
Battles lasting upwards of hundreds of turns is not something that is unheard of; however, in Shared Power, this is amplified by the omnipresence of Regenerator on these types of teams, making games usually come down to who has the most added sum of PP. Stall vs stall is an absolutely disgusting matchup, and honestly, every time a matchup like this occurs the game should just be tied because nobody wants to play a 1,000 turn game. I am not using hyperbole. I will use the rest of this section to outline the definition of “unhealthy” in the tiering philosophy.
IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken, yet deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent
- These are elements that may not limit either team building or battling skill enough individually, but combine to cause an effect that is undesirable for the metagame.
Switching over and over again inhibits skillful play- usually battles like this do not reflect on the more skillful player winning over the lesser skilled player. As previously stated, battles involving this playstyle usually result in endless PP wars. It takes no skill to play or build this playstyle- and this is something that should be considered heading into the future of the metagame. Is this something we really want? We believe that the consensus answer is NO, but this raises a question. Will stall continue to be good? I hate to base my answers on speculation, but my own answer is YES. Stall still has access to a wide variety of defensive abilities including Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Unaware, Marvel Scale, among others. Despite this being true, this will never be a point worth making since we do not base bans on what playstyles will better or worsen, but rather to better the overall state of the entire metagame. A Regenerator ban benefits the overall state of the metagame by allowing it to become less centric on infinite battles, and making battles a lot more competitive by punishing multiple brainless switches in a row. The thread poll indicated that the majority of people want this banned, so I hope this pleases more people than it displeases. Without further ado, the big announcement:
Regenerator is now BANNED from sharing in Shared Power.
Moving on to a different topic of interest:
I hear you all, but this is a debate for the future. Before we make any rash decisions like unbanning Magic Guard, let’s see how the metagame fares in this metagame first. It’s unwise to base bans on speculation, and if Magic Guard seems like it wouldn’t be centralzed in the future, then we WILL suspect test it. I have a few unban ideas myself, but these can’t be brought up just yet.
Tagging Kris and The Immortal to implement this as soon as they can! Also tagging them to please ban Mega Banette!
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