Second Chance - Regidrago Suspect

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Ok so its been a long time since i made a post like this so feel free to correct me if im wrong anywhere.I've read through a few ban posts in this thread, the argument is that it is too restrictive the builder and that's you need a fairy or steel to check it. Linearity should not be a problem imo, that's a good thing. There are a few sets that can beat some steels like band with Metagross since nobody runs wp anymore:( and focus energy to beat Corviknight lmao. Band is usable but idk so much about focus energy, but again like mentality said thay have opportunity costs like Both of them losing to mons like raging bolt (unless ur fast but imo band should run bulk for volcarona), landot, Band Hoodra, Dragapult, Garchomp and more because it is not running haban.



2nd thing I'd like to point out is that Steels and Fairies are gonna be spammed if drago goes or not. They are still really good types in the tier even if there is no drago and for good reason. I think we should all stop pretending like we'll stop spamming fairies and steels if drago goes lol. I am pretty sure the 6v6 tiering system(which 1v1 follows) does not tier based on building creativity. I'm not going against creativity but similar to the mons that are bad because Regidrago, there are a few mons that have a niche for beating drago and the top tiers, like band ttar (which doesn't beat crown F).



Like mentality said there are non fairy or steel pokemon like Tyranitar, Chansey, Espathra Glastrier,Gyarados and more that barely see tour usage. There are also underrated Pokemon that are fairy or steel type that people don't use such as tinkaton, empoleon,magnezone who beat regidrago. If people want so much builder creativity, then why do they choose Regidrago beaters like Metagross,Ival and Corviknight over the mons I just listed. I understand there are some hitlists ival can solve and tink can't, vise versa,but we should not talk so much about builder creativity and wantedly choose top tier Fairies over mons like Espathra as our Regirago answers on our team.



In the end I think that we should be voting DNB on Regidrago as it does not
warp the teambuilder and serves as one of the main answers to Pokemon like Hoopa-U.
 
Ok so its been a long time since i made a post like this so feel free to correct me if im wrong anywhere.
That's what I'm here for :)


Okay so point 1:
I've read through a few ban posts in this thread, the argument is that it is too restrictive the builder and that's you need a fairy or steel to check it. Linearity should not be a problem imo, that's a good thing. There are a few sets that can beat some steels like band with Metagross since nobody runs wp anymore:( and focus energy to beat Corviknight lmao. Band is usable but idk so much about focus energy, but again like mentality said thay have opportunity costs like Both of them losing to mons like raging bolt (unless ur fast but imo band should run bulk for volcarona), landot, Band Hoodra, Dragapult, Garchomp and more because it is not running haban.
I'm sorry, are you saying ITS GOOD to have the tier be restrictive? Maybe I'm not exactly getting this part but it sounds to me like you believe the tier having less diversity is... good. Huh. Opportunity cost aside, I do not feel like this is true for any tier. There really shouldn't be a barrier to entry for nearly everything that doesn't beat at least 1 Drago set. Sounds pretty extreme man.

Point 2:
2nd thing I'd like to point out is that Steels and Fairies are gonna be spammed if drago goes or not. They are still really good types in the tier even if there is no drago and for good reason. I think we should all stop pretending like we'll stop spamming fairies and steels if drago goes lol. I am pretty sure the 6v6 tiering system(which 1v1 follows) does not tier based on building creativity. I'm not going against creativity but similar to the mons that are bad because Regidrago, there are a few mons that have a niche for beating drago and the top tiers, like band ttar (which doesn't beat crown F).
This entire thing feels partially true but I still stand against it. Fairy and Steel types are ridiculous in this gen I agree, but keeping Drago does what but make the tier more linear? Even if tiering doesn't go on building creativity, it'd be unfun to have Groudon rule everything and completely change the meta around it (or Scream Tail, Snorlax, Cinderace, etc etc banned mon). Even still, the mons that have a niche for beating Drago are heavily unfavored compared to the many things with decreased viability by extension of Drago existing, and a lot of the top tiers beating Drago (and the mons that beat Drago).

Point 3:
Like mentality said there are non fairy or steel pokemon like Tyranitar, Chansey, Espathra Glastrier,Gyarados and more that barely see tour usage. There are also underrated Pokemon that are fairy or steel type that people don't use such as tinkaton, empoleon,magnezone who beat regidrago. If people want so much builder creativity, then why do they choose Regidrago beaters like Metagross,Ival and Corviknight over the mons I just listed. I understand there are some hitlists ival can solve and tink can't, vise versa,but we should not talk so much about builder creativity and wantedly choose top tier Fairies over mons like Espathra as our Regirago answers on our team.
This is true. At the end of the day, I think it comes down to being unable to see past the glass half empty rather than full. A mon might beat Regidrago, but what's its niche outside of that? Like I can't justify running Alcremie at all just because "it beats like every encore disable user lol". That's just not valid. Even if something like Encore + Disable or like Dusclops/Galarian Corsola (rip my goat) that fry choice mons... you can't deny that the concept of anti-[insert mon/playstyle] just isn't it. Like I can look at Granbull (check the :granbull: in my PFP) and figure out its niche of beating a majority of Dragons and Fairies and Darks, which sounds "simple" being a Fairy type, but most of these types have a secondary typing like Raging Bolt that would annihilate NORMAL attempts to beat them.

Final Point (4):

In the end I think that we should be voting DNB on Regidrago as it does not
warp the teambuilder and serves as one of the main answers to Pokemon like Hoopa-U.
But should we? Do we really favor diversity here, or metagame toxicity?
Well,
I personally see this as a coin. If Heads is Ban, and Tails is No Ban, I'm on the Heads side. I could flip it and still have a 49% chance of getting Tails, meaning that at the end of the day, I just can't change people's opinions. What does this analogy mean? It means that even though I'm highly favoring one side, I still need to consider the 51/49 odds.

But also past this, I believe that this would be a meta shift that we need to get used to. Hear me out on this one recti:
- Regidrago exists
- Meta is mostly Fairy and Steel type
- Regidrago is like the next best thing afterwards (and Hoopa-Unbound)
- Meta beats Drago, and Drago beats Hoopa, so because Drago isn't used, Hoopa is used more. But Drago steps in to beat it, and they alter between usage
- THEN, get this, meta adapts to Fairy and Steel. Easier said than done I know I know I've heard this story a bajillion times, but like think about it. If the meta adapts to Fairy and Steel, then the meta shifts, and Regidrago shifts with it. Less Fairy and Steels, more Drago. More Drago? More Fairy and Steel types.

This isn't a really sound idea, but I feel like if Drago doesn't get banned, the meta is just going to have to adjust to it AND the onslaught of Fairy and Steel types. Imo they need to be checked. You'd think Fire type, but Fire isn't good vs Prim, and also doesn't really do well against most things in practice sadly. I just feel like the tier would improve without Drago's "line of viability". You could argue the same for other mons, but Drago specifically has been on the radar since its inception.
 

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got it
it is great poke for me but not broken buut i feel like the metagame would be better without it because most of the time you are forced to use a fairy or a steel on your team to not loose against regidrago and i just dont really like this poke in general
 

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Average experience getting reqs:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-2317883106-aepqdq9u21gk37b81plj1ov8m1b6foqpw
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen91v1-2317881855-7s5b9l2nfm64tqbw351p9p3yq73m2nypw

No thanks.

EDIT: I could have sworn I saved the replay for the other battle. Anyway it was Sylveon (again) vs Garchomp, got Iron-Head-flinched then missed the Hyper Beam. Typical.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
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Let's not pretend that setguessing is bad. Every 1v1 tier has it because beating every pokemon with 3 pokemon is impossible without setguessing and you can still get cteamed. Looking at other 1v1 tiers, its a very common theme to setguess top pokemon because they have multiple good sets that you can't always afford to beat with one slot. Furthermore, running only one counter to a pokemon, especially a top tier like drago, isn't going to give you a good matchup into that pokemon. Usually, you need 2 or even 3 pokemon (or a lure) that matchup well to punish someone for overusing any one pokemon. Don't get it twisted though, fairy and steel types work well together, and form a strong core with or without drago around. However, it seems players are not willing to take the setguess against drago, so they lean towards this core more than they should.

So are we "forced" into running fairies just because it removes a setguess against drago? I dont think so.
Every pokemon B+ rank and above on my VR beats at least one drago set with 0 opportunity cost, except for Hoopa, Shifu-Rapid, Zapdos, and about 60% of them beat a majority of dragos sets (again 0 opportunity cost).
I have built many teams that have no concrete drago answer (setguess), and I have also built teams with fairy/registeel/crown/corv/shaymin/slaking as the drago answer. On average, the teams with a drago hard counter do better into drago because there is often another drago check on the teams. This is to be expected as every team has different strong and weak matchups. This is more exaggerated with top tier pokemon because the number of hard counters is smaller. Most importantly, I have found no restrictions in the diversity of viable pokemon due to Regidrago in my experience building.

I do not support banning pokemon because they are "annoying" or "add nothing to the tier" (what does this mean?). Tarountula is also annoying and adds nothing to the tier.
 
I do not support banning pokemon because they are "annoying" or "add nothing to the tier" (what does this mean?). Tarountula is also annoying and adds nothing to the tier.
When I say "adding nothing to the tier" it's more like "negatively contributing to the tier" because all drago does is hamper creative teambuilding, and as you say yourself people don't experiment with other mons. (why run cool stuff if the same boring stuff work)

Like honestly, I don't think banning any other mon would motivate people to innovate as much as removing drago, people have been running the same stuff for over a year, and I doubt sitting here doing nothing will motivate people to escape the endless 50-50 loop.
 
When I say "adding nothing to the tier" it's more like "negatively contributing to the tier" because all drago does is hamper creative teambuilding, and as you say yourself people don't experiment with other mons. (why run cool stuff if the same boring stuff work)

Like honestly, I don't think banning any other mon would motivate people to innovate as much as removing drago, people have been running the same stuff for over a year, and I doubt sitting here doing nothing will motivate people to escape the endless 50-50 loop.
Since when did banning pokemon become a tool for motivating players? If players don't want to innovate, they are throwing away one of the most powerful weapons in their arsenal. I won champs because I made new sets and used a wide variety of pokemon. There is inherently a huge competitive advantage to creativity, especially in 1v1. Obviously its not easy to do, and many players are content with taking the easy route of spamming top tiers and compendium sets, but thats not an issue with the metagame.
 
Just got my reqs here are my thoughts: I understand why people dislike Regidrago, it forces people to run either a Fairy-type, Maranga Berry, Corviknight, Scarf Unnerve Haxorus, and even some more niche counters like AV Glastrier and Articuno for fool proof answers.


That being said, I don’t find Drago unhealthy or overwhelming in team building. Yes, you are required one of the aforementioned Pokemon to have a fool-proof answer, but it’s not like any of these Pokemon are hard to fit on team. Sylveon, Primarina, and Iron Valliant are all some of the best Pokemon in the meta and do just more than beat Drago. There’s also other options like Azumarill, Fezandipiti, and Tinkaton for Fairy types.

And lastly, because of the small team size and nature of 1v1, I think it is a good thing that there is a Pokémon that can blanket check a lot of things. It allows you to choose team members to compliment those matchups that Drago can’t, permitting you to take on a wider variety of threats in the meta. Banning Drago would make it much harder to cover the whole meta because few Pokemon can reach blanket checking Drago is capable of.
 
Thanks to everyone for participating in discussion and trying to gain voting rights, those who qualified can now vote on their preferred option between Ban and Do Not Ban. Voting will be up for 72 hours, which means the deadline is
<t:1742119140:F>


As a reminder, regidrago needs a 60% majority vote to get banned, which equates to 17 ban votes assuming everyone votes. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, Regidrago will remain unbanned for the remainder of 1v1 Global Cup and 1v1 Open. To vote, visit the Suspect Page. If you have any questions or issues you can reach out to me
 
Voting has concluded
Not everyone has voted yet, but even if the remainder of the voters votes Do Not Ban, the 17 necessary votes to ban Regidrago have been reached.
  • Regidrago - Ban (17/26 = 65.38%)
  • Regidrago - Do Not Ban (9/26 = 34.62%)
  • Votes remaining: 1
  • Min ban%: 17/27 (62.96%)
Voting will remain open until the deadline, but Regidrago is now banned from 1v1. It will remain legal for the remainder of 1v1 Global Cup and 1v1 Open.
 
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