So you know how the Pokémon have “dex numbers” next to them in the graphs? I don’t think those are accurate. Not to the national dex anyway. Counting Suicune and Verizion in the dex when they don’t exist yet doesn’t really make sense. So I think the Pokémon are actually later in the dex, and these are either asset numbers or are some kind of index order.
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SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
National dex has kinda got retconned in game anyway. The only actual natdex is the Home one.
Yeah, it’s probably just an in game inconsistency. We can assume it goes to 1008 based on dex numbers anyway.
I would approach this one with extreme caution. This is one of those prospective nerfs people think might happen every generation that someone rumor mills into being a possible change. It's stuck around since at least like gen 7 where the rumor also appeared. It's also just in general hard to gauge the modifier without documented testing or a datamine with the info.
Given we won't be able to see the NatDex numbers in game and Khu claimed that Paradox Virizion and Suicune were originally going to be in the base game but Game Freak moved them to be DLC, it makes sense that they just left the empty spots, no one's gonna see them after all.
Paradox Salamence has such a brilliant design, I genuinely feel a bit.. on-edge looking at it, the Scarlet designs really are so immense. I do enjoy the Violet ones too but I can fully see why some people feel a bit.. miffed at them. Also I would die and go to war for Clodsire, he is just a big friendshaped boy
i joined smogon after a decade of lurking just to say the above x
i joined smogon after a decade of lurking just to say the above x
In all honesty, I can't even justify why large chunks of Ubers are there anymore.
Would Palkia really break the meta of Tapu Fini, Dragapult, and Glowking?
Yes, the thing has coverage out the ass to fuck with it's counters and in a lower power level enviroment like OU it can use mixed or physical sets to success in addition to all the shit it does already lmao. Crazy that people still don't appreciate the level of difference between lower level Ubers and OU mons.
Lmao, this Gens looking good, I might actually go back to showdown for once. My new team is Cat3, Galladevoir, EdgyMance, Volcabot, Delibot and Either Magneboots or the Pseudo depending of how it looks.
I mean even the shittiest Ubers could wreck OU, with a few exceptions, case by case really.
Yes. Glowking gets trolled by aqua tail, fini has no longevity (and dies to thunder), and Pult is only an offensive check. That is just all out attack sets too. Many more sets would exist.
The main reason for which "bad ubers don't drop" is that in a vacuum they do indeed break the shit of OU.
Case in point, Zamazenta was tested and it did indeed end up breaking the shit out of OU due to sheer BST advantage.
What I meant is "drop *a bunch* of Ubers at same time", ofc that'd end up completely changing the meta altoghether and it's unlikely to happen, but I wouldn't exclude certain current "bad ubers" like (assuming they return eventually) Spectrier or Pheromosa, etc or even Dracovish and G-darm actually being dropped at some point.
After all, for example Blaziken (even the base form) has been banished to Ubers for several years, then in SwSh not only it was fine in OU but even dropped to UU because powercreep is a serious thing. Melmetal was also thrown into Ubers at start then dropped down.
Wow, so many news...
About leaked starters stats/abilities
Meowscarada is obviously the OP one and well... Yet another Protean starter, and this time is even faster than the former two (outspeeds greninja by 1 point). Let's see if it's movepool makes it for this broken ability. At last they didn't give it a clone to call it "unique" like Libero.
Skeledirge gets even more interesting. 104/100/75 bulk with Unaware and Fire/Ghost. It can potentially wall/check so many threats that are beeing confirmed, but will depends if it has reliable recovery and good moveset.
Poor Ququaval is... Meh. Can't see big uses for it. Maybe if it's signature is OP... But it's probably not. Like someone said, a worse Gyarados.
Now about the big paradoxes...
They all look amazing and makes me want to buy both versions of the game. Absolute cool desings and concepts. This is way better than mega-evolution. I can't even decide which one is my favourite.
About leaked starters stats/abilities
Meowscarada is obviously the OP one and well... Yet another Protean starter, and this time is even faster than the former two (outspeeds greninja by 1 point). Let's see if it's movepool makes it for this broken ability. At last they didn't give it a clone to call it "unique" like Libero.
Skeledirge gets even more interesting. 104/100/75 bulk with Unaware and Fire/Ghost. It can potentially wall/check so many threats that are beeing confirmed, but will depends if it has reliable recovery and good moveset.
Poor Ququaval is... Meh. Can't see big uses for it. Maybe if it's signature is OP... But it's probably not. Like someone said, a worse Gyarados.
Now about the big paradoxes...
They all look amazing and makes me want to buy both versions of the game. Absolute cool desings and concepts. This is way better than mega-evolution. I can't even decide which one is my favourite.
If that's mean to be an in-game team, be aware that "EdgyMence" and "Magneboots" are Scarlet exclusive and "Galladevoir", "Delibot", and "Volcabot" are Violet exclusives.
Let's not forget Terastal in the mix for all this aswell. Even if we don't see loads of Paradox mons getting banned, we could very well see a critical mass of Pokemon that are right on the edge of being broken. The main thing I see stopping a "new meta balance" being established by all these legendaries is that they are all quite offensively inclined. It would be a meta where stall would just cease to exist, unless Protosynthesis and Quark Engine have some sort of useful defensive effect.
This gen, more than most, is one where we won't easily be able to judge by viability in Ubers, since the box legends will act as much stronger setters for the terrain effects than anything available in OU even if the abilities don't specifically require the legendaries' field effects; they're strong enough that realistically you are probably bringing them regardless.
Speaking of ubers: noteworthy that the two strongest Paradox mons both have a favourable type matchup against the box legends.
This gen, more than most, is one where we won't easily be able to judge by viability in Ubers, since the box legends will act as much stronger setters for the terrain effects than anything available in OU even if the abilities don't specifically require the legendaries' field effects; they're strong enough that realistically you are probably bringing them regardless.
Speaking of ubers: noteworthy that the two strongest Paradox mons both have a favourable type matchup against the box legends.
Kinda getting more skeptical of the leaked statlines the longer we've gone without anything else leaking. 
Edit: You would think the stats would have all come in one fell swoop, followed shortly by movesets, abilities, etc.
Edit: You would think the stats would have all come in one fell swoop, followed shortly by movesets, abilities, etc.
Now that you said, i'm curious to see how it works with Protean.
If i Tera-Electric Meowscarada and it uses an Electric move, will it be super-stab due to Protean?
There's one thing that's somewhat bothering me, and that I am assuming that all of the Paradox mons are going to be one-of deals. This combined with box leges will mean that... as competitive player you basically will be forced to have both versions or access to someone willing to make a new save specifically to trade you the missing ones.
Don't like. I'm fine with version exclusive legendaries but not THAT MANY at same time.
Ofc this isn't a issue if the paradox pokemon aren't one-of and are more like ultrabeasts in USUM and/or can be bred.
While most of this depends on if Terastal actually stays in smogon (ofc irrelevant point as far as VGC goes), one thing that makes me wonder about the viability of the Paradoxes is actually their abilities.
Some of the Paradox pokemon owe a lot of their viability to their ability, es Tyranitar was mostly carried by sheer BST and Sand Stream patching its spdef.
If these abilities are basically "sand rush on steroids" on their dedicated field effect, this means that we're looking at essentially abilityless pokemon as far as OU / VGC goes, who have to rely on just BST/Type/moveset.
The interaction with Protean and generic type-changing moves is one of the things that people are curious about. Works both ways too, if i Teralyze to X and then get hit by Soak, do i keep the teralyze bonuses ?
Who looked Bisharp's killer stats and thought "ok, he needs an evolution"???
I passed by the image, only to look and read this is the paradox forme. Seriously??? Freakin Pokestar Tyranitars look more creative than this!
DAAAAAAMN! This looks feral.
Why does its wings look like Doritos lol. Past Volc looks better
Um, witch-er Misdreavus?
Oh thats a better look. Man, Violet's all generic ass robots huh. Like, if the Volcarona is part poison, why not give it a design that reflects this better. Like having decayed wings or dripping acid.
Initial impressions of the paradoxes just going off their stats and typing:
-Great Tusk looks kinda mid. Good physical stats and HP but everything else seems bad. Ground/Fighting is a pretty redundant typing offensively and doesn't really have much going for it defensively. 6 weaknesses to somewhat common attacking types (Grass, Ice, Water, Flying, Fairy, Psychic) means that it's probably best off using a Scarf. If it has a broad enough movepool, I could see it being a decent physical wallbreaker or setup sweeper with Rock Polish.
-Brute Bonnet looks bad. Grass/Dark is an atrocious defensive type and its stats indicate a slow bulky tank. Probably better in VGC where the Dark type adds utility due to being immune to Prankster.
-Sandy Shocks looks like it has potential. Ground/Electric is a pretty decent typing offensively and isn't too compromised defensively in the same way Ground/Fighting and Grass/Dark are. Probably doesn't have The Juice (tm) to be an OU meta staple, but if it has a good enough movepool I could see sets like Scarf be used on some teams.
-Scream Tail looks like it was made for VGC. Very fast and bulky with a workable defensive type that doesn't have too many common weaknesses. Likely not going to be good in singles but I can see it becoming a staple in VGC if it has a good enough support movepool, which base Jigglypuff definitely has in spades.
-Flutter Mane looks like it'll be a menace. Excellent offensive typing and the stats to take advantage of it. Even if it only has Ghost/Fairy STAB it'll probably be very good offensively. I can see wallbreaker sets with LO/Specs and Scarf sets being very popular.
-Slither Wing looks underwhelming. Good Attack and decent bulk, but not much else. Bug/Fighting is an interesting defensive type as we see with Buzzwole, but it worked on Buzzwole because it had excellent physical bulk to take neutral hits quite well, which Slither Wing does not have. Probably not gonna be very good.
-Roaring Moon looks menacing. Excellent stats across the board for a physical attacker and pretty good bulk, too. Dragon/Dark is a pretty vulnerable defensive type, so it might have a harder time finding opportunities to switch in/set up than the bulk would suggest, but I think it'll be potent.
-Iron Treads looks potent. Excellent typing and well-balanced stats means that a lot of sets could probably work well on it. Not really a whole lot to say here as I'd need to take a look at the movepool to see what it'd really excel at. Band looks like it'd work pretty well on it at first glance.
-Iron Moth looks spooky. Sky high special attack and decent speed means that if it gets Quiver Dance, it'll probably be the premier QD user. Again, how well it works would depend on its movepool, but it looks like it has The Juice to make at least a Specs or Scarf set work.
-Iron Hands is interesting. Unique typing that provides a lot of offensive utility and lots of bulk and power. Low speed hurts it because of common weaknesses to Fairy and Ground, but it looks like it'll be a potent wallbreaker with a Choice Band. Probably not gonna be a staple but it'll be interesting to see. Looks like it'll be a big threat in VGC on Trick Room builds.
-Iron Jugulis is... an enigma. I can't make heads or tails of it. Has a pretty well-rounded stat distribution in the vein of Sandy Shocks and the Ghost resist is definitely valuable, but this one in particular is pretty dependent on movepool. The STABs alone aren't anything to write home about and the stats aren't particularly great in any one area. If it gets Defog+Roost, I can see it being used as a sort of Mandibuzz substitute that isn't a complete momentum sink.
-Iron Thorns looks... underwhelming. The typing isn't particularly good defensively and it's pretty slow and bulky. Like Iron Jugulis, I'll have to see the movepool before I pass judgement on this one.
-Iron Bundle looks really good. Excellent offensive typing and the stats to back it up. Even if it just has STABs offensively, I can see it being a pretty good Specs/Scarf user.
-Iron Valiant looks like it'll be pretty tricky to deal with defensively. Really good offensive STAB and the attacking stats to back it up. My first instinct is that it'll use Scarf sets to be a good revenge killer, but if it has a good offensive movepool I can see Life Orb/Specs/Band sets giving defensive teams a headache.
I'm most excited for Flutter Mane, Roaring Moon, Iron Treads, Iron Bundle, and Iron Valiant.
-Great Tusk looks kinda mid. Good physical stats and HP but everything else seems bad. Ground/Fighting is a pretty redundant typing offensively and doesn't really have much going for it defensively. 6 weaknesses to somewhat common attacking types (Grass, Ice, Water, Flying, Fairy, Psychic) means that it's probably best off using a Scarf. If it has a broad enough movepool, I could see it being a decent physical wallbreaker or setup sweeper with Rock Polish.
-Brute Bonnet looks bad. Grass/Dark is an atrocious defensive type and its stats indicate a slow bulky tank. Probably better in VGC where the Dark type adds utility due to being immune to Prankster.
-Sandy Shocks looks like it has potential. Ground/Electric is a pretty decent typing offensively and isn't too compromised defensively in the same way Ground/Fighting and Grass/Dark are. Probably doesn't have The Juice (tm) to be an OU meta staple, but if it has a good enough movepool I could see sets like Scarf be used on some teams.
-Scream Tail looks like it was made for VGC. Very fast and bulky with a workable defensive type that doesn't have too many common weaknesses. Likely not going to be good in singles but I can see it becoming a staple in VGC if it has a good enough support movepool, which base Jigglypuff definitely has in spades.
-Flutter Mane looks like it'll be a menace. Excellent offensive typing and the stats to take advantage of it. Even if it only has Ghost/Fairy STAB it'll probably be very good offensively. I can see wallbreaker sets with LO/Specs and Scarf sets being very popular.
-Slither Wing looks underwhelming. Good Attack and decent bulk, but not much else. Bug/Fighting is an interesting defensive type as we see with Buzzwole, but it worked on Buzzwole because it had excellent physical bulk to take neutral hits quite well, which Slither Wing does not have. Probably not gonna be very good.
-Roaring Moon looks menacing. Excellent stats across the board for a physical attacker and pretty good bulk, too. Dragon/Dark is a pretty vulnerable defensive type, so it might have a harder time finding opportunities to switch in/set up than the bulk would suggest, but I think it'll be potent.
-Iron Treads looks potent. Excellent typing and well-balanced stats means that a lot of sets could probably work well on it. Not really a whole lot to say here as I'd need to take a look at the movepool to see what it'd really excel at. Band looks like it'd work pretty well on it at first glance.
-Iron Moth looks spooky. Sky high special attack and decent speed means that if it gets Quiver Dance, it'll probably be the premier QD user. Again, how well it works would depend on its movepool, but it looks like it has The Juice to make at least a Specs or Scarf set work.
-Iron Hands is interesting. Unique typing that provides a lot of offensive utility and lots of bulk and power. Low speed hurts it because of common weaknesses to Fairy and Ground, but it looks like it'll be a potent wallbreaker with a Choice Band. Probably not gonna be a staple but it'll be interesting to see. Looks like it'll be a big threat in VGC on Trick Room builds.
-Iron Jugulis is... an enigma. I can't make heads or tails of it. Has a pretty well-rounded stat distribution in the vein of Sandy Shocks and the Ghost resist is definitely valuable, but this one in particular is pretty dependent on movepool. The STABs alone aren't anything to write home about and the stats aren't particularly great in any one area. If it gets Defog+Roost, I can see it being used as a sort of Mandibuzz substitute that isn't a complete momentum sink.
-Iron Thorns looks... underwhelming. The typing isn't particularly good defensively and it's pretty slow and bulky. Like Iron Jugulis, I'll have to see the movepool before I pass judgement on this one.
-Iron Bundle looks really good. Excellent offensive typing and the stats to back it up. Even if it just has STABs offensively, I can see it being a pretty good Specs/Scarf user.
-Iron Valiant looks like it'll be pretty tricky to deal with defensively. Really good offensive STAB and the attacking stats to back it up. My first instinct is that it'll use Scarf sets to be a good revenge killer, but if it has a good offensive movepool I can see Life Orb/Specs/Band sets giving defensive teams a headache.
I'm most excited for Flutter Mane, Roaring Moon, Iron Treads, Iron Bundle, and Iron Valiant.
Kinda getting more skeptical of the leaked statlines the longer we've gone without anything else leaking.
Edit: You would think the stats would have all come in one fell swoop, followed shortly by movesets, abilities, etc.
Eh it’s probably cause these kind of leakers have some sort of weird power trip when it comes to giving information. last night they gave us the starter data and literally said “that’s it for tonight” as if it takes so much effort to just to upload the document which they already have
although one thing I will say that makes me side eye the spreadsheets is that the images/icons used for the typings are from SWSH when we know that SV will use the updated icons from Legends/BDSP.. but I'm choosing to overlook that for Bigglyruff defensive speedster
The leaks for this gen have basically all been about the leakers in question masturbating over their ability to keep everyone in suspense by taking as long as possible and being cryptic assholes, so it doesn't particularly surprise me.Kinda getting more skeptical of the leaked statlines the longer we've gone without anything else leaking.
Edit: You would think the stats would have all come in one fell swoop, followed shortly by movesets, abilities, etc.
Yup. Scarlet won. At least Scarlet has something more creative than just old Pokemon as robots.
I was actually really hoping to get Violet when the games released... that's thrown out the window now :(