Well I guess my post is now a request for testing then because that feels off and I definitely don't trust a Bulbapedia table sight-unseen lol
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Pollen Puff is still blocked by Bulletproof if it’s the actual attack part of the move targeting a foe. FWIW I can’t test if there’s any sort of exception for targeting your partner like self targeted Psychic Terrain priority.
Hi. 3d helpfully contributed some ideas for testing in a message to me, which is always appreciated. Here were the results:
- Mycelium Might allows forcing out a Guard Dog user with Roar.
- Steel Roller's Terrain clear is also unaffected by the user's Sheer Force and the opponent's Covert Cloak.
Bulletproof blocks both an opponent's Pollen Puff and a partner's Pollen Puff.
Hi. Minor results ordered roughly from most to least interesting again. Some have probably already been reported.
Edit 2:
Regarding the Confusion tests, I've determined that the initial results were not quite accurate. It appears that Confusion counts the initial turn that Tatsugiri enters its Commander state, but not any further turns spent inside Dondozo.
The first turn of Commander counting toward Confusion turns can be seen by noticing that Tatsugiri breaks out of Confusion as soon as it acts upon leaving its Commander state in this video, even though it's only spent 1 Confusion turn (out of the minimum 2 total Confusion turns inflicted by the Confuse Ray) attempting to use a move so far.
To prove that further turns spent Commanding don't count, take a look at this other video, which shows Tatsugiri spending 10+ turns inside Dondozo after being Confused by a slower Axe Kick, only to remain in Confusion for another 4 turns after it exits the Commander state.
Edit 3:
One more edit for good measure on this post regarding the Tatsugiri status effect testing. Sleep does not count the initial turn of Tatsugiri entering its Commander state. Sleep also does not count any further turns Tatsugiri stays in the Commander state.
- A Telepathy user is unable to be healed by a partner's Pollen Puff. The move is blocked completely in the same way as it is with Bulletproof. Tested this one because of a question I noticed over on Bulbapedia.
- Hyper Beam's recharge turn still counts if Tatsugiri begins Commanding on the turn that it would happen, meaning that Tatsugiri can attack again as soon as Dondozo faints.
- A Dondozo in the semi-invulnerable turn of Dive is still valid to activate Commander if Tatsugiri switches in. Dondozo's Dive use completes as normal after being stat-boosted.
- A Tatsugiri in the semi-invulnerable turn of Dive can activate Commander if Dondozo switches in, cancelling the Dive.
- Intimidate affects a Commanding Tatsugiri, but doesn't activate an Eject Pack if Tatsugiri is holding one (Edit 3: Further confirmation of this interaction without any potential effects from conditions like Ingrain). However, a Commanding Tatsugiri is unaffected by Cotton Down. This will need to be re-examined when legal users of the Cotton Down Ability are made available, but it's how the mechanic works for now.
- Confusion, Encore, Ingrain, Mean Look, and Whirlpool effects persist if inflicted on Tatsugiri prior to it entering the Commander state.
Confusion seems to count turns during Commanding, but as you'd expect it cannot display as ended until Tatsugiri exits the Commander state to select a move for the "Broke out of confusion" message.Edit 2: See the bottom of this post for a better result on this.- Encore and Whirlpool count turns while Commanding and display the text that they have ended when the appropriate number of turns have passed. Whirlpool inflicts its binding damage as normal.
- If Tatsugiri's use of Solar Beam is interrupted by Tatsugiri entering its Commander state, then the move is cancelled completely and Tatsugiri can select a different move when Dondozo faints.
- A Dondozo with the Healer Ability can cure a partner Commanding Tatsugiri's status condition.
- Edit: Completely forgot to mention an obvious one at the end here that's shown in the videos. A Commanded Dondozo cannot be sent out of the battle by an Eject Pack or by using Baton Pass.
- Edit 2: Also neglected to mention that this video shows that Blunder Policy does not activate for a Pokemon targeting a Commanding Tatsugiri.
Edit 2:
Regarding the Confusion tests, I've determined that the initial results were not quite accurate. It appears that Confusion counts the initial turn that Tatsugiri enters its Commander state, but not any further turns spent inside Dondozo.
The first turn of Commander counting toward Confusion turns can be seen by noticing that Tatsugiri breaks out of Confusion as soon as it acts upon leaving its Commander state in this video, even though it's only spent 1 Confusion turn (out of the minimum 2 total Confusion turns inflicted by the Confuse Ray) attempting to use a move so far.
To prove that further turns spent Commanding don't count, take a look at this other video, which shows Tatsugiri spending 10+ turns inside Dondozo after being Confused by a slower Axe Kick, only to remain in Confusion for another 4 turns after it exits the Commander state.
Edit 3:
One more edit for good measure on this post regarding the Tatsugiri status effect testing. Sleep does not count the initial turn of Tatsugiri entering its Commander state. Sleep also does not count any further turns Tatsugiri stays in the Commander state.
Last edited:
I did some minor mechanic testing on Jaw Lock since it's a pretty relevant move on Roaring Moon in Battle Stadium Singles right now!
With Shed Shell
I had a Roaring Moon with Shed Shell use Jaw Lock on a Sylveon. Roaring Moon was able to switch out, but not Sylveon, so Shed Shell still works with Jaw Lock.
Tera Ghost Interactions
- When Roaring Moon Terastallized into a Ghost-type, then used Jaw Lock, the trapping message entirely failed to show up. Both the Roaring Moon and Sylveon were able to switch out.
- I tested to see how Jaw Lock's trapping works if you Terastallize AFTER using it. On turn 2 after using Jaw Lock on turn 1, I Terastallize. On turn 3, I am able to switch out Roaring Moon, but my brother's Sylveon is unable to switch out.
With Shed Shell
I had a Roaring Moon with Shed Shell use Jaw Lock on a Sylveon. Roaring Moon was able to switch out, but not Sylveon, so Shed Shell still works with Jaw Lock.
Tera Ghost Interactions
- When Roaring Moon Terastallized into a Ghost-type, then used Jaw Lock, the trapping message entirely failed to show up. Both the Roaring Moon and Sylveon were able to switch out.
- I tested to see how Jaw Lock's trapping works if you Terastallize AFTER using it. On turn 2 after using Jaw Lock on turn 1, I Terastallize. On turn 3, I am able to switch out Roaring Moon, but my brother's Sylveon is unable to switch out.
On showdown, in a double battle when you use a spread move that activates the weakness policy on two opposing Pokémon, one of which has symbiosis, the weakness policies are activated in order of left to right. (From the perspective of the attacker) So if the non symbiosis Pokémon is on the left it uses its weakness policy then gets another one, while if the Pokémon is on the right they both activate their own weakness policy. Is this accurate to cart?
Tested this out twice swapping positions. They both activate their own weakness policy regardless of order.
Scream tail (non symbiosis on the right of the attacker) note: this activates scream tail's weakness policy first.
Scream tail (non symbiosis on the left of attacker)
unable to do so myself so can someone check how relic song melo works this gen with switching (i.e. does it keep pirouette form after pivoting out bc if so thats a huge buff it got this gen). i sadly doubt anything will change but its something to know at least for the future.
Meloetta still doesn't maintain its Pirouette form after switching out and back in
It does continue to display as Normal/Fighting in the switch menu until it switches back in, though, interestingly enough.
this is actually decently big, means that pirouette should be able to be directly put in and maintain that form - maybe worth testing too, or if it just crashes the game lol (or is just mid again
)
Unfortunately when I tried to insert a Meloetta as Pirouette form, it reverted upon loading the save the same way that Palafin reverts if it's inserted in its Hero form. You can see that Meloetta does revert form in the switch menu, but it still shows the Fighting typing on it until it comes back into battle in the video.this is actually decently big, means that pirouette should be able to be directly put in and maintain that form - maybe worth testing too, or if it just crashes the game lol (or is just mid again
I figured I should grab some footage of this since it's pretty important to Nintendo formats, yet I couldn't find any documentation of it online. It's a bit obvious, but I've seen some misunderstandings about this before!
Perish Song does NOT work like Haze against Good as Gold, so the ability will actually block Perish Song, but ONLY for Gholdengo! So yes, Flutter Mane still gets KOed...
Perish Song does NOT work like Haze against Good as Gold, so the ability will actually block Perish Song, but ONLY for Gholdengo! So yes, Flutter Mane still gets KOed...
Last edited:
Is this true? Because I'm seeing a Bax being hit by a Fire type move and a Kilowattrel being hit by a wind move, while Electromorphosis is triggered by any attack. Seems to me like the abilities function as usual and there's no interaction with Sheer Force?
E: unless you just meant to say that Sheer Force does not prevent those abilities from working, though idk why it would anyway given that these abilities are not triggered by secondary effects or anything.
Sheer Force has a weird tendency to cancel things other than the secondary effect of moves (most famously Life Orb recoil, but it also cancels some abilities like Color Change and Berserk). DarkFE was confirming that even though the moves were boosted by Sheer Force, the abilities still activated.
Are Hydro Steam and Psyblade custom BP or BP modifiers? And for Hydro Steam specifically, does it set the weather damage modifier to 1 when used in sun?
Psyblade appears to be boosted by Sharpness. I got a wild level 29 Ditto to transform into an Umbreon with Copycat and 86 Attack then Skill Swapped Sharpness onto it with a Gallade and spammed Psyblade from Iron Leaves into it until it copied the move. In the meantime it Screeched me down to -6, and when it finally attacked back it did 31 damage, which is consistent with a Sharpness boost.
Lvl 29 86 Atk Sharpness Umbreon Psyblade vs. -6 Lvl 75 160 Def Iron Leaves: 29-34 (11.2 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
Lvl 29 86 Atk Sharpness Umbreon Psyblade vs. -6 Lvl 75 160 Def Iron Leaves: 29-34 (11.2 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
it does not
yes, but i found something interesting while looking into this...
it appears that with utility umbrella hydro steam not only loses the boost from the sun, but also is nerfed in the sun.
E: the relevant stats are 192 hp / 126 spdef on slither wing, and 145 spatk on wake.
we see here hydro steam doing 28% to slither wing. (137/192)
in this clip we see hydro steam doing 156/192 hp or about 20%, in sun with the utility umbrella attached
here we see here hydro steam doing about 64% to slither wing. (69/192) strangely enough, this aligns closer with a 2.25x (1.5*1.5) increase as opposed to a 1.95x increase that it should have. (1.3*1.5), so this may be worth looking into more as well.
these calcs are really strange because with the umbrella on in sun, wake is doing ~33% less with its move compared to when its used out of sun, i hope someone else can confirm the exact % decrease with more tests because i am pretty busy tonight but figured this would be a good place to bring it up, and can basically confirm it is not a 1/2 reduction. also the strange 28% to 64% calc from getting knocked is also interesting so i encourage somebody to run this test with a larger sample size and see if the 1.3x proto * 1.5x hydro steam aligns and i just got weird rolls, or if its really 1.5*1.5..
tldr, hydro steam receives a nerf in sun of about 33% while holding a utility umbrella not how it currently works on ps.
thanks to TDK for taking the time to help me test this stuff out
Last edited:
I updated my Move Data spreadsheet with the two new moves for 1.2.0, Psyblade and Hydro Steam:
Published Link.
Click this to make a copy for yourself.
Published Link.
Click this to make a copy for yourself.
This math doesn't seem correct no? If hydro steam really did get a sun boost on top of a power boost, the multiplier would be 1.5 (Power boost) * 1.5 (Sun boost) * 1.3 (Protosynthesis) which is closer to a 2.925x power boost. Which is a whole .7x off of the difference in power we actually saw (2.283x). It seems significantly more likely that this has more to do with disparate damage rolls with a small sample size no?