Salamence + Ninjask Combo?

Wolfen11

Okay then.
I've set my first string team, so I decided to come up with something unorthodox that I could use as play-for-fun when I don't feel all that competitive.
I've been playing this on Shoddy the past three days, and have had nice results. I'm currently at 41 wins and 12 losses. I feel the general idea has potential, but it lacks polish. So please help me make it shine.
The thing is, whenever I lose, I LOSE. It's always a total disaster.

An important note: Please do not think of this team as revolving around Ninjask and Mence, for it does not. They are a very important part, and play significant roles in setting the stage, but it's not all about them.
Without further adieu


dpmfa291.png

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Jolly - Speed Boost
248HP/252Spe/4Def/4SpDef

Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Sunny Day
Protect

This is probably the weirdest thing you guys have seen right?
248 HP gives it an odd number (with 31 IV), and although speed is useless beyond 416 (Lead Rain Dance Electrode), it helps should I run into other Ninjask, as I have.
The basic premise is to SD as the sash is broken, and then BP a +2 Attack/+1 Speed to Salamence (or sometimes Scizor).

It has no attacks? I know, and I loathe that, but doing this is the only way I found of covering my ass against all (or at least most) threats.
Swords Dance and BP is pretty obvious, and Sunny Day is there because of weather leads.
I've been considering X-Scissor over Protect, but Protect has so far been really useful against fake out leads. It also helps bring Ninjask back mid-game if his Sash has already been broken, protect for one turn, and then pass the speed boost. With X-Scissor, I run 96 speed (418), take down some HP and add attack.


dpmfa373.png

Salamence @ Life Orb
Mild/Rash - Intimidate
144Atk/252Sp Attack/112Spd

Draco Meteor
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Earthquake

This is MixMence, tweaked to fit the combo. With 112 speed EVs and a Speed boost from Ninjask, he has 396 speed, which basically means he's faster than everyone save Scarfers and DDancers. The magic is that he comes in already boosted, not leaving a turn for the opponent to hit while setting up. With the +2 attack, he hits a whopping 684 attack.
I use Dragon Claw over Outrage because his objective is to tear as big a hole in adversary, and leave it open for the rest of the team to swoop in, and getting locked into Outrage and then confused doesn't really help. The power drop isn't that significant when fired from a STAB 684 Atk stat.
Also, if I get him out before he drops, I can later bring him back either by repeating with Ninjask, or just use him as a slower MixMence.


dpmfa212.png

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant - Technician
252 Atk/232 Spe/32 HP

Bullet Punch
X-Scissor
Brick Break
Swords Dance

This is the standard LO SD Scizor. It's main thing to come in the hole left by Salamence, and keep bringing the pain. Since Ninjask is always alive mid and late game (he's usually the last one to die, actually) I can put him in after one of mine has been killed, and pass a speed boost to Scizor, putting him at 333. And, if Ninjask still has 100% HP, it can also pass a Swords Dance to Scizor, producing the same effect it does on Salamence, by coming in already buffed. I've been considering taking his SD out, and putting in a fourth attacking move, like Pursuit.

dpmfa485.png

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Naive/Hasty - Flash Fire
252SpAtk/252Speed

Dragon Pulse
Flamethrower
Explosion
Earth Power

As I said, I want sweepers who can come in Mence's momentum and keep killing stuff.
Honestly, I don't much like Choice items (i'm still open to them, though), execept for the occasional Scarf. Scarf Explosion really helps, though.
The problem with this however, is that it doesn't spell out reliable and versatile, which means I often find myself switching him out, and that usually leads to losing the momentum.
I really need help finding another Special sweeper, preferably without Choice Specs/Scarf. I have been considering Gengar.


dpmfa121.png

Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid - Natural Cure
40HP/156Def/216Speed

Rapid Spin
Recover
Thunderbolt
Surf

Pointy floating rocks are a real bitch to this team, for they take 50% off Ninjask, breaking the Sash/killing him if that's already happened, and dent Salamence. So I couldn't go without a Rapid Spinner.
I originally used Forretress, but I found that getting outsped usually meant getting killed before spinning, and that hurt, A LOT.

dpmfa134.png

Vaporeon - Leftovers
Bold - Water Absorb
188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpAtk

Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power
Wish/Toxic

I love this little thing. It works great in any team, and has so far done a lot for me, especially when sponging Surfs aimed at Heatran. This thing demolishes Gyarados, who sometimes gives me trouble.
Toxic over Wish instead of hidden power sounds awkward, but I can't go without HP because of the already stated sea serpent.
I experimented with Toxic there once, and it worked pretty nicely. I find Wish to be too circumstantial. It seems that when I can nicely implement it, it works wonders, but otherwise just takes up a spot where Toxic would've been great. I'm afraid to take it out, though.
I'm using the spread in the analysis, but is that the old one (OHKO Chomp?) If so, what should I use?​


A couple final touches:
- I have a lot of trouble with Fighting-types, most notably Machamp, Hariyama and Breloom.
- I've been thinking Sunny Day might be a waste of space. Is the ability to screw over weather leads valuable enough to keep it?
- I'm not stone set on any pokemon, and would replace any given decent reason, but I'd rather keep the NinjaskMence combo, or at the very least keep Ninjask and something like MixApe.
- If you don't like the idea, there's no need to state it. This isn't my actual team, this is just something I did for fun. There's no need to curse my ancestors over how I'm so "omfgsofckin'stupd"


Thanks!​
 
Id replace Sunny Day if you feel you would rather have an attack.

For a Special Sweeper, you could use a CMLucario set, with Psychic or something.

Overall, a very fine team
 
Just something small I noticed, Starmie already has T-Bolt so she could serve as your Gyara counter. In that case, there's no real reason to overlap by having Vaporeon with Hidden Power [Electric I'll assume =/]. So, opt for Protect as you gain Leftovers recovery, can evade a hit after the turn you just protected, or scout for Choice users to give you an advantage. Sorry, just a small thing as I said before.



~Absol
 
OK, starting with Ninjask. First of all, I know you might be scared of Hippos and the like, but you shouldn't be. You've got Pokemon to cover those weaknesses... But, that's besides the point, so here we go. You are walled by Lead Taunt Azelfs, which is kinda funny to say. So, get rid of Sunny Day, and put in X-Scissor, it can get the likes of Azelf and LeadGross onto their heels. Also, since Ninjask's Spped stat is so massive, there is absolutely no point to run max Speed, use this spread: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe. This is so he can outpace Choice Scarf Adamant Heracross, as well as Swift Swim Kingdra. Also, for Mence, I know you're excited about that "whopping" Attack stat, but you don't need that whopping Attack stat to sweep, so use this spread: 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe. Switch Dragon Claw with Outrage, once you get boosts, Outrage will do so much damage it isn't even funny. The EVs are specifically designed to combat a few of Salamence's most common switch-ins. The Attack EV's guarantee that Outrage 2HKO's the most defensive of Bold Blissey with Stealth Rock. 208 Speed EVs assure that Salamence outruns all Gyarados prior to a Dragon Dance. The rest are dumped into Special Attack.

OK, for Scizor, instead of X-Scissor, use Roost, you'll love it when you come in and clean up with it late game. It can get you out of many tight situations as well. Now, Tran with HP Grass > Dragon Pulse, because you can outpredict those who think they can switch in Pert safely. I don't want you to switch to TrickGar because you already have synergy with Scizor and Tran, and you gain another Ghost and Dark weakness.

For Starmie, you can put Grass Knot in place of Thunderbolt for Lanturn, but since those aren't that common, it's not required. But, you should use this spread: 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe. Now, this spread is so you can switch into Stealth Rock on the Dragon Dance, take the Earthquake with the given EVs, and OHKO with Thunderbolt if Gyarados was hit by Stealth Rock or had taken any prior damage. OK, for Vappy, since you're no longer scared of Gyara, you can now use this set:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Bold Natured (+Def, -Atk)
188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA

~ Wish
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Baton Pass/Yawn

Now, this way, Physical Sweepers like Mence won't be as scary, and you can support the team. The last slot is up to you, you can Pass Wish to a teammate and scout at the same time, or phaze with Yawn.

Hopefully I helped, good luck with the team:)!!
 
Why not just run Dragon Dance on Mence? Ninjask may as well be a dead slot against any good player (especially with no attacks). Ninjask's ability to pass seems decent, but most teams run a way to deal with it. Roarers/Whirlwinders, Hazers, Priority Moves, Multi-Hit attacks, Magma Storm, Trick, Taunt, Encore, they all screw him up.
 
I have to basically disagree with everything Pimplup said except for the Vaporeon set, and replacing Sunny Day with X-Scissor (to beat Azelf). Use Yawn, because dry passing Baton Passing is illogical if Wobbuffett isn't on the scene. Having no X-Scissor will make you walled by Celebi. As you already said, Outrage will lock you in, and the difference really isn't that amazing compared to being walled by Steels for several turns. Grass Knot would be for Swampert and the like mainly, and they'll probably be wasted on Salamence. Otherwise, your team is intriguing.
 
MapleSandwich said:
I have to basically disagree with everything Pimplup said except for the Vaporeon set, and replacing Sunny Day with X-Scissor (to beat Azelf). Use Yawn, because dry passing Baton Passing is illogical if Wobbuffett isn't on the scene. Having no X-Scissor will make you walled by Celebi. As you already said, Outrage will lock you in, and the difference really isn't that amazing compared to being walled by Steels for several turns. Grass Knot would be for Swampert and the like mainly, and they'll probably be wasted on Salamence. Otherwise, your team is intriguing.
Click to expand...

Here we go then, I know he dislikes getting locked into Outrage Confusion, but once he's done sweeping, he can always switch out. Also, Scizor, one of the main switch ins, is 100% 2HKO'd from a boosted Outrage, something that doesn't normally happen. Same thing with Cres, 100% 2HKO'd. This is without SR of course... Now, for Celebi, because you are a bit concerned by it...

654 Atk vs 314 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 86.14% - 101.73%

That's a 7.69% chance to OHKO Celebi, and then the rest can be handled by Ninjask or Bullet Punch Scizor. Just wanted to point that out, but you prove good points:).
 
*For some stupid reason I can't edit the first post*

Thanks everyone for the comments.
I have tested out most of them

Dawnstar
This debate has been killing me. Sunny day ends up being a dead weight most of the time, and using X-Scissor has really helped me out, but in the rare occasion I do run into a weather lead it means I can only BP Speed Boosts. I'll give this more test.

AbsolDeath
Right you are. I'd just gotten so used to HP Electric Vappy xD. I'll leave Starmie as Gyara counter, and I'm still working on what to put over HP.

@Pimplup
Ninjask changes are already in effect. Yes, ended up walled by lead azelf.
While the speed boost is alluring in Mence, especially if I have to bring him out mid-game without a boost from Ninjask, I have no love for Outrage, which leads me to use Dragon Claw, I wonder if the power drop (30) would be too much. But maybe at 600+ it won't matter so much.
Roost on Scizor is being tested.

I actually am running those EVs on Starmie. Don't know why I wrote them like that, and the stupid thing won't let me edit. As for Heatran, I plan on bringing this team to RL, are there are any good HP Grass Heatrans like that here?
And for that spot, I've been testing a Choice Specs Lucario, but with LO instead of the glasses.

Vappy has already been changed, but I'm debating Toxic over Yawn. What say you?

@wildfire
I do, on my first team. That's why I'm trying something different here. And like this, Mence dishes a lot more pain than with DD.

As for the Outrage thing, Fire Blast takes care of Scizor, dont know about Cress, though.
 
Wolfen11 said:
*For some stupid reason I can't edit the first post*

Thanks everyone for the comments.
I have tested out most of them

Dawnstar
This debate has been killing me. Sunny day ends up being a dead weight most of the time, and using X-Scissor has really helped me out, but in the rare occasion I do run into a weather lead it means I can only BP Speed Boosts. I'll give this more test.

AbsolDeath
Right you are. I'd just gotten so used to HP Electric Vappy xD. I'll leave Starmie as Gyara counter, and I'm still working on what to put over HP.

@Pimplup
Ninjask changes are already in effect. Yes, ended up walled by lead azelf.
While the speed boost is alluring in Mence, especially if I have to bring him out mid-game without a boost from Ninjask, I have no love for Outrage, which leads me to use Dragon Claw, I wonder if the power drop (30) would be too much. But maybe at 600+ it won't matter so much.
Roost on Scizor is being tested.

I actually am running those EVs on Starmie. Don't know why I wrote them like that, and the stupid thing won't let me edit. As for Heatran, I plan on bringing this team to RL, are there are any good HP Grass Heatrans like that here?
And for that spot, I've been testing a Choice Specs Lucario, but with LO instead of the glasses.

Vappy has already been changed, but I'm debating Toxic over Yawn. What say you?

@wildfire
I do, on my first team. That's why I'm trying something different here. And like this, Mence dishes a lot more pain than with DD.

As for the Outrage thing, Fire Blast takes care of Scizor, dont know about Cress, though.
Click to expand...
Hmm, here we go, I just realized something very important, so I'm going to start right away. Vaporeon wants Yawn. Heatran is good with HP Grass. I have one and it owns, lol. OK, so enought of the shallow sentences, here we go, just realized we really need to change that Mence.

Spr_4d_373.png

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Naughty Natured (+Atk, -SpD)
232 Atck/24 Sp.Atck/252 Speed

~ Outrage
~ Dragon Claw
~ Fire Blast
~ Earthquake

This way, we're both happy. With this set, you can Outrage and sweep 3 of the opponents Pokes, and then shrug of Confusion with Lum Berry, and then you can pick any attack after that. Special Attack EV's are so you can OHKO Skarm with Max HP and minimal SpD (Impish Nature). Here are some calcs for common switch-ins (+2 Boost)...

SD Scizor
800 Atk vs 236 Def & 289 HP (120 Base Power): (75.43% - 88.93%) 2HKO

Support Cres
800 Atk vs 372 Def & 444 HP (120 Base Power): (62.39% - 73.65%) 2HKO

Sleep Talk Cres
800 Atk vs 326 Def & 444 HP (120 Base Power): (71.17% - 84.01%) 2HKO

Celebi (252 HP/ 220 Def)
800 Atk vs 314 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): (81.19% - 95.79%) 2HKO

Then, you can finish off with select moves. With SR, you can actually have a 53.85% to OHKO Celebi, but you don't have it... So, now we take Starmie out, because you are Electric Weak anyways, and put in Donphan.

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Impish Natured (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP/6 Atck/252 Def

~ Rapid Spin
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Shard
~ Stealth Rock

Also, now that you don't have T-Bolt on Starmie, switch to HP Electric on Vappy (in place of Ice Beam). You can counter Dragons pretty well with Donphan so you don't need Ice Beam, plus, you need something to counter Gyara again.

Now you have an added Water weakness, Grass weakness, and Ice Weakness. Also, now that you don't have T-Bolt on Starmie, switch to HP Electric on Vappy (in place of Ice Beam). You now have a pretty good counter to Dragons with Ice Shard on Donphan.

Water: Goes to Vaporeon, sucks it up happily.
Grass: Can go to any other teammate, your butt is saved well here.
Ice: Vaporeon, Tran, and Scizor.

Now, you can make 2HKO's OHKO's. Let's look at some of the calcs again with SR factored.

SD Scizor: 7.69% chance to OHKO with SR up.
Support Cres: 2HKO, no matter what...
Sleep Talk Cres: Same dealio...
Celebi (252 HP/ 220 Def): 53.85% chance to OHKO with SR up.

Now, we need to make changes to Ninjask, and that involves putting in Substitute in place of Protect. This way, when passed to, your Pokemon can survive more, and it can get you out of a bunch tight situations. I think I need to make a change to the EV spread again, I need to ask maddog, because I saw him post one, and I can't find it :P. OK, hope I helped:D!!
 
Wow.
First of all, I want to thank you for the dedication you've been putting into this.
I've tested that Mence, and so far it's been working out really good. I'd tested out a team with Tenta in place of Starmie. The first match with Donphan I noticed how valuable electric immunity is to this team. SR support really helps too.

As for Vaporeon, I know this sounds weird, but I don't like to use him as a sponge on this team. I use him as the guy to take miscellanous hits but keep beating on, not settling in defense. Reason why I've chosen to take out Wish. I've been using Surf, Ice Beam, Toxic, HP Elec. I am still testing Yawn over Ice Beam/Toxic.

As for Heatran, I've honestly gotten quite tired of him. I've put in his place this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest - Inner Focus
252 Spatk/252 Speed
~Aura Sphere
~Vacuum Wave
~HP Ice
~Shadow Ball

It's been working out great.

As for Ninjask, using Sub in place of protect isn't so good. Not many people refrain from attacking him, fearing exactly the situation where he would sub and BP. This way they keep getting broken, and it makes him a lot less safe to use, especially mid-game when the opponent's not conderned with setting up SR and stuff.
 
Wolfen11 said:
Wow.
First of all, I want to thank you for the dedication you've been putting into this.
I've tested that Mence, and so far it's been working out really good. I'd tested out a team with Tenta in place of Starmie. The first match with Donphan I noticed how valuable electric immunity is to this team. SR support really helps too.

As for Vaporeon, I know this sounds weird, but I don't like to use him as a sponge on this team. I use him as the guy to take miscellanous hits but keep beating on, not settling in defense. Reason why I've chosen to take out Wish. I've been using Surf, Ice Beam, Toxic, HP Elec. I am still testing Yawn over Ice Beam/Toxic.

As for Heatran, I've honestly gotten quite tired of him. I've put in his place this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest - Inner Focus
252 Spatk/252 Speed
~Aura Sphere
~Vacuum Wave
~HP Ice
~Shadow Ball

It's been working out great.

As for Ninjask, using Sub in place of protect isn't so good. Not many people refrain from attacking him, fearing exactly the situation where he would sub and BP. This way they keep getting broken, and it makes him a lot less safe to use, especially mid-game when the opponent's not conderned with setting up SR and stuff.
Click to expand...
No problem, I did it to help you and make you successful, and it's fun rating anyways :P. I'm also very glad Mence is working, and I'm glad that you also changed Heatran to Luke. That retains everything you had before, while probably adding danger to the opponent, because it can switch attacks. For Ninjask, do what's right, that was just a suggestion earlier;). Anyways, good job, glad I helped, and Good Luck climbing that Ladder:pirate:!!
 
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