Resource RU Viability Ranking

[EnerG218]

Nominating Mightyena for at least C+ Rank


SUPER DOGE (Mightyena) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang
- Play Rough

Mightyena is really an underrated gem in RU, with lots of sweeping potential thanks to Moxie and it's decent movepool. Fire Fang + Play Rough hit things Crunch/Sucker Punch can't and not much can take a hit from a +1 Mightyena. Some calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 361-426 (149.1 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 452-536 (131.3 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 382-452 (130.8 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 175-207 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (decent damage)
252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 252-299 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
not too impressive but I'd say it's good enough for at least C+ rank. -Tsunami- utilizes Mightyena really well and this really shouldn't be this low

 

[Erube]

this is fucking aids

Your ignorance is alarming, have you even used Mienfoo? Based on your response you better expect an ire from the people of this forum.
...
Anyway

Nominating mienfoo for D rank
Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch / High Jump Kick
- Taunt / Fake Out
Mienfoo can't really be compared to any other Pokemon in the tier because nothing else available has access to a combination of Regenerator and U-Turn. Slow U-Turns are incredibly useful, not only for generally maintaining momentum, but to get powerful but frail Pokemon such as Swellow and Sharpedo in safely, putting even more pressure on the opponent. This meshes brilliantly with Regenerator, because Mienfoo's constant switching will be able to make plenty of use from the ability and allow Mienfoo to continue U-Turning throughout the match. On top of this, Mienfoo packs a solid disruptive movepool, containing options such as Knock Off, Taunt, and Fake Out. Although Mienfoo isn't extremely bulky, Eviolite allows it to avoid the OHKO from most unboosted neutral attacks with some investment. Mienfoo's offensive presence can be somewhat lacking occasionally, even with a powerful STAB move in High Jump Kick, but access to Taunt and its pivoting nature mean this tends not to be too large of an issue. Mienfoo also gets Baton Pass and a multitude of boosting moves, although I'm not sure how much of a niche it has over other Baton Passers, even with Regenerator, due to its average bulk and inability to abuse these boosting moves itself.
The main thing holding Mienfoo back is that its BST is lower than Dugtrio's

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 100
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 Def / 252 HP
Serious Nature
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

I have the supposition that Levi has ommitted to mention the special set that Mienfoo can run.
Mienfoo can run both a physical and special set. What does this mean? It has unpredictability further proving that Mienfoo is a tremendous theat to this tier.
+1 0 SpA Mienfoo Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sharpedo: 320-380 (113.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As descried above all it needs is one turn to setup and it can take out Sharpedo.
With baton pass it can pass this boost to Delphox further making Mienfoo exceptionally important to this meta game.
+1 0 SpA Mienfoo Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zoroark: 242-288 (92.7 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
This further shows the importance of Mienfoo in this tier.
As said before the only thing holding Mienfoo back is the simple fact that Mienfoo's BST is lower than Dugtrio's.

 

[President Shinra]

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 100
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 Def / 252 HP
Serious Nature
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

nice nature

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

I saw someone posting about Archeops and strangely no one replied so I'll do it. To be fair I have absolutely none experience with/against offensive Archeops at all but one set I used and also faced and watched a couple of times is an anti-lead set, actually being almost destroyed by this thing got me curious to use it. Anti-Lead Archeops is actually pretty sweet on the metagame. 110 Speed is awesome and lets it have the second fastest Stealth Rock on RU, great for hetero Hyper Offense, and access to Taunt prevents hazards from pestering your side of the field (fuck you, Shuckle). The one I used and faced/watched also has Head Smash, which can OHKO those kind of Shuckle that for some reason I don't know use Contrary instead of Sturdy, provided it hits. Not only SR and Taunt, but Endeavor is also used to possibly grab a neat semi-kill on a troublesome Pokemon Archeops is facing. It has its problems though, being the Speed tie with Froslass (Icy Wind versions is extremely dangerous to this set), faster Pokemon that can kill it such as Jolteon and Cinccino, Endeavor not hitting Ghosts (Anti-Lead Archeops is Doublade's bait), Rock Blast Rhyperior and strong need to use Stealth Rock before Endeavor, which a good Taunt prediction can ruin the tactic. I nominate the first bird for either C or C+ for now because of this set only since I really have nothing to say about any other Archeops variation due my experience with/against this set solely, but I think anti-lead will get MUCH better after both Froslass and Shuckle banned and may possibly get promoted. Till there, I'd like to hear people with experience with/against other Archeops set, but for C+ or C seems fine to me.

And supporting Meloetta to A because Relic Song is threatenning asf and on the first attemp you somewhat need to predict if it's only regular or it'll be Pirouette, and that only is a huge pain, let alone figure the sets within the sets. AND KECLEON FOR D CUZ FUCK HJK

 

[atomicllamas]

Nominating Fletchinder to B+, as it is actually ridiculously good in the meta right now. One extremely common build right now is Hazard setter (Shuckle / Froslass), Hitmonlee, and Doublade, none of which really enjoy dealing with Fletchinder, as Lee is forced out every time, and Doublade can't even hope to dodge the Will-o-wisp. It also still performs well against stall, as it has no problem setting up on Aromatisse, and can actually be quite threatening after a single Swords Dance (which is actually not all that hard to do). I don't feel like writing a long post, but yeah Fletchinder is super anti meta, and while the SR weakness is a major flaw, its positives greatly out weigh the negatives.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

im goin to stomp out this unjustice that i see in ru. this mon has been crapped on ever since 4ever ago and i feel like this is just a severe case of racism against one of my fellow hittas

My hitta-monchan

dat^

ok so im finna stomp out all this undeserved h8 that monchan gets
ok im not saying hitmonchan is s rank
but it sure as heck isn't worse than claydol

reasons why hitmonchan is hated (listed in order of prevalence)
1. it suks
2. it suks
3. outclassed by hitmonlee
4. hitmonlee is stronger
4. hitmontop is a better spinner
5. ok according to everyone else it suks so let me just hop on the bandwagon real quick
6. it suks

ok yes hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by hitmonlee and is outclassed by top as a defensive spinner but
#1 - ok whatever dank hitta told u hitmonchan should be used defensively should be shot
#2 - hitmonchan has advantages and disadvantages when compared to lee
heres wat i can think of off the top of my head-
-A more reliable STAB move that won't usually kill you if you mispredict a ghost
-although unable to break through most ghosts, can reliably beat amoonguss and other resists that lee usually does less to with it's
-amazing coverage
-more physically bulky

Disadvantages:
- weaker
- slower
- unable to break thru ghosts

the advantages help hitmonlee as you can't really have an untimely miss when you sweep as CC Has 100% accuracy, a lot of mons are 2HKOd by hitmon's coverage, and it also has the "wtf? factor" as in lol u just got rekt by agility hitmonchan. You also are able to play around ghosts with some team support so yeah :@

Some sets i've seen ran efficently on monchan are Agility (stronger unburden hitmonlee) AV (ok spinner i guess idr like this set too much) and SubPunch (um any team without ghosts or exploud gg)

I'd say my hitta monchan, although vastly outclassed by hitmonlee is at least better than claydol ;_; , and should be at least d-rank if not c-rank

 

[Mymble]

Having used anti-lead Archeops a fair amount I can say that it is a decently reliable SR setter, if nothing else. Taunt helps Archeops shut down opposing hazard leads, particularly Cobalion and Froslass which it outspeeds. Endeavor is nice, but surprisingly hard to find an opening to use. Head Smash can OHKO Contrary Shuckle, but then you break your Focus Sash. Archeops is incredibly frail, with a god awful ability. I have no experience with offensive sets, but I doubt that they are all that good. Personally I think C Rank is appropriate right now given how it is very one dimensional and how there are Pokemon which fill a similar role more reliably.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

reasons why hitmonchan is hated (listed in order of prevalence)
1. it suks
2. it suks
3. outclassed by hitmonlee
4. hitmonlee is stronger
4. hitmontop is a better spinner
5. ok according to everyone else it suks so let me just hop on the bandwagon real quick
6. it suks

ok yes hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by hitmonlee and is outclassed by top as a defensive spinner but
#1 - ok whatever dank hitta told u hitmonchan should be used defensively should be shot
#2 - hitmonchan has advantages and disadvantages when compared to lee
heres wat i can think of off the top of my head-
-A more reliable STAB move that won't usually kill you if you mispredict a ghost
-although unable to break through most ghosts, can reliably beat amoonguss and other resists that lee usually does less to with it's
-amazing coverage
-more physically bulky

Disadvantages:
- weaker
- slower
- unable to break thru ghosts

the advantages help hitmonlee as you can't really have an untimely miss when you sweep as CC Has 100% accuracy, a lot of mons are 2HKOd by hitmon's coverage, and it also has the "wtf? factor" as in lol u just got rekt by agility hitmonchan. You also are able to play around ghosts with some team support so yeah :@

Some sets i've seen ran efficently on monchan are Agility (stronger unburden hitmonlee) AV (ok spinner i guess idr like this set too much) and SubPunch (um any team without ghosts or exploud gg)

I'd say my hitta monchan, although vastly outclassed by hitmonlee is at least better than claydol ;_; , and should be at least d-rank if not c-rank

Uhhh
#1 Agreed

#2 Uhhh...

-15:50 Leandro !learn hitmonlee, close combat
15:50 TIBot Hitmonlee can learn Close Combat.

- If you want a fighting that can break through Amoonguss just use Gallade, or Blaze Kick never do it please Reckless Double-Edge on Hitmonlee.
- Hitmonlee gets Fighting/Dark. Only misses on Fairies but it can use Poison Jab for them. Gallade also has fantastic coverage which leaves it with a strong 4MSS
- Hitmonlee is not supposed to take hits at all, so bulk is irrelevant .__.

Fletchinder makes Agility unviable, besides Unburden Reveralee is better. AV sucks and SubPunch gives forces Chan to give up on coverage, which sucks.

Claydol can at least set up Rocks and spin at the same time and Trick + Ring Target + Rapid Spin fuck you Doublade if you don't kill first and Gravity/Trick Room for specialized teams (although it still sucks dick). Chan has nothing to do that all other fighting-types on RU can, and its only ranked because it's currently RU for some reason. I wouldn't mind Claydol dropping to E either, but Hitmonchan on D is lol

 

[GlassGlaceon]

Uhhh
#1 Agreed

#2 Uhhh...

-15:50 Leandro !learn hitmonlee, close combat
15:50 TIBot Hitmonlee can learn Close Combat.

- If you want a fighting that can break through Amoonguss just use Gallade, or Blaze Kick never do it please Reckless Double-Edge on Hitmonlee.
- Hitmonlee gets Fighting/Dark. Only misses on Fairies but it can use Poison Jab for them. Gallade also has fantastic coverage which leaves it with a strong 4MSS
- Hitmonlee is not supposed to take hits at all, so bulk is irrelevant .__.

Fletchinder makes Agility unviable, besides Unburden Reveralee is better. AV sucks and SubPunch gives forces Chan to give up on coverage, which sucks.

Claydol can at least set up Rocks and spin at the same time and Trick + Ring Target + Rapid Spin fuck you Doublade if you don't kill first and Gravity/Trick Room for specialized teams (although it still sucks dick). Chan has nothing to do that all other fighting-types on RU can, and its only ranked because it's currently RU for some reason. I wouldn't mind Claydol dropping to E either, but Hitmonchan on D is lol

-C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

This is the C Rank Definition and it defines hitmonchan. Although If it was placed in C it would definitely be Low C/C- but w/ever the point is that Monchan isn't absolute trash. I believe D is where it should be, as it is a lot of trouble to get it to work, but it definitely isn't the most garbage mon in the metagame

- I know hitmonlee learns close combat, but if you decide to run a straight LO Set you're obviously gonna pick HJK as it does like ohko half the metagame, and this is normally the STAB it's reliant on.

- The difference between Agility Chan and Reversalee is that chan doesn't have to "die" to hit hard. By that, i mean you're talking a mon at 25-1% who dies to pretty much any priority, which is very prevalent in RU atm, and um fletchinder beats reversalee just as well so I don't really see your point. um bulk is relevant because if a mon outspeeds you and cant OHKO you or cant outspeed you but can take a hit and OHKO back, you get a hit off on them which does damage, a thing that usually matters in most pokemon games
Mons like Life Orb Dugtrio, max attack virizion, max attack cobalion, Adamant SDef Perior, and some others OHKO Lee but not Chan, and although this doesn't make a huge difference, it makes enough to be mentioned

(Also BTW Agilichan is best set imo :@)

I think hitmonchan isn't great by any means or standards, but High D-Rank/low C-Rank pretty much describes it. Outclassed but can play a role if needed

 

[termi]

im goin to stomp out this unjustice that i see in ru. this mon has been crapped on ever since 4ever ago and i feel like this is just a severe case of racism against one of my fellow hittas

My hitta-monchan

dat^

ok so im finna stomp out all this undeserved h8 that monchan gets
ok im not saying hitmonchan is s rank
but it sure as heck isn't worse than claydol

reasons why hitmonchan is hated (listed in order of prevalence)
1. it suks
2. it suks
3. outclassed by hitmonlee
4. hitmonlee is stronger
4. hitmontop is a better spinner
5. ok according to everyone else it suks so let me just hop on the bandwagon real quick
6. it suks

ok yes hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by hitmonlee and is outclassed by top as a defensive spinner but
#1 - ok whatever dank hitta told u hitmonchan should be used defensively should be shot
#2 - hitmonchan has advantages and disadvantages when compared to lee
heres wat i can think of off the top of my head-
-A more reliable STAB move that won't usually kill you if you mispredict a ghost
-although unable to break through most ghosts, can reliably beat amoonguss and other resists that lee usually does less to with it's
-amazing coverage
-more physically bulky

Disadvantages:
- weaker
- slower
- unable to break thru ghosts

the advantages help hitmonlee as you can't really have an untimely miss when you sweep as CC Has 100% accuracy, a lot of mons are 2HKOd by hitmon's coverage, and it also has the "wtf? factor" as in lol u just got rekt by agility hitmonchan. You also are able to play around ghosts with some team support so yeah :@

Some sets i've seen ran efficently on monchan are Agility (stronger unburden hitmonlee) AV (ok spinner i guess idr like this set too much) and SubPunch (um any team without ghosts or exploud gg)

I'd say my hitta monchan, although vastly outclassed by hitmonlee is at least better than claydol ;_; , and should be at least d-rank if not c-rank

Pretty good post, but you are forgetting one important thing here: it suks

 

[EonX]

Meloetta: I can certainly agree with this move. In fact, I think I brought it up a while back and nobody paid any attention to it. Anyhow, Meloetta is extremely versatile. Capable of running SubCM, Offensive CM, Specs, SpDef, AV, and Mixed Relic. That's 6 sets that are all completely viable depending on what you need Meloetta to do. I will agree with Molk that SubCM is the best overall set Meloetta has, but it's got a really solid offensive and support movepool. About the only thing Meloetta reallly lacks is reliable recovery, which hampers the SpDef set. (not super big when Aromatisse is a good partner for it anyway) Meloetta may not be the best Psychic-type in the tier, but it is certainly quite the versatile one. Between sweeping, wallbreaking, tanking hits, walling, and surprising usual responses with a physical set, Meloetta is a legit A rank Pokemon imo.

Fletchinder: Not entirely sure on B+, but the berd definitely deserves to move up to at least B rank. It shits on p. much any Web offense team that lacks Jolteon, and can be quite annoying in Web mirror matches since Sticky Web helps it to outspeed Zoroark, the most dangerous priority user it has to deal with. Can sweep late-game, and can lure in Rhyperior like no other and cripple it with WoW. You need a way to remove Rocks for sure, but when Hitmonlee is one of the best hole punchers in the tier, this isn't a difficult sacrifice to make.

Hitmonchan: Actually got some use out of Hitmonchan in BW. Sadly, Hitmonchan just got left behind in XY. Hitmonchan's biggest claim to fame (if you want to call it that) in BW was its ability to actually do something to Ghost-types whereas Hitmonlee couldn't. However, the Knock Off buff just makes Hitmonlee, and even Gallade, loads better than Hitmonchan. Gallade even covers Poison-types if you're really worried about them, so Chan can't even claim that. It can spin, but why would you use it over Hitmonlee offensively or Hitmontop defensively. (the latter of which isn't amazing, but it at least has a good defensive ability) Agility sets are totally screwed against Fletchinder, and it's not like they're breaking through the likes of Cofagrigus and Aromatisse fast enough to avoid being crippled / KOed. D rank, maybe, but I just don't really see a reason to use Chan over Hitmonlee, Gallade, or even Hitmontop.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

-C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
This is the C Rank Definition and it defines hitmonchan. Although If it was placed in C it would definitely be Low C/C- but w/ever the point is that Monchan isn't absolute trash. I believe D is where it should be, as it is a lot of trouble to get it to work, but it definitely isn't the most garbage mon in the metagame

- I know hitmonlee learns close combat, but if you decide to run a straight LO Set you're obviously gonna pick HJK as it does like ohko half the metagame, and this is normally the STAB it's reliant on.

- The difference between Agility Chan and Reversalee is that chan doesn't have to "die" to hit hard. By that, i mean you're talking a mon at 25-1% who dies to pretty much any priority, which is very prevalent in RU atm, and um fletchinder beats reversalee just as well so I don't really see your point. um bulk is relevant because if a mon outspeeds you and cant OHKO you or cant outspeed you but can take a hit and OHKO back, you get a hit off on them which does damage, a thing that usually matters in most pokemon games
Mons like Life Orb Dugtrio, max attack virizion, max attack cobalion, Adamant SDef Perior, and some others OHKO Lee but not Chan, and although this doesn't make a huge difference, it makes enough to be mentioned

(Also BTW Agilichan is best set imo :@)

I think hitmonchan isn't great by any means or standards, but High D-Rank/low C-Rank pretty much describes it. Outclassed but can play a role if needed

Ok so let me rephrase my argument. What does that stupid worthless useless piece of garbage known as Hitmonchan in english and Ebiwalar in japanese have, that HITMONLEE, Cobalion, Virizion, Hitmontop, Gallade, Pangoro, Hariyama, Gurdurr, Poliwrath and even motherfucking PRIMEAPE can do to justify its use on a team that isn't really using a skirted male Pokemon? My mistake was compare the hitmonbrothers, but now I compare all fighting-types on RU, and want to know why, just WHY I should use this crap over any of them? The answer is none. Any Agility set is outclassed by Hitmonlee, WHICH CAN USE PRIORITY BY ITSELF IN MACH PUNCH. Just Endure/Reversal/Mach Punch or CC/Knock Off is enough, and it deals with Sticky Web teams pretty well. Besides, Cobalion and Virizion are fast enough. Spin sets are completely overshadowed by Hitmontop due to superior bulk and Intimidate from the ladder. AV is complete trash, even AV Gallade outclasses it due to superior special bulk and secondary STAB. SubPunch is just... uggh. Hitmonchan is outclassed on everything it does. Not even by Fighting-types only! It's agility set is horribly outclassed by Rock Polish Rhyperior or Shell Smash Barbaracle if anyone needs a physical sweeper that can boost speed. Hell, I can use Sharpedo! Hitmonchan is outclassed at anything it does. If it was only for Fighting-types, sure, maybe D-, but at everything. And all D Pokemon can be proud of something veeeeeeeery tiny, but still can make them work (except Claydol maybe). Avalugg and Regirock have monstrous physical bulk, Jynx, Klinklang and Carracosta can sweep but need a shitton of support, Regirock never dies and Sliggoo and Gogoat idk no experience with/against those but I'm sure they're better than Hitmonchan.

tl;dr: Hitmonchan is crap. Crappily crappy crap. It's actually an insult to compare crap and Hitmonchan since the former is much more useful. Sorry if I seem harsh but Hitmonchan sucks so much, SO MUCH. I have no experience with I tell right away but I have against and as a spectator, and I can say whenever someone had a Hitmonchan it was like playing a 6-5. Sorry if I seem too salty, but Hitmonchan sucks, like Electivire. Maybe if you had one or two HUNDRED replays against a standard team showing that Hitmonchan isn't just a handicap or death fodder I can swallow my words. Sorry if I seem rude, but it's Hitmoncrap.

Edit: also passion says hitmonchan is a worthless piece of garbage and doesnt even deserve to be in ru but ladder kids dickride it because they are fuckin retarded

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Fletchinder: Not entirely sure on B+, but the berd definitely deserves to move up to at least B rank. It shits on p. much any Web offense team that lacks Jolteon, and can be quite annoying in Web mirror matches since Sticky Web helps it to outspeed Zoroark, the most dangerous priority user it has to deal with. Can sweep late-game, and can lure in Rhyperior like no other and cripple it with WoW. You need a way to remove Rocks for sure, but when Hitmonlee is one of the best hole punchers in the tier, this isn't a difficult sacrifice to make.

Jolteon doesn't really stop the bird. It can switch in once given no hazards. .. but jolt takes ~40% from unboosted acro. If rocks and one layer of spikes is up, fletch only needs to sd and sweep rly.

srsly i carry fletch on a semistall team cuz it shits so hard on web teams that lack zoro (which the aromatic tiss stops anyways) and it kinda has fun wigh spikes offense too.

I def agree with llamas for B+. Its literally a "oh shit i fucked up there, lets just revenge sweep". Another thing its surprisingly bulky witj the spread molk posted a while back, as it can check monlee p well even on rhe switxhin (bar the rare stone edge) so ye.

fletxch b+ no doubt imo

 

[MikeDawg]

im goin to stomp out this unjustice that i see in ru. this mon has been crapped on ever since 4ever ago and i feel like this is just a severe case of racism against one of my fellow hittas

My hitta-monchan

dat^

ok so im finna stomp out all this undeserved h8 that monchan gets
ok im not saying hitmonchan is s rank
but it sure as heck isn't worse than claydol

reasons why hitmonchan is hated (listed in order of prevalence)
1. it suks
2. it suks
3. outclassed by hitmonlee
4. hitmonlee is stronger
4. hitmontop is a better spinner
5. ok according to everyone else it suks so let me just hop on the bandwagon real quick
6. it suks

ok yes hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by hitmonlee and is outclassed by top as a defensive spinner but
#1 - ok whatever dank hitta told u hitmonchan should be used defensively should be shot
#2 - hitmonchan has advantages and disadvantages when compared to lee
heres wat i can think of off the top of my head-
-A more reliable STAB move that won't usually kill you if you mispredict a ghost
-although unable to break through most ghosts, can reliably beat amoonguss and other resists that lee usually does less to with it's
-amazing coverage
-more physically bulky

Disadvantages:
- weaker
- slower
- unable to break thru ghosts

the advantages help hitmonlee as you can't really have an untimely miss when you sweep as CC Has 100% accuracy, a lot of mons are 2HKOd by hitmon's coverage, and it also has the "wtf? factor" as in lol u just got rekt by agility hitmonchan. You also are able to play around ghosts with some team support so yeah :@

Some sets i've seen ran efficently on monchan are Agility (stronger unburden hitmonlee) AV (ok spinner i guess idr like this set too much) and SubPunch (um any team without ghosts or exploud gg)

I'd say my hitta monchan, although vastly outclassed by hitmonlee is at least better than claydol ;_; , and should be at least d-rank if not c-rank

I think that chan should def be at least c-rank

Smogon is incredible at bandwagoning, and it takes a badged user or someone else that seemingly has authority to change anybody's mind when they're already set.

I don't think that lee and chan should be compared except stat-wise (and even then it's a stretch). They play almost completely differently except for the fact that they are both offensive mons that can also spin if they want.

Lee hits things with hjk

Chan goes moreso for longevity. Life orb iron fist drain punch hurts and heals. Ice punch and thunderpunch are super strong with iron fist as well, and they provide far more supereffective coverage than fighting/dark.

The extra physical bulk helps quite a bit; lee generally crumples to a light tap

Does cham get mach punch? That's strong or something.

All in all, it is certainly not a bad mon by any means, and I feel as if it isn't necessarily outclassed to the point where it is useless (not even ranked).

And hitmontop cant do shit. I love seeing it because I know that's it's options include close combat and toxic. You can switch in so much ru stuff into a weak-ass close combat that it is practically a liability.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Chan gets mach punch. It was his signature move in gen 2 tbh

 

[TROP]

lol hitmonchan is a worse gurdurr. Gurdurr does everything you would use chan for (spin chan is shit, there's no reason to use this over Hitmontop or Hitmonlee and it can't really get past any of the spinblockers) with a fuckton of extra bulk, knock off, guts for not getting rekt by burns.

inb4 silly knock off shit when none of the common users can beat gurdurr 1vs1 anyway

 

[GlassGlaceon]

Ok so let me rephrase my argument. What does that stupid worthless useless piece of garbage known as Hitmonchan in english and Ebiwalar in japanese have, that HITMONLEE, Cobalion, Virizion, Hitmontop, Gallade, Pangoro, Hariyama, Gurdurr, Poliwrath and even motherfucking PRIMEAPE can do to justify its use on a team that isn't really using a skirted male Pokemon? My mistake was compare the hitmonbrothers, but now I compare all fighting-types on RU, and want to know why, just WHY I should use this crap over any of them? The answer is none. Any Agility set is outclassed by Hitmonlee, WHICH CAN USE PRIORITY BY ITSELF IN MACH PUNCH. Just Endure/Reversal/Mach Punch or CC/Knock Off is enough, and it deals with Sticky Web teams pretty well. Besides, Cobalion and Virizion are fast enough. Spin sets are completely overshadowed by Hitmontop due to superior bulk and Intimidate from the ladder. AV is complete trash, even AV Gallade outclasses it due to superior special bulk and secondary STAB. SubPunch is just... uggh. Hitmonchan is outclassed on everything it does. Not even by Fighting-types only! It's agility set is horribly outclassed by Rock Polish Rhyperior or Shell Smash Barbaracle if anyone needs a physical sweeper that can boost speed. Hell, I can use Sharpedo! Hitmonchan is outclassed at anything it does. If it was only for Fighting-types, sure, maybe D-, but at everything. And all D Pokemon can be proud of something veeeeeeeery tiny, but still can make them work (except Claydol maybe). Avalugg and Regirock have monstrous physical bulk, Jynx, Klinklang and Carracosta can sweep but need a shitton of support, Regirock never dies and Sliggoo and Gogoat idk no experience with/against those but I'm sure they're better than Hitmonchan.

tl;dr: Hitmonchan is crap. Crappily crappy crap. It's actually an insult to compare crap and Hitmonchan since the former is much more useful. Sorry if I seem harsh but Hitmonchan sucks so much, SO MUCH. I have no experience with I tell right away but I have against and as a spectator, and I can say whenever someone had a Hitmonchan it was like playing a 6-5. Sorry if I seem too salty, but Hitmonchan sucks, like Electivire. Maybe if you had one or two HUNDRED replays against a standard team showing that Hitmonchan isn't just a handicap or death fodder I can swallow my words. Sorry if I seem rude, but it's Hitmoncrap.

Edit: also passion says hitmonchan is a worthless piece of garbage and doesnt even deserve to be in ru but ladder kids dickride it because they are fuckin retarded

lol

this man salty ah over literally the smallest movement

Look ok, you've made a *eck-hem* very strong case here but I retort !

Hitmonlee's Reversal set: Didn't I already tell you why chan was better here? The Difference between Chan and Lee in the Reversalee set is essentially the fact that lee has to die to work. Also if you would for some reason want to use priority on that thing, I don't know why in god's name as you'd get walled to heck and back by fairies, cress, and a bunch of other assorted crap. Give a realistic set because the set you're giving me has more holes than you will when this lil' debate is over. Hitmonchan has the bulk to take a lot of these moves better, and has drain punch to heal off damage done to it throughout the battle.
Now let me list off the pokemon you see commonly running priority:
Fletchinder
Mega-Banette
Gallade
Doublade
Ambipom
Kecleon
Abomasnow-Mega (kills with hail rofl)
Zoroark
Kabutops
Sharpedo
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.
Fogive me if i missed any, but i believe I've covered most of the main ones. (Kecleon was for fun :)) All the ones in bold are the ones monlee can KO with mach punch

ok so proceed to tell me how Hitmonlee can just muscle his way through every other priority user in the tier with no effort WHEN IT CAN'T TOUCH HALF OF THEM. And then you proceed to compare it with the rest of the fighting types in the tier, half of which don't even have the same role as chan, they just have a different role they perform better. (why is primeapae here rofl) Man I'm gonna primarily focus on the agility/LO sets, as i believe they are his most effective.

Ok, let me explain to you what the D-Rank is, as you obviously haven't taken time to read it.

Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time.

Let me re-iterate: Hitmonchan is not a great pokemon in RU, it isn't really standout either. It's use comes along with a ton of support, and it is outclassed by other pokemon.

What I'm saying is hitmonchan's niche is just about as big as the other mons in D's are (or at least better than claydol which is literally trash and if we get nothing out of this involving chan, I request claydol at least move down to E-rank with E-vire and chan)

Would you use regirock over rhyperior? No, regirock is mostly outclassed by this mon for performing pretty much the same role, but it checks moltres better
Now let's switch up a few words here and there
Would you use hitmonchan over Gurdurr? No, hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by this mon for performing pretty mcuh the same role, but it hits harder right off the bat, and doesn't need boosts to accumulate strength.

Let me re-iterate again: Hitmonchan is not a great pokemon, nor did i say it was.

But I believe hitmonchan has a "big" enough niche to take it out of E-Rank and into D-rank.

P.S-(Sorry if you seem harsh? Who do you think I am, a 7-year old who can't take a couple words? rofl)

 

[Ares]

Ok so let me rephrase my argument. What does that stupid worthless useless piece of garbage known as Hitmonchan in english and Ebiwalar in japanese have, that HITMONLEE, Cobalion, Virizion, Hitmontop, Gallade, Pangoro, Hariyama, Gurdurr, Poliwrath and even motherfucking PRIMEAPE can do to justify its use on a team that isn't really using a skirted male Pokemon? My mistake was compare the hitmonbrothers, but now I compare all fighting-types on RU, and want to know why, just WHY I should use this crap over any of them? The answer is none. Any Agility set is outclassed by Hitmonlee, WHICH CAN USE PRIORITY BY ITSELF IN MACH PUNCH. Just Endure/Reversal/Mach Punch or CC/Knock Off is enough, and it deals with Sticky Web teams pretty well. Besides, Cobalion and Virizion are fast enough. Spin sets are completely overshadowed by Hitmontop due to superior bulk and Intimidate from the ladder. AV is complete trash, even AV Gallade outclasses it due to superior special bulk and secondary STAB. SubPunch is just... uggh. Hitmonchan is outclassed on everything it does. Not even by Fighting-types only! It's agility set is horribly outclassed by Rock Polish Rhyperior or Shell Smash Barbaracle if anyone needs a physical sweeper that can boost speed. Hell, I can use Sharpedo! Hitmonchan is outclassed at anything it does. If it was only for Fighting-types, sure, maybe D-, but at everything. And all D Pokemon can be proud of something veeeeeeeery tiny, but still can make them work (except Claydol maybe). Avalugg and Regirock have monstrous physical bulk, Jynx, Klinklang and Carracosta can sweep but need a shitton of support, Regirock never dies and Sliggoo and Gogoat idk no experience with/against those but I'm sure they're better than Hitmonchan.

tl;dr: Hitmonchan is crap. Crappily crappy crap. It's actually an insult to compare crap and Hitmonchan since the former is much more useful. Sorry if I seem harsh but Hitmonchan sucks so much, SO MUCH. I have no experience with I tell right away but I have against and as a spectator, and I can say whenever someone had a Hitmonchan it was like playing a 6-5. Sorry if I seem too salty, but Hitmonchan sucks, like Electivire. Maybe if you had one or two HUNDRED replays against a standard team showing that Hitmonchan isn't just a handicap or death fodder I can swallow my words. Sorry if I seem rude, but it's Hitmoncrap.

Edit: also passion says hitmonchan is a worthless piece of garbage and doesnt even deserve to be in ru but ladder kids dickride it because they are fuckin retarded

So no one has really touched on the life orb chan set. Drain punch and ice punch hurt a lot of things, it still gets walled by ghosts, but if you structure your team right you wont have to worry about that. And the best thing about chan, the thing that sets it above hitmonlee is: Mach Punch + STAB + Life Orb + Iron Fist = Messing Pokes up I cant tell you how many times chan has saved me coming in an OHKOing threats with mach punch that hitmonlee would not have been able to OHKO. Yes for sheer raw power hitmonlee is better, but for the priority chan takes home the cake. Y'all can keep saying it sucks, but underestimate it at your own risk.

 

[SilentVerse]

It's really unfortunate, but the problem with Hitmonchan is just that its really hard to justify using it due to the fact that it doesn't get Knock Off. If Hitmonchan had Knock Off, there would actually be a reason to use it since Ice Punch would let it nail crucial Pokemon that Hitmonlee can't hit (like Gligar and Golbat), and that with a stronger Mach Punch would give it a definite niche that is easily worth D rank. However, because it doesn't get Knock Off, it is completely and utterly walled by Ghosts and Psychics, which means that its access to Ice Punch doesn't even matter that much (I mean, you can pair it with Pursuit I guess? But that's a lot of effort when you could use Hitmonlee to completely bone Ghosts without having to rely on Pursuit). This is because there are so many good Ghost / Psychic Pokemon in RU right now that only being able to hit them with a weak LO Ice Punch is really, really bad. Literally the only thing Hitmonchan has going for it over every other Fighting type in the tier is a stronger Mach Punch, and while it's situationally useful, it isn't really good enough to give Hitmonchan a definite niche when Hitmonlee basically does the whole offensive Fighting type better, and like TROP said, Gurdurr is a better Drain Punch / Mach Punch / Ice Punch user. If (hopefully once) Hitmonlee gets banned, Hitmonchan might be usable and worth moving out of E, but right now I honestly just can't see it. Like, at least the other Pokemon in D have a solid niche (Regirock and Claydol might be bad, but at least it doesn't get boned by HP Grass Moltres like Rhyperior, and Claydol isn't boned by random HP Ice like Gligar) so you can actually justify using them.

 

[Molk]

Would you use hitmonchan over Gurdurr? No, hitmonchan is mostly outclassed by this mon for performing pretty mcuh the same role, but it hits harder right off the bat, and doesn't need boosts to accumulate strength.

Just gonna pop in here and say that the notion that Hitmonchan hits harder right off the bat is incorrect. Gurdurr and Hitmonchan actually have The same exact base attack stat as well as The same ability in the form of Iron Fist. The only real reason Hitmonchan would hit harder right off the bat here is because of Life orb, which technically Gurdurr can hold too (not advising this at all!, realistically Gurdurr should always have Eviolite), not to mention that Gurdurr has a base stat spread thats much more friendly to Drain Punch (extremely bulky, even with the extra physical bulk Hitmonchan has over Hitmonlee, its not taking physical hits well at all, Gurdurr's Eviolite bolstered 85/85/55 bulk means it can take multiple quite easily. Considering this i wouldn't really say Gurdurr needs to boost to accumulate strength, it hits hard enough as is imo So uh....yeah.

So no one has really touched on the life orb chan set. Drain punch and ice punch hurt a lot of things, it still gets walled by ghosts, but if you structure your team right you wont have to worry about that. And the best thing about chan, the thing that sets it above hitmonlee is: Mach Punch + STAB + Life Orb + Iron Fist = Messing Pokes up I cant tell you how many times chan has saved me coming in an OHKOing threats with mach punch that hitmonlee would not have been able to OHKO. Yes for sheer raw power hitmonlee is better, but for the priority chan takes home the cake. Y'all can keep saying it sucks, but underestimate it at your own risk.

Also, looking right here, unless my damage calculator is high or something the difference in damage output between Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee's Mach Punch is way smaller than you make it out to be, calcs below.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 146-173 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 134-160 (49.2 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

This means that against a relatively frail target, the difference between the damage done is really minimal, of course Hitmonchan's max roll is slightly stronger, but assuming average rolls for both the actual damage done isn't too far off, i definitely can't see a difference that small making or breaking a game *quite* that often. Especially when the difference in damage shrinks against bulkier opponents, as can be seen below.

252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 82-97 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 90.6% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 87-105 (33.7 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

edit: [11:49:31 PM] lex: can u tell glassglaceon not to be a rude (BAN ME PLEASE)

 

[Ares]

Just gonna pop in here and say that the notion that Hitmonchan hits harder right off the bat is incorrect. Gurdurr and Hitmonchan actually have The same exact base attack stat as well as The same ability in the form of Iron Fist. The only real reason Hitmonchan would hit harder right off the bat here is because of Life orb, which technically Gurdurr can hold too (not advising this at all!, realistically Gurdurr should always have Eviolite), not to mention that Gurdurr has a base stat spread thats much more friendly to Drain Punch (extremely bulky, even with the extra physical bulk Hitmonchan has over Hitmonlee, its not taking physical hits well at all, Gurdurr's Eviolite bolstered 85/85/55 bulk means it can take multiple quite easily. Considering this i wouldn't really say Gurdurr needs to boost to accumulate strength, it hits hard enough as is imo So uh....yeah.



Also, looking right here, unless my damage calculator is high or something the difference in damage output between Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee's Mach Punch is way smaller than you make it out to be, calcs below.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 146-173 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 134-160 (49.2 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

This means that against a relatively frail target, the difference between the damage done is really minimal, of course Hitmonchan's max roll is slightly stronger, but assuming average rolls for both the actual damage done isn't too far off, i definitely can't see a difference that small making or breaking a game *quite* that often. Especially when the difference in damage shrinks against bulkier opponents, as can be seen below.

252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 82-97 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 90.6% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 87-105 (33.7 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

edit: [11:49:31 PM] lex: can u tell glassglaceon not to be a rude (BAN ME PLEASE)

Its surprising how much that small amount of damage can come down to winning a game or not. It definetly isn't every game where it matters but i would say 1 out of every 5-7 it has helped me at key points in the battle. Hitmonchan isnt overall better than hitmonlee but the ability to hit grass types hard and the 5-10% extra that it gets from mach punch should be more than enough to push it up from E rank to at least C-. The only reason it falls down to E is because when someone wants to use a hitmon they go for Lee over Chan.

 

[New Breed]

Okay I don't even know where to start.. this thread has gone to shit.

lol

this man salty ah over literally the smallest movement

Look ok, you've made a *eck-hem* very strong case here but I retort !


Now let me list off the pokemon you see commonly running priority:
Fletchinder
Mega-Banette
Gallade
Doublade
Ambipom
Kecleon
Abomasnow-Mega (kills with hail rofl)
Zoroark
Kabutops
Sharpedo

Fogive me if i missed any, but i believe I've covered most of the main ones. (Kecleon was for fun :)) All the ones in bold are the ones monlee can KO with mach punch

ok so proceed to tell me how Hitmonlee can just muscle his way through every other priority user in the tier with no effort WHEN IT CAN'T TOUCH HALF OF THEM. And then you proceed to compare it with the rest of the fighting types in the tier, half of which don't even have the same role as chan, they just have a different role they perform better. (why is primeapae here rofl) Man I'm gonna primarily focus on the agility/LO sets, as i believe they are his most effective.

I fail to see how this list is relevant at all when Hitmonchan Mach Punch also loses to the same shit as Hitmonlee does, Molk ninja'd me with the Mach Punch comparison calc but yeah as you can see you may get an Iron Fist boost with Hitmonchan but you also give 15 base attack points which leaves the power difference at only 3-4% in most cases. I can't even give you Thunderpunch as something that can seperate itself from Hitmonlee as the only relevant bulky water that doesn't die to HJK from lee is Slowking, who it just so happens is hit harder by a Knock Off from Hitmonlee than it is from a Thunderpunch from Hitmonchan. So basically the only reason to use Hitmonchan atm is having access to a little bit more bulk, more survivability and Ice Punch for Gligar, while you also give up the ability to hit insanely hard and to spin efficiently in a tier that just so happens to be currently revolving around hazards lol.

Edit: passion rides literally everyone's d he has no place to talk lmao

If you wanna sit there and talk shit about someone that you know absolutely nothing about then i'll be more than happy to play that game, It would be unfair though as I have a pretty good idea of what kind of retarded aids monkey you are by the amazing lack of quality from your posts in this thread. Dickride urself, (BAN ME PLEASE).


:]

 

[gr8astard]

If you wanna sit there and talk shit about someone that you know absolutely nothing about then i'll be more than happy to play that game, It would be unfair though as I have a pretty good idea of what kind of retarded aids monkey you are by the amazing lack of quality from your posts in this thread. Dickride urself, (BAN ME PLEASE).


:]

GOSH New Breed I can feel the passion in your post

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Just a little nitpick, but was not mega-Aboma going up to A- ? Also nominating normal Aboma for D rank/C- rank since it does not give a fuck about specs tinted lens Yanmega spamming Bug buzz. Also base 60 speed allows you to actually outspeed things. Also +2 wood hammer is stronk.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Just a little nitpick, but was not mega-Aboma going up to A- ? Also nominating normal Aboma for D rank/C- rank since it does not give a fuck about specs tinted lens Yanmega spamming Bug buzz. Also base 60 speed allows you to actually outspeed things. Also +2 wood hammer is stronk.

Ppl needs to agree with it first.