Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition

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Aurorus should be C- Rank imo.

I tried this thing for a bit, and to be honest Aurorus is actually very decent. With Rock Polish, Aurorus can become a very cool sweeper, with pretty good Speed after a boost, and it hits really hard with Life Orb Refrigerate Hyper Voice, which also bypasses Substitutes. It also has really good coverage with Earth Power and Freeze-Dry which allow it to hit stuff that Hyper Voice can't crush, which makes Escavalier basically its only counter. It has a really bad typing, but its bulk is pretty decent and it can take hits from weak defensive threats like Golbat and Aromatisse, while it actually makes an interesting Fletchinder check. I think it can maybe take one Boomburst from Exploud too at full health but I'll have to check on that. I think a Specs set is plausible too because it just hits so hard with Refrigerate Hyper Voice, and Aurorus again has pretty decent bulk and good coverage, hitting like a truck and can cause a lot of destruction. It also has Stealth Rock which could be cool too I guess.

This thing still has a lot of flaws, like its many weaknesses, including one to Stealth Rock and Mach Punch, and it's pretty slow without an RP boost, so it needs a lot of support to function. However, if you give this thing the support it needs, it's usually going to pay off. For these reasons I think Aurorus is deserving of getting a ranking here, probably in C- imo.
 
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Unranked ---> B+

Mawile is honestly while its stats show it is really low stat wise it is actually quite the solid pokemon in ru. First lets start off with her movepool. Mawile has alot of options for offensive sets and moves with secondary effects to abuse sheer force with. It also has a few support moves up its sleeve in stealth rock seismic toss knock off toxic taunt for stall breaking and pain split for some form of recovery. Secondly her abilities. Intimidate and sheer force work well on mawile giving it signifigant versatility on both offensive and stall teams alike. Finally it's fairy/steel typing is a great dragalge check and here is one set I feel is signifigant

Mawile@ leftovers
ability intimidate
evs 252 hp 100 defence 152 special defence impish

moves

play rough

knock off/foul play

stealth rock/toxic

pain split/super fang

This is honestly what I feel mawile's standard set in ru will be. Play rough is the main stab move beating down dark types like shiftry and cacturne which mawile is supposed to check. Knock off provides nice utility and removes items like eviolite and leftovers from walls making them easier to beat. Foul play is an alternative option allowing mawile to punish physical setup sweepers that dare boost against it. Stealth rock provides team support and with mawile's typing and ability and the given investment it has quite a few opprotunities to set them up. Toxic catches delphox moltres and other special attackers for a timer pressuring them. Pain split is mawile's only form of recovery and works with it's low hp. Super fang is also useable as it cuts out %50 of a opposing pokemon's health. Speaking of the evs the evs given avoid a 2hko from dragalge after stealth rocks as shown here: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 154 SpD Mawile: 226-266 (74.3 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Mawile@ life orb
ability sheer force
evs 252 attack 252 speed jolly

moves

swords dance

play rough

crunch/sucker punch

fire fang

This is another set I feel is effective vs stall and offense IF sucker punch is chosen. Swords dance boosts mawile's modest attack of 85 to levels in which it threatens stall with powerful attacks and something offense has trouble switching into and stopping if sucker punch is chosen. Play rough is the fairy stab of choice doing a number to many things not resistant to it and gets a sheer force boost. Crunch is the 2nd move on the set also getting a nice sheer force boost and provides near perfect coverage in tandem with play rough. Sucker punch is another option while not getting a sheer force boost it does give mawile much needed priority to bypass it's speed. Fire fang rounds out the coverage moves nicely and does a number to steel types and opposing mawile. The evs are maxed out in attack and speed with a jolly nature to outspeed defensive gligar and cresselia(subcm cant do anything to mawile so it really doesn't care not outspeeding it). Ice punch thunder punch iron head rock slide are all other options to hit other targets but the main moves are tough to give up
 
I don't see Mawile as a B+ rank Pokemon at all. Now, I'll grant you that stats do not always tell the story about a Pokemon, or else Talonflame wouldn't be OU while Regigigas sits in PU or FU or God knows where. But when you look at Mawile, you'll see a Pokemon that struggles to deal damage in general, cannot deal with Defog users like Gligar 1-1 (and therefore will not reliably keep up its own Rocks), and will not live for as long as you'd like without a SIGNIFICANT amount of support you'd be better off giving to another defensive Fairy, such as Granbull. It does, after all, lack reliable recovery and certainly does not have the bulk to pull off some janky RestTalk set.

Mawile's mediocre 50 / 85 / 55 bulk make it very reliant on Intimidate and its excellent Steel / Fairy typing to take hits. Unfortunately, 50 / 85 physical bulk isn't enough to invest anywhere else and still be able to handle strong attackers from that spectrum, so mixed attackers will have a field day with this and Mawile sadly cannot handle any special attackers. Mawile also has 4MSS - it wants to run SR / Toxic / Iron Head / Protect / Play Rough / Pain Split (hey, it's recovery!) and can only choose four of those -- so you'll probably have to give up either Protect or Pain Split and one its attacking moves, making it easy to switch into and unable to Toxic stall (though it's still a good user of the move as it lures in Gligar and Moltres). There's also the lack of Speed and any offensive prowess, so Mawile will practically never catch your opponent off-guard. Predictability is OK if you're REALLY good at what you do (XY Doublade for example), but not if you're aggressively mediocre to begin with. Perhaps the most glaring issue is the inability to take physical hits well from stuff that it should be walling, which in conjunction with its lack of reliable recovery and Speed means that it'll be screaming for Alomomola's or Aromatisse's help throughout the match. Consider the following calcs:

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 161-192 (53.1 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 156-185 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 93-109 (30.6 - 35.9%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (GL after a Hone Claws)
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 107-126 (35.3 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 185-218 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 182-216 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


And as for special attackers, well...

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragalge Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mawile: 244-289 (80.5 - 95.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mawile: 159-188 (52.4 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Luvdisc Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mawile: 235-277 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

I factored in Intimidate and at best, it is 3HKOed by practically every relevant physical attacker in the tier barring Doublade, which sets up on you unless you carry Foul Play. You also lose to Substitute users such as Bulk Up Braviary and since this is likely your Stealth Rock setter, you will need to find a free turn to get that up. Good Luck with that n__n. B+ is way too high for it, the typing and access to SR might make it barely viable but I'd go no higher than C- for the time being. It's not bulky enough to be used on stall and obviously doesn't fit on offense, so you're stuck trying to make it work on balance.


Other thoughts: I'm cool with moving Doublade to A-, it's still a very good Pokemon that checks a lot and every team needs a stop to, but most teams have multiple checks to it, and Doublade's lack of powerful STAB moves prevents it from wearing down its own checks on the switch as well it would like. Mega Pidgeot's Heat Wave, Pangoro's significant buff, Houndoom, and Camerupt are things Doublade must deal with, and Fletchinder / Gligar . etc are not going anywhere. I also like Clawitzer to a point where I'd consider it for mid-B, apart from its Mega Launcher-boosted moves, it also gets Ice Beam to smack Dragalge and Amoonguss with for good damage and Scald to fish for burns vs. the VERY few things that are not outright 2HKO'd by it. It also has enough bulk to tank strong neutral hits from offensively-oriented Pokemon (thinking LO Pangoro's Knock Off here) and OHKO back with the appropriate move. The bland typing and general lack of bulk and Speed are drawbacks that prevent it from being more common, but the coverage and power make it B rank in my eyes. I also like Tauros a little more than most people do, LO and Sheer Force- boosted Rock Climb hurts and Earthquake does adequate damage to most Steel-types, but the quality of the physical walls in the tier (Alomomola / Gligar) make it difficult to execute sometimes. I can still see it as a C+ mon with how well it matches up vs. offense but it's not great.
 
Druddigon B+ ---> A-


This monster just doesn't really seem like a B+ ranked Pokemon. It's excellent bulk and typing allows it to run various sets, and I'll list the ones I feel are most effective at the moment:

-The Rocky Helmet Rough Skin Defensive Variant. Can also set up rocks, punishes physical attackers greatly, and it's bulk allows it to take several hits before going on. Not to mention it's access to a 100% Paralysis move only resisted by Ghost Types, as well as phazing in the form of Dragon Tail or Roar.

-Assault Vest. Due to it's typing that grants it 4 resistances to some of the most prevalent special attack types, it can use Assault Vest well as it also has a plethora of powerful moves from which to choose from. Dragon STAB, priority in the form of Sucker Punch, Gunk Shot to handle fairies, as well as the 4th slot often filled with Earthquake or Fire Punch to decimate would be counters. Mold Breaker Earthquake also allows it to hit Levitating foes such as Bronzong.

-Wallbreaking Choice Band. With the ole Band set, Druddigon can smash through walls with ease as with the right prediction, almost nothing can withstand it's onslaught. Dragon STAB, Gunk Shot, Sucker Punch and Earthquake/Fire Punch are mandatory moves, and although being locked into Sucker Punch isn't the most optimal situation, it's still an excellent option to have on hand. Sheer Force boosts the power of Gunk Shot & Fire Punch and again, Mold Breaker Earthquake allows it to hit Levitating foes.

-Life Orb Mixxed set. Whilst this is much more uncommon, it's still a quite effective one. With moves such as Gunk Shot and Flamethrower backed by the rare but powerful combination of Sheer Force + LO, this set aims to lure would be checks such as Ferroseed, Escavalier or fairies like Whimsicott/Aromatisse and outright destroy them.

-Trick Room Attacker: Usually with a Life Orb/Choice Band, Druddigon can sweep through the majority of the metagame under Trick Room, thanks to it's pitiful speed.

Basically Druddigon is just an excellent Pokemon to have right now. It's similar to Conkeldurr back in OU that you don't really build a team around Druddigon, you could fit it in almost any team. Whether it be through setting up hazards and phazing enemies as a physical wall, demolishing bulky Pokemon as a wall breaker, or even acting as a dedicated Trick Room sweeper, he can do nearly anything. It's also not that easy to predict what set Druddigon will run from team preview, and predicting him to set up Rocks whilst in reality he goes for the offense can be very punishing.

Of course, he still has it's downsides through it's weaknesses to Dragon, Ice and Fairies, as well as a lack of recovery and being easily worn down. Nevertheless, I feel like he's a very powerful Pokemon right now, and is simply put a very low risk and high reward one to use.
 
The thing with Druddigon is that it's not really the best rock setter right now. Rhyperior is easier to fit onto teams, helps check birds, and has significantly more bulk. Support Cobalion is also running around everywhere and is great because of its access to Taunt and Volt Switch. I can't really say much about the Assault Vest set because I've never used it but the Banded set is outclassed by Tyrantrum imo. Tyrantrum now has access to Outrage which was really the thing Drud had over Tryantrum as a wallbreaker in XY. Tyrantrum is significantly faster than Drud and gets access stab Stone Edge. The speed really helps Tyrantrum because it can 2hko spdef Mola(after rocks) without having to worry about being burned. Druddigon's only real niche right now is the sheer force offensive set. Even with that being said I really don't think Druddigon has any reason to be moved up.
 
Ajna said:
The thing with Druddigon is that it's not really the best rock setter right now. Rhyperior is easier to fit onto teams, helps check birds, and has significantly more bulk. Support Cobalion is also running around everywhere and is great because of its access to Taunt and Volt Switch. I can't really say much about the Assault Vest set because I've never used it but the Banded set is outclassed by Tyrantrum imo. Tyrantrum now has access to Outrage which was really the thing Drud had over Tryantrum as a wallbreaker in XY. Tyrantrum is significantly faster than Drud and gets access stab Stone Edge. The speed really helps Tyrantrum because it can 2hko spdef Mola(after rocks) without having to worry about being burned. Druddigon's only real niche right now is the sheer force offensive set. Even with that being said I really don't think Druddigon has any reason to be moved up.
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Druddigon and Tyrantrum, other than sharing a similar role as a Dragon type wall breaker, doesn't really have that much in common. Not to mention it doesn't get Gunk Shot, which is crucial for getting past fairies. Tyrantrum's also gives it extra vulnerability to common attacking types such as Water, Grass, Fighting and Ground, whilst also making it weak to nearly all forms of priority other than Quick Attack/Priority Gale Wings.

When you see a Tyrantrum on team preview, you automatically now that he's already going to either be a set up sweeper, a wall breaker or a revenge killer with a scarfed attached. Because that's really the only roles he can fulfill well. Whereas Druddigon can be a powerful defensive or offensive presence. The physically defensive set shouldn't be underestimated as it punishes physical attackers much harder than Cobalion and isn't weak either to common attacking physical types such as Fire/Fight/Ground. And unlike Cobalion, it can spread status and has access to 2 forms of phazing. Whilst admittedly Druddigon is facing competition for the wall breaking role with Tyrantrum, he maintains the niche of having less weaknesses, and possessing a much more reliable way of breaking fairies. And I didn't mean for my earlier post to imply that setting up Rocks was the most important thing for Druddigon, I'm just putting it there as an extra thing that he is capable of, but really shouldn't be the main thing to focus on. His defensive set would already usually run Glare, Dragon Tail/Roar, Dragon Claw, Gunk Shot/Fire Punch/Sucker Punch to maintain offensiveness in a defensive role.
 
Froppe said:
Druddigon and Tyrantrum, other than sharing a similar role as a Dragon type wall breaker, doesn't really have that much in common. Not to mention it doesn't get Gunk Shot, which is crucial for getting past fairies. Tyrantrum's also gives it extra vulnerability to common attacking types such as Water, Grass, Fighting and Ground, whilst also making it weak to nearly all forms of priority other than Quick Attack/Priority Gale Wings.

When you see a Tyrantrum on team preview, you automatically now that he's already going to either be a set up sweeper, a wall breaker or a revenge killer with a scarfed attached. Because that's really the only roles he can fulfill well. Whereas Druddigon can be a powerful defensive or offensive presence. The physically defensive set shouldn't be underestimated as it punishes physical attackers much harder than Cobalion and isn't weak either to common attacking physical types such as Fire/Fight/Ground. And unlike Cobalion, it can spread status and has access to 2 forms of phazing. Whilst admittedly Druddigon is facing competition for the wall breaking role with Tyrantrum, he maintains the niche of having less weaknesses, and possessing a much more reliable way of breaking fairies. And I didn't mean for my earlier post to imply that setting up Rocks was the most important thing for Druddigon, I'm just putting it there as an extra thing that he is capable of, but really shouldn't be the main thing to focus on. His defensive set would already usually run Glare, Dragon Tail/Roar, Dragon Claw, Gunk Shot/Fire Punch/Sucker Punch to maintain offensiveness in a defensive role.
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All those things you are saying don't really warrant Druddigon getting moved up to A-. And even if it's not really used Cobalion does get access to T-Wave. Also as a wallbreaker you don't want to be switching into to many attacks in the first place so Tyrantrum's weakness don't really matter if it's assuming a wall breaking role. That being said what do you guys think about Quagsire? In my opinion it's a great check to Fletch and other set up sweepers that I can't think of right now because I'm so tired lol. Any thoughts?
 
Ajna said:
All those things you are saying don't really warrant Druddigon getting moved up to A-. And even if it's not really used Cobalion does get access to T-Wave. Also as a wallbreaker you don't want to be switching into to many attacks in the first place so Tyrantrum's weakness don't really matter if it's assuming a wall breaking role. That being said what do you guys think about Quagsire? In my opinion it's a great check to Fletch and other set up sweepers that I can't think of right now because I'm so tired lol. Any thoughts?
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Okay, there's nothing there for me to argue...

In regard to Quagsire, I've used him several times back when he was OU during XY, and he IS very effective at walling physical based set up sweepers such as Mega Gyarados, Zard X, Dragonite etc. I haven't really kept up with the OU metagame lately, and I'm still wondering how he fell down to RU. Admittedly however, Quagsire doesn't really have the best of defenses and bulk, and is extremely susceptible to special based attacks. The overall frequent usage of Mega Sceptile, Rotom-M, Amoonguss, Lilligant, as well as the occasional Mega Snow will definitely limit overall usage of Quagsire. I don't except him to fall into NU any time soon though, I hope so at least. In any case he still has a good defensive typing and there honestly isn't that much in RU in terms of physically offensive Pokemon that would do SE or heavy damage to him. Aside from the mixed Emboar packing GK, all physical variants of Virizion of course and CB Druddigon which 2HKOs 252/252 Quagsire on the switch and doesn't have to fear Ice Beam since it only has a 0.8% chance to 3HKO 236/0 variants of him, whilst 252/4 Tyrantrum is cleanly 2HKOed by Earth Power (SR not included in any of the calcs).
 
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Druddigon: I've actually said this on a few occasions, but Tyrantrum kind of outclasses it now. I mean, unless you need a Dragon with Rocks, special bulk, and / or priority, there is little reason to use Druddigon over Tyrantrum. Tyrant can nail Steels like Druddigon. It's much faster, meaning it beats balanced teams more reliably. It has a secondary STAB if Outrage isn't safe. Tyrantrum also has the ability to be a setup sweeper with Rock Polish, (fuck Dragon Dance) something Druddigon simply can't do. To top it all off, no physical wall is safe from Tyrantrum thanks to Ice Fang ruining Gligar and Outrage overpowering the rest on most occasions. That said, Drudd is a much better Rocks setter, has a better defensive typing, and much more special bulk than Tyrantrum. If anything, I'd say drop Drudd to B since I feel Tyrant is better right now, but I won't go that far yet.
 
EonX said:
Druddigon: I've actually said this on a few occasions, but Tyrantrum kind of outclasses it now. I mean, unless you need a Dragon with Rocks, special bulk, and / or priority, there is little reason to use Druddigon over Tyrantrum. Tyrant can nail Steels like Druddigon. It's much faster, meaning it beats balanced teams more reliably. It has a secondary STAB if Outrage isn't safe. Tyrantrum also has the ability to be a setup sweeper with Rock Polish, (fuck Dragon Dance) something Druddigon simply can't do. To top it all off, no physical wall is safe from Tyrantrum thanks to Ice Fang ruining Gligar and Outrage overpowering the rest on most occasions. That said, Drudd is a much better Rocks setter, has a better defensive typing, and much more special bulk than Tyrantrum. If anything, I'd say drop Drudd to B since I feel Tyrant is better right now, but I won't go that far yet.
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I have acknowledged that Tyrantrum has the capability of being a set up sweeper, something that Druddigon doesn't have. However I was trying to argue more about how Druddigon can run a variety of different sets very effectively, making it more unpredictable from team preview. It may be a little slow, but it's EVs can be manipulated to still outspeed important walls in RU such as Tangrowth for example, and it has priority Sucker Punch to combat HO teams. But that doesn't matter much anymore, as it seems like Druddigon won't be moving up to A for the moment.

Unrelated but back to Tyrantrum, hoping to finally see it getting Rock Head and see him being used similar to CB Aggron in the past 2 Gens, albeit with the capability of setting up better thanks to a higher speed stat, a (slightly) higher attack stat, well as the option of DDance over Rock Polish (because fuck Rock Polish) should the need arises.
 
EonX said:
Druddigon: I've actually said this on a few occasions, but Tyrantrum kind of outclasses it now. I mean, unless you need a Dragon with Rocks, special bulk, and / or priority, there is little reason to use Druddigon over Tyrantrum.
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Actually, a not of people have realized it yet, but both of the fossil Pokemon got Stealth Rock in ORAS, meaning Tyrantrum can set them up too if need be. Not saying he's necessarily the better user of the move, but it is worth noting.

EDIT: NVM Tyrantrum has had Stealth Rock by level-up ever since XY, what the heck am I saying :P
 
alrighty, gonna make a few minor updates now :]

Aurorus added to C- rank
Mawile added to D rank
Quagsire added to B rank

I'm unsure on where to put Druddigon but for the most part i agree with the arguments brought up against it moving up (competition from Tyrantrum being a big one now that it has Outrage), so i'm gonna leave it alone for now. I'm also still really really unsure on where to put Doublade, atomicllamas brought up some pretty good points on why it should stay where it is in A rank, but on the other hand the addition of Quagsire to the tier might make moving it down justified if it becomes a big thing.

As for the new drops, i felt that these initial ranks were a pretty good start. Quagsire seems to fit the definition of B rank pretty well to me (it has a really really cool niche in stopping a bunch of set up sweepers such as SD Doublade, SD Fletchinder, Belly Drum Slurpuff, SD Cobalion, and SD Drapion, but competition from other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and a lack of overall bulk that means stronger physical attackers can still muscle through it kinda hold it back from going higher imo), and i'm still heavily questioning the viability of Mawile in the metagame at all (its typing, abilities, and movepool are all great, but those base stats are just *so* bad it might not even matter in the end, although i'd be totally open to moving it either up or down depending on everyone else's experiences with it, just as long as you provide proof that it either works well or it doesn't).

As for Pokemon i'd like some more discussion on, i'd really like to know if you guys think the initial ranks for Quagsire and Mawile are accurate or not (B rank and D rank, respectively), and i'd also like to see a bit of discussion on whether Golbat should be moved up to B+ rank or not, a proposal that was brought up before but didn't garner any discussion at all. For your convienence i'll quote the proposal here so you guys can read through it and tell me what you think :). I'll also be talking to people on the RU Council and the RU QC team about what to do on Doublade and Mega Pidgeot, two pokemon that have been brought up quite a few times up until now.

Can we push Golbat to B+ now, by the way? It's still really good for defensive and even balance teams. It helps them check threats like Pangoro, Houndoom, Mega Sceptile, Moltres, Dragalge... Cmon man. Alright, reliance on Eviolite and Rocks to be away to fully do it's job holds it somewhat back, but it''s not like it's an alpha-omega issue. Bravebird is a strong move for a defensive mon, it's got reliable recovery, it's got a wide movepool which you can tinker to your needs (Taunt if you want to beat opposing Stall more easily, Defog if you have no other hazard remover, Toxic so that SubTox Moltres cries, Super Fang for those Bulky Offense/stall teams +++). Poison/Flying is also a good typing, it sits at a good speed tier for a defensive mon (it needs little speedcreep to take on various mons like Jolly Panda, like 84 EVs) and it's all-round a good mon. And I think the ORAS meta is kind to it too.
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Lastly, Serperior will be added to new pkmn rank starting tommorow since Contrary is being released then :).
 
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Golbat

I was actually going to make this nom again, but yeah Golbat moving up is long overdue. It just gained so many things in oras, and can check huge portion of the tier, and has reliable recovery to check these threats thought the course of a match. First of all, the physically defensive variant is perhaps one of the only "reliable" switch-ins to Pangoro because it can outspeed and threaten to KO with BB while not getting boned by a coverage move, which in itself is amazing because Pangoro is one of the largest threats atm. Specially defensive spreads can reliably check the biggest offensive threats the tier in Mega Sceptile, Mega Pidgeot bar confusion hax, scarf Moltres, Dragalge, and soon to be Serperior. Both spreads also stop mono fairy cresselia cold. Did I mention, it also defogs? Yeah, that's a huge amount of team support in one slot. Also, unlike Gligar, it can reliably Defog against Bronzong, one of the most common rock setters, because it is immune to toxic. It can also run stuff like super fang to get huge chip damage into Bronzong and Registeel, huge for teams struggling with steels, and can also u-turn like Gligar to gain momentum. Yeah, it loses to some stuff like Rhyperior, Doublade, and SD Drapion, but the amount of stuff it checks is insane. Just looking at the viability rankings, it checks literally almost the entire S - A+ ranks alone. I personally think it should be A- , but I guess we can take it up one step at a time.
 
Serperior to C+/B-/B rank- I have used Serperior for a couple of battles and it was pretty nice, but definetely not as good as people thought when its HA was announced. Its speed is really decent and contrary with leaf storm gives it fast set up. However Serperior has exact same problem as M Pidgeot by having only 3 usable moves (leaf storm, d pulse and HP). The 4th move slot could be taunt, glare, synthesis, screens, toxic etc. which can sometimes be nice. It has bad sp. attack and sometimes it struggles even at +2. Here is a few examples:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 191-226 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 281-333 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 309-367 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 190-226 (58.6 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 278-328 (89.1 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-C: 221-263 (91.7 - 109.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Bulk is also not the best so it can't really take a hit and grass typing doesn't help in that aspect. I'm really undecided about the rank but I think that it should be somewhere around these.
 
Banan123 said:
Serperior to C+/B-/B rank- I have used Serperior for a couple of battles and it was pretty nice, but definetely not as good as people thought when its HA was announced. Its speed is really decent and contrary with leaf storm gives it fast set up. However Serperior has exact same problem as M Pidgeot by having only 3 usable moves (leaf storm, d pulse and HP). The 4th move slot could be taunt, glare, synthesis, screens, toxic etc. which can sometimes be nice. It has bad sp. attack and sometimes it struggles even at +2. Here is a few examples:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 191-226 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 281-333 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 309-367 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 190-226 (58.6 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 278-328 (89.1 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-C: 221-263 (91.7 - 109.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Bulk is also not the best so it can't really take a hit and grass typing doesn't help in that aspect. I'm really undecided about the rank but I think that it should be somewhere around these.
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I'm not well versed with Seperior, but if you include rocks in those calcs, most of them turn into high chances to OHKOs which is very impressive and this is not including prior Leaf Storm damage on the switch-in.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 191-226 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 281-333 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 309-367 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 278-328 (89.1 - 105.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's actual problem is likely competition from Sceptile. I wouldn't know where to rank it, but it looks to be worth at least B+.
 
I've used grass snake for about twenty games and it's clear that it's excellent.

This is the set I've been using and I'm sure most people have used a variant of this:

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

This thing makes anything frail, grass weak, on low health or below base 113 speed a liability, with a few exceptions of course. Whereas most set up mons have to find an opportunity where the opponent is unable to much because set up moves are generally turns where you are pretty vulnerable - If you're not attacking and killing something, it's going to be trying to kill you. That's why serp's set up is so ridiculous. Power up punch for Kangaskhan was seen as crazy because it dealt decent damage as well as boosting its attack. This meant that often you'd be able to score a KO and not risk getting hit back with anything. The difference here is that serp's PuP equivalent is a 130 base power STAB move and also the main move you rely on to do damage. This set up move scores far more KOs than PuP did meaning that in a lot of situations you can keep your serp relatively healthy while also boosting your spa to stupid levels.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 192-227 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clawitzer Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 175-208 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 175-207 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 383-452 (112.3 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 382-450 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see from the calcs, Serp's main STAB move is more powerful than any of these other hard hitters most common damage dealing attacks and after one leaf storm, it's more powerful than the most powerful wallbreaker in the tier. What's worse is that saccing a mon is not an option as leaf storm provides the snowball effect that moxie does... But better.

Its speed tier is huge for this things effectiveness. In the whole tier, there are 6 mons that naturally outspeed it... one of them is ambipom. This allows it to pose as a massive threat to offensive teams which rely on checking things by outspeeding and killing them. The only mon which avoids an ohko after a boost from one of serps moves after rocks and that can fit on hyper offensive teams is virizion - a mon which is heavily out of favour right now.

Despite this, there are obvious things which hold it back. The first is its lack of decent coverage moves. Outside of grass moves, Serp's only special attacking moves are dragon pulse and hidden power. This means that it's difficult to damage anything which resists its grass move before you manage to get a boost. A +2 dragon pulse or hidden power does really poor damage to anything neutral (leaf storm is actually more powerful against 2x resists) and often it can limit your sweep.

The main concern comes from offensive mons which are capable of revenge killing serp. Mons like moltres, sceptile, mega pidgeot (only once it's evolved) and fletchinder. Any of these can bring a full stop to Serp.
However its wallbreaker-like power before setting up means that it can remain a threat without having to go on a full sweep.
Also, the fact that serp actually has really decent bulk for an offensive mon means that any faster mons are actually unable to.consistently revenge.

I think its pretty obvious from this post that I think serp should either be high A rank or S rank (I'm against placing it there immediately). Its ability to grab boosts while wrecking shit in front of it stupid. It can replenish lo damage as it goes and its really fast so good luck revenging.

I also wanna nominate eel for a higher rank because its so sick right now but I've spent too long talking about serp so I'll leave that for another time/someone else.
 
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I don't see why Serperior shouldn't be in S rank from the get-go. It's consistent vs just about everything, has very few flaws, if any, that are worth noting, and best of all, it isn't even a Mega and thus has little-to-no opportunity cost towards using it. The only flaws Serperior really has imo are: inability to hit hard straight off the bat, which isn't a huge issue to begin with because it's not exactly difficult to set up with a 130 BP STAB and having piss-weak coverage moves which makes it difficult to muscle past more dedicated checks such as Golbat or Amoonguss. The latter, however, is what keeps Serperior from being so hideously broken though!

Between having two viable sets, both capable of beating a number of select checks, Serperior has very few Pokemon that can always beat it, and even then, Serperior has access to Knock Off to cripple just about everything that it can't beat on its own anyways. This Pokemon is incredible, very meta-defining, and though it just arrived, you can already feel its impact by the way you modify/build your teams all of a sudden.

I'd also be in favor of dropping Mega Sceptile to A+ just because Serperior can take on its special attacking role for the most part without taking up a Mega Slot. Swords Dance is still superb, but I don't think it's that difficult to deal with, and the presence of Serperior in general makes Mega Sceptile's usual checks a lot more common.
 
Radio_Active said:
I think Sigilyph should be moved from Unranked to A-. Seriously, it can setup Cosmic Powers on even Tyranitar if its burnt.
Click to expand...
Tyranitar is in OU, so its irrelevant. And Sigilyph is in B- Rank, so if you want to warrant a rise, you have to go more into detail than it can set up on a burnt psychical attacker.
 
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