I would pick Tauros' Rock Climb, since Tauros is a better pokemon
Edit: Ninjad, sorry about that
Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition
- Thread starter Molk
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Edit: Ninjad, sorry about that
Ambipom is not outclassed by Tauros. They have different coverage (EdgeQuake vs. Dark + Fighting) and hit different major threats in OU. Tauros can go mixed with Fire Blast, Ambipom can go mixed with Grass Knot or Technician-boosted Hidden Power.
I'll shut up about Ambipom if it gets put in D rank. It doesn't deserve E just because scrubs use that awful "scouting" set.
This is a thread for RU not OU, I'm not trying to continue a discussion that will obviously go nowhere, just saying
That was a typo, sorry. I meant RU. Give me a few minutes and I'll run some calcs with Tauros, Ambipom, and the top 10 Pokemon in RU as per the 1760 stats.
It's simply inferior to anything in D-Rank and should not be used ever when other Pokémon are actually salvageable, unlike crap monkey. Drop the subject and move on, so that the thread doesn't get cluttered. Thanks.
EDIT:
It's even in the shape of an E when flipped. Look everyone, we got the poster boy for E-Rank right here!
Okay. This will be my final post.
Against Cobalion, Ambipom wins.
Against Doublade, Tauros wins. Ambipom can only 2HKO with Choice Band and Beat Up.
Against Hitmonlee, both can survive a Mach Punch and 1HKO back.
Against Pangoro: Neither can 1HKO, but Ambipom's Low Kick outdamages Tauros' Rock Climb.
Against Alomomola: Cinccino wins because Tauros and Ambipom can't touch Alomomola.
Against Sceptile: lol Focus Blast
Against Rhyperior: Both have to go mixed to touch it, but Ambipom's Grass Knot outdamages Tauros' Surf.
Against Bronzong: Ambipom does better with Levitate variants, and Tauros with Heatproof.
Against Cresselia: Ambipom needs a Band and Beat Up to 2HKO, but Tauros can never 2HKO it.
Against Slowking: Both do roughly the same damage. Tauros needs Rock Climb, Ambipom needs Double Edge or Knock Off.
Against Steelix: Tauros wins unless you want to spare the moveslot on Ambipom for Hidden Power Fire.
Against Spiritomb: Ambipom wins.
I still do not see why one should be C rank and the other E, but I'll drop it.
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The next person that posts about Ambipom is getting murdered infracted.
Ambipom is bad, and mostly outclassed by Cinccino, (both are pretty shitty but at least Cinccino can screw over Omastar HO among other things, C+ is a pretty mediocre rank too). NP sets are outclassed by Persian (literally its outclassed by an Pokemon in FU that isn't ranked in this thread, THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING). Usage has never been a good argument for viability. Also @ above, Tauros is a C rank Pokemon and that was mostly because it could actually lure important threats and deal with them such as Doublade (Fire Blast) and Gligar (RIP, Ice Beam). C-rank pokemon aren't good anyways!
It would be useful, since now we have a new meta game, if people would focus on more important mons (preferably those B rank or higher, or those that should be B rank or higher).
Edit: Also added Medicham to unranked Pokemon rank :]
Ambipom is bad, and mostly outclassed by Cinccino, (both are pretty shitty but at least Cinccino can screw over Omastar HO among other things, C+ is a pretty mediocre rank too). NP sets are outclassed by Persian (literally its outclassed by an Pokemon in FU that isn't ranked in this thread, THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING). Usage has never been a good argument for viability. Also @ above, Tauros is a C rank Pokemon and that was mostly because it could actually lure important threats and deal with them such as Doublade (Fire Blast) and Gligar (RIP, Ice Beam). C-rank pokemon aren't good anyways!
It would be useful, since now we have a new meta game, if people would focus on more important mons (preferably those B rank or higher, or those that should be B rank or higher).
Edit: Also added Medicham to unranked Pokemon rank :]
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WTF Llamas, Medicham didn't drop, I just checked. Or am I missing something?
I think Hitmonlee could move up to A+ rank and Emboar could move up to A/A+ rank. They are Fighting-types that are nearly impossible to switch into after Gligar was moved up. They both have priority with Mach Punch and/or Sucker Punch and Hitmonlee has Rapid Spin. Emboar can just spam Banded Flare Blitz 90% of the time while Hitmonlee is just overall really useful.
Hitmontop should also probably rise to B+ rank, it's like one of the only defensive counters to Panda and has the added benefit of being a cool Spinner with Foresight for stall.
Clawitzer is really underated IMO and I think it could rise to B rank, maybe Delphox too but I haven't actually used that one personally. Claw because Scald is op and good at breaking down walls like Golbat, and its coverage is awesome for Steels and bulky Psychics. Its pure water typing and average bulk is kinda meh, but it's good at what it does. I feel like Delphox is low on the rankings because Houndoom was predicted to be used a lot, but I don't see it /that/ much anymore. Just seems better than others in B- rank like Quagsire and Audino.
Woo, feels good to post.
Hitmontop should also probably rise to B+ rank, it's like one of the only defensive counters to Panda and has the added benefit of being a cool Spinner with Foresight for stall.
Clawitzer is really underated IMO and I think it could rise to B rank, maybe Delphox too but I haven't actually used that one personally. Claw because Scald is op and good at breaking down walls like Golbat, and its coverage is awesome for Steels and bulky Psychics. Its pure water typing and average bulk is kinda meh, but it's good at what it does. I feel like Delphox is low on the rankings because Houndoom was predicted to be used a lot, but I don't see it /that/ much anymore. Just seems better than others in B- rank like Quagsire and Audino.
Woo, feels good to post.
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Seconding Emboar. Fire/Fighting is just a really good type to be right now, especially with a boosted Wild Charge as backup.
One Pokemon I'm curious about is Braviary. It's going to be tougher to abuse Defiant when the top Defogger just kissed RU goodbye, but it also loves Fighting types rising in usage.
One Pokemon I'm curious about is Braviary. It's going to be tougher to abuse Defiant when the top Defogger just kissed RU goodbye, but it also loves Fighting types rising in usage.
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Braviary's best (and only set that should be used imo) is Sub Bulk Up, which is great for stallbreaking. However, stall is more than prepared for it with things like Curse Registeel, Toxic Infiltrator Golbat, Curse Mega Steelix, etc. I dont honestly think it is as good as it was in XY, where stall / balance wasn't as prepared for it.
Speaking of Megas, does the departure of two of them raise the viability of the remaining 6? I've personally never had trouble fitting a Mega on my RU team, but that might not be true for everyone else.
Technically, yes, as it decreased the opportunity cost of using them because before, Pidgeot and Sceptile were the go-to megas and you were at somewhat of a disadvantage by not using them. People recently realized that Steelix is good, and the others are solid as well. Mega Abomasnow has been and always will be a massive threat.
Totally approving Clawitzer's nomination to B Rank. It could even get to B+ Rank, considering Grass types are now more rare than before due to the ban and movement of 2 main grass type, which benefits for Clawitzer a lot. He also doesn't have to face the rough competition with Dragalge as a wallbreaker.
Bringing again Exploud to B, for being less effective as a wallbreaker because of the rise of Escavalier, and to an extent Bronzong ( Who will soon be replaced by Registeel who's even more threatening to Exploud ) and basically a pokemon with too much flaws to get in the same rank as Whimsicott, Dugtrio or Druddigon.
Rotom-Mow for B+: Mega Sceptile is gone. It represented for Rotom Mow a pain, as it could replace him, and be a free switch into all of Rotom Mow's attacks for an offensive team. Rotom Mow can finally get back his role of the main Special Grass attacker in the tier, and it's doing it pretty well. Oh and Rotom Mow enjoyed the ban another easy switch into his attacks being Dragalge.
Togetic for B-/lower: NastyPass lost its main receiver: Pidgeot Mega. Since it's the only legitimate reason for the ranking of Togetic, it would be logical to see him drop.
Medicham for C+ Rank: I don't see Medicham being very good in the tier. His lack of Knock Off is a pain to the ass and consequently, he has much safers switch ins than a pokemon like Sawk would just because of this lack of Knock Off, such as Cresselia or Doublade. It's also super frail & its speed isn't exceptional either.
Bringing again Exploud to B, for being less effective as a wallbreaker because of the rise of Escavalier, and to an extent Bronzong ( Who will soon be replaced by Registeel who's even more threatening to Exploud ) and basically a pokemon with too much flaws to get in the same rank as Whimsicott, Dugtrio or Druddigon.
Rotom-Mow for B+: Mega Sceptile is gone. It represented for Rotom Mow a pain, as it could replace him, and be a free switch into all of Rotom Mow's attacks for an offensive team. Rotom Mow can finally get back his role of the main Special Grass attacker in the tier, and it's doing it pretty well. Oh and Rotom Mow enjoyed the ban another easy switch into his attacks being Dragalge.
Togetic for B-/lower: NastyPass lost its main receiver: Pidgeot Mega. Since it's the only legitimate reason for the ranking of Togetic, it would be logical to see him drop.
Medicham for C+ Rank: I don't see Medicham being very good in the tier. His lack of Knock Off is a pain to the ass and consequently, he has much safers switch ins than a pokemon like Sawk would just because of this lack of Knock Off, such as Cresselia or Doublade. It's also super frail & its speed isn't exceptional either.
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I feel as a result of recent tier shifts and the departure of Mega Pidgeot and Gligar to UU, it seems as though the RU tier will have a rise in the usage of strong Fighting types.
Because of these two Pokemon leaving and the probable rise of strong Fighting type Pokemon like Hitmonlee/Emboar/Pangoro, I feel as though Fletchinder warrants itself a nomination for A+.
With Gligar gone, these Pokemon no longer have to deal with being hard walled/checked by one of the most common Pokemon in the entire tier without having to dedicate a moveslot to deal with it in the case of Ice Punch Pangoro and HP Ice Emboar.
Also the RU tier has finally gained Medicham once again with the tier shift which is a dangerous Pokemon in terms of how hard it hits most teams with its wallbreaking power, and even pokemon such as Doublade and Aromatisse fear potentially being tricked a Choice Band/Scarf.
And with Mega Pidgeot gone, these Fighting type Pokemon no longer face the issue of being checked by it in most scenarios with its No Guard Hurricane.
So it seems Fletchinder has more reason to be used as a result of these factors.
Fletchinder's access to a 110 BP priority with a passable 73 attack can revenge all of these dangerous Pokemon with ease in most scenarios.
Not to mention Fletchinder's access to Will-o-Wisp to burn and a priority Roost thanks to Gale Wings and Swords Dance gives it the necessary tools to sweep offensive teams with ease given the opportunity to set up.
Due to its ability to perform the roles of a safety blanket against these threats, the ability to be a win condition against offensive teams, and its ability to cripple common switch ins on balance such as Rhyperior with Will-o-wisp, I feel Fletchinder warrants itself the possibility to move up to A+.
Because of these two Pokemon leaving and the probable rise of strong Fighting type Pokemon like Hitmonlee/Emboar/Pangoro, I feel as though Fletchinder warrants itself a nomination for A+.
With Gligar gone, these Pokemon no longer have to deal with being hard walled/checked by one of the most common Pokemon in the entire tier without having to dedicate a moveslot to deal with it in the case of Ice Punch Pangoro and HP Ice Emboar.
Also the RU tier has finally gained Medicham once again with the tier shift which is a dangerous Pokemon in terms of how hard it hits most teams with its wallbreaking power, and even pokemon such as Doublade and Aromatisse fear potentially being tricked a Choice Band/Scarf.
And with Mega Pidgeot gone, these Fighting type Pokemon no longer face the issue of being checked by it in most scenarios with its No Guard Hurricane.
So it seems Fletchinder has more reason to be used as a result of these factors.
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 120-140 (36 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 100-118 (30 - 35.4%) -- 27.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 174-205 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 118-139 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 100-118 (30 - 35.4%) -- 27.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 174-205 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 118-139 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Fletchinder's access to a 110 BP priority with a passable 73 attack can revenge all of these dangerous Pokemon with ease in most scenarios.
Not to mention Fletchinder's access to Will-o-Wisp to burn and a priority Roost thanks to Gale Wings and Swords Dance gives it the necessary tools to sweep offensive teams with ease given the opportunity to set up.
Due to its ability to perform the roles of a safety blanket against these threats, the ability to be a win condition against offensive teams, and its ability to cripple common switch ins on balance such as Rhyperior with Will-o-wisp, I feel Fletchinder warrants itself the possibility to move up to A+.
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No, Medicham is RU. Full explanation is posted here: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10153053463682390
thanks, now its understood.
Well not necessarily. Medicham doesn't have access to Knock Off which means it's almost completely helpless against Cresselia and other common Psychic-types like Reuniclus and Mesprit. It also plays a bit differently. Medicham hits hard as heck right off the bat with Pure Power High Jump Kick, whereas Gallade mostly set up with Swords Dance and tried to wallbreak/sweep from there. Medicham in general performs worse in this meta than Gallade did because it's a worse Hitmonlee/Emboar, and it's completely helpless against Cresselia which sucks.
Anyways, Clawitzer could definitely use a move up to B. It has always been a very potent wallbreaker with its great power and coverage, plus okay bulk making is fairly formidable and a pain in the ass to switch into. It's always still worked relatively well in RU even in ORAS, and without Serperior to take advantage of it or Dragalge to give it very stiff competition as a wallbreaker, Clawitzer can shine again. Its LO Scald is hard to switch into as it's strong and has a high burn chance, and its coverage in Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse boosted by Mega Launcher help a lot, as well as Ice Beam. It's still a fine Pokemon as it always has been, and even though the meta has been more hostile to our once beloved wallbreaker it's still quite good so B sounds cool, even B+ would be good for it, it's pretty good still.
Emboar and Hitmonlee could definitely move up, they're both great wallbreakers and stuff and hard to switch into, Hitmonlee has Mach Punch and Rapid Spin too to give it a bit of nice utility.
Just a few thoughts for now, might make a nom later if I can get my thoughts together.
Anyways, Clawitzer could definitely use a move up to B. It has always been a very potent wallbreaker with its great power and coverage, plus okay bulk making is fairly formidable and a pain in the ass to switch into. It's always still worked relatively well in RU even in ORAS, and without Serperior to take advantage of it or Dragalge to give it very stiff competition as a wallbreaker, Clawitzer can shine again. Its LO Scald is hard to switch into as it's strong and has a high burn chance, and its coverage in Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse boosted by Mega Launcher help a lot, as well as Ice Beam. It's still a fine Pokemon as it always has been, and even though the meta has been more hostile to our once beloved wallbreaker it's still quite good so B sounds cool, even B+ would be good for it, it's pretty good still.
Emboar and Hitmonlee could definitely move up, they're both great wallbreakers and stuff and hard to switch into, Hitmonlee has Mach Punch and Rapid Spin too to give it a bit of nice utility.
Just a few thoughts for now, might make a nom later if I can get my thoughts together.
Alrighty, the RU council/QC team helped me out quite a bit with making some updates, and i've finally gotten around to implementing them on the thread!
Anyways, the updates are as follows
Golbat was left alone for now, but if it proves to be worthy in a metagame without Gligar, it'll probably be moved up next update
As always, if you strongly disagree with any of the changes made/think a Pokemon should be moved further up or down, just say so!
Same with if you want to know exactly why a Pokemon was moved, i'm sure the members of the council/QC team who put this list together would be happy to explain their thoughts behind it.
As for things i'd like some discussion on, i'd like to see some discussion on our newest addition, Medicham and where it should be placed in the rankings
Last but not least, could we please try and keep the one liners to a minimum? Thanks in advance! :).
EDIT: I'd also like to see some discussion on RU's remaining Rapid Spin/Defog users now that Gligar's moved up by usage.
Anyways, the updates are as follows
Hitmonlee moved up to A+ rank
Rhyperior moved up to A+ rank
Cobalion moved up to A+ rank
Camerupt (mega) moved up to A rank (some ppl want it moved back down though)
Doublade moved up to A rank
Emboar moved up to A rank
Druddigon moved up to A- rank (honestly not sure about this one)
Steelix (mega) moved up to A- rank (some could see this going higher)
Virizion moved up to A- rank
Whimsicott moved up to A- rank
Spiritomb moved down to B+ rank
Feraligatr moved up to B+ rank
Rotom-Mow moved up to B+ rank
Bronzong moved down to B+ rank
Clawitzer moved up to B rank
Delphox moved up to B rank (thoughts on this?)
Tangrowth moved up to B rank
Weezing moved up to B rank
Huntail moved up to C+ rank
Regirock moved up to B- rank
Crustle added to C+ rank (custap berry being released+Gligar leaving were both boons for it)
Zweilous removed
Rhyperior moved up to A+ rank
Cobalion moved up to A+ rank
Camerupt (mega) moved up to A rank (some ppl want it moved back down though)
Doublade moved up to A rank
Emboar moved up to A rank
Druddigon moved up to A- rank (honestly not sure about this one)
Steelix (mega) moved up to A- rank (some could see this going higher)
Virizion moved up to A- rank
Whimsicott moved up to A- rank
Spiritomb moved down to B+ rank
Feraligatr moved up to B+ rank
Rotom-Mow moved up to B+ rank
Bronzong moved down to B+ rank
Clawitzer moved up to B rank
Delphox moved up to B rank (thoughts on this?)
Tangrowth moved up to B rank
Weezing moved up to B rank
Huntail moved up to C+ rank
Regirock moved up to B- rank
Crustle added to C+ rank (custap berry being released+Gligar leaving were both boons for it)
Zweilous removed
Golbat was left alone for now, but if it proves to be worthy in a metagame without Gligar, it'll probably be moved up next update
As always, if you strongly disagree with any of the changes made/think a Pokemon should be moved further up or down, just say so!
Same with if you want to know exactly why a Pokemon was moved, i'm sure the members of the council/QC team who put this list together would be happy to explain their thoughts behind it.
As for things i'd like some discussion on, i'd like to see some discussion on our newest addition, Medicham and where it should be placed in the rankings
Last but not least, could we please try and keep the one liners to a minimum? Thanks in advance! :).
EDIT: I'd also like to see some discussion on RU's remaining Rapid Spin/Defog users now that Gligar's moved up by usage.
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I'm sorry but i'm not exactly sure how Custap increases Crustle's viability. Also, what other Pokemon might have their viability boosted thanks to its release?
For the most part, Crustle is the only one since it benefits significantly from Custap due to its access to dual entry hazards and Custap helps alleviate its poor speed.
Oh, i get it now, like the Custap Skarmory set in OU
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