Research Group #4 - Gothitelle, Serperior, Exploud, Omanyte

[ChaoticaMortis]

Contrary is going to get Serp banned. Just saying.

I won't be part of this because I have other priorities, but I will say I don't expect much from Omanyte. 35 base HP and four fairly common weaknesses do not bode well for the little fellow. With B2W2's omnipresence of Giga Drain, and the existence of powerhouses like Zangoose, Cinccino, Eelektross (might I add that I don't see enough of the poor fellow), and special tanks like Gardevoir and Gothitelle, hell, Seviper and Heatmor get Giga Drain and the special power to outrun and mow down Omanyte. If it wants to run all three hazards, it's left with being completely walled by anything with Storm Drain or Water Absorb, or it can run its only Rock-type Special move (granted, there's what, two of them total), which has 8 uses and poor coverage. Ice Beam is more viable type-wise, but it's weaker without STAB.

This thread isn't about speculation on future DW releases, nor what they're going to do to NU.

Yes Omanyte has a base 35 HP stat, did you also know it has a base 100 Def stat and normally runs Eviolite (which gives it nearly 500 defense points)? Yes, Omanyte has common weaknesses, but the point of Omanyte is that it can run Stealth Rock + other hazards. In my book, the trade is worth it. Furthermore, ever see anyone keep Garbodor in on a Psychic-type? Glalie on a Fighting-type? Cacturne on a Bug-type? Likewise, don't send in or keep Omanyte in on something that it's weak to. Omanyte gets plenty of opportunities to come in (resistance to Flying and Normal-type moves is a very good thing), just don't be stupid and throw it in on Amoonguss and you'll be fine. Storm Drain and Water Absorb aren't all over the place, so that next bit was kind of silly. Omanyte's base 90 SpAtk stat isn't that bad without investment, and Scald 2HKO's Armaldo and Torkoal (Torkoal is actually outsped by Omanyte as well, meaning that you can kill it before it can spin with decent prediction) as well as many other things weak to Water with relative ease. Let's not forget that nifty Burn chance, which would make physical attackers virtually useless against Omanyte.

Hide

0 SpAtk Omanyte Scald vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Armaldo: 65.98% - 78.35%
2 hits to KO

0 SpAtk Omanyte Scald vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Torkoal: 61.22% - 72.59%
2 hits to KO

0 SpAtk Omanyte Scald vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Heatmor (-SpDef) : 80.06% - 94.53%
2 hits to KO
If Omanyte predicts correctly, standard Heatmor is killed on the switch, although I don't know why anyone would switch a Fire-type into a Rock / Water-type.

It's not as bad as some would speculate, give Omanyte a try.

 

[Shovel]

Everyday I'm Shovel'in. Which will be said each time.

Though I'm late, I will have to try each one, for the sake of using them.

 

[canno]

I'm also late, but I am also In.

I'll probably try some of the Serperior challenges, and maybe try out Gothitelle and Exploud later. Probably going to try Clam Mind with another item, probably a pinch berry.

 

[ebeast]

Though this isn't a set of my own creation (credit to FLCL for it) I have found it to be really great in every match I have played with and fits the challenge of:

• Create a set that uses three attacks. Restriction: No choice items.

Blood Queen (Gothitelle) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SAtk / 104 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt​

Thanks to her access to Taunt, versatile movepool, and most importantly Shadow Tag, Gothitelle can put them together to get a combination that has the power to stop and trap common Hazard users or walls. The list of Pokemon that Gothi can mess with include Probopass, Golem, Carracosta, Amoonguss, Alomomola, and Garbodor. Taunt prevents hazards or other status moves from bothering Gothi's team while she can also use her super effective attacks to take down the certain threats she needs to. Expert Belt was the original item on FLCL's set but even without it you still 2HKO Probopass and Amoonguss and Garbodor aren't threatening when Gothi packs Taunt. That and not to mention that Leftovers is Gothi's only source of recovery and it comes very much in handy to complement Gothitelle's great 70 / 95 / 110 defenses. EVs are set for Gothitelle to hit as hard as she can with enough Speed to outspeed max Speed Golem even after IV drops from HP Fighting.

 

[Zarco]

Ok, so some results a couple days into my testing.

Serperior, in my past and recent experience, is a dynamite SubCM user.
Serperior @ Lefties
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Timid
Overgrow
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power (Ice/Rock)

It sets up on grasses and bulky waters easily and like any fast SubCM user is very hard to beat once it sets up. Giga drain gives it a strategic advantage over SubCM Jirachi or Raikou in upper tiers because it can keep its health high when sweeping to consistently set up subs. HP Ice is the best for beating both Flying types AND other Grass types, but HP Rock hits Charizard harder (though it was really only good for Magmortar when it was the standard).

For the "No lefties/LO" challenge for Serperior, I've been using Specs Serperior.

Serperior @ Choice Specs
4HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Timid
Overgrow
-Leaf Storm
-Giga Drain
-Dragon Pulse
-Hidden Power (Rock)
It's been decent enough, Leaf Storm hits like a nuke and you outspeed most of the tier so you can sweep late-game with Giga Drain or something. HP Rock has decent all-around coverage, demolishes Charizard, and isn't as redundant as HP Ice would be, but HP Ice, Fire, and Ground are all good enough options. It's filler anyways.

I've used it alongside Gurdurr and offensive DD Altaria because they all generally hit hard and can wreck with some hazards behind them, supplied by my Omanyte

Omanyte @ Eviolite
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Bold
Shell Armor
-Stealth Rocks
-Spikes
-Scald
-Hidden Power (Rock)/Ice Beam
A good hazard setter, and is EXTREMELY physically bulky. Unfortunately it has no recovery and is weak to status, and it has bad special bulk. However, setting up spikes against a whole ton of things makes it viable, and it pairs beautifully with Lickilicky, who has Wish (with a massive HP) and Heal Bell to support Omastar, fantastic special bulk to take hits (I run a Max SpDef Lickilicky), and Dragon Tail to wonderfully abuse those hazards. To patch up their fighting weakness and protect your hazards, Misdreavus works great and appreciates wish support from Lickilicky. It can spread status or run Heal Bell to give Lickilicky another slot to work with, and it can use Taunt to break opposing stall or stop setup. Omastar/Lickilicky/Misdreavus is a fantastic core in NU!

I don't think Omastar can really work with Broken Armor because it is just too slow to abuse fast hazards (as something like Deoxys might), but it could be a useful ability with Shell Smash to give you an extra speed boost, if that outspeeds anything notable. Shell Smash seems weak off of it, because it is very slow, of mediocre bulk without Eviolite and/or investment (ok physically, terrible specially), and I simply don't see it being especially threatening off of 90 SpAtk when you have gems like Gorebyss and Carracosta to Shell Smash with.

 

[Wobble]

(Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt


Despite the awesomeness of the CM set, I've been having a lot of success with just pure Specs Gothielle. It works a lot like Skuntank on some other teams I've run, it doesn't see much action unless it really needs to. It devastates the regen core by OHKOing both Amoonguss with Psychic and Aloma with T-Bolt, and can also come in on things like Scarf Gardevoir and Exeggutor and KO with Signal Beam after taking some damage.

On a Volt-Turn team, Goth really shines, as slow Volt-Turns from stuff like Eel render your opponent helpless if they happen to be switching a wall into your CB Eel only for you to slow turn into Goth and they can do nothing but tip their hat.

With it's sheer power, Goth also makes a decent late game cleaner. The biggest problem I see with Goth overcoming this niche is the presence of so many late game speedsters to deal with other threats like Zangoose. Goth despite it's bulk doesn't really like taking too many hits and it can't outspeed much of anything that invests in speed.

Still, using it a pure, powerful trapper that breaks walls for other mons to sweep is outstanding. Shadow Tag makes it arguably the best wallbreaker in the tier, and almost every team could use a Gothielle.


Double Psyshock/Psychic is because you don't need to predict with Goth so it needs less coverage, and hitting the opponent where they are weaker guarantees more KOs. Thunderbolt is mostly for Aloma, but it's one of Goth's stronger neutral damage attacks anyway, and Signal Beam is for Psychics and Darks.

 

[DTC]

Serperior

Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock

This is the best Serperior set. Petaya Berry is effective in conjunction with Overgrow and Giga Drain because often you will already be trying to Substitute down to 25%. After that, you get the Overgrow and Petaya Berry boost, and Serperior's Giga Drain is incredibly strong and will likely get you back to 70% health or more. Calm Mind is for boosting and Hidden Power Rock is for coverage.

I'm interested in trying this set but I haven't found room for it on any team yet:

Omanyte

Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Rock
- Ice Beam

Basically an offensive Spike setter. 90 base Special Attack is enough to do quite a lot of damage, especially coming off of a Modest nature. This Omanyte set doesn't check Pokemon such as Swellow as well, but at least switching in will be a difficult task. It's also nice that it's faster than Amoonguss.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Serperior @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock

This is the best Serperior set. Petaya Berry is effective in conjunction with Overgrow and Giga Drain because often you will already be trying to Substitute down to 25%. After that, you get the Overgrow and Petaya Berry boost, and Serperior's Giga Drain is incredibly strong and will likely get you back to 70% health or more. Calm Mind is for boosting and Hidden Power Rock is for coverage.

I'm interested in trying this set but I haven't found room for it on any team yet:

Cool set DTC! I didn't know that the other berries were released! Now I'm interested to try them too.

 

[Full2Half]

Wow, the other berries are out? time to abuse. anyways, specs goth has still been good and sleeptalk exploud is a boss. coil serp is alright as well, although im not too fond of omanyte as a spiker, and i still prefer champion dwebble. :)

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

An update: Please, don't use Specs Serperior. It is by far one of the most mediocre special attackers I've ever tried out, and rarely gets me any kills. I've already lost a few matches because it just couldn't hit my opponent hard enough. I suppose I'll try revamping the set. I'm really liking the SubPetaya set that DTC posted, and will probably be giving it a try. Trop's Dual Screener looks good as well, and would probably make a great anti-lead.

 

[Bluwing]

Serperior @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Coil
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Well this set is pretty amazing, with Serperior's great defenses a RestTalk set with Dragon Tail works pretty damn well. Ofc this set needs a lot off support to work and with the great Spikers and great SR mons in this tier that is no problem, with Coil and Dragon Tail I invested the EVs in HP and SDef because the Dragon Tail has -1 priority and Coil only raises Atk and Def, this set is very great and you should feel free to try it.​

 

[dholt12]

Iv already been trying Exploud a little bit so i'll take him and give it a whirl, and shall return with a set soon that i find that works using two non damaging moves

 

[dinosaurdan]

Incredibly late, but Ive always wanted to try Exploud and now seems like a good time to do it.

 

[canno]

Serperior

Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock

I've been using an eeirly similar set (although I haven't laddered too much). My set was:

Serperior @ Salac Berry
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock

The EV's are the same as the on-site ones, except with more speed and a lefites number for HP. Salac Berry might seem weird, but after a +1, only a few scarfers outspeed you. I'll probably post a more in-depth post later, as right now I'm in a hurry.

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Exploud @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 164 Spd / 252 SAtk / 92 HP
Modest Nature
- Focus Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Substitute
- Work Up

Perfect Coverage out of champion Shedinja thanks to Scrappy. Hyper Voice for reliable STAB move. Focus Blast complements Hyper Voice nicely by hitting all resists and fellow Normal-types hard. Sub to shield from revenge kill and protect you just in case that Focus Blast misses(lol always). Work Up to boost its special Attack and because it really doesn't need any extra coverage.

Max special Attack for maximum damage, fast Enough to outspeed standard defensive missy that will do nothing to you, giving you a free sub, rest is in bulk.[/QUOTE]
I've testing this set and it works great with hazard support. I'll edit this later if I get more info.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

At first I thought you completely stole that post, then I realized you just failed at QUOTE code.

 

[Shelmet]

I'm probably really late, but I'll take a stab at Gothitelle and omanyte.

 

[Django]

Yeah unfortunately we've moved on to the new Research Group, so I'll be locking this up now. Do go and join in over there though!