Item Red Card (Viable Users, Role in the Meta)

[Entei The Swift]

I had seen a un-updated post about this item back in october so I wanted to touch basis on an effective strategy that I feel can change this item from being a niche in the current meta to a more prominent choice in certain team compositions.

Description
The opponent is forced out immediately if it attacks the holder. The holder of this item will still take damage from the attack. One-time use.

Notable/Potential Red Card Users:

Rotom W
Deoxys
Zapdos
Mew
Landorus

Anything with reliable recovery, Bulk and/or access to Uturn/Voltswitch


The Original idea of Red card and quite effective method is on Hazard set-ups that prevent offensive leads from setting up on them as well as letting you have ideally extra turns to set up. My idea with this is using as a disruption tool while providing you with an opportunity to start momentum with Volt switch/uturn.

The main pokemon i want to mention this for will serve as a general basis for other similar users.

Rotom -W

Original Set:

<p>Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry<br />
Ability: Levitate<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Volt Switch<br />
- Hydro Pump<br />
- Will-O-Wisp<br />
- Rest<br />

<p>Rotom-W is very good in the metagame right now, as it checks extremely dangerous threats such as Talonflame, Blaziken, Togekiss, and Azumarill. Rotom-W is also great in gaining momentum via Volt Switch, as Ground-types generally can't switch in on Rotom-W in fear of its Water-type STAB attacks. Hydro Pump hits moderately hard and has nice general coverage with Volt Switch. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers such as Excadrill, Azumarill, and Garchomp, as well as Breloom and Ferrothorn on the switch. Rest gives Rotom-W a second life as it's easily worn down by Stealth Rock. Chesto Berry heals off Rest.</p>

<p>Scizor is the best teammate for Rotom-W, as it forms an incredible VoltTurn core. Rotom-W beats physical walls that switch into Scizor, such as Gliscor, Skarmory, and Gyarados, while Scizor beats Ferrothorn and Blissey that switch into Rotom-W. Forretress has great synergy with Rotom-W, as Forretress easily tanks Grass-types attacks, while Forretress also supports Rotom-W with Rapid Spin support, due to Rotom-W switching all the time. Blaziken likes free switches, as well as Rotom-W's ability to beat Talonflame and bulky Water-types, while Amoonguss beats Grass-types and helps spread status along with Rotom-W.</p>

Rotom-Wash @ Red Card
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
IVS: 0 Spe (preferably)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex/Rest/Trick

[Side note: Hex was boosted to 65 from 50 this generation and is more of an interesting gimmick as steel no longer resists ghost making it a suprise factor vs Aegislash. Effectively Hex becomes a 130 ghost move in conjunction with WoW.]


The main idea behind this set is to Volt switch into their random switch-in to allow you the chance to set up. In regards to immunities from volt switch you can either take those threats out or use a pokemon with access to uturn (as bug has no immunities) that has reliable recovery, aka Zapdos. For teams that rely on Volt switch and Uturn for momentum this item provides an ideal opportunity to do so while providing all the benefits that red card provides either way vs set ups/sweepers etc. This set can be used as a lead or as a pseudo revenge switcher. Forcing an opponent to randomly switch into a pokemon disrupts their momentum and often opens up free turns for your main sweepers, such as Mega Pinsir/Aegislash/etc because redcard switches them out before your volt switch hits.

SCENARIO:

Just a scenario to give you a general idea:​

Rotom-W vs Aegislash

Aegislash uses Shadow Sneak
Red Card Activates and Switches them into Talon Flame
Rotom uses Volt Switch and does 72.4 - 85.2%
You Switch to Dragonite
They either risk being killed by Extreme Speed 43.6 - 51.6%
or switch in giving you a free turn to set up with Dragon dance

This is just a small specific example of the help red card switching gives you.

his relevant red card sets can be found here.



Please let me know any other suggestions you may have for red card abusing as i feel this underrated item can provide more than just a niche in x/y team comps.

 

[Chou Toshio]

One thing I'll say is that in countering red card, one really effective option is to use a Pokemon that has attacks with draw-backs. For instance, leading off with Choice Band Dragonite or Choice Specs Latios against a team that leads with deoxys-- and going STRAIGHT for the Outrage/D. Meteor. Getting switched out by the opponent's item immediately after abusing your most powerful attack is a huge bonus! On an offensive team, this will usually weaken Deoxys to the point that one of your other teammates can finish it off with ease-- often without letting it even set up a 2nd layer of hazards, and also not locking you in as well!

When I run a CB/Specs mon on a team, I'm usually happy to see Deoxys-D.

 

[Entei The Swift]

One thing I'll say is that in countering red card, one really effective option is to use a Pokemon that has attacks with draw-backs. For instance, leading off with Choice Band Dragonite or Choice Specs Latios against a team that leads with deoxys-- and going STRAIGHT for the Outrage/D. Meteor. Getting switched out by the opponent's item immediately after abusing your most powerful attack is a huge bonus! On an offensive team, this will usually weaken Deoxys to the point that one of your other teammates can finish it off with ease-- often without letting it even set up a 2nd layer of hazards.

which is understandable. The main reason of this is using red card in conjunction with Volt Switch/Uturn to set up free advantage while disrupting your opponents momentum. Even if they gain an advantage by having a free drawback move you also gain the chance to set up with a crucial free turn that can be game changing. At least thats been my experience with the idea so far.

 

[Dragontamer]

Forretress seems outclassed by Deoxys-D as far as I can tell (I guess Forretress has Toxic Spikes? For what its worth...). The only spiker with a different niche would probably be Shuckle... with Sturdy + Sticky Web + Stealth Rocks (Shuckle can also Encore when its Red Card is used up to mess up a 2nd attempt at setup). Forretress does have Rapid Spin (which beats out Taunters) over Deoxys-D.

Skarmory and Mandibuzz both have Whirlwind, which seem more reliable than Red Card. Red Card just "feels" more useful on a non-phazer... although I don't really have experience with the item.

But really, Deoxys-D just seems superior to all Red-Card spikers. Its just a niche that is perfectly executed by Deoxys.

 

[Entei The Swift]

Forretress seems outclassed by Deoxys-D as far as I can tell (I guess Forretress has Toxic Spikes? For what its worth...). The only spiker with a different niche would probably be Shuckle... with Sturdy + Sticky Web + Stealth Rocks (Shuckle can also Encore when its Red Card is used up to mess up a 2nd attempt at setup). Forretress does have Rapid Spin (which beats out Taunters) over Deoxys-D.

Skarmory and Mandibuzz both have Whirlwind, which seem more reliable than Red Card. Red Card just "feels" more useful on a non-phazer... although I don't really have experience with the item.

But really, Deoxys-D just seems superior to all Red-Card spikers. Its just a niche that is perfectly executed by Deoxys.

I agree with what you say. The main point of the thread was to look at red card from an offensive standpoint rather than a defensive one. Using a bulky offensive pokemon with a uturn/volt switch that goes last can provide you with the option to go for a game breaking switch in that will give you that free turn to boost or do whatever is needed.

 

[Entei The Swift]

Updating with Scenario's Uturn users, etc.

 

[Milkshook]

It could be an alternative way of activating Unburden on some pokemon. I prefer other ways but Red card is completely viable on Unburden pokemon and could potentially force a switch into set-up bait.

 

[Entei The Swift]

It could be an alternative way of activating Unburden on some pokemon. I prefer other ways but Red card is completely viable on Unburden pokemon and could potentially force a switch into set-up bait.

If only sceptile wasn't the only viable Pokemon (swirlix maybe) . The thing is they would have to predict switch into a resisted hit aka gyarados waterfall. Nice idea though.

 

[DestinyGallade]

maybe something like a bulk up sweeper could use it and hope it switches into something it can set up on to get 2 free bulk ups

 

[deepbluejeer]

If only sceptile wasn't the only viable Pokemon (swirlix maybe) . The thing is they would have to predict switch into a resisted hit aka gyarados waterfall. Nice idea though.

You forgot about Hawlucha, although its Sub SD Red Card set is actually illegal. Still, Hawlucha was a pretty big threat in UU before it was banned because of SD + Unburden.

 

[Falyxanation]

The main problem I have with the Red Card is that you have almost exactly the same amount of good outcomes as you have of bad ones. It is essentially 50/50. For example, it was the beginning of the battle, and I was testing a Red Card Forretress set. I started setting up Spikes on a Deoxys-Speed that was doing that same to me. After we'd both set all three layers, I anticipated that he'd go for Fire Punch, so I stayed in and used Rapid Spin hoping that I'd remove the Spikes, and the Red Card would bring out something that I could later use Volt Switch on so I could get some momentum going. Instead, the Red Card brings out a Gengar.

It is these times that really discourage me from using it. Quite often it would have worked just as well or even better to use Roar or Whirlwind, since you control when you use it, and you don't have to use your item slot on it.

 

[Entei The Swift]

maybe something like a bulk up sweeper could use it and hope it switches into something it can set up on to get 2 free bulk ups

I try to.avoid using it for non attacking purposes because taunt users can run all over you. I guarantee if you try the rotom red card set you will love it. It's won me so many games with the easy momentum it gives you.

You forgot about Hawlucha, although its Sub SD Red Card set is actually illegal. Still, Hawlucha was a pretty big threat in UU before it was banned because of SD + Unburden.

Well that's the main reason I didn't say him even though if I was doing unburden sets with anything I would probably choose a different consumable

 

[Entei The Swift]

The main problem I have with the Red Card is that you have almost exactly the same amount of good outcomes as you have of bad ones. It is essentially 50/50. For example, it was the beginning of the battle, and I was testing a Red Card Forretress set. I started setting up Spikes on a Deoxys-Speed that was doing that same to me. After we'd both set all three layers, I anticipated that he'd go for Fire Punch, so I stayed in and used Rapid Spin hoping that I'd remove the Spikes, and the Red Card would bring out something that I could later use Volt Switch on so I could get some momentum going. Instead, the Red Card brings out a Gengar.

It is these times that really discourage me from using it. Quite often it would have worked just as well or even better to use Roar or Whirlwind, since you control when you use it, and you don't have to use your item slot on it.

Well as the rotom set for example says it wouldn't really be a lead. Usually I scope out my sweepers biggest threat and take it out. Then rotom will allow me to intentionally volt switch out to w/e red card brings in so I have a free turn. So really there is no 50/50 chance as red card resolves then volt switch resolves allowing me to switch.in anything I.feel counters them.

 

[NotBruceWayne]

Ditto is a pretty decent user. Come in, get the boosts and phaze the opponent who attempts to KO Ditto (assuming Ditto actually lives ofc). This will probably work better against stuff like Quiver Dance or Calm Mind, which boost defense though.

 

[Falyxanation]

Well as the rotom set for example says it wouldn't really be a lead. Usually I scope out my sweepers biggest threat and take it out. Then rotom will allow me to intentionally volt switch out to w/e red card brings in so I have a free turn. So really there is no 50/50 chance as red card resolves then volt switch resolves allowing me to switch.in anything I.feel counters them.

Yeah, I noticed that Red Card is probably more suited to offence than defence after experiencing times like the one I mentioned. I still think that there are better items to use for most Pokemon though, since some items are consistently good while Red Card has times where things don't work in your favour.

I still haven't tried the item on more Pokemon though (Rotom included), so my opinion may change.

 

[tutterydiglett]

I do like what Falyxanation said about 50/50 situation because it is very true. The Red Card MAY bring out a 'mon that really benefits your own team but also may bring out a Pokemon that you really do not want to be out at that time during the game.

And Red Card on Washy seems pretty interesting, and does patch up the earlier point I just made quite well, being able to have access to Volt Switch. However, I still like Leftovers > Red Card because of the increased survivability.

 

[Entei The Swift]

I do like what Falyxanation said about 50/50 situation because it is very true. The Red Card MAY bring out a 'mon that really benefits your own team but also may bring out a Pokemon that you really do not want to be out at that time during the game.

And Red Card on Washy seems pretty interesting, and does patch up the earlier point I just made quite well, being able to have access to Volt Switch. However, I still like Leftovers > Red Card because of the increased survivability.

Yeah leftovers is nice as reliable recovery is beneficial in many ways. Usually though once I switch into a poke that counters their red card switch I usually sweep. (*note most sets I see do chesto rest and when someone sees you are not recovering from per say Sr damage they will assume you are running chesto giving you an advantage)

The core I have been running is

Rotom w, aegislash, talon flame/pinsir as they all synergize well and as aegislash and talon flame have great combined coverage. Another neat use with this set is being able to get at least one free WoW, potentially 2 if you don't feel like v switching out incase they have a garchomp/ground offensive.

 

[Rotosect]

Red Card on something with Sturdy can be useful to disrupt baton pass chains, which seems to be really popular lately.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Oh god Baton Pass...

Those minimize Drifblims really piss me off and Red Card can successfully stop a chain :D

 

[Jaroda]

Red Card is potentially awesome on Unaware users. You can let your opponent set up as they like and Clefable can come in, take regular damage while healing or boosting itself and forcing out your opponent. It's pretty good on Klefki too who has great defensive typing and the card allows more free set up turns for your team. Finally the most fun one, although a total gamble, is Red Card Ditto. Almost everyone expects Scarf sets, so imagine Weakness Policy Dragonite running away from an expected Outrage, or using Extremespeed if your Multiscale is broken from hazards, only to be forced out as you go one Dragon Dance further. It's an amazing bluff but really depends on what you copy.

 

[Facepalmboook]

Forretress seems outclassed by Deoxys-D as far as I can tell (I guess Forretress has Toxic Spikes? For what its worth...). The only spiker with a different niche would probably be Shuckle... with Sturdy + Sticky Web + Stealth Rocks (Shuckle can also Encore when its Red Card is used up to mess up a 2nd attempt at setup). Forretress does have Rapid Spin (which beats out Taunters) over Deoxys-D.

Skarmory and Mandibuzz both have Whirlwind, which seem more reliable than Red Card. Red Card just "feels" more useful on a non-phazer... although I don't really have experience with the item.

But really, Deoxys-D just seems superior to all Red-Card spikers. Its just a niche that is perfectly executed by Deoxys.

Shuckle might be really decent with Red Card. Not only as a Spiker, but also to create free Switch ins with Power Split. You tank the hit and use Power Split. With Shuckles miserable offensive stats, it can cripple the target heavily. (Kyurem-B's offensive stats are 247/213 after a power split when it has special attack boosting nature, when shuckle has IVs in its offensive stats.) You can then bring something with low bulk or Trap the pokemon with Infestation. Or you could Trap the pokemon instead of using Power Split. You can use Power Split afterwards and stall the target completly.

 

[TaBuu]

Deoxys-D has to be one of the most viable and common abuser of Red Card because of how well it fits it. Setting up entry hazards and/or Taunting the opposition will elicit a response from the opponent which will in many cases end up being an attacking move. By forcing a random shuffle and being able to execute a move, all in one turn, Red Card Deo-D is a nuisance and somewhat difficult to answer appropriately.
However Red Card is far from perfect to be frankly honest. Random is random and thus it may end up playing against you in many scenarios. For example, I'll set up my SR and when the Red Card activates, my opponent's Defog user is shuffled right out.
Another flaw is the abundance of Knock Off users. Knocking Off Red Card prevents the switch from occurring and maybe hinder Deo-D from getting all the hazards it wants to lay on the field.