Red & Blue Tier List: Pre-Evolved Pokemon Solo Run Edition

[BP]

Approved by DHR
OP adapted from Merritt's RSE In-game Tier list discussion thread

Red & Blue Solo Run Tier List

I got this thread idea from the current 53-part challenge that Jrose11 is doing on YouTube. The goal of this thread is to rank all the base Pre-Evolved Pokémon from Red & Blue into an In-game tier list based on their performance in a solo run. Please keep in mind that this tier list is only for Pokémon Red & Blue. A Pokémon’s performance in Pokémon Yellow will not be considered due to how drastically different the game is.​

Solo Run Rules

• Must be a first stage Pre-Evolved Pokémon (I.E. Abra, Bulbasaur, Paras)
• It is a solo run so you can only use the 1 Pokémon in battle (You may catch other Pokémon but only for HM use)
• You cannot use Items inside of battle such as Hyper Potions and Ethers.
• You cannot abuse glitches outside of battle such as getting infinite rare candies, skipping parts of the game, etc.

What are the tiers?
In this in-game tier list there will be eight tiers (Or more due to the number of Pokémon). Pokémon that are the most useful belong in the S-Tier, while Pokémon that are the least useful belong in the F-Tier. Pokemon that cannot possibly beat the game are ranked in the Impossible tier and will not be moved. The tiers are as follows:

- S-Tier
- A-Tier
- B-Tier
- C-Tier
- D-Tier
- E-Tier
- F-Tier
- Impossible

How are Pokémon going to be Tiered?
- Typing: What is the Pokémon's typing and how useful it is in the game. More useful typings tend to rank higher.

- Stats: What their base stats are like and how they fare overall against other Pokémon

- Movepool: What the Pokémon's movepool is like and how this affects the battles

- Major Battles: How the Pokémon fares against key matchups in the game. Pokémon who perform better against more major battles tend to rank higher.

- Other: Both In-game time and Level will contribute how we tier the various Pokémon.

Basically, Pokémon who are ranked higher in the tier list tend to have strong movepools, can beat the game at a lower level and/or more quickly than others can, have great base stats, and do not struggle with the games major battles.

Nomination Format
Note: This is just a suggestion on what your VR nomination post should look like and is not a mandatory format.

Name
Stats: Describe how a Pokémon's stats make it excel.
Typing: Discuss this Pokémon's typing in a sentence or two. Is its STAB efficient or not, does it have any great resistances or glaring weaknesses?
Movepool: Describe this Pokémon's movepool in a few sentences. Does it have many effective movepool options through level up or TM/HM use?
Major Battles: Describe how the Pokémon handles the major opponents throughout the game. Notable opponents and battles include the Gym Leaders, battles against Giovanni, the various rival battles, the Elite Four themselves, and the Champion.
Additional Comments: Discuss any miscellaneous information not covered in other sections here. Factors such as experience growth, its reliance on the Badge Boost Glitch, and its TM/HM usage can all be mentioned here.

Feel free to dispute and discuss other users’ submissions, but please, no flaming. Normal forum rules apply here. Finally, this is not the place to talk about the games in general.

Available Pokemon

- Abra

- Bellsprout

- Bulbasaur

- Caterpie

- Charmander

- Clefairy

- Cubone

- Diglett

- Doduo

- Dratini

- Drowzee

- Eevee

- Ekans

- Exeggcute

- Gastly

- Geodude

- Goldeen

- Grimer

- Growlithe

- Horsea

- Jigglypuff

- Kabuto

- Koffing

- Krabby

- Machop

- Magikarp

- Magnemite

- Mankey

- Meowth

- Nidoran (M)

- Nidoran (F)

- Oddish

- Omanyte

- Paras

- Pidgey

- Pikachu

- Poliwag

- Ponyta

- Psyduck

- Rattata

- Rhyhorn

- Sandshrew

- Seel

- Shellder

- Slowpoke

- Spearow

- Squirtle

- Staryu

- Tentacool

- Venonat

- Voltorb

- Vulpix

- Weedle

- Zubat

Notable TMs

TM01 Mega Punch (Located in Mt. Moon and the Celedon City Store)
TM03 Swords Dance (Located in Silph Co.)
TM08 Body Slam (Located in the SS. Anne)
TM19 Seismic Toss (Located Route 25)
TM26 Earthquake (Located in Silph Co.)
TM29 Psychic (Located in Saffron City)
TM31 Mimic (Located in Saffron City)
TM33 Reflect (Located in Power Plant)

 

[BP]

These are just currently my estimations on the rankings based on the above criteria. The Pokemon within each tier are in no particular order.
S-Tier:

S Tier

A-Tier

A Tier

B-Tier

B Tier

C-Tier

C Tier

D-Tier

D Tier

E-Tier

F Tier

F-Tier

F-tier

Impossible

impossible

 

[Merritt]

I'm sorry but I fail to understand what exactly the start point is. Is it soloing from the point where the mon becomes available? Replacing a starter as a Level 5 mon?

 

[BP]

I'm sorry but I fail to understand what exactly the start point is. Is it soloing from the point where the mon becomes available? Replacing a starter as a Level 5 mon?

In these runs you would replace your starter with said pokemon. For example, instead of choosing Bulbasaur I would instead be choosing Gastly.

 

[Merritt]

In these runs you would replace your starter with said pokemon. For example, instead of choosing Bulbasaur I would instead be choosing Gastly.

Aight.

Abra deserves Impossible tier just as much as Magikarp and Caterpie then, if not more. An acceptable endgame does not make up for having to Struggle grind all the way through Brock, and unlike Magikarp and Caterpie it doesn't even get Tackle at some point so you actually have to fight and beat Brock with Struggle, forcing a much higher grind than Magikarp or Caterpie.

 

[BP]

Aight.

Abra deserves Impossible tier just as much as Magikarp and Caterpie then, if not more. An acceptable endgame does not make up for having to Struggle grind all the way through Brock, and unlike Magikarp and Caterpie it doesn't even get Tackle at some point so you actually have to fight and beat Brock with Struggle, forcing a much higher grind than Magikarp or Caterpie.

Impossible tier is reserved for pokemon where its literally impossible to beat the game for. Abra in this case only has to struggle until it beats brock. This is a big reason why it's in the E tier

 

[Merritt]

Impossible tier is reserved for pokemon where its literally impossible to beat the game for. Abra in this case only has to struggle until it beats brock. This is a big reason why it's in the E tier

Right forgot Struggle was still Normal.

Nomming it for F then, Abra's early period is going to take a very long time to get through.

 

[BP]

Nomming it for F then, Abra's early period is going to take a very long time to get through.

Abra needs to get to level 26 or 27 and pray for RNG in order to beat Brock. After that stretch the game becomes a bit easier. I'm not comfortable with ranking Abra lower simply because after getting Mega Punch in Mt. Moon the game becomes a lot easier. Than it really picks up after gaining Psychic. After getting Mega Punch in Mt. Moon, Abra usually 1 shots a majority of pokemon bar rock types. The game gets a lot easier because after Rival 2 you should be around Level 30. You'll be insanely overleved by that point. Than you get body slam on the SS Anne which is much more reliable.

Edit: The main reason why Abra is as low as it is is because of how tedious and long Pre Brock is. In the later game you an OHKO almost everything with Psychic. The game is a breeze post Brock up until the E4 and the Rival fight just before.

 

[Modulo]

Nominating Clefairy for B-tier.

Clefairy needs to grind a bit before it can beat Brock, but with Sing & STAB DoubleSlap (Lv. 18) he should go down in a reasonable-ish time frame without losing to PP. Once Mt. Moon is reached, Clefairy really comes into its own being able to learn both Mega Punch and Water Gun as well as a lot of great TMs down the road. With a final moveset of Body Slam/Thunderbolt/Psychic/Ice Beam (which can be achieved shortly after Celadon if you're willing to take a slight early detour to Saffron) Clefairy's lategame is similar to Staryu's and most fights should be won rather easily from this point onward.

Middling stats as well as the grind period pre-Brock keep it from being higher up, but being a tier below Pikachu (who has more problems vs. Brock as well as a worse late-game) cannot be right for Clef.


EDIT: Also, Weedle for Impossible tier because your rule prohibiting in-battle items means Weedle cannot beat Agatha.
Poison Sting has a maximum of 56 AP. Even with all Critical highrolls from a lv. 100 Weedle, none of Agatha's mons goes down to 11 or less Poison stings, so you need more than 56 Poison Stings to beat her, and you cannot resort to Struggle due to Agatha's lv.60 Gengar being the last mon she sends out. With X-items or PP-restoring items, the fight becomes possible.


EDIT2: Also, Diglett needs to be above Geodude and Rhyhorn, simply because it can clear Misty a lot earlier.
Misty is a huge roadblock due to Bubblebeam OHKOing all of the above 'mons for a really long time. Diglett has high enough speed to outspeed and OHKO Starmie with a critical STAB Dig (needs to be reset for) far before Geodude or Rhyhorn survive a Water Gun.

 

[BP]

Nominating Clefairy for B-tier.

I agree with this nomination. Clefairy has an insane move pool and it learns Defense Curl at Level 39.

Also, Weedle for Impossible tier because your rule prohibiting in-battle items means Weedle cannot beat Agatha.
Poison Sting has a maximum of 56 AP. Even with all Critical highrolls from a lv. 100 Weedle, none of Agatha's mons goes down to 11 or less Poison stings, so you need more than 56 Poison Stings to beat her, and you cannot resort to Struggle due to Agatha's lv.60 Gengar being the last mon she sends out. With X-items or PP-restoring items, the fight becomes possible.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I'll remove Weedle from F and drop him to Impossible. I'll just probably just swap E and F tier and than Remove E tier all together.

Also, Diglett needs to be above Geodude and Rhyhorn, simply because it can clear Misty a lot earlier.
Misty is a huge roadblock due to Bubblebeam OHKOing all of the above 'mons for a really long time. Diglett has high enough speed to outspeed and OHKO Starmie with a critical STAB Dig (needs to be reset for) far before Geodude or Rhyhorn survive a Water Gun.

This is also a really good take and I'm willing to comply with this nomination as well. Misty is a big roadblock a lot of Pokemon just because of Starmie.

 

[Jerry the great]

Hello! I'd like to nominate Krabby for C tier.

Typing: It's solid. Not great because of a specific stat I'll get to later, but still pretty good. The only major bosses that can easily stomp it specifically due to it's typing are Erika and Lt.Surge, but those two are easily be able to be left until later on. It helps quite a bit vs Loreli, Blaine, Brock, and every rock/ground type really.

Stats: OK, this is where it's not so pleasant. It has a crazy 105 attack. That's like the attack of fully evolved Pokemon! So you are certainly going to hit hard with normal moves. It also has 90 defense. So it's going to take a hit well on the physical side. However, it's speed is eh, at 50. It's... OK for a first stager. And it's other stats are plain awful. 30 HP? 25 special? Well, you certainly aren't taking super effective hits due to all grass and electric moves being special, that's for sure! Even special attacks that don't do super effective damage do loads! And when you're a water type, you'll want higher special than that. If there's one reason I'm not nominating this for B/A, this is why. But even then, it's attack stat and defense are exceptional, especially for an unevolved Pokemon.

Movepool: Quite extraordinary! It gets bubble right from the start. And as stab. So it's not having many problems with Brock. It also gets several important TMs you mentioned, which are: Seismic Toss, Swords Dance, Mega Punch, Body Slam, and Mimic (though what doesn't get mimic besides the impossible tier mons). And that's with a 105 attack stat. So with moves like Body Slam and Mega Punch, it's hitting pretty fucking hard. It also gets Guillotine at level 25. And we all know the danger from OHKO moves, especially when you can reset and try again and again. Overall, I definitely love this thing's movepool.

Major battles: It's exceptional in quite a few cases, though it falls to some. Against Brock, thanks to water stab and 90 defense, you can win at a very low level. Many unevolved mons can only dream of beating Brock before level 10. Against rival #1 and optimal, you aren't winning though, unless you had your rival choose charmander, as until level 20, krabby only gets leer and bubble. Against the second non optimal one, not too many issues, especially if he has squirtle or charmander. Against Misty, it's quite good. It's water typing let's it resist Misty's water STAB, and it's certainly taking their weak tackles with it's 90 defense, even if that HP is bad. And Krabby can hit with a devastating mega punch. Against third rival, same as the second non optimal one. Lt.Surge? No. Just no. Do NOT think of fighting him right away. You will lose. However, he's easy to just pass. You can come back for him when your speed is higher. For the fourth non optimal rival battle, it's certainly more terrible than the previous two. Especially if you choose to be Jrose and have Blue pick the bulbasaur line. His kadabra and growlithe/charmeleon/wartortle shouldn't be too bad. However, that Gyarados will mess you up with it's very good defense and HP (when fighting it with unevolved mons anyways) and dragon rage. Even if it goes for Hydro Pump, it's still doing heavy damage due to Krabby's awful special bulk, hydro pump being STAB, gyarados not having bad special attack, and hydro pump having the power of... Well, Hydro Pump! However, you can do what Jrose usually does for this rival and leave him for later. For the first (and all of them really) Giovanni battle, it goes like this: Easy with water stab, bad without it. Erika: Same as Lt.Surge. Koga: With Toxic, and the Muk and Weezing, who certainly were the physical walls of the day, I wouldn't say it's TOO bad, especially if you plan on using guillotine until you do hit as they aren't the fastest thing around at all, but it can be an annoyance. I could say set up 3 swords dances on the first Mon, but poison isn't fun to deal with while setting up. For the fith non optimal rival battle, you can use swords dance 3 times on Pidgeot to exploit the badge boost glitch (if you don't know what that is go check out Jrose), and then sweep with body slam, though sand attack can be annoying. For Sabrina, I recommend you set up just one swords dance on the Kadabra. I say one because it can hit you for scary damage. But one is all you'll likely need anyways. As Krabby's attack stat is amazing, and Sabrina's Pokemon lack great physical bulk. Blaine: That 90 defense, resistance to fire moves, and swords dance leads to being able to ensure your victory. The penultimate rival battle: Same as the previous rival battle. Sand attack can be scary, but if you set up 3 swords dances, you should sweep. Loreli: Resists ice and water moves which let's you set up on dewgong easily, and then you mop the floor. Bruno: It's Bruno for crying out loud! No way you should get wrecked. Agatha: This is a nightmare. The ghost typing means you can't do the usual easy win strategy of "spam swords dance and body slam" so your only way of attacking the gengars and haunters is water moves, ice beam, and blizzard. Not even kidding. But here's the thing: Your special is crap, and the ghost's special is terrific! So you're likely not doing much damage. Don't think of setting up on Golbat or Arbok to perform the badge boost glitch either: Golbat has haze and Arbok has glare. And unlike Erika or Surge, you cannot leave Agatha to deal with for later. This is the absolute worst major battle for Krabby. This is also the other reason I'm not nominating it higher: While it easily beats most bosses, that's not the case for Agatha. Lance: Set up 3 swords dances as per usual. Champion blue: You'd think with the grass types and Alakazam, this'd be a nightmare. And yes, it would be if he led off with one of those. However, he does with pidgeot. And it doesn't even have sand attack this time! So set up like usual, and... Yeah.

 

[BP]

Krabby for C tier.

I'm actually going to bump this up to B tier. I definitely overlooked Krabby's Movepool, Attack stat, and Swords Dance. I was too focused on its abysmal stats to notice the great things it had going for it. After gaining access to Swords Dance, Krabby can set up against physical attackers and sweep teams thanks to the Badge Boost glitch. Not to mention it gets Mega Punch and than Body Slam soon after defeating Brock. This coupled with its attack stat gives Krabby the edge it needs to boost it up to B tier in my opinion. Erika can be an issue but all you have to do is set up like one Swords Dance and win. Against the Rival fights you can set up Swords Dances against the Pidgeot and win that was as well. The only real trouble the rival should give you in the Pokemon Tower before you get Swords Dance. Otherwise all you need to do is make sure you do not level up during the battles where you abuse SD. This shouldn't be an issue due to Krabby residing in the Medium Fast Experience category.

 

[Modulo]

Nominating Grimer for C-tier.

While Grimer has a fantastic ATK stat, it is held back by having only Pound as an attacking move prior to level 37 or getting TM BodySlam. It really struggles to deal with Rock-types until you get Mega Drain, which is not a trivial TM to get due to Erika's Victreebel's combination of Stun Spore + Wrap (which it will use due to 'Good AI') and while it movepool develops well after that, its low Speed and middling Special hinder its offensive as well as defensive capabilities even in the later portions of the game.

 

[BP]

Nominating Grimer for C-tier.

While Grimer has a fantastic ATK stat, it is held back by having only Pound as an attacking move prior to level 37 or getting TM BodySlam. It really struggles to deal with Rock-types until you get Mega Drain, which is not a trivial TM to get due to Erika's Victreebel's combination of Stun Spore + Wrap (which it will use due to 'Good AI') and while it movepool develops well after that, its low Speed and middling Special hinder its offensive as well as defensive capabilities even in the later portions of the game.

I agree with this assessment of Grimer. It's stats maybe decent but it suffers from an awful movepool with little to capitalize on. Getting past Brock with only Pound and Disable is going to be an issue. Addtionally, because Grimer doesn't learn Mega Punch, you have to wait until the SS Anne to get Body Slam. You'll most likely be using this move the entire run. Several gym leaders are going to be an issue as well most notably Sabrina. You'll need to get lucky in that fight in order to set up enough hardens to out speed her Pokemon which is very unlikely due to Grimer's abysmal special and speed stat. Giovanni can also be a pain for once unless you've decided to actually use Mega Drain.

 

[Modulo]

A quick note:
It has come to my attention that I apparently miscalculated Weedle's Poison Sting damage vs. Agatha and that it actually is not impossible to beat her with the 56 Poison Stings available to you. (Source:

starting at 30:06)
According to the runner's commentary, the fight took nearly 1.000 tries because not only do you need a large amount of crits (more than your base 20 Speed would allow for on average), but you also need to not die, which can be tough given Supersonic as well as Hypnosis + Dream Eater.

I would still consider Weedle to be in Impossible simply because a win vs. Agatha comes down to a very low luck chance and there's some other problematic fights for it (such as Giovanni, where you have almost no HP to spare since you have to struggle through both Nidos and Rhydon, or Lorelei, whose Dewgong you have to crit with Poison Sting three times in a row thanks to Rest and Good AI), but I think this is notable.



EDIT: Grimer absolutely needs Mega Drain to get past Onix and Rhydon IMO; its best moveset is something along the lines of Body Slam/Thunderbolt/Mega Drain/Harden.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

On a side note what makes Vulpix so much worse than other Fire-types like Growlithe or Charmander?

 

[BP]

On a side note what makes Vulpix so much worse than other Fire-types like Growlithe or Charmander?

Vulpix is generally outclassed in the fact that its Movepool is astoundingly poor and it struggles throughout the game. The only stat boosting move it gets is Double Team and I'm not entirely sure if that affects the Badge Boost glitch or not.

Growlithe and Charmander have better stats, a better movepool, and access to Badge Boost Glitch moves.

 

[Modulo]

Nominating Venonat for F-tier.

Venonat has a terrible earlygame with Tackle being its only form of offense until Psybeam at level 35; meaning Brock and Misty's Starmie (which resists Psychic moves) are really tough opponents. Sleep Powder at 38 is a saving grace, but you still play suffer games until Celadon where you can FINALLY upgrade Tackle to Double-Edge. The lategame should be more forgiving - Normal/Psychic is decent coverage and Sleep Powder really cushions the lack of a badge-boost move. Still, the early suffering period seems really bad to handle.

 

[BP]

Nominating Venonat for F-tier.

I recreated E-tier and moved it there along with all the pokemon formerly in F-Tier. I then removed Weedle from Impossible and moved it to F.

 

[NaturalTropius]

Vulpix is generally outclassed in the fact that its Movepool is astoundingly poor and it struggles throughout the game. The only stat boosting move it gets is Double Team and I'm not entirely sure if that affects the Badge Boost glitch or not.

Growlithe and Charmander have better stats, a better movepool, and access to Badge Boost Glitch moves.

Eh. Growlithe honestly seems like it would suffer more than Vulpix. I just finished a Vulpix one and the problem isn't "throughout". It's Lance. With Growlithe, you have to get to level 18 for Ember, and thus, a solid shot at Brock. Vulpix has Ember from the get-go.

Moves that Growlithe gets that Vulpix doesn't:
Bite
Leer
Agility (this one's absolutely CRUCIAL)
Dragon Rage

Moves that Vulpix gets that Growlithe doesn't:
Fire Spin (Gen 1 Fire Spin helps a lot)
Quick Attack (I got rid of it for Body Slam on the S. S. Anne)
Confuse Ray (I got rid of it for Fire Spin at level 42)
Tail Whip

The other thing to understand is when Growlithe and Vulpix get Flamethrower, which isn't a TM in Gen 1.
Vulpix gets it at level 35.
Growlithe gets it at level 50. For reference, with Vulpix, I hit level 35 on Route 8 heading to Celadon. I hit level 50 during Rival Fievel. The time in between there, while not critical, is still not fun to get through with just Ember.

Vulpix has 65 Special, Growlithe has 50. Again, for reference, Lance's Gyarados' Hydro Pump is a range for an OHKO. Growlithe has more HP, yes. But I'm not trying to say that Vulpix is better, I'm trying to say that they're a lot less different.

Lance wrecks both of 'em. Growlithe can maybe deal with it a little better if it tanks a Hydro Pump, but I doubt it can do much even with Agility.

Vulpix is also marginally faster and, due to the Special, more powerful.

Images of Gym Battles and the like

(I didn't screenshot Brock, Erika, Giovanni, "Lorelee" (cue ice theme), or "Pathetic excuse for an Elite Four member")

this was close

rival fievel

rival 6

agatha was kinda ez ngl

I know this is just my experience, but Vulpix isn't E-tier. It never really struggled outside of Misty, Lorelei, and Lance. Fire/Ground/Normal coverage is solid (although Flying- and Dragon- Pokemon aren't easy, and Aerodactyl at best resists all three) and helps it really shine in a lot of battles- and Fire Spin, while cheesy, is still a good way of turning, for instance, a Body Slam 3HKO into a 2HKO. It's CERTAINLY better than Paras, I'll tell you that. Having Growlithe in B and Vulpix in E is just plain wrong. Outclassed, maybe, but a tier list judges each on their own merits. Viability's where outclassed comes into play.

(Vulpix: final level: 78. Used speed-up, so time was out of whack and thus does not apply. Moveset: Flamethrower/Fire Spin/Body Slam/Dig. IVs were 5/12/15/13/14, which is really darn lucky)

I'd be happy to give Growlithe a try tomorrow to really try and cement it.

 

[NaturalTropius]

Okay. So I did a solo run w/ Growlithe, and here are my thoughts.

I'll be comparing it to Vulpix as well as judging it on its own ability to complete the game.

First of all, Brock. While Vulpix starts with Ember and thus can take out Brock at a relatively low level, Growlithe is stuck with Bite and Roar (which, in Gen 1 trainer battles, is nothing more than a PP-waster to use while Onix Bides) and thus struggles to defeat him until it reaches a higher level. Mine was around level 16, as opposed to around 11 to 13 that Vulpix was (i forget). And this was a lot less fun, relying on critical hits and flinches. It's more comparable to something like Pikachu at this point.

But like Pikachu, once you're not dealing not-very-effective damage, the game opens up a lot more, and it catches up to Vulpix. It was at the same level when it defeated Misty (although I had already taken out Rival 2 and 3, unlike Vulpix, where I just beat 2). Misty was easier- having Body Slam and Dig alongside a 70 base attack (Vulpix has 41) made Starmie a much easier fight.

Surge was a pushover w/ Dig. Really, anything that can be somewhat fast and can learn Dig just annihilates Surge.

Now here's the interesting bit. It took me a long time to hit that level 50 to get Flamethrower. This means Erika's gym actually gave me some difficulty, with Wrap/Sleep Powder almost taking out Growlithe twice. Rival 4 was a joke, and so was Giovanni.

But with that negative comes the positive of Agility. Honestly, although it helped a lot in taking out some battles, it wasn't like Vulpix had any trouble with most of those either. Koga almost took me out- once again leaving me on 2 HP. Rival Fievel gave me some difficulty, but it was mostly due to leveling up right before Blastoise. I didn't even have to use Agility for Blaine- everything was a one-shot with Dig, and that's around the point I got Flamethrower. This helped a lot with Sabrina and Giovanni (also aided w/ Badge Boost Glitch).

Yet it wasn't smooth sailing here. Rival 6 was oddly harder than Rival Fievel- Blastoise getting Hydro Pump being a major factor. Hydro Pump wrecks both of them. I recommend, if you want to do it Jrose-style, instead going with replacing Bulbasaur rather than Charmander; as while Blastoise is dangerous, Charizard isn't easy like Arcanine, Exeggutor, or Venusaur are, and having to take on not just three Pokemon with Hydro Pump, but five- Rival 4 and Fievel- would make it a lot rougher.

The Elite Four, honestly, were basically the same for both, except for one thing. Growlithe was at a lower level- six levels lower when I defeated Blue- and thus it seems that it does better on average. But that doesn't mean it was easy!

Lance is almost as luck-based as an arcade claw machine, and all of that is due to, let's say it together, Hydro Pump. It oneshot Growlithe until around level 65, and usually when it hit, I couldn't win, as the Dragonairs would often end up chipping away at my health until Aerodactyl swooped in for the kill. But, once again, I got lucky and landed a crit while it missed, and beat Lance relatively easily (Dragonite spammed Barrier).

Champion, Blastoise exempted, was easy. Blastoise was also a luckfest- hoping for Withdraw or something that wasn't a Hydro Pump hit.

But I finished it. I doubt I'm going to do any more, because these things can get tedious. And I just did two!

Here are the images. Growlithe was level 72, with the moves Flamethrower/Body Slam/Agility/Dig, and comparable IVs to Vulpix that I don't want to have to go check PKHex to remember.

Images of Gym Battles and the like, number two

I missed Brock and Pushover.

'

Time matters a little more, but I'm slow with these. Take 'em with a grain of salt. I ended at around 10 in-game hours (Brock took a while, and I was at 4x speed for the majority of it)

I'd say C for Growlithe, and higher C for Vulpix. This given that we're doing subtiers, which I doubt we are, but this should clarify it. Growlithe had too many hard battles to be up there with Pikachu and Bulbasaur, and the same with Vulpix- although Vulpix can't abuse the Badge Boost Glitch, it has the moves to keep it going throughout the main game- and aside from Lance, it wasn't ever really stopped at anything. It did worse at Misty and maybe Agatha, but Growlithe did much worse at Brock, Erika, and Rival 6, despite on average having better fights than Vulpix.

Is that confusing? I dunno.

tl;dr Vulpix and Growlithe did about the same. Growlithe had really low lows, but on average was pretty good. Vulpix didn't reach the lows of Growlithe, but was generally a touch worse at most points.

 

[BP]

tl;dr Vulpix and Growlithe did about the same. Growlithe had really low lows, but on average was pretty good. Vulpix didn't reach the lows of Growlithe, but was generally a touch worse at most points.

I greatly appreciate you actually doing a run through with each. I greatly appreciate your contribution to the thread m8. I'll be moving Vulpix to C rank along with Growlithe. Cheers M8

 

[Warstorck]

Finished my first Solo Run today and my Pokemon was Shellder. It was quite brutal in the early game and being in the Slow Level up group is quite annoying but once you get Tri Attack and Ice Beam it's actually quite good. So yeah B tier probably sounds right but it feels like D until you get past Misty.

 

[Gym Leader Matt]

Is this a dead discussion? If anyone can tell me if there’s a new place that would be great but this is the only tier discussion solo red/blue runs I can find on the Internet.

I’d like to add in my thoughts. I have 3 under my belt but we’ll start off with Slowpoke for now. I’ll say that I agree with B tier. It has the best typing, with the best moves, and isn’t specifically weak to any Elite 4. Erika’s Victreebel is the runs biggest road block and you have to save it for last.

You certainly will be outsped since Slowpoke has the worst base speed but, to not sound too cliche, it’s a slow and steady run that gets you to the finish line without any hard walls or excessive grinding. B is a good spot because of that and I can’t put it higher due to that.

Overall, anything that has psychic typing, has amnesia, STAB psychic, and STAB surf will always make a solid Pokémon.

I’m going to cut up some footage for Clefairy and Cubone in the coming days and if anyone is around, feel free to discuss some. I don’t want this to be dead.

 

[Gym Leader Matt]

Finished my first Solo Run today and my Pokemon was Shellder. It was quite brutal in the early game and being in the Slow Level up group is quite annoying but once you get Tri Attack and Ice Beam it's actually quite good. So yeah B tier probably sounds right but it feels like D until you get past Misty.

This is the kind of information that I love. I see the tiers at the top but I often wonder how they came to the conclusion.

Thank you for the information. Makes sense why it’s held back from ‘A’ tier but your explanation let’s use know why it’s still solid and where it’s at.