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Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Speedrunning still had plenty of engagement and devoted people in the early 2010's.
However, the routes don't really use body slam, so it likely didnt come up often. I'd be surprised is the speedrunners knew earlier than competitive.

Also worth noting, speedrunners found the manipulation mechanics around the same time as the body slam para discovery. This makes me think people were starting to tear apart the code around then (2014/2015), leading to major discoveries in the subsequent years (so neither group really was ahead of the other).
I'm sure plenty others know better than me though, Hip included.
 
Is there much reason to use Golduck in OU? The only tangible advantage I can see over the other Amnesia spammers is being by far the fastest one. Maybe you can do some sort of Amnesia-spam team using it?
 
Amaranth said:
I used it a bunch and I think it's one of the very best D tiers, Amnesia is strong and can break teams if given time, but it needs Hydro Pump to actually get past Starmie/Chansey and the low accuracy sucks. Hypnosis threat can be fun but I've found that it's far too frail to use sleep moves reliably, it's best used as a midgame breaker sort of pokemon. Amnesia HydroPump Surf Blizzard is its best set imo. Not all of these replays showcase Poliwrath's qualities, but they give you a good picture of what playing with Poliwrath can/should look like, what it's good at, what it's bad at, etc

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-595706
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1345934486
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1338125648
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1329915705
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1341098077-55ouuergr4xs8giwy2o2j8aj5k6s30epw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-559974
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-561407

I also trialed Golduck in a similar role but I've found that the lower physical bulk is just awful as it is so much more vulnerable to Tauros revengekills,but if you want there's a few more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1432749907
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1358073171
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357526039
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357524236

I think Poliwrath is too unreliable for high level play, but if played properly it can take games from anybody
Click to expand...
See here for my report on Poliwrath and Golduck in OU based on quite a bit of experimenting last year. TLDR Poliwrath probably better despite psychic weakness, both probably not good enough for serious play
 
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About that Amnesia thing.
Sometimes beginners like me (yep, I admit I'm a beginner too, don't take my words too seriously) after watching some FSG videos treat Amnesia as a magical auto-win button. And of course it's not.

I currently struggle in Ubers, I think I got a little better, started winning some matches and no longer lose my points that badly. And Ubers is home for the best Amnesia user - Mewtwo.

Amnesia is useful when fighting something slow an bulky, cos it's Gen 1, +6 that won't go over 999 points will only OHKO anything if it's super effective, and in Gen 1 OU and Ubers pretty much nothing is super effective, it's mostly neutral damage.

And you don't want to use Amnesia more than once. In my limited experience, it applies to any boosting move, you will simply fall into Hyper Beam KO range if you use it more than once, with only exception that comes to my mind is Swords Dance Mew when Tauros is not around. This might be just my low experience issue, but to me even Mew with 100 both base defenses and HP seems ALMOST too fragile for a boosting move. I noticed I started playing much more aggressively, I usually go SD-EQ-Exp. Or straight to Explosion after one SD boost, finish the fool with Mewtwo if necessary.

The thing I LOVE about more recent generations, despite my favorite pokemon all being bad (except maybe Slowbro) in them, is that you no longer need boosting moves, you just hold Choice Specs and win. I mean, ok, ok, you not just win, you win one match-up, and than lose the battle, but at least it's fun for a couple seconds (almost as fun as boosted Explosion)
 
I know I can't name my Electrode "Regieleki" despite neither 'eleki nor Beat Up being present in Gen 1, but can I hint moves in nicknames? For example, I name my Mew "Bomb Master", my opponent assumes I run SB, SD, BS and Exp, brings in Gengar - only to watch it swallow my boosted Earthquake I googled "smogon nickmame rules" and found nothing.
 
How the Alakazam vs. Rhydon match-ups usually go?
I know for a fact that Rhydon can switch in safely on Lead Zam, as it always want to TWave. After that, even though Alakazam outspeeds, it does not have a guaranteed 2HKO with Psychic, while Don's Quake has. However, Alakazam has a pretty high chance to either crit or special drop, making the second Psychic a sure kill.
But reading previous posts and their analyses, it seems that Alakazam doesn't like facing Rhydon. Why so?
 
First of all lead Zam doesn’t always want to twave turn 1, since depending on your sleeper that could give your opponent a free sleep blocker. Also switching turn 1 means zam wont be paralyzed which could be helpful later in the game. Because of this rhydon isn’t a safe switch-in to lead Zam at all. Zam vs Rhydon is generally an unessecarily risky matchup for both sides so it’s rarely seen in practice. There’s so much RNG involved, such as zam critting, psychic special dropping, or rhydon paralyzing zam with body slam. Generally the winner of the exchange will be severely crippled. The reason why the analysis says zam doesn’t like facing rhydon is because of its paper-thin defense, which rhydon can exploit with STAB earthquake, and rhydon has the chance to paralyze with body slam. If zam is paralyzed it just straight up loses too.
 
GermanK13 said:
How the Alakazam vs. Rhydon match-ups usually go?
I know for a fact that Rhydon can switch in safely on Lead Zam, as it always want to TWave. After that, even though Alakazam outspeeds, it does not have a guaranteed 2HKO with Psychic, while Don's Quake has. However, Alakazam has a pretty high chance to either crit or special drop, making the second Psychic a sure kill.
But reading previous posts and their analyses, it seems that Alakazam doesn't like facing Rhydon. Why so?
Click to expand...
Just like other guys said, Alakazam isn't always using Thunder Wave on turn 1. Also, Rhydon is mostly a late-game threat (when its counters like Exeggutor or, to a lesser degree, Starmie are removed ar at least crippled), so there's no reason to talk about lead Alakazam and Rhydon in the same breath. Alakazam is weak to Rhydon later in the game, when you assume Alakazam to be paralyzed: Rhydon can safely switch into predicted Thunder Wave, Recover (fishing for FP), or even Seismic Toss.
My guess is that in a fresh 1v1 Alakazam has the upper hand thanks to a 48% chance to 2HKO plus critical hits and special drops, Rhydon answers with Body Slam for paralysis chance followed by Earthquake for the guaranteed KO.
 
How come OldShark battles for RBY are fought at level 100? Isn't the technical limit for these games 255?

Also Azure Heights implies you can hack pokemon to have 999 in each stat (gets erased if the Pokemon is sent to the PC box iirc)
 
Melbelle said:
It's mostly Zam can't be a great switch-in to Rhydon like Exeggutor or Starmie in a pinch can. But in a scenario of fully healthy Zam vs fully healthy Don yes Zam wins more often.

To elaborate a lil more on why Zam doesn't like TWaving turn 1 often, in high level play early paralysis can lead to struggling to get sleep, which is an incredibly powerful status. TWave turn 1 is mostly a play you either do if you scout someone and have a plan, or just what a lot of lower ladder players tend to do. Chansey especially is great at taking status and preventing sleep, DEdg is rarely enough to muscle sleep through Chansey and booming isn't great either (since you trade being able to get sleep off for Chansey, which I'd argue is a bad trade for you due to how good sleep is).
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So, you mean, if something threatens with sleep, I switch Chansey in, and than switch it against opponent's Chansey cos the biggest damage it can do to me is 100 HP with Seismic Toss, and I can, like, 90% of the time survive all the sleep turns? That's interesting... I used to just put the least valuable team member to sleep like Alakazam, Jynx or Gengar cos I don't play them well and they just aren't as impactful on my team - yeah, low ladder player's problem: your opponent's the same pokemon feels like it's twice as fast and hits twice as hard:(
 
specialstat said:
So, you mean, if something threatens with sleep, I switch Chansey in, and than switch it against opponent's Chansey cos the biggest damage it can do to me is 100 HP with Seismic Toss, and I can, like, 90% of the time survive all the sleep turns? That's interesting... I used to just put the least valuable team member to sleep like Alakazam, Jynx or Gengar cos I don't play them well and they just aren't as impactful on my team - yeah, low ladder player's problem: your opponent's the same pokemon feels like it's twice as fast and hits twice as hard:(
Click to expand...
no thats not what they mean
you want chansey to take para so then chansey cant get slept
you want to put your lead to sleep if you dont have a sleepblocker in time
you do not want your chansey slept at all because then you just crumble against every single special attacker
in niche scenarios that can be a play but it is not "the play"
 
Tree69420 said:
no thats not what they mean
you want chansey to take para so then chansey cant get slept
you want to put your lead to sleep if you dont have a sleepblocker in time
you do not want your chansey slept at all because then you just crumble against every single special attacker
Click to expand...
Now it got less interesting:( I know paralysis saves from sleep and freeze, and helps in stall wars, use it in Ubers. Than what exactly did they mean by "since you trade being able to get sleep off for Chansey"?
Can you give some examples of sleepblockers? I might horribly misunderstand the "-blocker" part, but isn't it Gen 1, where Electric types can get Thunder Waved, Grass Types can get Sleep Powdered, Substitute doesn't work, and just in general nothing switches safely into nothing (except Gengar)?
 
Tree69420 said:
no thats not what they mean
you want chansey to take para so then chansey cant get slept
you want to put your lead to sleep if you dont have a sleepblocker in time
you do not want your chansey slept at all because then you just crumble against every single special attacker
in niche scenarios that can be a play but it is not "the play"
Click to expand...
Can you please just translate this to English?
"Chansey especially is great at taking status and preventing sleep, DEdg is rarely enough to muscle sleep through Chansey and booming isn't great either (since you trade being able to get sleep off for Chansey, which I'd argue is a bad trade for you due to how good sleep is)"

I have no idea what DEdg means. Can be Double Edge, but I don't see how that niche move can help to "muscle speep through Chansey". And what that even mean?Seriously, that game jargon... Like, if Chansey is asleep, it's done with like 1 Earthquake, if my pokemon is asleep, it can't do sh*t. Who's muscling? And by now I'm no longer sure I got "booming" right, cos I kinda don't see how exploding on Chansey, if they even meant exploding and not something I'm unaware of, is a bad trade, cos just how annoying Chansey is to deal with. Since I'm gonna lose anyways, better lose fast
 
specialstat said:
Can you please just translate this to English?
"Chansey especially is great at taking status and preventing sleep, DEdg is rarely enough to muscle sleep through Chansey and booming isn't great either (since you trade being able to get sleep off for Chansey, which I'd argue is a bad trade for you due to how good sleep is)"

I have no idea what DEdg means. Can be Double Edge, but I don't see how that niche move can help to "muscle speep through Chansey". And what that even mean?Seriously, that game jargon... Like, if Chansey is asleep, it's done with like 1 Earthquake, if my pokemon is asleep, it can't do sh*t. Who's muscling? And by now I'm no longer sure I got "booming" right, cos I kinda don't see how exploding on Chansey, if they even meant exploding and not something I'm unaware of, is a bad trade, cos just how annoying Chansey is to deal with. Since I'm gonna lose anyways, better lose fast
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yes dedge is double edge which is the main last move on egg due to how it pushes sleep past jynx sleepblocking and can often push it past zam too (paralyzed jynx and zam cannot sit on egg)
exeggutor cannot get through a parad chansey most the time which is what they mean by muscling sleep past chansey
and egg exploding on chansey before sleep means you cant get sleep, while they possibly can or already have
 
Tree69420 said:
yes dedge is double edge which is the main last move on egg due to how it pushes sleep past jynx sleepblocking and can often push it past zam too (paralyzed jynx and zam cannot sit on egg)
exeggutor cannot get through a parad chansey most the time which is what they mean by muscling sleep past chansey
and egg exploding on chansey before sleep means you cant get sleep, while they possibly can or already have
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Oh, sorry, I forgot Exeggutor exists:) Yes, it's not a niche move on Exeggutor. But I'm still more used to Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Explosion, Psychic set.
Thank you for translation, now I get what they meant. One thing though that is a little surprising to me is that, if not to deal with something scary like Chansey, what else using sleep for? Sometimes it's good to stop something fast and strong like Tauros, but than they always bring something I no longer have answer for, and I'm like: "I just wasted my last chance..."
 
specialstat said:
Oh, sorry, I forgot Exeggutor exists:) Yes, it's not a niche move on Exeggutor. But I'm still more used to Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Explosion, Psychic set.
Thank you for translation, now I get what they meant. One thing though that is a little surprising to me is that, if not to deal with something scary like Chansey, what else using sleep for? Sometimes it's good to stop something fast and strong like Tauros, but than they always bring something I no longer have answer for, and I'm like: "I just wasted my last chance..."
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they want to sleep your chansey but you dont want that to happen
no good player is gonna let you sleep their tauros
 
Tree69420 said:
they want to sleep your chansey but you dont want that to happen
no good player is gonna let you sleep their tauros
Click to expand...
I'm still low ladder, I don't face good players:) Ok, maybe Tauros was a bad example. I usually struggle to deal with Starmie, so I might switch Jynx in to try to Lovely Kiss it and stop that Recover madness. I'm usually short on Electric moves cos that's my second least favorite type, and I use Jynx because it's my favorite non-legendary. I'm being Youngster Joey:)
 
specialstat said:
I'm still low ladder, I don't face good players:) Ok, maybe Tauros was a bad example. I usually struggle to deal with Starmie, so I might switch Jynx in to try to Lovely Kiss it and stop that Recover madness. I'm usually short on Electric moves cos that's my second least favorite type, and I use Jynx because it's my favorite non-legendary. I'm being Youngster Joey:)
Click to expand...
you lead jynx and kiss turn 1
 
specialstat said:
I only Lovely Kiss lead Starmie or Alakazam.

I'm low ladder, here the lead can also be:
- Tauros -> Counter;
- Exeggutor -> Blizzard, take Sleep Powder;
- Gengar -> Psychic, take Hypnosis;
- Zapdos is strangely common -> double Blizzard and it's done.
Click to expand...
you should kiss all of those
 
specialstat said:
But sleep clause would than prevent me from kissing something more valuable. Why kiss something I have little trouble dealing with?
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You're never going to kiss anything if your Jynx is taking Sleep Powder or Hypnosis. If you have a secondary sleeper attacking into Gengar and Exeggutor is a bit more justified, but most Jynx teams usually have it as a solo sleeper, so you have to cut your losses and sleep whatever is in front of you most of the time.

Also, as a general concept, you can't get sleep after you twave (assuming the opponent absorbs it with something like Chansey or Starmie, since they easily wall most if not all relevant sleepers) - so you should hurry to get sleep quickly whenever you're in a decent position to do so, then move on to your para spread gameplay. This is assuming you run standard Chansey+Snorlax structures of course, wackier teams can have wackier game plans, but the standard game of RBY involves sleep followed by paralysis followed by piling on offensive pressure through Snorlax.
 
Just gonna add support to specialstat here. All of those moves are totally valid, and should generally be the preferred option when you predict your opponent to stay in.

If you predict your opponent to switch, you should probably lovely kiss, but, even then, the downside is pretty minimal. Like, Blizzarding a Starmie coming in to replace Eggy is kinda just a free shot at a freeze.
 
Hipmonlee said:
Just gonna add support to specialstat here. All of those moves are totally valid, and should generally be the preferred option when you predict your opponent to stay in.

If you predict your opponent to switch, you should probably lovely kiss, but, even then, the downside is pretty minimal. Like, Blizzarding a Starmie coming in to replace Eggy is kinda just a free shot at a freeze.
Click to expand...
Well with Zapdos yes, because Zapdos just dies. But with Eggy I would happily make the case that losing your Jynx to sleep powder or even explosion is very much unfavorable (again, assuming no backup sleep) and with Gengar even moreso. If you have another sleeper you are freed up to attack and take the crit KO chance a lot more often in these scenarios
 
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