OU RBY OU Discussion Thread

Alright I suppose I was wrong in calling the 1hko ban a mod, but what I’m trying to say is compromises have already been made. Like the examples you gave of frz and dsinc mods. That line has already been crossed so saying that rby tries to be accurate to cart even though it isn’t seems odd to me.
You mentioned cartridge tours, I personally am unaware of how relevant cartridge is. I was under the assumption that virtually everything was done over sims but either way again that line has been crossed.

I agree that para is more common than the ghost or flying type but just because those paralyzed Pokémon don’t have to worry about frz doesn’t make them all safe they’re just opened up to new threats. Also in a scenario where 1hkos are an option ghost and flying types may be valued more than they are currently to compensate.

your point on Pokémon that Lear both types of 1hkos I have to say that as mentioned earlier picking up one 1hko can be restrictive to a move set, picking up two 1hkos would undoubtedly be restrictive. I was thinking of using a Tauros moveset as an example but I think Tauros may not even want to use 1hkos, blizzard and earthquake may just prove to be better options. Anyways what is important to take away from the interactive argument is that there is counterplay. It exists, there are checks, if there is interaction than you can’t objectively say it’s nothing but rng and disregard it.

And again I’ve suggested a limit to 1 per player per game so this idea that everyone is going to get swept is not what I’m taking about.

I do agree that a frozen Pokémon can be useful, I would say that taking an explosion or piviting in between attacks is a more relevant example. But this does not invalidatethe Point I’ve made about detrimental situation where you are force to take an attack on switch or give the opponent an opportunity to heal/set up. - and just briefly how realistic of an Option is thawing? Not even fire spin from moltres the most viable Pokémon to consistently carry fire types (I believe) thaws. In my experience a frz is a dead poke.
 
Sorry, but what is the point of adding OHKO moves to the meta? What benefits do they add? It seems like you’re asking to add them because they exist. If they weren’t in the game already I don’t know anyone who would think that adding them would be a good idea at all.
 
Sorry, but what is the point of adding OHKO moves to the meta? What benefits do they add? It seems like you’re asking to add them because they exist. If they weren’t in the game already I don’t know anyone who would think that adding them would be a good idea at all.
As I’ve pointed out multiple times this is not a singular argument in favor of unbanning 1hkos but rather a consideration of why frz is deemed acceptable but 1hkos are not. I really don’t want to repeat myself but you asked. The general reasoning is that 1hkos are not completely luck based there is built in interaction in the form of type checks and speed checks both things that the countering player can control. And as for potential benefits I’ve also touched on this but Again it would be to introduce new Pokémon into the format like a lead dugtrio or new approaches in threatening things that set up and sit like reflect snorlax. Thanks for not reading my posts.
 
to simplify an answer to your primary question:
FRZ is allowed because it is a secondary effect that happens when using most ice-type moves. It's an inseparable (w/o mods) part of a central part of the game.
OHKOs are banned because they do exactly one thing, and that one thing has been agreed to not add significant value to the game. Further, we can easily ban them w/o mods.

I'll reiterate Pea's point from here: if you want to change the status quo, you'll need to convince the community the game will be better for it (which will be hard to do, but likening it to frz is not an effective strategy). I'll not be engaging in this further, but you do you.
 
"I don't even know how OHKO moves work in RBY but let me tell you why I think they're competitive"

Can we not do this annoying discussion for the 30th time, peasounay was completely correct and there's nothing else to discuss. This would exclusively make RBY less competitive and less fun

Edit: Fixed the quote command, I think

Playing devil’s advocate in spite of saying I think OHKO moves are fine, I will iterate that I think Gen 1 (RBY) OU is in a relatively good spot right now, and that major changes like these, even if I would welcome them, probably don’t need to happen. Realistically there’s plenty of negatives from doing such a thing regardless of the amount of positives. I will also iterate that I haven’t been here on this thread for very long so I’m not caught up on what conversations would be taking place before I got here. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused. You guys should be good to continue your discussions now.

Another edit: In my defense I did say in advance my opinions would be horrible :)
 
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Hey look like I said I have no expectations of change, I just felt this was worth bringing up as it’s something I do believe, and I suppose I’m glad I at least got to voice my opinions even if to a tuff crowd. Last thing I’ll say before I leave you all alone is that the reasoning for not being able to mod when you already have doesn’t check out imo.
 
Who so you use CloyDon (Laxless) into? I've seen it about and tinkered about around with it but I still don't know what it does well into
 
Who so you use CloyDon (Laxless) into? I've seen it about and tinkered about around with it but I still don't know what it does well into
dropping lax only ever makes sense into scouts that are heavy on lax hate - if you're playing against super high icelax, backgar, and/or counter chansey, you may enjoy not having a snorlax and instead having mons that dunk on those sets (rhydon can use backgar and stoss counter twave chansey for free entry, cloy's safe vs icelax)

i'm not personally a big fan in general, but there exist scouts where it makes some sense
 
Does anyone have any advice for how to get involved with tournaments to get better at RBY? I want to try to mix in some tournament play with my usual laddering.

Looking through threads about RBYPL V and Rising Stars II kinda confused me about the format of these things. Some questions I have:

- Are team tournaments a good way to start?
- Over how long of a period do tournaments usually last and what is the time commitment like? Would I be able to choose times that work for me to play my matches (I work full time)
- Any recommendations for stuff coming up that would be good for a first tournament?

Thanks so much!
 
- Are team tournaments a good way to start?

No, things like team tournaments and Rising Stars aren't good entry points and are for mid-range to advanced players. If you haven't played individual tournaments before you are almost certainly not going to get drafted for a team tournament or invited to an invitational like Rising Stars. What you want to look for is non-invitational tournaments like the seasonals, RBY Cup, etc. as well as play games with better players such as via the RBY Discord.

- Over how long of a period do tournaments usually last and what is the time commitment like? Would I be able to choose times that work for me to play my matches (I work full time)
Most individual tournaments you play 1 game per week and you schedule it with your opponent, so yes, you can give a set of times that work for you and coordinate with your opponent. Most individual tournaments are either single elimination (you play till you lose a round) or double elimination (you play till 2 losses). As a newer player you can probably expect to play 1-4 rounds of a tournament but that increases the better you get.

- Any recommendations for stuff coming up that would be good for a first tournament?

You're kind of in the team tournament season because RBYPL is the big RBY team tournament, but there's always RBY Fight Club for quicker, smaller tournaments year-round, I'd recommend that and also RBY Discord.
 
No, things like team tournaments and Rising Stars aren't good entry points and are for mid-range to advanced players. If you haven't played individual tournaments before you are almost certainly not going to get drafted for a team tournament or invited to an invitational like Rising Stars. What you want to look for is non-invitational tournaments like the seasonals, RBY Cup, etc. as well as play games with better players such as via the RBY Discord.


Most individual tournaments you play 1 game per week and you schedule it with your opponent, so yes, you can give a set of times that work for you and coordinate with your opponent. Most individual tournaments are either single elimination (you play till you lose a round) or double elimination (you play till 2 losses). As a newer player you can probably expect to play 1-4 rounds of a tournament but that increases the better you get.



You're kind of in the team tournament season because RBYPL is the big RBY team tournament, but there's always RBY Fight Club for quicker, smaller tournaments year-round, I'd recommend that and also RBY Discord.
Appreciate all the info and thanks for the suggestions!
 
As a ladder grunt that probably never plays a tournament

Generally the further away from the cartridges the less good things are
Sleep and freeze clause are fine because you could imagine them being like "house rules". Both rules are necessary because otherwise sleep is devastating and freeze could be devastating.
Freeze is fine as is, because no-one seems to run "freeze teams". It's more of a slight buff to a couple of ice types (eg Articuno sweeping ability is slightly enhanced, because you could crit or freeze something). Freeze teams are too inconsistent.
OHKO for me is kinda borderline. It allows situations where, say the game comes down to a 1v1 Tauros v Tauros, your opponent has 2% HP you have 100%, your opponent has a 15% chance to win (50% speed tie, then 30% chance of fissure landing). To be in a winning position like that, you can say that you earnt that by playing better, but it can just be taken away from you in a single move. Is that situation fair ? If the last mon is Dugtrio with fissure its basically one player wins at least 30% of the time ?
OHKO potential users Dugtrio already has like 23% chance at crit EQ which is significantly more consistent than OHKO. Dugtrio can't take hits though which prevents you from switching it in early. If we assume chip damage already, fissures payoff is marginally better than crit EQ.
Tauros looses coverage. Drop blizzard and you struggle more against Zapdos, drop EQ and suddenly Gengar is a problem.
Rapidash is notable for agility and 105 speed. It also can often die in 2 hits itself.
A lot of other pokemon at that point will struggle to take hits, leaving OHKO teams better than freeze teams (30% is higher than 10%). But if OHKO teams are good enough to use and by their own nature are inconsistent, then we get more randomness thrown into results, which is probably not a good outcome.

I do wish dig/fly were patched (like, turn one max evasion, turn two hit or turn one invulnerable, turn two move always completes but has higher chance to miss if paralyzed or something). There are mons that would appreciate it.
A couple of fire types that could then scare off ghosts - Arcanine, Ninetales
A couple of water types that could then scare off electrics- Blastoise, Golduck (lol), technically slowbro but who is doing that.
Ratitcate has a (finishing) option against ghosts
Aerodactyl, Articuno and Moltres appreciate a flying stab. Makes switching chansey in less brain dead of an option (because if you click fly when they switch, chansey takes significant damage, unless you double switch but then you are just giving up free damage).
Most imporantly Raichu can run fly/submission/surf/tbolt so it can hit bug/fighting/grass/ice/normal/rock/fire/ground/flying/water for super effective damage.
 
As a ladder grunt that probably never plays a tournament

Generally the further away from the cartridges the less good things are
Sleep and freeze clause are fine because you could imagine them being like "house rules". Both rules are necessary because otherwise sleep is devastating and freeze could be devastating.

I do wish dig/fly were patched (like, turn one max evasion, turn two hit or turn one invulnerable, turn two move always completes but has higher chance to miss if paralyzed or something). There are mons that would appreciate it.

I don't know what you mean by cartridge or house rules.
Banning moves like OHKO or Dig/Fly are like house rules - "Don't bring X move to the tournament"
Modding the game so specific moves or mechanics work differently isn't a house rule, it's a mod. You can't do these changes by everyone just agreeing to do it; you can't reasonably house rule freeze clause. I am aware of recreating the battle up until that point, but that's not really something you would actually do in a irl cart tournament.

Weird post
 
I mean if you played freeze clause without mods surely if it occurred would you not just restart an entirely new battle at that point ? I mean if I was organiser I would play it like that and as a player just accept that as the best solution. Same goes for dig/fly glitch.
 
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