Pet Mod RBY CAP (CAP 3 - Competitive Learnset)

DuoM2

DuoM2

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This project is in no way affiliated with the official Smogon CAP Project.
Welcome to RBY CAP!​

I'm sure most of you using this website know what CAP is, and I'm sure most of you know what RBY means. For those of you who don't know, CAP is a project that aims to slowly and collaboratively add competitive Fakemon to the newest generation of Pokemon. They focus on guaranteeing quality as opposed to having raw numbers, so it will take a long time to even add a single Fakemon. RBY is the abbreviation of the first generation of Pokemon, so it goes without saying that this is a project that takes the idea of CAP and applies it to Generation 1 OU.

Adding Pokemon:
CAP is done in slates, and RBY CAP will be done similarly. In order to get one Fakemon added, it will need to go through each of the following slates...
  • Concept. We'll need to define an ideally unique concept for a Fakemon that could provide something unique and balanced for the Gen 1 OU meta.
  • Typing. We'll need to know what the ideal typing for a Fakemon would be to execute the described concept. This would also define much of its possible matchup spread.
  • Stats, and then
  • Competitive Learnset. These two slates should both build on the concept of the Fakemon. Rule of thumb, moves should be a part of its competitive learnset if they are expected to be run on every set or make more Pokemon into less safe answers when they otherwise would be.
  • Name and Art, and then
  • Remaining Flavor. Subject to change, but this will include things like weight, height, unimportant moves, and tradebacks moves. Basically, this slate and the one before it are for everything that will have no bearings on the average battle.
All of these will be discussed through around a week-long slate before final voting for a given slate begins.

Other:
  • NO CUSTOMS! Everything must already exist in Gen 1 minus the CAP Fakemon itself. No submitting Megahorn, no submitting a Steel-type, no submitting a new Fire-type move that works like Explosion, and so on. It's important to note that no alternate forms exist in Gen 1, so we will not be doing any concepts that use those.
  • In place of a fully dedicated Discord server, we will be using the #pet-mods room in the main RBY server linked here (click here). Please keep all discussion about RBY CAP in the #pet-mods room. There are also links for helpful resources for if you're new to RBY in the #learning-rby room, since RBY OU is drastically different from any new gen OU.
  • Click here for the spreadsheet!
Council:
:pikachu: DuoM2
:mew: May
:golbat: pac (on break)
:articuno: Paulluxx
 
Opening Slate - The Mod's Goal​

Before we truly get started, it would be best if we discussed what we should be aiming for with this Pet Mod. What all would you hope to see out of this Pet Mod as a competitive format? Let's talk about that now, bring forward your own thoughts and discuss others' as well!
 
DuoM2 said:
Before we truly get started, it would be best if we discussed what we should be aiming for with this Pet Mod. What all would you hope to see out of this Pet Mod as a competitive format? Let's talk about that now, bring forward your own thoughts and discuss others' as well!
Click to expand...
Ayo, we're up!

So, a thing I want to try and make clear-ish: RBY OU is a very old and very successful format, so a key thing to bring up for the uninitiated is that it doesn't need "fixing". I think what the aim should be here is to try and optimize certain areas with unfilled niches, rather than trying to make a new top tier that remakes the wheel. So we'd be sort of diversifying strategies, but keeping the ironclad teambuilder intact; eg. bringing up interactions that weren't previously possible, type combinations that can diversify offensive play, and overall producing Pokemon that bring obscure mechanics to the forefront should be the aim. For example, a Normal/Ground type would be difficult to paralyze without Stun Spore, so something like that could prove interesting in respect to making progress with status. Hell, maybe a lead that could contest the current freeze fishing some people are going for. However, a big "fuck off Chansey/Snorlax" button may end up changing the metagame too much and thus not be a good point of reference for metagame study, the opposite of what CAP aims to do. I suppose what I'm getting at is we should aim to produce B-tier Pokemon that aim to make something interesting rather than acting as some great revolutionaries. I think a metagame that can be seen as a more "colourful" RBY OU would be the play here. Restricted, but more diverse within the restrictions. Does that make sense?
 
(started this before the above post was live and they just said everything better than I could)

I think the goal of RBY CAP should be celebrating the unique intricacies of RBY, while also recognizing some unique 'what if' scenarios. Part of what I hope this conversation will include is how disruptive do we want our CAP-mons to be. RBY is very established and while we could easily create mons that are S/A+ tier mons, do we really want to? At the same time, is there a purpose in creating intentionally underpowered Pokemon for a format? A good CAP-mon, in my opinion, should be one that you'd slot on a team for reasons more than 'oh, I'm playing a mod with some Fakemon so I guess I better use some'.

Coming from a Past Gens Pet Mod lens, one of the things we intentionally preserved in Hoenn Gaiden was the emphasis on keystone features like perma sand and Spikes offense, and even after adding over 100 Pokemon to the tier, and abilities like Magic Guard and Snow Warning, Tyranitar is still our most used Pokemon by a substantial margin, just like in vanilla ADV. Like HG, RBY CAP should reward existing RBY knowledge and it should still feel like RBY.
 
Some scatterbrained thoughts:

Yeah pretty much agreeing with the above that creating a new top tier that warps the meta isn't the way to go here. Something that complements the meta rather than redefining it. Now, I'm not an OU expert but obviously Big 3 exists, and I feel like if we create something that warps that we haven't done our job.

Something that was brought up in the Discord is possibly exploring an underutilized typing, like Fighting, Poison, or Dragon. This could be a way to go, but I think we should play more towards a niche than a specific typing. What that niche should be, at the moment I don't know (like I said I'm not an OU expert). But I think going in with one typing in mind pigeonholes us too much.

So I guess what we could do is view this from a "create new niche" or "improve upon existing niche" kind of thing. I think trying to create a new niche would probably be more interesting, if we can think of one though. Improving upon an existing niche might just turn into "Sandslash, but better," or "Moltres, but better," etc. Which could be fun but I think we can do better than that. Creating something completely novel in a metagame as established as RBY would be a welcome challenge, so I say we go for it.
 
As someone with literally zero experience with RBY, but who has participated in a past-gen pet mod before (that being Hoenn Gaiden), I agree that preserving the identity of the format is extremely important, and am glad to see the sentiment shared by everyone else.

Also, this seems like an excellent mod for experimenting with wacky gimmicks and trying to make them function, which is always something I enjoy.
 
DuoM2 said:
Before we truly get started, it would be best if we discussed what we should be aiming for with this Pet Mod. What all would you hope to see out of this Pet Mod as a competitive format?
Click to expand...
My hope is that we are able to find plenty of slate worthy concepts and build a solid number of RBY CAPmons. RBY is obviously more limited than all other generations, but being able to realize multiple RBY CAPs would demonstrate just how much there is to explore within competitive Pokemon even with the fewest options available of any Pokemon game.

And of course successfully making the RBY CAPs fit in and widen the RBY CAP metagame instead of either dominating and changing the metagame entirely or being unusable.
 
One thing I'd like to see in this is to create Pokemon that let us explore underutilized areas of RBY, like creating a good user of Conversion or Transform. Another great example of what we're looking for is Enigami's suggestion of a Pokemon that completes the Rhydon beats Zapdos beats x beats Rhydon MU triangle. Stuff that naturally slots in like this would add interesting layers to the RBY OU meta, which is what we should be going for.
 
So I'd like to give a 24 hour warning for this, since discussion seems to have stopped and there largely seems to be an agreement about what should come of this mod.
  • The top threats in RBY OU should stay. The new Pokemon should be viable of course, but they should not be meta-shifting.
  • We should be aiming to widen the amount of viable options available in teambuilder, and we should ideally avoid creating direct competition between a new CAPmon and an existing, viable Pokemon.
  • There are a lot of interesting, but poorly-utilized things specific to RBY that could be explored further here. Specific examples include a viable Conversion user and using a specific unused type combination with perks otherwise unseen in RBY OU.
If anyone disagrees with the above ideas then I will extend this, but if not, we will be moving to our first concept phase tomorrow!
 
I 100% agree with the statements already made in this thread, but please note, I only play RBY Randoms, so take this with a bit of salt. We should try and explore unused/unutilized things that haven't been explored yet in RBY OU, and also take the route of revamping poorly utilized strategies. Making Pokemon that take up other Pokemon's niches is just not fair at all, and making S / A mons right off the get-go isn't really fun and limits the possibilities. We could create B mons first, then move up as the RBY CAP meta progresses. This gives us a lot of options right off the bat, then if things get problematic, we can try to balance it out through buff/nerf slates, but I'm still a huge newbie at RBY OU so I'm not really too experienced.
 
Seems that there’s no objections.

CAP 1: Concept Phase​
No rules other than what was mentioned in the OP + we’d like to heavily discourage any Amnesia-related concepts. Otherwise, you’re free to submit any concept you’d like! Just be sure you explain it well.
 
Limber but not really: Paralysis is a focal point of RBY and even allows lead strategies. However, what if we produced a Pokemon that's difficult to paralyze? This is normally achieved through typing among other bits; Normal or Ghost prevent paraslam, Ground makes you immune to TWave, Rest can technically remove it but not the Speed drop. Perhaps this could shake up T1 para or some Chansey interactions. Maybe even make something that could duel Snorlax and Rhydon more consistently. There's a lot you could work with here. However, nothing stops Glare or Stun Spore...so maybe Exeggutor may run Double Powder more often. Could even use Conversion to turn Normal-type against a STAB Body Slam user.

Is that too much info for a concept? I think it is. Oh well.
 
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Non-Poison Ghost: Ghost has the potential to be an incredibly powerful type in OU with Normal being so dominent, but Gengar's weakness to Psychic and Earthquake limits how much it can switch into for taking advantage of its typing. It would ideally need some different weaknesses (maybe to Blizzard?) to not completely eclipse Gengar, but having some other options for a Ghost-type would likely have a positive impact on teambuilding.

I guess this overlaps with the above concept too.
 
Status Stripper:

A Pokemon that utilizes the ability to remove the opponent's pre-existing status conditions (aka access to Haze). A good example of this potential utility would be Hazing a paralyzed Chansey to be able to use a Sleep move on it. This would allow one to more viably use the T1 Para lead routes of old, as paralyzed Chansey gets increased counterplay, solving one issue that many players have of the current OU lead meta being hyper focused on Sleep and Freeze Fishing. This also accomplishes the task of using a very very underutilized move in RBY and bringing it to the forefront of the meta, adding diversity.
 
Rock Paper Scissors: A Pokemon that completes a Rock Paper Scissors triangle, with CAP countering Pokemon A which counters Pokemon B which counters CAP. For example, a Pokemon that counters Rhydon while being countered by Zapdos. This would be a safe option for our first CAP, as this concept would be fairly easy to create while having plenty of flexibility and fitting naturally into the RBY OU metagame.
 
So in older Caps(Voodoom:voodoom:, and I think Volkraken:volkraken:?) Some pokemon were made to pair with other pokemon that exist, to create a duo that covers eachothers weaknesses, and this has failed now twice, because the pokemon they were made to support fell to obscurity, or the pokemon made was too weak to be used along with its companions. In RBY this sort of concept can have a lot more ground due to the general stability of the metagame, If you add a mon to pair with a niche mon, they will both rise up, and likely stay there, without drastically effecting the metagame itself. Thats why the prompt I would like to suggest is


New Friends!: A pokemon designed to look at a currently ranked on the viability rankings pokemon in OU, and build it a pokemon that can cover its weaknesses.
 
Break the Mold
An OU viable pokemon that goes completely against the stereotypes of its typing. This was the concept of Stratagem, CAP's 5th project. The idea is fairly straightfoward: make a Pokemon that does something with its typing that is completely different than other VIABLE Pokemon that share the same type. In Stratagem's case, GF had yet to introduce a fast, special attacking Rock-type. Other example given were "slow, bulky Electric" and "fast Steel". In the scope of RBY, with its smaller pool of Pokemon, I would look at what available niches do typings have that currently are not being fulfilled, i.e. "physically attacking Psychic" or even more specific "Swords Dance sweeping Rock" (sorry Kabutops.)
 
Un-niche:
I'm not really well-acquainted with the RBY metagame so this concept might not fit here, but I think an interesting idea would be to take a lower-tier Pokemon that has a niche in OU, and make it so the CAP has that niche but can use it to a greater capacity. Basically make the niche not a niche choice.
 
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It's a critical hit!

In this concept we generate a pokemon that can take advantage of Slash/Razor Leaf or similar as its sweeping move, like Persian and Victreebel, only make it a little more than fringe viable, probably with higher bulk and/or sustainability. This would allow people to bring a better matchup into Reflect teams while hopefully not turning the whole metagame on its head.
 
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