Raikou

lionrt60

lionrt60

This is my first analysis so please be gentle with me :3
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Old OU smogon analysis

Serebii

Overview
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OVERVIEW GOES HERE
YOU CAN DO IT PROS & CONS STYLE BUT THIS WILL LIKELY NOT BE THE FINAL FORM OF THE OVERVIEW SO MAYBE CONSIDER WRITING ONE


Substitute + Calm Mind
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name: Sustitute + Calm Mind
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
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INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
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EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Choice
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name: Choice
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Rash

Moves
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INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
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EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Assault Vest
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name: Assault Vest
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Volt Switch
ability: Pressure
item: Assault Vest
evs: 252 SpA / 24 SpD / 232 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
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  • Thunderbolt is STAB
  • Shadow ball provides fair coverage, hitting Aegislash hard in particular
  • Hidden Power Ice, though weakened this gen, is good coverage against Gliscor, Landorus, Landorus-T, and some Dragons, all of whom Raikou could have trouble with otherwise
  • Volt Switch is useful to quickly switch to an appropriate switch-in when something switches in that Raikou cannot handle

Set Details
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  • 232 Speed evs will always outspeed max speed mega lucario (with Timid Nature, if using rash it outspeeds neutral luke)
  • 24 SpD evs mean that a 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash's Shadow Ball only has a 1% Chance to 2HKO Raikou
  • 252 SpA evs maximize Raikou's attacking potential
  • Timid nature with 232 Speed evs outspeeds max speed lucario and anything below
  • With an Assault Vest Raikou acts as a bulky pivot

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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  • Anything that appreciates a bulky electric type pivot
  • Pokemon that it can form a VoltTurn core with such as Scizor


Other Options
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  • Aura Sphere, but forces you to use Rash Nature
  • Weather Ball for dedicated Weather Teams, although it is generally outclassed by Raikou's other moves
  • Expert Belt to feign a Choice Scarf as it outspeeds many pokemon anyway


Checks & Counters
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  • Gastrodon
  • Quagsire
  • Trevenant
  • Mega Venusaur
  • Dugtrio
 
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SubCM should go first, it easily deals with HO and is axiomatically the better set. AV lacks power.
 
Whats the purpose of max defense investment? The only physical threats youre taking hits from with raikou are talonflame's brave bird and pinsir's quick attack, and you dont need any investment to do so. Just run 252 sp attack, 24 sp def and 232 speed with timid. The sp def evs means that life orb aegislash only has 1% of chance to 2hko you with shadow ball (once lucarionite gets banned you can run 32 sp def and 224 speed instead to ensure that aegislash's shadow ball is always a 3hko). Theres no reason to run event moves, raikou's niche as an assault vest user is its godly base 115 speed and solid special bulk that allows it to pivot around special attackers and revenge kill dangerous threats at the same time, rash nature completely ruins this. Shadow ball> signal beam, celebi is pretty much irrelevant now and you'd rather hit lati@s harder. The calm mind set should just be a regular 252 sp atk, 252 speed spread for the same reasons.
 
Is Aura Sphere really still worth using? I mean, not only the power drop, but also it has to be shiny w/ Rash nature, so it pratically holds a giant sign screaming "AURA SPHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!"
 
yeah get rid of rash nature; aura sphere is not worth the speed drop. being able to reliably revenge mega pinsir is huge.

also, choice sets should never be merged because they play differently. and i honestly doubt the viability of scarf on this guy.
 
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I'd definitely unslash Aura Sphere and Signal Beam and replace them with Shadow Ball, which hits Aegislash super effectively in addition to nearly everything that Signal Beam does. Aura Sphere not only throws away Raikou's excellent speed tier, but it also forces you to run a - SpD nature, which is contradictory to the point of Assault Vest. I guess it could still be worth mentioning in Moves, though.
 
lionrt60 said:
  • Aura Sphere is a good coverage move hitting Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Tyranitar hard
  • Signal Beam is for if you do not want to be locked into a Rash Nature and is fair coverage and hits Mega Venusaur harder than any other move Raikou can use except for Hidden Power Fire or Weather Ball in the sun (Although Aura Sphere is generally a better option for Raikou)
  • Hidden Power Ice, though weakened this gen, is good coverage against Gliscor, Landorus, Landorus-T, and some Dragons, all of whom Raikou could have trouble with otherwise
  • Volt Switch is useful to quickly switch to an appropriate switch-in when something switches in that Raikou cannot handle

Set Details
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  • 232 Speed evs will always outspeed max speed mega lucario (neutral nature luke if using rash and positive speed luke if using timid) and anything below
  • 24 HP evs and 252 Def evs to maximize Raikou's Physical Defense and makes it's HP stat odd
  • Rash Nature because it is the only way that Raikou has access to Aura Sphere and Weather Ball, if you are not using Aura Sphere / Weather Ball for whatever reason however a Timid Nature is generally better.
  • With an Assault Vest Raikou acts as a bulky pivot
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Hey there. First of all, I think the AV set should run max SpA / Spe (unless there's something important to outlive with a certain HP/SpD investment). There's not much point in investing in Raikou's Defense since the set is meant to tank special hits, and without any SpA investment he doesn't hit hard enough to be useful.

Second, Signal Beam? Raikou has Shadow Ball which is useful for Aegislash, and Extrasensory which actually deals decent damage to Mega Venusaur:

252 SpA Raikou Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%)

Giving up Timid for Aura Sphere is a tough sell... I don't think that being slower than Lando-I and Chomp is worth the Fighting-type coverage considering you can Volt Switch out.
 
Shroomisaur said:
Hey there. First of all, I think the AV set should run max SpA / Spe (unless there's something important to outlive with a certain HP/SpD investment). There's not much point in investing in Raikou's Defense since the set is meant to tank special hits, and without any SpA investment he doesn't hit hard enough to be useful.

Second, Signal Beam? Raikou has Shadow Ball which is useful for Aegislash, and Extrasensory which actually deals decent damage to Mega Venusaur:

252 SpA Raikou Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%)

Giving up Timid for Aura Sphere is a tough sell... I don't think that being slower than Lando-I and Chomp is worth the Fighting-type coverage considering you can Volt Switch out.
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My two cents on EVs:

If you're using a Rash nature, 252 Speed EVs is essential to outspeed fully invested base 100s (particularly stuff like Staraptor and Mega Charizard Y) by one point.

With a Timid nature, if some degree of bulk is really desired, the lowest I'd dip is 176 Speed EVs with a Timid nature and 80 EVs thrown into Special Defense. That lets you outpace Mega Pinsir and also gives you an ~90% chance to not be 2HKO'd by Mega Gardevoir and LO Celebi (really the only relevant calcs I could find). I wouldn't want any speed lower than that, though, and in all honesty I think max speed is best to outpace Lati@s, Keldeo, and Thundurus.
 
Definitely go faster than keldeo at least, there is no reason to give up the ability to check it, and definitely max out special attack. Shadow ball lets you do some damage to latios/latias, hp ice is weak, that's another pro there.
 
Ok, I wasnt sure whether to put Aura Sphere as a slash or in OO so for now i've just put it as a slash. implemented the 252 SpA / 24 SpD / 232 Spe Change to Assault Vest set
 
Assault Vest should definitely be the last set, if not removed altogether. Raikou lacks the needed resistances to make AV work, as well as utility tools that good AV user have, such as Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Regenerator, Scald, Pursuit, and Drain Punch. AV Raikou hits like a little girl and is easy as fuck to wall or prevent from using Volt Switch, and its survivability is nothing to write home about either. With AV it will be able to switch in against special attackers one more time than usually, but that's it. It is pretty easy to wear down with Volt-turn (many of the Pokemon it is supposed to check, such as Rotom-W and Thundurus often carry such moves), hazards, Pursuit, and is very easy to shut down, so i don't see the appeal to this set. To showcase its lack of power, here is a very important calc:

- 252+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 264-312 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So, even though AV Raikou can switch into Mega Char Y once, it can't even OHKO back the majority of the time with a STAB fully invested Thunderbolt. And its coverage? Hidden Power Ice, Shadow Ball, and Extrasensory. Yeah....
 
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Yeah I was talking about this on IRC last night. I just don't get the purpose of Assault Vest. Certainly increased special bulk is handy, but Raikou is still not that bulky with it and isn't even that strong as alexwolf just showcased. Furthermore, it's extremely prone to wear and tear if you're planning on brutally switching it into attackers, unlike Conkeldurr for example. I would just use the SubCM set because it's better.
 
To be brutally honest the Assault Vest set was Raikou's main niche in the metagame (imo) and now that he has lost it, well, you have to question whether or not Raikou actually needs an analysis. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to carry on the analysis if it is required but at this point I'm not convinced that it is.
 
lionrt60 said:
To be brutally honest the Assault Vest set was Raikou's main niche in the metagame (imo) and now that he has lost it, well, you have to question whether or not Raikou actually needs an analysis. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to carry on the analysis if it is required but at this point I'm not convinced that it is.
Click to expand...

Being able to check + revenge kill Talonflame and Mega Pinsir is great this gen, and good enough reason to consider to use him in OU imo. It can also OHKO charizard with 1 calm mind up, with a life orb, or with the specs. We all know how common Talonflame is, and Mega Pinsir while not as common is a deadly sweeper that is used often enough. He brings other things to the table as well (e.g. can force out or KO someother pokes like Keldeo as well). Works well in a VoltTurn team with that STAB volt switch, which hits very hard with specs mind you. Great speed tier (outspeeding the 108's like Keldeo, Terrakion, Infernape, the 110's like Espeon and Gengar, and of course the butt load of 100's).
 
I disagree with the assault vest set being removed. Assault vest raikou is more or less an aggressive version of rotom-w. It doesnt have that nice water typing, levitate ability and will-o-wisp but it has a sexy base 115 speed and sp attack to outspeed things and hit them hard and its resistance to electric coupled with much better overall bulk (same physical bulk and more special bulk) makes it a good switch in to certain things rotom-w cant deal with, notably thundurus, life orb aegislash (this variant rarely carries king's shield) and mega charizard y (i know raikou cant ko it at full health but its not hard for charizard to take some prior damage specially since its 4x weak to stealth rock). It can also beat greninja 1vs1 which is something rotom-w can only dream of doing (even max hp rotom-w with assault vest is still 2hkoed by hp grass lol). Dont forget that it can also revenge kill threats like garchomp, landorus, weakened lati@s, weakened mega lucario (ALL SETS, EVEN BOOSTED) and keldeo that rotom-w cant boast either. Raikou is also still capable of serving as a good check for talonflame and mega pinsir much like rotom-w. Overall raikou is a pretty good assault vest user and has its own niche as an electric pivot.
 
SmashBrosBrawl said:
I disagree with the assault vest set being removed. Assault vest raikou is more or less an aggressive version of rotom-w. It doesnt have that nice water typing, levitate ability and will-o-wisp but it has a sexy base 115 speed and sp attack to outspeed things and hit them hard and its resistance to electric coupled with much better overall bulk (same physical bulk and more special bulk) makes it a good switch in to certain things rotom-w cant deal with, notably thundurus, life orb aegislash (this variant rarely carries king's shield) and mega charizard y (i know raikou cant ko it at full health but its not hard for charizard to take some prior damage specially since its 4x weak to stealth rock). It can also beat greninja 1vs1 which is something rotom-w can only dream of doing (even max hp rotom-w with assault vest is still 2hkoed by hp grass lol). Dont forget that it can also revenge kill threats like garchomp, landorus, weakened lati@s, weakened mega lucario (ALL SETS, EVEN BOOSTED) and keldeo that rotom-w cant boast either. Raikou is also still capable of serving as a good check for talonflame and mega pinsir much like rotom-w. Overall raikou is a pretty good assault vest user and has its own niche as an electric pivot.
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- 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 140-165 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 121-144 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The combo of Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak does 81% damage minimum, with a 2HKO being very possible after SR, so you can't switch into it even once. If it carries Spooky Plate or Leftovers, then it has King's Shield, so you can't even 2HKO back, while it can just hit you with a second Shadow Ball and then finish you off with Shadow Sneak.

So, AV or not, Raikou can't switch into Aegislash at all.

As for Thundurus, you check it with or without AV really well, and with SubCM you can actually set up on it and become somewhat threatening, so i don't get how AV is needed to deal with Thundurus at all.

Beating Greninja 1 v 1 doesn't matter one bit. What matters is if AV Raikou can check it. Offensive teams have plenty of Pokemon that can deal with Greninja 1 on 1, the problem is getting those Pokemom in. And even with AV, Raikou can't check Greninja:

- 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 133-157 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So, out of all the Pokemon you mentioned, AV helps only against one, Mega Charizard Y, and only for once, as you take more than half, and in exchange you get to hit the opponent with a weak as shit unboosted Raikou? What kind of exchange is this? The opponent gets to do ~70% on Raikou while you only manage to get momentum with Volt Switch at best, assuming the opponent doesn't have Excadrill, or Mamoswine, or Hippowdon? And this is a reason to use AV?

Finally, all the other Pokemon you mentioned can be revenge killed by Raikou even without AV, so this is not an argument in favor of AV.
 
alexwolf said:
- 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 140-165 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 121-144 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The combo of Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak does 81% damage minimum, with a 2HKO being very possible after SR, so you can't switch into it even once. If it carries Spooky Plate or Leftovers, then it has King's Shield, so you can't even 2HKO back, while it can just hit you with a second Shadow Ball and then finish you off with Shadow Sneak.

So, AV or not, Raikou can't switch into Aegislash at all.

As for Thundurus, you check it with or without AV really well, and with SubCM you can actually set up on it and become somewhat threatening, so i don't get how AV is needed to deal with Thundurus at all.

Beating Greninja 1 v 1 doesn't matter one bit. What matters is if AV Raikou can check it. Offensive teams have plenty of Pokemon that can deal with Greninja 1 on 1, the problem is getting those Pokemom in. And even with AV, Raikou can't check Greninja:

- 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 133-157 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So, out of all the Pokemon you mentioned, AV helps only against one, Mega Charizard Y, and only for once, as you take more than half, and in exchange you get to hit the opponent with a weak as shit unboosted Raikou? What kind of exchange is this? The opponent gets to do ~70% on Raikou while you only manage to get momentum with Volt Switch at best, assuming the opponent doesn't have Excadrill, or Mamoswine, or Hippowdon? And this is a reason to use AV?

Finally, all the other Pokemon you mentioned can be revenge killed by Raikou even without AV, so this is not an argument in favor of AV.
Click to expand...
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 24 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 108-127 (33.6 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 24 SpD Raikou: 161-191 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In the first situation the thundurus player switches out in fear of being 2hkoed, in the second he stays in and finish you off, thats a pretty big difference in terms of checking. Nvm that av raikou can also survive a +2 life orb focus blast (even after stealth rock) thus making it one of the few pokemon in general that can actually switch in nasty plot thundurus at all and come out on victory. I dont get your point about charizard. How many offensive pokemon can actually claim to switch in AND scare zard y away? The simple fact that raikou CAN do that (if youre going to assume stealth rock for all of your calcs then i am also going to assume charizard is taking prior damage) is amazing enough by itself. I dont understand how raikou cannot switch into greninja. Sure it takes a big hit but thats assuming the greninja user used hydro pump in first place and raikou will still force it out since the life orb recoil from attacking it on the switch, attacking it again, and stealth rock damage will put it at thunderbolt/hp ice range even if it changed typing. While its true that aegislash does have a small chance of 2hkoing raikou, the majority of time that wont be the case and the aegislash user will be forced to switch out and give you the momentum with volt switch. When i say that it can revenge kill those threats i dont mean that it needs assault vest to do so, i mean that its one of the few assault vest users that can boast such an amazing combination of bulk and speed. The point of av raikou is not to wall things, the point of it is to abuse raikou's excellent offensive stats and access to stab volt switch coupled with the sp def boost to become an excellent pivot and thats exactly what it is. As i said before this is essentially an aggressive alternative to rotom-w and while it might not be the best set for it, its certainly viable enough to be listed.
 
My point about Charizard is that being able to switch into it once means shit when your are so easy to stop cold and have so low longevity, unlike offensive checks such as Lati@s. Same with Thundurus. So what if you avoid the 2HKO from LO Focus Blast, when Thundurus can just wear you down with Focus Blast and easily stop cold Raikou with its teammates? And i don't get what you say about Aegislash and Greninja. All that i said is that AV Raikou can't even hope to switch into them, as both 2HKO with SR up the majority of the time, so AV is not helping you beat those two. And why wouldn't Greninja be spamming Hydro Pump, it is its best and most spmmable move. The next most spammable move it uses is U-turn, which is bad news for AV Raikou too.

It doesn't matter if you can switch into a few special attackers one more time if you are so easy to shut down. AV Raikou's offensive presence is pathetic, that's the point. With SubCM you get the same offensive presence with better longevity thanks to Leftovers, better sweeping potential, and better protection against revenge killers, and what do you lose? Checking a few special attackers that Raikou doesn't check that well anyway, while being laughably easy to shut down.
 
alexwolf said:
My point about Charizard is that being able to switch into it once means shit when your are so easy to stop cold and have so low longevity, unlike offensive checks such as Lati@s. Same with Thundurus. So what if you avoid the 2HKO from LO Focus Blast, when Thundurus can just wear you down with Focus Blast and easily stop cold Raikou with its teammates? And i don't get what you say about Aegislash and Greninja. All that i said is that AV Raikou can't even hope to switch into them, as both 2HKO with SR up the majority of the time, so AV is not helping you beat those two. And why wouldn't Greninja be spamming Hydro Pump, it is its best and most spmmable move. The next most spammable move it uses is U-turn, which is bad news for AV Raikou too.

It doesn't matter if you can switch into a few special attackers one more time if you are so easy to shut down. AV Raikou's offensive presence is pathetic, that's the point. With SubCM you get the same offensive presence with better longevity thanks to Leftovers, better sweeping potential, and better protection against revenge killers, and what do you lose? Checking a few special attackers that Raikou doesn't check that well anyway, while being laughably easy to shut down.
Click to expand...
Why you keep comparing it to the SubCM set. One has volt switch, the other doesnt, they are completely different in function. Electric stab is absolutely amazing, so many things are hit se by it and the only ground types that can take a hp ice are hippowdon, excadrill and mamoswine, so i dont really see how raikou is easy to shut down. Assault vest allows raikou to be a much better pivot than it could before, this has nothing to do with ''sweeping potential'', its simply a regular 4 attacks raikou with an item that finally makes sense on it. If you want a better comparison see assault vest genesect.
 
The point is AV Raikou is too weak and shut down by many Pokemon to be effective. AV Genesect is way harder to shut down, with better coverage, more power, and an unblockable momentum move, while also offering much more resistances to the table.

Take a look to all the viable AV users and you will see that they either are hard to shut down (AV Conkeldurr and AV Excadrill) due to good power and utility moves, or have great longevity (Tangrowth and Slowbro). For example, even though AV Excadrill is easy to wall it doesn't matter as it can still be very useful by providing Rapid Spin support.

For now i don't want AV Raikou to get a main set, unless i see some better argument in favor of it.
 
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