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(QC 0/4) Toxicroak

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princessgod

princessgod

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Overview
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  • With XY coming along with the nerfs to all weather, Toxicroak became outclassed with the likes of Terrakion, Keldeo, and other more viable Fighting-types.
  • It is also frail, making it kind of hard to set up with compared to other pokemon like Terrakion.
  • Toxicroak with only one viable set, can be really predictable, expect for the fact that it has multiple coverage moves to use like Ice punch, Stone edge, and even Earthquake which makes it a threat that you should never overlook.
  • Toxicroak, with a Fighting-Poison-typing only takes neutral damage from Fairy-type attacks, and scare them out with a powerful Gunk Shot which many Fighting-type could only dream of doing as things like Unware Clefable stops a lot of boosting Fighting-types from trying to sweep/wallbreak, making it a reason to use it despite all the other viable fighting-types in the OU tier.
  • Also, Dry Skin still acts like the ability Water Absorb giving it switch-in's to Water-types in the tier like Manaphy, and Keldeo, and heal Toxicroak, as their main stab move is Water-type, allowing Toxicroak to come in, and threaten your opponent with Gunk Shot as it has the base attack stat of 106 which allows it to even 2HKO one of the bulkiest walls in the game like Mega-Venusaur.
  • Toxicroak can be a viable pokemon with the right support as it has access to sucker punch, swords dance, and a wide variety of moves that allows it to sweep.
Swords Dancer########
name: Swords Dance Booster
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Gunk Shot / Ice punch
move 4: Drain Punch / Cross Chop
ability: Dry Skin
item: Black Sludge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
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  • Swords Dance is the crux of this set as you need it to set up.
  • Sucker Punch gives Toxicroak priorty allowing it to hit any Ghost-types that wall this set like Aegislash, or anything that can outspeed Toxicroak and OHKO him like the Lati's, Deoxys-Speed, etc.
  • Gunk Shot is a very viable move this gen as Fairy-types are a new type that was introduced allowing you to hit things like Clefable.
  • Ice Punch is another option you can use if you don't care so much about Fairy-Types hitting things like Landorus-T who would other wise wall you and OHKO with Earthquake, Garchomp, Gliscor, and other Ground-types.
  • Stone Edge hits flying types that would wall you like Mandibuzz. You can even predict a Talonflame switching in, and kill it.
  • Drain Punch is the stab move on this set with a nice base power of 75, and also allowing you to recover some HP. Cross Chop allows for power, and does more damage with the extra base power.

Set Details
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  • 252 Atk max out your attack stat, and 252 Spe max out your speed since you want to just hit something and sweep.
  • Black Sludge act as Leftovers for Poison-Types, but except that your opponent would think twice before using Trick on you as they would take residual damage each turn.
  • If you want to go fullest with your speed go for jolly, but Adamant will let you do damage you can't do with Jolly.
  • If you're running Adamant nature, you should use the Ev spread: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe in order to outspeed Adamant 252+ Gyarados by one point, and to also have a little extra bulk.

Usage Tips
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  • Toxicroak should really only be brought out when all of it's checks/counters are gone or weakened as it would be pointless to try, and sweep while getting destroyed in the process, and this set is only useful really, when successfully attempting a sweep. For example, if your opponent has like a Skarmory, and you try to set up a Swords Dance, or if you're attempting to hit whatever your opponent has in, then it wouldn't be too nice, though Cross Chop might 2HKO Skarm depending on the range of HP it's at.
  • Another reason to bring out Toxicroak would to be luring in its checks. Like, you see something like a Talonflame or a Garchomp trying to switch in, and you hit them for super effective damage depending on what you have on your moveset. Doing this might allow you to sweep with Toxicroak later on in the match.

Team Options
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  • Like I said on the above, Skarmory walls this set so things like Heatran and Rotom-W can help greatly as they wall any Skarmory sets.
  • Rotom-W avoids any ground moves with Levitate, and Toxicroak can switch in to any grass moves Rotom-W hates. Heatran switches in to any Flying-type moves as well that Toxicroak hates, and set up stealth rocks or whatever.
  • Excadrill has a higher base speed, and can OHKO Toxicroak with Earthquake so you might want something like Manaphy or Keldeo that can smash any Ground-Types, or any physical walls letting Toxicroak sweep.
  • Manaphy also don't really care about Talonflame unlike Keldeo.
  • Landorus-T can work as it can switch into things like Garchomp, and Excadrill and scare them away. Landorus-T can also set up Stealth Rocks for you if you need them.


Other Options
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  • Other moves you can consider is Knock off , since it gained a bluff this gen, and hits any Ghost or Psychic-types you want.
  • Stone Edge can be used to hit things like Mandibuzz which can eat up most of Toxicroak move, but Gunk Shot hit it just as hard.
  • Earthquake is a interesting move to use on Toxicroak since it's what allow Toxicroak to get pass Aegislash.
Checks & Counters
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  • The Lati's can check Toxicroak with Psyshock, and live a Sucker Punch assuming that Toxicroak is not at +2.
  • Skarmory walls all Toxicroak sets, and can whirlwind them out or kill them with Brave Bird.
  • Slowbro can easily live any attacks Toxicroak uses, and OHKO it with Psyshock/ Psychic.
  • Mandibuzz can easily tank all of Toxicroak hits, and whirlwind him out unless Toxicroak is at +2 Atk, and uses Stone Edge.
  • Landorus-T can easily wall Toxicroak expect for Ice Punch and kill it with Earthquake. Garchomp easily checks Toxicroak, and outspeeds it easily killing it with Earthquake.
  • Talonflame is another check that easily outspeeds, and kill with Brave Bird. Aegislash don't care about any of Toxicroak attacks, and walls it.
  • Mega Scizor can wall Toxicroak with its amazing defenses, roost off all the damage, and in return can 2HKO with Bullet Punch.
  • Mega Pinsir can revenge kill Toxicroak with Quick Attack / Return.
  • Unless Gengar has Substitute or Destiny Bond on it, you can Sucker Punch it with Toxicroak
 
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I'm not QC, but I do believe Toxicroak has only one set that he can claim to be viable with it, and it goes like this:

move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Sucker Punch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb / Black Sludge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

STABs are just about mandatory, because Poison and Fighting moves work surprisingly well in this meta against physical walls and pivots. Sucker Punch is mandatory, because Toxicroak is too slow without a priority, and can't be considered a threat to offensive threats without it. I do believe Life Orb is needed for the extra damage, and Drain Punch negates Life Orb recoil, but I wouldn't rule out Black Sludge atleast just yet. I'm not either sure of the nature, but that's something to test.
 
  • Toxicroak has been around ever since DPP. It has been overlooked by many people in favor of many other fighting/poison types.
  • Then came BW where Politoed gained the ability drizzle, allowing access to permanent rain on many teams. This allowed Toxicroak to take advantage of its ability Dry Skin giving it recovery every turn in the rain, and became a very viable sweeper thanks to its Poison-typing that gave it resistances allowing it to set up, sending it up to the OU tier.
Click to expand...

IMO, this is all useless. Put something about how viable it is or why you would put it on a team, or even how predictable it is. I suppose you can mention that it is a Fighting-type neutral to Fairy, allowing it to live a Moonblast from, say, Clefable, and Gunk Shot it to death.

Also, it's Swords Dance.
 
Add in that if you're running an Adamant nature for the SD set, you should run an EV spread of 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe. This gives it enough Speed to outrun 252+ Breloom, and a little extra bulk.
 
IMO, this is all useless. Put something about how viable it is or why you would put it on a team, or even how predictable it is. I suppose you can mention that it is a Fighting-type neutral to Fairy, allowing it to live a Moonblast from, say, Clefable, and Gunk Shot it to death.

Also, it's Swords Dance.
Click to expand...

I will add in the rest later.
 
I don't think Stone Edge really needs a slash. Gunk Shot already hits most Flying-types hard enough as it is, and the 30% chance to poison gives Gunk Shot a chance to outdamage Stone Edge altogether. I'm also a little iffy about Ice Punch. Gunk Shot is pretty hard to give up since its so powerful, and the extra passive damage due to possible poison is helpful as well. Hitting Gliscor and Landorus-T is admittedly pretty useful, though. Earthquake probably deserves an Other Options mention as well. This gives you a method of getting past Aegislash without having your Atk cut by King's Shield. It's hard to find room for, though, which is why I don't believe it needs a main slash.
 
Timpsu said:
I'm not QC, but I do believe Toxicroak has only one set that he can claim to be viable with it, and it goes like this:

move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Sucker Punch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb / Black Sludge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

STABs are just about mandatory, because Poison and Fighting moves work surprisingly well in this meta against physical walls and pivots. Sucker Punch is mandatory, because Toxicroak is too slow without a priority, and can't be considered a threat to offensive threats without it. I do believe Life Orb is needed for the extra damage, and Drain Punch negates Life Orb recoil, but I wouldn't rule out Black Sludge atleast just yet. I'm not either sure of the nature, but that's something to test.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this is true at all. LO+4 attacks has worked very, very well for me. It's the same thing as the SD set but you scrap SD for Knock Off
 
You list the latis first in c&c saying they can switch in easily, yet they take a buttload from Gunk Shot and are finished off by sucker punch. They really only are checks if they're healthy enough to survive a sucker punch so move then down the list and reword.

IMO life orb should be at worst the primary slash if not the only item. Croak loves the power on its sucker punch in particular and against slower mons croak can negate recoil with Drain Punch

I'd also recommend removing Cross chop as a slash and i definitely agree with agent Gibbs about Stone Edge - it is redundant.

Not QC, but this is just what I noticed
 
You list the latis first in c&c saying they can switch in easily, yet they take a buttload from Gunk Shot and are finished off by sucker punch. They really only are checks if they're healthy enough to survive a sucker punch so move then down the list and reword.
Click to expand...

Opps. Didn't really notice that. Fixed
 
Your overview needs some work. You're being unnecessarily harsh on Toxicroak—yes, it has some downfalls that prevent it from being an OU staple, but there is no reason to constantly talk about why it's not viable. Obviously it must be somewhat viable if it's getting an analysis. Emphasize how it can consistently check Pokemon like Keldeo. Talk about how powerful its Gunk Shot is—it almost always 2HKOs physically defensive Mega Venusaur after Stealth Rock. Emphasize Sucker Punch—the attack that allows it to actually pull off an endgame sweep even with opponents like Deoxys-S around. Don't stress so much the fact that it's in RU or that it's like DPP, instead talk about how it may need more team support that other Pokemon or how it fares badly against faster threats that don't mind Sucker Punch, or that it suffers from serious 4MSS. RU and DPP are irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is how to use Toxicroak effectively in OU.

Also stress that it couldn't care less about Clefable, who stops a lot of other boosting Fighting-types cold.

Stop hating so much on its stats, too. 85 Speed isn't fast, but that still outruns a decent lot of OU threats. 83/65/65 bulk is pretty bad, so you can keep that. However, your point about "doesn't hit hard enough to compare" is flat-out wrong. STAB Gunk Shot coming off of base 106 attack is ridiculously strong—far stronger than most other attacks in OU (for comparison's sake, Aegislash's maximum investment Shadow Ball is around 15% weaker).

Tone down the point about it being predictable—yes, it can only use one set, but you state yourself that Toxicroak has a ton of options at its disposal, not to mention that the threat of Sucker Punch is a benefit for users with good prediction skills. These qualities make Toxicroak threatening to a wide range of Pokemon prior to revealing its set (e.g. Ice Punch lets it seriously threaten Landorus).

That's all for now. I'll give more comments on the set after I've tried this out for myself.
 
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CyclicCompound said:
Your overview needs some work. You're being unnecessarily harsh on Toxicroak—yes, it has some downfalls that prevent it from being an OU staple, but there is no reason to constantly talk about why it's not viable. Obviously it must be somewhat viable if it's getting an analysis. Emphasize how it can consistently check Pokemon like Keldeo. Talk about how powerful its Gunk Shot is—it almost always 2HKOs physically defensive Mega Venusaur after Stealth Rock. Emphasize Sucker Punch—the attack that allows it to actually pull off an endgame sweep even with opponents like Deoxys-S around. Don't stress so much the fact that it's in RU or that it's like DPP, instead talk about how it may need more team support that other Pokemon or how it fares badly against faster threats that don't mind Sucker Punch, or that it suffers from serious 4MSS. RU and DPP are irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is how to use Toxicroak effectively in OU.

Also stress that it couldn't care less about Clefable, who stops a lot of other boosting Fighting-types cold.

Stop hating so much on its stats, too. 85 Speed isn't fast, but that still outruns a decent lot of OU threats. 90/73/90 bulk is low, but not really all that frail for an offensive Pokemon, especially when backed by Drain Punch. And your point about "doesn't hit hard enough to compare" is flat-out wrong. STAB Gunk Shot coming off of base 106 attack is ridiculously strong—far stronger than most other attacks in OU (for comparison's sake, Aegislash's maximum investment Shadow Ball is around 15% weaker).

Tone down the point about it being predictable—yes, it can only use one set, but you state yourself that Toxicroak has a ton of options at its disposal, not to mention that the threat of Sucker Punch is a benefit for users with good prediction skills. These qualities make Toxicroak threatening to a wide range of Pokemon prior to revealing its set (e.g. Ice Punch lets it seriously threaten Landorus).

That's all for now. I'll give more comments on the set after I've tried this out for myself.
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I agree with the unnecessary harshness, but, its bulk is 83/65/65, which is poor, and significantly worse than what you said "90/73/90." Perhaps you were thinking Clefable, with 95/73/90.
 
finncent1 said:
I agree with the unnecessary harshness, but, its bulk is 83/65/65, which is poor, and significantly worse than what you said "90/73/90." Perhaps you were thinking Clefable, with 95/73/90.
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Hmm, that's odd, I could've sworn that it different when I read it, but you're right. Perhaps I've done too many drugs calculus problems tonight to function numerically.
 
A Toxicroak analysis with its STABs slashed and Sucker Punch as the "main" move is unacceptable.

No. Rejecting. Someone else can work on this.
 
Things of note here:

  • You slashed Gunk Shot. This makes NO sense. One of the few reasons that you really want to use Toxicroak is its heinously powerful Poison STAB that makes it a terror against Fairies like Clefable. Slashing Gunk Shot means you lose one of the most significant selling points for the Pokemon.
  • You basically say "use jolly if you like speed, use adamant if you like strongth". That's not how Speed works in this game. Mention specific things you need Jolly for, because its speed is merely "ok" and it needs all the help it can get in the Attack department. Te fact that you have no examples of important speed benchmarks (when there are plenty to be had) is a mite worrisome.
  • Way too much hating on the Pokemon. Toxicroak has always been a niche Pokemon that survives on its Dry Skin, and this gen is no exception. Still, the beginning of an analysis shouldn't start with "here's why not to use it".
  • "Use prediction" is not a usage tip. It's a basic of playing the game, and isn't specific to any Pokemon. You can mention specific predictions that are easy, but that's not what you're doing here.
  • Most importantly, nothing here actually really tells me that you've used this Pokemon with any level of depth. While the above might be correctable in most circumstances, the problem is that there are clearly more capable people that can write this analysis without as much hand-holding from QC, since they have more hands-on experience with the Pokemon.
I'm putting up this analysis for reassignment.
 
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