Probopass Discussion- Not worthless?

Boa1891

Ninja Researcher
is a Researcher Alumnus
Note- I've done no testing with this set; This is all theorycraft. I know that's not very forgivable with the availability of Shoddy, but I would prefer input from other people on how well it would work before I proceed to test it or scrap it. Also, I wanna note that I haven't been able to see the beta mainpage for DAYS (Not a 404, but simply an "Internet Exploder can not display this webpage yada yada"), and as a result haven't been able to check the analyses. This was pissing me off because I've been trying to find something, preferably a rock-type, to steal Blissey's slot in my semi-SS-based team. It would be SO cool if it were possible to put the analyses back onto the forums somewhere (or if they are already, point them out to me and call me a dumbass); they'd be a lot easier to access even when you CAN get to the main page.

Steel/Rock- A horrible defensive typing combination, leaving you with 4x weaknesses to two of the most common attacking types, Ground and Fighting. You're also weak to Water.
You do get 4x resistances to Normal and Flying, as well as resistance to Ice, Psychic, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Dragon, and Dark; Leaving you neutral to Steel, Grass, Electric, and Fire.

If it weren't for the weaknesses to Fighting and Ground, this would be an amazing walling typing. But, then again, Fighting and Ground are mainly Physical...

Usable Support Movepool:
Magnet Rise
Gravity
Iron Defense
Block
Thunder Wave
Rest
Lock-On
Toxic
Taunt
Stealth Rock

The lack of a recovery move aside from rest hurts Probopass the most, being the only thing aside from his typing stopping him from being a god-like wall. He gets access to some unique support, including Magnet Rise (I guess) and Gravity (my favorite!).

Usable Special Attack Movepool
Discharge
Zap Cannon
Earth Power
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Shock Wave
Flash Cannon

Okay, I'll admit- "Usable" is a bit of a stretch. Since this set will work best in a Sandstorm, Thunder is immediately out. Zap Cannon is pretty much shit, though usable because of Probo's durability and access to Gravity (yum). Discharge or Thunderbolt are the attacks of choice for the electric type, then- One for more damage, one for a massively better shot at paralysis.
flash cannon... Is steel type. What more can I say?
Earth Power is pretty much not optional, then. Especially considering Probo's ability to trap steels, the combination of Earth Power and Thunderbolt do pretty much exactly what you want them to. Until you get fucked up by Gliscor.

SET TIME

Standard Wall/Support
Probopass @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252HP/100Def/156 SpAtk (PLEASE HELP ME WITH THESE. >_>)
Moves:
Thunderbolt/Discharge/Zap Cannon
Earth Power
Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/Magnet Rise
Rest

The premise is simple: Switch in to take a hit, retaliate, switch out. Trap steels for easy kills. Magnet Rise if you can predict if they'll switch to an EQer, to give yourself another free turn to attack them. You can SR or TWave in that slot, instead.
Any slot (not rest) can be wrote over with a pretty HP Ice, too.

Damage Calcs in Sandstorm:

Draco Meteor, maxed specsmence: 24.69% - 29.01%
Fire Blast, maxed specsmence: 28.40% - 33.33%
Hydro Pump, maxed specsmence: 56.79% - 66.67%

Factoring in leftovers, that's 18.19%-22.51% from Meteor, 21.9%-26.83% from Fire Blast, and 50.29%-60.17% from Hydro Pump- Let's see the same on a standard Blissey, in Sandstorm, factoring in both SS damage and leftovers.

Maxed specsmence meteor: 37.94% - 44.62%
Maxed specsmence Fire Blast: 21.80% - 25.58%
Maxed specsmence Hydro Pump: 21.80% - 25.58%

As you can see, Probopass easily takes less %damage than Blissey for the 9 types he resists (except ghost), slightly more for the 4 he's neutral to, and slightly over double for the 3 he's weak to. He's also a thousand times more durable on the physical side, but I don't need any damage calcs to tell you that. If only he had a good recovery move!

This topic is less about this set in particular and more about Probopass in general. I'd put up another set or two, but it seems my time has run out.

Is Probopass usable in BL/OU? Is he even usable in UU? Might he be able to carve a niche in Ubers? What kind of sets would work well for Probopass?

Discussion starts now. NOW, I SAY.
 
nitnit said:
4X weaknesses to fighting and ground hurt him a lot.
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did you really read everything he had to say, and you figured

"wow, he highlighted how hard it is to use him with those weaknesses, but because he wrote this detailed thread about probopass, he must not know, i'll just make this horrible post and go."

Good idea, i've actually seen this thing tango with OU pokemon with good results.

However, the problem lies in what my friend nitwit here said. That, and being that outside of a steel trapper, it seems like you'd be being too multi purpose that it may be better using another wall

What it comes down to, is what makes it better than Magnezone? Could it still KO skarmory before they phaze you out? Can it survive Metagross's attacks enough to switch on a choice attack and kill? Can it do anything to Forretress without getting Exploded on? Could bronzong best this with using hypnosis and EQ?

I like probopass, and i really want to like him, it just seems like there's more weighing him down than just the weaknesses and the recovery, like the roles he may fill.

Also, the calcs are nice, but what would you do back to Salamence? I'm sure he wouldn't just chill after using a dmeteor.
 
This is a set I used in on of my teams (this supported CBChomp)

Traps Skarmory, taunts it and rapes the tin-can bird, also sets up gravity for CBChomp to sweep the rest.

Probopass (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magent Pull
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Gravity
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
 
I messed around with a Nosepass in Advance against not-very-competitive friends, an Adamant Rock Slide/EQ/TW/boom one, and it went pretty well for a Nosepass. (it blew up in a Latias's face for a double-kill once) I cloned it and migrated and evolved the clone, and it worked ok-ish.

Silly theory time: Maybe Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/Lock-On/filler(some kind of attack) Set up rocks, Wave them, Lock-On as a type of PHazing? I dunno.

I really can't add much to the discussion, other than to say that "Internet Exploder" is one of the BEST TYPOS EVER.
 
nitnit said:
Stranger Danger - I was merely reiterating the fact that his weaknesses are the reason why he is unused. As this thread has pointed out, he has great stats, and a decent movepool.

The most ironic part here lies within how you first call me a nitwit, then proceed to agree with me.
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You stated that Probopass had bad typing when Boa said the same thing in the first post. Our local watchman committee did not agree with you. He was referring to Boa right under the quote, and saying that the nose thingy does indeed have bad typing. Post better or don't post at all.

Anyway, as for the actual discussion, I've always liked the idea of using Probopass. However, your EVs were a little off, as you implied. Probopass seems like it would benefit more from running a +Def nature if you're always in SS. Maybe you meant that, but it's not there. I also suggest the usage of explosion and enough attack EVs to OHKO Blissey. I dunno if you need a +Nature or anything, but if you don't, then I don't see why not. He can't recover reliably anyway, so why not put a huge dent in something when he survives maybe even an SE hit? This seems like a great idea to me, but what are your thoughts? Also, I think Thunder might be of use, simply for the paralysis. And, as Obi pointed out, it has normal accuracy in SS.

Oh, and simply because I enjoy calling people dumbasses:

Dumbass

Oh, and yay for 555 post?
 
I think you need to do more damage calcs than just Specsmence. For example, consider Gengar and Togekiss, two of the most common special sweepers, who will punch a giant hole right through this thing with special fighting moves. Blissey can often at least somewhat handle these threats by paralyzing them before they have a chance to do too much damage, but Probopass will be one or two hit koed.

It would probably do a nice job of walling Azelf if you paralyze it before it can nasty plot too much, unless it's got HP fighting. Porygon Z too. But not Heatran. Not Infernape. Not even Starmie.

I mean this isn't even factoring in its relative inability to really DO anything back. It fails even as a special wall in my opinion.
 
It could be useful in some instances. The thing is...for trapping/killing steel types, Magnezone is generally going to be more effective (it can use Magnet Rise better thanks to higher base speed, much more offensive power, etc), so you're left with walling as Probopass's main selling point. Most physical sweepers are going to be carrying a fighting/ground attack, so special walling is the better side to go for (plus SS boost). So, on that note...can you give some more damage calculations for what it can do? It'd be useful to see how well it can wall some OU special threats like Azelf, all-special Infernape, Gengar, Magnezone (double trap, lol), and Porygon-Z.
 
Eh. I really want to use Probopass, but it's got really low HP, and that puts me off using it. You give good moves and calculations, but the 4x weakness to Fighting and Ground coupled with the base 60 HP is why I don't use Probopass. I would say that he is usable in UU, however.
 
I would say that he is usable in UU, however.
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That he is ... he's a rather good special wall in UU. He can beat heavy hitters like Manectric and Rotom one on one, as well as providing some useful coverage of the CB Birds.
 
Obi said:
Thunder has normal accuracy and power in Sand.
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People on Shoddy keep telling me it reduces accuracy to 50%- It seemed such "common knowledge" that I just accepted it.
Link to Analysis= http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23489

Also, I don't think you posted the nature.
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Thank you, and you're right. The nature is bold, I'll edit that in.
I really can't add much to the discussion, other than to say that "Internet Exploder" is one of the BEST TYPOS EVER.
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That was intentional :) XD
I mean this isn't even factoring in its relative inability to really DO anything back. It fails even as a special wall in my opinion.
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It has thunder wave, and in fact its special attack stat is the same as Blissey's, while Earth Power is a pretty badass move (and flash cannon gets STAB I guess); If you run a gravity-based team, it can run even more support than thunderwave, too. Of course, Blissey can Gravity as well, but usually has other things to be doing.

I think you need to do more damage calcs than just Specsmence.
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Specsmence was simply a control to compare his damage taken to Blissey's; For water and fighting moves, he takes a little over double, and for ground he takes quad (on the special side, anyway).

He'll completely fuck up any Porygon-Z's day, resisting... Well, everything it has, including a 4x resist to normal. XD
So, on that note...can you give some more damage calculations for what it can do? It'd be useful to see how well it can wall some OU special threats like Azelf, all-special Infernape, Gengar, Magnezone (double trap, lol), and Porygon-Z.
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If Blissey can wall it, this can wall it as well (barring water/ground attacks) or even better.
 
"Barring water/ground attacks" was sort of my point though. Most special sweepers have a fighting, water, or ground attack now. The few things you are going to wall just don't justify it compared to Blissey or Cresselia imo.
 
Keep in mind that it resists beam, is neutral to bolt, and stymies normal and flying, all equally common attacking types compared to fight/ground/water.

And if you look at his #1 job as steel trapper, he ruins Skarms, Jirachi, Forretress, Bronzong, and Scizor. Not a single one of them normally carries fight/ground/water. Probopass in this regard is a wall-buster of huge proportions.

Magnezone, Metagross, Empoleon, and Heatran all have Earth Power, EQ, or Surf to hurt him on the switch so they're out.
 
If I had Probopass and Blissey on my team and I knew Azelf didn't carry HP Fighting, I would switch Probpass into it. Why?
- Blissey can be OHKOed by Explosion. Probopass can probably take three Azelf Explosions and still be in one piece.
- Blissey is on the whole a lot more contributive to the team than Probopass

I can't be arsed with damage calculations by now but as long as you're in Sandstream even Grass Knot shouldn't do too much damage.
 
I've used Probopass once, on a team where I was only trying to go for that Sandstorm thing that newbies love so much where they don't use a type other than Rock/Ground/Steel. As long as Skarmory didn't have Shed Shell, I found Taunt/Thunder/Toxic/Stealth Rock really effective. It's nice to get in that random Toxic on Swampert/something else when you think Probopass has done it's job, which is fuck Skarmory and laid out SR.
 
Boa1891 said:
He'll completely fuck up any Porygon-Z's day, resisting... Well, everything it has, including a 4x resist to normal. XD
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Do most PorygonZ really not have Hidden Power Fighting? If not, they really should lol. Tri Attack, Dark Pulse, and Hidden Power Fighting cover everything. Adaptability Tri Attack is nearly as powerful as SE Ice Beam, and HP Fighting is stronger against almost all Normal resists than Ice Beam (except Cradily and Rock / Ground types).
 
I have seen Porygon-Z with Hidden Power Fighting, but most of them seem to have Ice Beam instead. I'd say about 65% use Ice Beam and 35% use Hidden Power Fighting.

So HP Fighting on Porygon-Z is relatively common, but most of the time people seem to use Ice Beam.
 
I'm pretty sure Discharge is a physical move.. correct me if I'm wrong though.

I really like Probopass and would totally use him if I had a Nosepass to breed (:DD) but I don't.. :/ I really like your set idea though.
 
TaiwaneseDude said:
I'm pretty sure Discharge is a physical move.. correct me if I'm wrong though.

I really like Probopass and would totally use him if I had a Nosepass to breed (:DD) but I don't.. :/ I really like your set idea though.
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It's not, otherwise luxray might be BL. your thinking of spark.


To scout a litle, couldn't possibly use protect to get lefties recov and, LOL, toxicstall?
 
Why do I get the feeling of Deja vu? I seem to recall Boa already making a Probopass thread...oh well.

So HP Fighting on Porygon-Z is relatively common, but most of the time people seem to use Ice Beam.
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I think that could be attributed to three things.
-People just remember "Boltbeam = Good"
-Some forget HP is now special for every type
-In the game its a bitch to breed for HP
 
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