SM OU Primarina Bulky Offense Peaked 1818 on ladder

[Twilight]

Introduction

Hey guys I recently got back into competitive Pokemon after taking a break from the game. I pulled this team together to build around primarina which was originally Liquid Voice but I found due to its lack of offensive normal moves I just built around it generally. I can't take credit for the creativity of some of the sets or the use of Mandibuzz for example without coming across Omari P's thread :) Overall I have had a lot of success with this team losing about 4-5 games during my climb from around mid 1500s to 1800s (got bored so stopped climbing when I peaked here). The main niche of this team is how most people expect most of these Pokemon to be choice locked which catches your opponent off surprise.

Team Builder

So I started with primarina and during the team building I hadn't decided on the set yet other than I wanted it to hit as hard as possible while being a soft check to ash-greninja and keldeo.

Next I added Victini which is the set which caught my eye was the P-Punch wallbrekaing set which helps Primarina muscle through Bulu and Tangrowth much better.

The next member added was tapu koko because the team is quite slow and I wanted a fast pivot when needed to get my breakers in, also pressures water types which could be an issue.

Mandibuzz is the fourth member which when I checked the calcs realised how great this mon is at taking a hit from a plethora of physical attackers whilst being my defogger.

Then I added Ferrothorn because one I needed stealth rocks and two my team had no switch in to tapu koko.

Finally I added Steelium-Z Zygarde as my sweeper but through testing I found it just wasn't effective enough at helping with the stall match up. Instead I decided to use mega Garchomp which is great imo. Pre mega it is faster than medi and zygarde and once evolved hits like a truck.

Proof Of Peak: Elise You Tried

The Team​

Ariel (Primarina) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

Primarina is what I built this team around initially and with the given set allows it to be an effective wallbreaker plus special wall. The Assault Vest lets you tank hits from Ash-Greninja and Keldeo for days. I decided to run a Modest with max special attack to just hit as hard as possible. The first move is surf which is the primary water stab for Primarina to hit Heatran and Lando as well as hitting AV Magearna the hardest. The Hidden Power Fire is to 2OHKO the Ferrothorn on the switch and if they make the kartana play it OHKO's. Moonblast is to hit the dragon types in the tier as well as Greninja and Keldeo the two Mons it can easily hit any hit from. Finally I am running Energy Ball to hit the likes of Swampert and other bulky water types. Initially it was Psychic for Toxapex but in my entire climb I never pressed Psychic once let alone saw a Toxapex so the last move is up to you I guess. What I love about Primarina is a lot of people expect you to be Choice locked which catches so many people off guard and I can't lie that I haven't just single handily one games because of this monster.

Calcs

252+ SpA Primarina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primarina Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 380-450 (99.4 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 89-105 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 89-105 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 109-130 (31.7 - 37.9%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Primarina Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Slowbro: 242-286 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primarina Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 302-356 (78.2 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primarina Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 170-200 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

All Might (Victini) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Power-Up Punch
- Glaciate

I found this Victini set to be very effective as once I reveal I am a physical offensive set with Bolt Strike or V-create it baits in a potential Landorus the next turn where you can predict and hit it with a Glaciate. This is another Pokemon which most people expect to be choice locked but the Expert Belt lets it do extra damage if super effective. A Lonely nature allows it to hit as hard as possible on the physical side making it an amazing wallbreaker. Bolt Strike lets me break through Toxapex and other bulky water types with ease especially after a Power-Up Punch which allows you to boost your attack which again makes breaking so much easier. V-create is victini's signature move which blows back anything that pretty much doesn't resist it and I have been able to take advantage of the speed decrease under trick room to sweep xD. Glaciate is mainly there just for Zygarde and Landorus the two prominent ground types which are 4x weak to Ice as both can be baited in with the movepool.​

Calcs

4 SpA Expert Belt Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 274-326 (85.8 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Expert Belt Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 274-326 (71.7 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 324-382 (106.9 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 297-349 (70.7 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Gastrodon: 273-321 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 325-384 (84.8 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Coco (Tapu Koko) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Next I added a pretty standard Scarf Koko set which is my main revenge killer and potential sweeper. Rash nature improves its special attack because you lose a lot of your power running scarf over specs for example. Thunderbolt is standard stab move which there isn't much to explain about. I decided to run U-turn over Volt Switch to just guarantee the momentum in moments where its a 50/50 and can also be used to hit Hoopa-U if I need to revenge kill it. Brave Bird is solely for Volcarona as I do not want to be swept by this Pokemon. Hidden Power Ice lets me hit the prominent ground types and revenge kill them being Landorus and Zygarde.

Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Ok so Mandibuzz is the GOAT I didn't realise how well it soaks up hits from Pinsir and other offensive Mons like Kartana etc. The given speed EVs are solely to outpseed max speed adamant Mawile and get some chip damage with foul play for a last ditch effort. Foul Play is my way of hitting back and potentially OHKOing offensive mons especially after the set up for example. Toxic lets me wear down checks which might switch-in like Zapdos for example. Roost is to improve my longetivity and defog is to remove hazards though with how offensive my team is I do try to force my opponent to switch rather than get them up. Overall the set is standard and not much else to say.

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Mandibuzz: 344-405 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 315-372 (121.1 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Mandibuzz: 319-376 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 301-355 (111 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Mandibuzz: 180-213 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Mandibuzz: 154-183 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Protect

Next I added Ferrothorn because this team got blown back by Tapu Koko and while it could be problematic if it is running hidden power fire I have yet to see one run it, either way you could still play around it. This is the standard Ferrothorn set pretty much everyone is running so I won't bother explaining too much of it other than I chose SR over spikes as every team needs it and I chose Protect over Knock Off to improve longevity, scout for moves (especially Z moves) and potential block a High Jump Kick.

Dat Jawline Tho (Garchomp-Mega) (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 529-624 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 308-364 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 528-624 (150 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Garchomp is an amazing Pokemon in my opinion and for someone that uses Cynthia as there trainer how could I not add my boi right? Basically Mega Garchomp can be used to make your opponent think your choice locked or just a standard non-mega set. Jolly with max speed lets my outspeed Medicham and Zygarde pre mega evolution which is sometimes the better play to make before Mega evolving. Though if against stall there is no reason not to evolve off the bat. Dragon claw being one of Chomp's main stab moves which I went over outrage so that I am not locked in to it. Earthquake is the secondary stab move which hits anything grounded hard, not much else to explain really. Fire Fang is to dumpster Ferrothorn and Tapu Bulu. Swords Dance boosts it's attack to insane levels and makes breaking so much easier.

Conclusion

Overall this is the most effective team I have used and I am sure I could probably climb higher but I don't really have the time to do so. While yes this team probably has a lot of threats and things it struggles to beat which one was stall which I made the swap necessary for but that doesn't mean it is the only thing. I am not going to list a threat list for this reason because no matter what you can always play around the threat e.g. Magnezone was a nuisance as technically Ferrothorn is my best switch but it gets trapped, so making appropriate doubles is the way to go against this Pokemon. I hope you guys enjoy the team, sorry it isn't completely original but I hope you like it regardless and if you have any improvements do let me know, I am all ears!!

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-717998339
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-718005861
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-718015549
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-717794864
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-717797767

Importable

All Might (Victini) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Power-Up Punch
- Glaciate

Ariel (Primarina) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

G O A T (Mandibuzz) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Hug Me (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Protect

Coco (Tapu Koko) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Dat Jawline Tho (Garchomp-Mega) (M) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance

​

​

 

[Prisoner952]

Nice team, I’ve tried to use Primarina a few times myself in ou but it never really worked out for me.

One thing I would reccomend, however, is that you use liquid voice as Primarina’s ability and switch surf to hyper voice. This will let you hit past substitutes, which can be helpful against things like heatran. Torrent is still nice to have, but probably not as useful.

set

Ariel (Primarina) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Liquid Voice
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

I approve the victini ( i use av tini with the same moves) and the mandi. try out diff moves on prima tho - Omari P

 

[Twilight]

Nice team, I’ve tried to use Primarina a few times myself in ou but it never really worked out for me.

One thing I would reccomend, however, is that you use liquid voice as Primarina’s ability and switch surf to hyper voice. This will let you hit past substitutes, which can be helpful against things like heatran. Torrent is still nice to have, but probably not as useful.

set

Ariel (Primarina) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Liquid Voice
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

That makes sense lol, I think i assumed it was an -ate ability so it was nerfed. I will try it out today and make any changes as there have only been a few instances where being in torrent range is nice

 

[Twilight]

I approve the victini ( i use av tini with the same moves) and the mandi. try out diff moves on prima tho - Omari P

I will definitely try other moves on prima. It just sucks that it's movepool is so small as my only other options are scald, shadow ball and ice beam/blizzard pretty much. I'll still try them out, so thanks for the suggestion

 

[DinoCam5203]

Personally, I agree with switching out Surf on Primarina. But, seeing how you only have one water type move, I would suggest using Torrent + Sparkling Aria. This is because all three usable moves, Surf, Liquid Voice Hyper Voice, and Sparkling Aria, have base 90 power. Furthermore, Torrent will provide a boost to your water type moves when you are low on health and Sparkling Aria still hits through Substitute. Finally, there's no concern about healing burns as your team has no Will-O-Wisp users. Overall, I believe Sparkling Aria to be the best choice for your Primarina.

 

[Twilight]

Personally, I agree with switching out Surf on Primarina. But, seeing how you only have one water type move, I would suggest using Torrent + Sparkling Aria. This is because all three usable moves, Surf, Liquid Voice Hyper Voice, and Sparkling Aria, have base 90 power. Furthermore, Torrent will provide a boost to your water type moves when you are low on health and Sparkling Aria still hits through Substitute. Finally, there's no concern about healing burns as your team has no Will-O-Wisp users. Overall, I believe Sparkling Aria to be the best choice for your Primarina.

Thanks for the suggestion I didn't realise it went through substitute because it is a sound based move. I'll definitely try this as I can keep the torrent boosted when I am in range. And true I don't have anything that burns so there is no drawback.

 

[Chokepic]

Hey, Im a primarina fan too (I have a rmt with it also), so I will rate your team. Here are my changes:

1. You should change av primarina to specs primarina. Its main niche is to break teams with its hydro pump, av is not really doing that and, yes, it switches to gash and keldeo, but it hasnt a way to recover HP and it is going to suffer if hazards are up. Btw, run hydro pump, psychic, moonblast and scald/surf.

2. Scarf Landorus-t > Garchomp-Mega. Garchomp-mega is horrible, sorry. This helps with the speed tier of your team and you dont need to run scarf koko anymore. Not much to say here. You can also try scarf chomp, tho lando-t is simply better because of u-turn for bringing victini into setup bait mons.

3. Latias-mega > Mandibuzz. As garchomp-mega, mandibuzz is not an optimal mon. This is a more reliable defogger and also gives you speed control. I would run 252 hp 252 spe with t-wave or even reflect type, psychic, defog and recover.

4. Scarf Koko > Shuca Berry Koko. Now that you have scarf lando, you dont need to run the suboptimal scarf koko.

5. Z-celebrate victini > e-belt tini. You dont have a z, and its victini best set, so why not put it? This is a set which normally you need to build around, but you have the correct partnerts for it (Latias-Mega for removing hazards, koko and lando to give it momentum and also primarina checks are setup bait for it if you double (toxapex, amoonguss...)

I hope you like my changes, have a good day!

Edit: I did it too similar to my team and I didnt realise, sorry :/

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Hey, Im a primarina fan too (I have a rmt with it also), so I will rate your team. Here are my changes:

1. You should change av primarina to specs primarina. Its main niche is to break teams with its hydro pump, av is not really doing that and, yes, it switches to gash and keldeo, but it hasnt a way to recover HP and it is going to suffer if hazards are up. Btw, run hydro pump, psychic, moonblast and scald/surf.

2. Scarf Landorus-t > Garchomp-Mega. Garchomp-mega is horrible, sorry. This helps with the speed tier of your team and you dont need to run scarf koko anymore. Not much to say here. You can also try scarf chomp, tho lando-t is simply better because of u-turn for bringing victini into setup bait mons.

3. Latias-mega > Mandibuzz. As garchomp-mega, mandibuzz is not an optimal mon. This is a more reliable defogger and also gives you speed control. I would run 252 hp 252 spe with t-wave or even reflect type, psychic, defog and recover.

4. Scarf Koko > Shuca Berry Koko. Now that you have scarf lando, you dont need to run the suboptimal scarf koko.

5. Z-celebrate victini > e-belt tini. You dont have a z, and its victini best set, so why not put it? This is a set which normally you need to build around, but you have the correct partnerts for it (Latias-Mega for removing hazards, koko and lando to give it momentum and also primarina checks are setup bait for it if you double (toxapex, amoonguss...)

I hope you like my changes, have a good day!

Edit: I did it too similar to my team and I didnt realise, sorry :/

a lot of things here -

1 - specs primarina and av do completely diff things, and specs is worthless on this team
2 - idc about this lol
3 - not only is mandibuzz bulkier than mega latias, it actually beats it - doesnt matte rbut thought it was funny. also mandibuzz takes on far more mons than mega lati, and I have a feeling that you have never actually tried mandibuzz.
4 - you seem to use the term suboptimal a lot, i dont think you know what that means. Not only is this point dependent on using scarf lando, scarf koko is his emergency check from the looks of it while shucha would be okoed.
5 - z celebrate is not its best set, is special, and you should really try out the set he used instead of blindly giving opinions

 

[Twilight]

Hey, Im a primarina fan too (I have a rmt with it also), so I will rate your team. Here are my changes:

1. You should change av primarina to specs primarina. Its main niche is to break teams with its hydro pump, av is not really doing that and, yes, it switches to gash and keldeo, but it hasnt a way to recover HP and it is going to suffer if hazards are up. Btw, run hydro pump, psychic, moonblast and scald/surf.

2. Scarf Landorus-t > Garchomp-Mega. Garchomp-mega is horrible, sorry. This helps with the speed tier of your team and you dont need to run scarf koko anymore. Not much to say here. You can also try scarf chomp, tho lando-t is simply better because of u-turn for bringing victini into setup bait mons.

3. Latias-mega > Mandibuzz. As garchomp-mega, mandibuzz is not an optimal mon. This is a more reliable defogger and also gives you speed control. I would run 252 hp 252 spe with t-wave or even reflect type, psychic, defog and recover.

4. Scarf Koko > Shuca Berry Koko. Now that you have scarf lando, you dont need to run the suboptimal scarf koko.

5. Z-celebrate victini > e-belt tini. You dont have a z, and its victini best set, so why not put it? This is a set which normally you need to build around, but you have the correct partnerts for it (Latias-Mega for removing hazards, koko and lando to give it momentum and also primarina checks are setup bait for it if you double (toxapex, amoonguss...)

I hope you like my changes, have a good day!

Edit: I did it too similar to my team and I didnt realise, sorry :/

I don't agree with many of these changes other than that Mega Garchomp could be swapped out for something else though I wouldn't choose scarf Landorus. I chose scarf tapu koko for a reason, which as Omari P and I in the RMT stated, to be a last resort if something was setting up like Volcarona or Pinsir. Scarf Landorus would not be able to achieve this if I ran it, especially not in the case of volc.
I mainly needed a ground type just to restrict volt switch so yeah I could maybe use a SD Lando or another ground type, but I just went with Chomp as I think it is underrated. I wouldn't say the Pokemon is horrible it's just very situational on how effective it can be. It's ability may be redundant most of the time but if the opponent does set up sand then it's only going to let it's EQ hit harder.

As for the other changes I don't think specs would be better here mainly because I think it is better to be able to switch up moves against threats that come in as they may expect me to be choice locked, plus it does break due to running modest nature. I can't stress how many times I have won games because of AV Prima. With the calcs shown I show how much dmg it can output due to it's already high SpA. Also the only reason I don't run hydro is the accuracy and it's PP.

Latias Mega is something I don't think should run defog because it is something that would rather sweep than wall, plus I am pretty sure due to it's weaknesses it is more effective as a special wall in most cases. It doesn't check some of the physical threats that Mandi can imo.

And by no means would I say Z celebrate Tini is the best set it's just the most popular because it becomes an effective sweeper but that isn't the purpose for Tini on this team. I want it to wallbreak and bait in Landorus to remove it, and while yes I don't have a z-move I could quite easily implement one onto Victini I guess or even apply it if I swapped Chomp out.

Thanks for the rate either way, I will look into an alternative for Garchomp, though there isn't much choice and I would rather not result to Landorus which everyone is using if I am honest. Other than that appreciate the time you put into the suggestions.

 

[Chokepic]

I don't agree with many of these changes other than that Mega Garchomp could be swapped out for something else though I wouldn't choose scarf Landorus. I chose scarf tapu koko for a reason, which as Omari P and I in the RMT stated, to be a last resort if something was setting up like Volcarona or Pinsir. Scarf Landorus would not be able to achieve this if I ran it, especially not in the case of volc.
I mainly needed a ground type just to restrict volt switch so yeah I could maybe use a SD Lando or another ground type, but I just went with Chomp as I think it is underrated. I wouldn't say the Pokemon is horrible it's just very situational on how effective it can be. It's ability may be redundant most of the time but if the opponent does set up sand then it's only going to let it's EQ hit harder.

As for the other changes I don't think specs would be better here mainly because I think it is better to be able to switch up moves against threats that come in as they may expect me to be choice locked, plus it does break due to running modest nature. I can't stress how many times I have won games because of AV Prima. With the calcs shown I show how much dmg it can output due to it's already high SpA. Also the only reason I don't run hydro is the accuracy and it's PP.

Latias Mega is something I don't think should run defog because it is something that would rather sweep than wall, plus I am pretty sure due to it's weaknesses it is more effective as a special wall in most cases. It doesn't check some of the physical threats that Mandi can imo.

And by no means would I say Z celebrate Tini is the best set it's just the most popular because it becomes an effective sweeper but that isn't the purpose for Tini on this team. I want it to wallbreak and bait in Landorus to remove it, and while yes I don't have a z-move I could quite easily implement one onto Victini I guess or even apply it if I swapped Chomp out.

Thanks for the rate either way, I will look into an alternative for Garchomp, though there isn't much choice and I would rather not result to Landorus which everyone is using if I am honest. Other than that appreciate the time you put into the suggestions.

Ok, if you want to keep av primarina, run it, but dont run scarf koko for volcarona, because assuming volcarona has giga drain (it usually doesnt) it does a 40% (+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 148-176 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Thats why i suggested scarf lando, it helps you vs other setup sweepers like gyarados-mega and it doesnt lose as much power as koko does. Scarf Koko wouldnt be that bad for the team i suggested tho, it is really weak to volcarona, but if you want to keep av primarina, i think scarf koko isnt really necessary.

If you want to still run e-belt tini, maybe the cm + electrium/fairium koko would work, because you dont have a z yet. Mandibuzz is the thing i feel like you should really change, it is weak to rocks, which is pretty bad for a defogger, and it also cant defog vs stallbreakers like tran because it is just so slow, forcing it to go out without defogging and taking another 25% the next time it goes in, also, Thunder Pwoell, I dont see how can mandibuzz be fun but well, im just trying to improve the team and I dont like mandi for the reasons said before.

I hope at least you consider my changes!

 

[Twilight]

Ok, if you want to keep av primarina, run it, but dont run scarf koko for volcarona, because assuming volcarona has giga drain (it usually doesnt) it does a 40% (+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 148-176 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Thats why i suggested scarf lando, it helps you vs other setup sweepers like gyarados-mega and it doesnt lose as much power as koko does. Scarf Koko wouldnt be that bad for the team i suggested tho, it is really weak to volcarona, but if you want to keep av primarina, i think scarf koko isnt really necessary.

If you want to still run e-belt tini, maybe the cm + electrium/fairium koko would work, because you dont have a z yet. Mandibuzz is the thing i feel like you should really change, it is weak to rocks, which is pretty bad for a defogger, and it also cant defog vs stallbreakers like tran because it is just so slow, forcing it to go out without defogging and taking another 25% the next time it goes in, also, Thunder Pwoell, I dont see how can mandibuzz be fun but well, im just trying to improve the team and I dont like mandi for the reasons said before.

I hope at least you consider my changes!

yeah I will consider your changes for the scarfed Pokemon but your point about Mandibuzz being a bad defogger is irrelevant because Zapdos is also weak to rocks yet it is still a good defogger. It also doesn't defog on stallbreakers like Heatran. The sole purpose of Mandi is to wall physical threats just like Zapdos does. Yeah Zapdos can fish for a para but that is unconventional so no player should do that unless they intend to sack it. Yes if Mandi is in then it can't touch Heatran on the switch but it isn't hard to make the appropriate double in my opinion. With how much offensive pressure this team has the main goal is to prevent rocks going up in the first place and Mandi finds plenty of opportunities to defog. I will definitely test the other change but I see no real issue with Mandi.

 

[Chokepic]

yeah I will consider your changes for the scarfed Pokemon but your point about Mandibuzz being a bad defogger is irrelevant because Zapdos is also weak to rocks yet it is still a good defogger. It also doesn't defog on stallbreakers like Heatran. The sole purpose of Mandi is to wall physical threats just like Zapdos does. Yeah Zapdos can fish for a para but that is unconventional so no player should do that unless they intend to sack it. Yes if Mandi is in then it can't touch Heatran on the switch but it isn't hard to make the appropriate double in my opinion. With how much offensive pressure this team has the main goal is to prevent rocks going up in the first place and Mandi finds plenty of opportunities to defog. I will definitely test the other change but I see no real issue with Mandi.

I dont also like zapdos too much as a defogger because of that, tho it isnt as passive as mandibuzz is and it has some good covering options, it usually struggles with the same things. Now that I have all said, Im going to leave the conversation. Gl with laddering!

 

[jorxvader]

Hi, I'm a Primarina fan too, love that mon.

1- You should change Surf to Sparkling Aria. With this set you can outspeed defensive Celesteela and neutral non-speed invested base 70 like Skarmory, Psychic for Toxapex, Amoongus and M-Venusaur. Honestly, I prefer Primarina Specs over AV.
Funny calc:
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Torrent Primarina Sparkling Aria vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 314-372 (105.7 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Primarina (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sparkling Aria
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

2- M- Garchomp ->
Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

3- Victini -> M-Charizard X 3 attacks+Roost or DD Roost + Flare Blitz and EQ. Char-X makes a great defensive and ofensive core with Ferrothorn and Primarina. Also is a great offensive core with Koko.

4- Ferrothorn Stealth Rock + Protect ->Knock Off + Spikes. I'm not a big fan of Defog+Spikes+SR, but Spikes+SR helps a lot SD Garchomp, Primarina, Char-X and Koko break teams. Knock Off remove Eviolite Chansey, scarf kartana and Lando-T and other annoying shits.

5- With the changes in the team, I think the best set for Tapu Koko is the following:
Tapu Koko @ Magnet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power Ice
Support pivot Koko helps a lot, taunt entry hazads, momentum. U can deal Defensive Lando-T +1 Z-Outrage with Garchomp, HP Ice Koko predicts and Primarina, also Primarina hits hards Sparkling Aria (voice move) to Sub Double Dance Zygarde, subtrapper Heatran, etc.

I hope some of this may have helped you something.