Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon In-Game Tier list (v2)

[Geta92]

I mostly replayed the game to test Venusaur and Marowak and I gotta say, one I liked very much and the other one not so much.

Hawlucha (ingame-trade): Arguably the highest tiered Pokémon up until Generation 7. Comes early, has a good nature and IVS, does not need support, learns good attacks, has favorable type matchups right away and until the end and gains tons of bonus experience to keep overleved at all times. If anything, we may need a tier beyond S-tier because its performance is way beyond Mudsdale. It naturally learns Endeavor which if coupled with the free Focus Sash later on means you can Endeavor Ultra-Necrozma, get your Unburden speed boost and then KO it hilariously easy.

Mudsdale: Stamina allows it to stall pretty much every physical attacker which doesn’t hit for super effective damage and the ground type is generally very useful in Alola. The early 95 BP move certainly helps as well. The only downside is the speed, but since lots of your enemies are either frail or also very slow, the issue isn’t as relevant as it would be in previous titles. The Quick Claw I got early on helped it more than any other item did. Random priority was appreciated and happened a lot more than I anticipated. It learns all the moves it wants by itself with the only exception being Rock Slide which you get soon enough to keep up with the increasing power of enemies. If you ever need to heal, you likely got so many Stamina boosts that you don't need to heal ever again during the same battle. Its S-tier status is unquestionable.

Primarina: The lack of early Scald compared to the original Sun and Moon was a very big minus since its water type is the only relevant one until very late into the game after you get Moonblast and your secondary typing. Overall, its first two stages perform average with the only major event being able to beat Kiawe with Z-Water Pledge easily. Although I required the Soothe Bell from Route 3 to reach the happiness and a detour to be able to get the move. I’m not quite sure if it ended up being worth it instead of just using Bubble Beam. Until fully evolved, its only benefit to me was it being a somewhat bulky water type, nothing more. The good experience group at least meant that it kept along with the average level of my team, even though I rarely used. It suddenly turned really good once it fully evolved. It attains a quite wide special moveset, one that is good enough to make it a suitable user for Expert Belt outside of boss battles. When fully evolved, it did two-hit pretty much anything and took hits pretty well so healing was very manageable and not excessive at all. The extra-strong Z-move is a nice plus. It feels more like a B-tier to me as the first two stages were too much of a letdown.

Venusaur: The scan feature makes is very easy to find fast and it’s as early as Route 2. It felt like a better version of Primarina early because Grassy Terrain enabled it to heal and boost itself right away. While I eventually dropped Grassy Terrain I kept Sleep Powder all until the end because it remained a useful asset for pretty much all neutral matchups. It paired especially well with Giga Drain which can be picked up right after your first Mantine Surf and is an absolute must for it to remain relevant. It’s surprisingly good speed for being a bulky Pokémon coupled with Giga Drain and Sleep really made it a fun and very consistent pick in the end. While it takes a while to get access to Venoshock and later Sludge Bomb, the coverage wasn’t actually as important as I initially assumed. A very fun gimmick was the ability to pick up Nature Power on Route 5 and equip the Normalium-Z in order to patch up its type coverage with moves depending on the environment which can also be turned into a variety of Z-Moves. This means you can use a 175 BP Bloom Doom using Grassy Terrain or in any grassy environments (pretty much all routes) before you even attain the grass crystal. I didn’t always take advantage of this, only for a couple super effective grass, normal, rock, water and ground Z-Moves but it may be good enough of a gimmick to be further investigated. The early final evolution was appreciated as well and I definitely think it should be considered an average entry in the A-tier as I didn’t have any problems or unexpected KO’s with it at all.

Alolan Marowak: I played Ultra Moon so I was only able to catch a Cubone, steal Kiawe’s Thick Club and use one that way. The Cubone phase was kind of average, it required lots of healing but STAB Bonemerang helped it a lot. The lack of a ghost STAB until the Pokémon League using the Move Relearner was a pretty huge letdown because its fully evolved typing is kind of good offensively but very poor defensively. You barely get any benefit from your ghost typing as the AI isn't as stupid as to try to spam normal moves on you. You absolutely need to learn Fire Punch via Tutor to get a strong fire STAB because Flare Blitz comes late and is unviable as Marowak cannot afford to sacrifice its own HP with its bad bulk and speed. In the end, Marowak was the least used member of my team by far because it may have had the power to one-shot a lot of enemies, but it had trouble switching in when it counts and was fainted a lot due to its poor HP and very low speed, even for Alolan standards. I rarely required fire coverage as well. Mine had Cursed Body, but I would strongly advice everyone to consider hunting for one that gets Lightning Rod later if you can as an electric immunity would have been very useful for quite a few matchups and free switch-ins. Cursed Body never helped me at all. I’d rather put it in low B-tier. A-tier feels very unjustified because it may be good with some speed setup (X-Speed or one or two Flame Charges), but you really don’t want to set up on every other fight, especially on games as slow as USUM. I cannot speak for the totem variant, but I highly doubt it is S-tier material although I agree with later posts below that Rock Head, no babying and Shadow Bone early is a nice plus.

Magnezone: Its only downsides are that it remains Magnemite for too long and has to wait for its high BP attacks. It’s typing comes in handy offensively and especially defensively literally everywhere. It takes a while to learn high BP attacks, so upgrading Thunder Shock to Shockwave and adding Signal Beam to not only resist but also counter psychic types using the Beach Tutor felt very necessary. Mine evolved right before the Power Plant, so I skipped straight to Magnezone when I arrived there. It ended up making great use of the free Choice Specs I got at the Tapu Village later and kept that item until the very end as resisting attacks and spamming its STAB moves worked against most opponents, strategies beyond that seemed very unnecessary. The sheer amount of enemies that lack any good coverage moves to be able to damage Magnezone was very surprising. Its current spot in the A-tier feels very justified in the end.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I mostly replayed the game to test Venusaur and Marowak and I gotta say, one I liked very much and the other one not so much.

Hawlucha (ingame-trade): Arguably the highest tiered Pokémon up until Generation 7. Comes early, has a good nature and IVS, does not need support, learns good attacks, has favorable type matchups right away and until the end and gains tons of bonus experience to keep overleved at all times. If anything, we may need a tier beyond S-tier because its performance is way beyond Mudsdale. It naturally learns Endeavor which if coupled with the free Focus Sash later on means you can Endeavor Ultra-Necrozma, get your Unburden speed boost and then KO it hilariously easy.

Mudsdale: Stamina allows it to stall pretty much every physical attacker which doesn’t hit for super effective damage and the ground type is generally very useful in Alola. The early 95 BP move certainly helps as well. The only downside is the speed, but since lots of your enemies are either frail or also very slow, the issue isn’t as relevant as it would be in previous titles. The Quick Claw I got early on helped it more than any other item did. Random priority was appreciated and happened a lot more than I anticipated. It learns all the moves it wants by itself with the only exception being Rock Slide which you get pretty soon after catching it anyways. If you every need to heal, you likely got so many Stamina boosts that you don't need to heal every again during the same battle. Its S-tier status is unquestionable.

Primarina: The lack of early Scald compared to the original Sun and Moon was a very big minus since its water type is the only relevant one until very late into the game after you get Moonblast and your secondary typing. Overall, its first two stages perform average with the only major event being able to beat Kiawe with Z-Water Pledge easily. Although I required the Soothe Bell from Route 3 to reach the happiness and a detour to be able to get the move. I’m not quite sure if it ended up being worth it instead of just using Bubble Beam. Until fully evolved, its only benefit to me was it being a somewhat bulky water type, nothing more. The good experience group at least meant that it kept along with the average level of my team, even though I rarely used. It suddenly turned really good once it fully evolved. It attains a quite wide special moveset, one that is good enough to make it a suitable user for Expert Belt outside of boss battles. When fully evolved, it did two-hit pretty much anything and took hits pretty well so healing was very manageable and not excessive at all. The extra-strong Z-move is a nice plus. It feels more like a B-tier to me as the first two stages were too much of a letdown.

Venusaur: The scan feature makes is very easy to find fast and it’s as early as Route 2. It felt like a better version of Primarina early because Grassy Terrain enabled it to heal and boost itself right away. While I eventually dropped Grassy Terrain I kept Sleep Powder all until the end because it remained a useful asset for pretty much all neutral matchups. It paired especially well with Giga Drain which can be picked up right after your first Mantine Surf and is an absolute must for it to remain relevant. It’s surprisingly good speed for being a bulky Pokémon coupled with Giga Drain and Sleep really made it a fun and very consistent pick in the end. While it takes a while to get access to Venoshock and later Sludge Bomb, the coverage wasn’t actually as important as I initially assumed. A very fun gimmick was the ability to pick up Nature Power on Route 5 and equip the Normalium-Z in order to patch up its type coverage with moves depending on the environment which can also be turned into a variety of Z-Moves. This means you can use a 175 BP Bloom Doom using Grassy Terrain or in any grassy environments (pretty much all routes) before you even attain the grass crystal. I didn’t always take advantage of this, only for a couple super effective grass, normal, rock, water and ground Z-Moves but it may be good enough of a gimmick to be further investigated. The early final evolution was appreciated as well and I definitely think it should be considered an average entry in the A-tier as I didn’t have any problems or unexpected KO’s with it at all.

Alolan Marowak: I played Ultra Moon so I was only able to catch a Cubone, steal Kiawe’s Thick Club and use one that way. The Cubone phase was kind of average, it required lots of healing but STAB Bonemerang helped it a lot. The lack of a ghost STAB until the Pokémon League using the Move Relearner was a pretty huge letdown because its fully evolved typing is kind of good offensively but very poor defensively. You barely get any benefit from your ghost typing as the AI isn't as stupid as to try to spam normal moves on you. You absolutely need to learn Fire Punch via Tutor to get a strong fire STAB because Flare Blitz comes late and is unviable as Marowak cannot afford to sacrifice its own HP with its bad bulk and speed. In the end, Marowak was the least used member of my team by far because it may have had the power to one-shot a lot of enemies, but it had trouble switching in when it counts and was fainted a lot due to its poor HP and very low speed, even for Alolan standards. I rarely required fire coverage as well. Mine had Cursed Body, but I would strongly advice everyone to consider hunting for one that gets Lighting Rod later if you can as an electric immunity would have been very useful for quite a few matchups and free switch-ins. Cursed Body never helped me at all. I’d rather put it in low B-tier. A-tier feels very unjustified because it may be good with some speed setup (X-Speed or one or two Flame Charges), but you really don’t want to set up on every other fight, especially on games as slow as USUM. I cannot speak for the totem variant, but I highly doubt it is S-tier material and have my doubts about that one even being A-tier as well.

Magnezone: Its only downsides are that it remains Magnemite for too long and has to wait for its high BP attacks. It’s typing comes in handy offensively and especially defensively literally everywhere. It takes a while to learn high BP attacks, so upgrading Thunder Shock to Shockwave and adding Signal Beam to not only resist but also counter psychic types using the Beach Tutor felt very necessary. Mine evolved right before the Power Plant, so I skipped straight to Magnezone when I arrived there. It ended up making great use of the free Choice Specs I got at the Tapu Village later and kept that item until the very end as resisting attacks and spamming its STAB moves worked against most opponents, strategies beyond that seemed very unnecessary. The sheer amount of enemies that lack any good coverage moves to be able to damage Magnezone was very surprising. Its current spot in the A-tier feels very justified in the end.

I have to say this is an excellent post, thanks very much for contributing!

I love how substantial your opinions are: I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything by reading them fully. Seriously, fantastic post!

I do want to say Totem Alolan Marowak in Ultra Sun is DEFINITELY an A tier and probably still an S tier. While 40 stickers are a bit of a pain to get by Route 8, it more than makes up for it.

Thick Club, Flame Charge, Shadow Bone (actually has it unlike the normal variant) Brick Break, and Fire Punch with a very good level of 25 right before Lurantis is killer. The high moveset and relative ease of use make it ready to go freshly caught if you have the spare BP for Fire Punch.

When I used Totem Alolan Marowak, despite its relatively late acquisition, it smashed pretty much every fight save Kommo-o and Mimikyu (though it will hurt if you break Disguise first) and even then it got the Kommo-o to red. Thunder Punch later is the icing on the broken cake if you want it. I would view it similarly to Jynx in the Kanto games in that sure it’s late and requires work but absolutely trivialized 90% of the remaining bosses. I know you can’t test the Totem variant out but I assure you, it’s S ranking is very much justified, Shadow Bone and the level are just so good.

Also in regard to Popplio: I would say it has an argument for B, but I would need a fresh opinion on it myself perhaps.

but yeah great post seriously!

 

[Celeb]

Slow EXP Growth suuuuuuuuuuuuucks

Now, while anything else besides Erratic / Fluctuating / Slow usually doesn’t actively hinder my enjoyment of the game, a Slow mon like Gyarados feels like it’s pulling the rest of my team down by making me use it more. Like, most of my party members have a good level or so over it at pretty much all times even when Gyarados is probably my most used party member, and this is less on account of it carrying my team and more on the fact you have to use a Slow mon ALL THE TIME to keep pace with an average team.

This only changed when it FINALLY got Dragon Dance at level 45, a level I had to Rare Candy to reach for Guzma 2 (I fought pretty much everyone save the Kantonian Gym mooks / Nugget Bridge remake) while probably actively using Gyarados for mooks, like...70% of the time, if not more? And even then, to restate, I was roughly one level under at pretty much all times.

Gyarados is only a bit ahead on my team in levels now thanks to having DD to sweep boss fights, and I'm imagining the rest of my team will catch back up during the Aether raid. I Rare Candied Gyarados once because it would highly impact both Guzma 2 / Nanu (both of which WERE sweeps, though). Playing normally though, I can't see the average player getting Dragon Dance before the Aether raid or maybe even Poni Island.

Either way, whatever way I think about it, I can't see Slow / Erratic / Fluctuating in this game as anything but a detriment when you're encouraged to use EXP Share and thus, the rest of your team levels up in the background. Assuming the rest of your team has good EXP growth rates (mine have Medium Slow for Litten, Medium Fast for Oricorio, and Fast for Wishiwashi) this means a Slow growth rate has to be used EVERYWHERE. It's preventing me from getting a proper perspective on my other team members in the field because for pretty much all of Akala and Ula'ula, I was using Gyarados most of the time, and that is a problem that is just hard to ignore, because using Gyarados more means more scrutinizing from me on its ranking due to using it so much.

In my opinion, this problem lies mainly in Exp. Share and the game being build around it. In seventh generation, I used Pokemon in slow experience group a few times. I also dislike the fact that they tend to easily fall behind whenever other team members are having their time to shine. Drumstick, Your current team is even more problematic due to Wishiwashi. Comparing its experience requirements to Gyarados' reveals how broken this system is.

To get to level 60, Gyarados needs 270 000 experience. Half of that (135 000) puts Wishiwashi on level 55.
On the other hand, Wishiwashi needs 172 800 experience to reach level 60. Half of that (86 400) puts Gyarados on level 41.

Other comparisons

Gyarados (slow) level 60 (270 000 exp.) = Gumshoos (MF) level 51 (135 000 exp.)
Gumshoos (MF) level 60 (216 000 exp.) = Gyarados (slow) level 44 (108 000 exp.)
Gyarados (slow) level 60 (270 000 exp.) = Incineroar (MS) level 52 (135 000 exp.)
Incineroar (MS) level 60 (211 060 exp.) = Gyarados (slow) level 43 (105 530 exp.)

Of course, these don't take into the account that lower level Pokemon get more experience so differences in levels wouldn't be that big.

Despite the Exp. Share working like this, I wouldn't be too harsh on Pokemon in slow experience group. They tend to outlevel bosses anyway and the player can still use other Pokemon (even if less frequently). In other words - it makes the process of playing and testing more annoying but doesn't influence efficiency that much.

By the way, I think I did reach level 45 on a full team before Aether Raid and I had Passimian (another slow boy). I also glanced at full walkthrough of Ultra Sun on Youtube (the 14 hours long one) - the player had full team in 43-45 against Guzma in Po Town. Some other people had full teams above level 40 in their videos. Dragon Dance shouldn't be a big problem since average players may grind a bit or use rotom powers more.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

In my opinion, this problem lies mainly in Exp. Share and the game being build around it. In seventh generation, I used Pokemon in slow experience group a few times. I also dislike the fact that they tend to easily fall behind whenever other team members are having their time to shine. Drumstick, Your current team is even more problematic due to Wishiwashi. Comparing its experience requirements to Gyarados' reveals how broken this system is.

To get to level 60, Gyarados needs 270 000 experience. Half of that (135 000) puts Wishiwashi on level 55.
On the other hand, Wishiwashi needs 172 800 experience to reach level 60. Half of that (86 400) puts Gyarados on level 41.

Other comparisons

Gyarados (slow) level 60 (270 000 exp.) = Gumshoos (MF) level 51 (135 000 exp.)
Gumshoos (MF) level 60 (216 000 exp.) = Gyarados (slow) level 44 (108 000 exp.)
Gyarados (slow) level 60 (270 000 exp.) = Incineroar (MS) level 52 (135 000 exp.)
Incineroar (MS) level 60 (211 060 exp.) = Gyarados (slow) level 43 (105 530 exp.)

Of course, these don't take into the account that lower level Pokemon get more experience so differences in levels wouldn't be that big.

Despite the Exp. Share working like this, I wouldn't be too harsh on Pokemon in slow experience group. They tend to outlevel bosses anyway and the player can still use other Pokemon (even if less frequently). In other words - it makes the process of playing and testing more annoying but doesn't influence efficiency that much.

By the way, I think I did reach level 45 on a full team before Aether Raid and I had Passimian (another slow boy). I also glanced at full walkthrough of Ultra Sun on Youtube (the 14 hours long one) - the player had full team in 43-45 against Guzma in Po Town. Some other people had full teams above level 40 in their videos. Dragon Dance shouldn't be a big problem since average players may grind a bit or use rotom powers more.

Either way I still don't quite think Gyarados should be S. It's close sure but I think S should be best of the best. Mudbray and Hawlucha and Oricorio just feel easier to use to me.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

I mostly replayed the game to test Venusaur and Marowak and I gotta say, one I liked very much and the other one not so much.

Hawlucha (ingame-trade): Arguably the highest tiered Pokémon up until Generation 7. Comes early, has a good nature and IVS, does not need support, learns good attacks, has favorable type matchups right away and until the end and gains tons of bonus experience to keep overleved at all times. If anything, we may need a tier beyond S-tier because its performance is way beyond Mudsdale. It naturally learns Endeavor which if coupled with the free Focus Sash later on means you can Endeavor Ultra-Necrozma, get your Unburden speed boost and then KO it hilariously easy.

Mudsdale: Stamina allows it to stall pretty much every physical attacker which doesn’t hit for super effective damage and the ground type is generally very useful in Alola. The early 95 BP move certainly helps as well. The only downside is the speed, but since lots of your enemies are either frail or also very slow, the issue isn’t as relevant as it would be in previous titles. The Quick Claw I got early on helped it more than any other item did. Random priority was appreciated and happened a lot more than I anticipated. It learns all the moves it wants by itself with the only exception being Rock Slide which you get pretty soon after catching it anyways. If you every need to heal, you likely got so many Stamina boosts that you don't need to heal every again during the same battle. Its S-tier status is unquestionable.

Primarina: The lack of early Scald compared to the original Sun and Moon was a very big minus since its water type is the only relevant one until very late into the game after you get Moonblast and your secondary typing. Overall, its first two stages perform average with the only major event being able to beat Kiawe with Z-Water Pledge easily. Although I required the Soothe Bell from Route 3 to reach the happiness and a detour to be able to get the move. I’m not quite sure if it ended up being worth it instead of just using Bubble Beam. Until fully evolved, its only benefit to me was it being a somewhat bulky water type, nothing more. The good experience group at least meant that it kept along with the average level of my team, even though I rarely used. It suddenly turned really good once it fully evolved. It attains a quite wide special moveset, one that is good enough to make it a suitable user for Expert Belt outside of boss battles. When fully evolved, it did two-hit pretty much anything and took hits pretty well so healing was very manageable and not excessive at all. The extra-strong Z-move is a nice plus. It feels more like a B-tier to me as the first two stages were too much of a letdown.

Venusaur: The scan feature makes is very easy to find fast and it’s as early as Route 2. It felt like a better version of Primarina early because Grassy Terrain enabled it to heal and boost itself right away. While I eventually dropped Grassy Terrain I kept Sleep Powder all until the end because it remained a useful asset for pretty much all neutral matchups. It paired especially well with Giga Drain which can be picked up right after your first Mantine Surf and is an absolute must for it to remain relevant. It’s surprisingly good speed for being a bulky Pokémon coupled with Giga Drain and Sleep really made it a fun and very consistent pick in the end. While it takes a while to get access to Venoshock and later Sludge Bomb, the coverage wasn’t actually as important as I initially assumed. A very fun gimmick was the ability to pick up Nature Power on Route 5 and equip the Normalium-Z in order to patch up its type coverage with moves depending on the environment which can also be turned into a variety of Z-Moves. This means you can use a 175 BP Bloom Doom using Grassy Terrain or in any grassy environments (pretty much all routes) before you even attain the grass crystal. I didn’t always take advantage of this, only for a couple super effective grass, normal, rock, water and ground Z-Moves but it may be good enough of a gimmick to be further investigated. The early final evolution was appreciated as well and I definitely think it should be considered an average entry in the A-tier as I didn’t have any problems or unexpected KO’s with it at all.

Alolan Marowak: I played Ultra Moon so I was only able to catch a Cubone, steal Kiawe’s Thick Club and use one that way. The Cubone phase was kind of average, it required lots of healing but STAB Bonemerang helped it a lot. The lack of a ghost STAB until the Pokémon League using the Move Relearner was a pretty huge letdown because its fully evolved typing is kind of good offensively but very poor defensively. You barely get any benefit from your ghost typing as the AI isn't as stupid as to try to spam normal moves on you. You absolutely need to learn Fire Punch via Tutor to get a strong fire STAB because Flare Blitz comes late and is unviable as Marowak cannot afford to sacrifice its own HP with its bad bulk and speed. In the end, Marowak was the least used member of my team by far because it may have had the power to one-shot a lot of enemies, but it had trouble switching in when it counts and was fainted a lot due to its poor HP and very low speed, even for Alolan standards. I rarely required fire coverage as well. Mine had Cursed Body, but I would strongly advice everyone to consider hunting for one that gets Lighting Rod later if you can as an electric immunity would have been very useful for quite a few matchups and free switch-ins. Cursed Body never helped me at all. I’d rather put it in low B-tier. A-tier feels very unjustified because it may be good with some speed setup (X-Speed or one or two Flame Charges), but you really don’t want to set up on every other fight, especially on games as slow as USUM. I cannot speak for the totem variant, but I highly doubt it is S-tier material and have my doubts about that one even being A-tier as well.

Magnezone: Its only downsides are that it remains Magnemite for too long and has to wait for its high BP attacks. It’s typing comes in handy offensively and especially defensively literally everywhere. It takes a while to learn high BP attacks, so upgrading Thunder Shock to Shockwave and adding Signal Beam to not only resist but also counter psychic types using the Beach Tutor felt very necessary. Mine evolved right before the Power Plant, so I skipped straight to Magnezone when I arrived there. It ended up making great use of the free Choice Specs I got at the Tapu Village later and kept that item until the very end as resisting attacks and spamming its STAB moves worked against most opponents, strategies beyond that seemed very unnecessary. The sheer amount of enemies that lack any good coverage moves to be able to damage Magnezone was very surprising. Its current spot in the A-tier feels very justified in the end.

First off, great post

I will skip Hawlucha, Mudbray, and Magnemite, since those just agree with the consensus and I think I've heard more than enough about them

re: Popplio, the first two stages aren't the best, I agree, though I can't really say they are 100% bad. Brionne can beat Totem Marowak with Hydro Vortex in rain. And yeah, it needs rain, but that's true for pretty much every Water-type not called Araquanid, Wishiwashi, or Pelipper (ok, Pelipper needs rain, but it has Drizzle for that, so...). And even then, some of them aren't winning here anyways (e.g. Barboach, Finneon, Goldeen, etc.). Olivia #1 isn't a too bad matchup either; you aren't sweeping, but you can take out Anorith and Lycanroc. Mine also managed to put in some work against Hala with Work Up and Echoed Voice, though it can't sweep there.

The best thing about the line is perhaps the Primarina stage which hits like a truck. In terms of matchups, I managed to beat Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Guzma, Nanu, Ribombee, Hapu, and potentially Kommo-o, while having great matchups against Olivia #2 and Molayne. Not every of them is a simple "click X to win", but Primarina can get past many matchups, even if they aren't necessarily in its favor, which is why I settled with A-tier. I can see the arguments for B-tier and I am ready to drop it to B if more people come in support of that, but for now, I'd rather keep it in A-tier, honestly.

re: Bulbasaur, I guess A is fine, though from what I've experienced, it tends to rely quite a bit on sleep. Its first matchups aren't great and Araquanid is a win if you get lucky enough with a sleep. It does sweep Olivia #1 and I managed to beat Mimikyu with it (albeit I needed to heal it once and I basically couldn't afford a Shadow Claw crit). I still have the end of Ula'Ula and Poni Island to complete before coming up with a final rank for Bulbasaur, but for now, it could go in either B or A.

re: Cubone and the Totem Marowak, I can see both dropping by one tier, as the availability is a boon to the Totem variant when it comes to justifying S-tier. However, what I personally disagree with is for the Totem to be in the same rank as the normal one. The Totem Marowak has a bunch of advantages that are enough for a tier above the normal one. Those are:

1) three perfect IVs. Totem Pokemon all have three perfect IVs at worst in three random stats. You can do quite a lot with HP / Atk / Spe being the recipients, though only Attack and Speed are crucially important.

2) join level and similar. Cubone comes as low as level 16, so it has to be babied for a bit to get it on par with your team (which will typically be near 25 by the time you reach Marowak). The Totem variant comes at level 25, so it's already on par with your team or even outlevels it, depending on how you play / your team. Finally, level 25 allows it to get Shadow Bone before the relearner, thus it has a much better movepool. Also, coming already evolved means you have a guaranteed counter to Lurantis, wheres Cubone may not be able to evolve for Lurantis, as level 28 is a bit far from what you will typically get (though not impossible, may wanna pop a Rare Candy if you fail to evolve it, though)

3) Rock Head. The Totem variant always has Rock Head, allowing you to spam Flare Blitz to your heart's content. Couple it with a perfect Attack IV and you will notice a significant boost in damage output from the normal Alolan Marowak, assuming that you are using Fire Punch over Flare Blitz due to recoil.

The normal Alolan Marowak, on the other hand, has only the following as advantages:

1) Lightning Rod. This improves the Togedemaru matchup, as it blocks Zing Zap. Realistically, though, you aren't killing it with one Bonemerang anyways, so the Totem one can put in work anyways. LRod also means that Molayne's Klefki becomes a set up fodder and can't paralyze you with TWav, though the Totem one can just spam Flame Charge on Metagross and then Bonemerang / Flare Blitz the rest.

2) not requiring 40 stickers. Personally, I'd argue the stickers aren't even a flaw on the first place, because getting 40 isn't that difficult to me, though for others, it may be.

(it also comes for the Marowak matchup, but the only reasonable contribution it provides here is to steal the Thick Club for itself with Thief)

I don't think it needing Flame Charge and Fire Punch is necessarily a bad thing. Flame Charge at the very least deals damage while setting up, so it amounts to some form of progress. Beach tutors are fairly afforadble, as BP is easy to grind and by the time you will be using Marowak with Fire Punch, you can just fly to the beach with Charizard.

tl;dr I am fine with dropping both one tier below, but I am not going to merge them into one. However, I'd like first to finish my run with my own Cubone before I do that

===

update to my run: got past Mimikyu last time I played. Venusaur beat Mimikyu with one healing, Hariyama and Marowak beat Togedemaru. Murkrow and Raticate have started to fall off and I have yet to gather data on Bruxish

===

independent from any of the above, I am thinking of dropping Fletchling to C. It requires tons of set up to win some fights and it doesn't look as great as I remember it to be from reading the logs I have on it. I may also raise Diglett to B. It sucks a bit early on, but it becomes great once you get past the Akala Totems, being good for the Olivia fights, Molayne, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Ribombee, and having a good amount of use against Kahili, though I may not act on it.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

Double post, but I am dealing with a personal crisis and I am not taking it well. I may be inactive for a bit (say, a week or two, can't guarantee), though may be still "around". If you want to make a nomination or post logs, feel free to, just don't expect immediate response till I get better

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Okay so I'm done for my run save for Hau (who I deem inconsequential since 90% of things are forced to 1v1 in that fight and I don't think any of my members can sweep). TIme for my thoughts on the bird.

Oricorio, goodness gracious. This mon is undeniably S tier. I will admit I had plenty of doubts about it before using it. 98 Special Attack and 93 Speed and 75 / 70 / 70 bulk may not seem like much, but despite what its only modest stats will have you think, it's actually devastatingly capable, and when you remember that the ultimate broken Hawlucha only has base 92 Attack, it doesn't seem that far-fetched. This is the result of a few notable qualities:

1) Pom-Pom's amazing Electric / Flying defensive and offensive typing: Pom-Pom Oricorio packs resistances to Grass, Flying, Fighting, Bug, and Steel, alongside a Ground immunity and an immunity to paralysis as a nice bonus. All of these are key at certain points in the game. Ice is uncommon but a Rock weakness is really only relevant against Olivia (who is a no-go both rounds).

2) Early power spike and moveset: You get the best form of this bird on the first island, and the heightened stats compared to everything else let it dominate early. The 45 catch rate that early is a huge pain but this game showers you with Poke Balls and you can get 10 Ultra Balls for it by getting 10 species in Hau'oli City so it's not insurmountable. From a measly one to three levels from capture (you get it from level 10-12 at a 20% encounter rate) you get Air Cutter, which decimates everything on Melemele including Hala.

What Oricorio is ALSO relevant for is the Z-Trainer on Route 3: Oricorio easily roundhouses the Butterfree if you have Air Cutter, letting you access Roost early. That means that before you leave the first island you have an amazingly competent moveset of Air Cutter / Work Up / Roost / filler that you can mix and match whenever. And you get Supersonic Skystrike like two minutes later. This means you have a 120 BP Flying STAB Z-Move at your beck and call. Before you leave the first island if you take a small detour. Yeah.

Now let's check out this amazing moveset I've been hyping up, shall we?

Almost every single one of those moves has incredible utility. Baton Pass lets you pass Work Up, Calm Mind, or Agility to your teammates if you want. Feather Dance is incredible for physically-based Totems. Even Z-Teeter Dance can raise Special Attack by one stage and confuse in the samr turn. Captivate, while mega niche, could see some use if you get an Oricorio of the appropriate gender. Z-Mirror Move can give you +2 Attack AND an attack in one turn. Hurricane is good for a strong Z-Move hit on the bulky foes not weak to STAB.

3) Good TM moves and no tutor reliance, Red and Yellow Nectar utility: Work Up, Roost (Route 3), Calm Mind (Seafolk Village, $10,000), Taunt (Route 13 from a Skull Grunt), U-Turn (Malie City, $10,000, breaks Mimikyu's Disguise easily and guarantees a safe switch-in) are all pretty nice to have and easy to obtain. Unlike a lot of other top tiers you don't really need to Mantine Surf to fully equip Oricorio. Icy Wind and Tailwind from the Ula'ula Beach tutor (12 BP and 8 BP respectively) are decent but pretty superfluous: I didn't bother with either.

-Yellow Nectar is gotten from Melemele Meadow but only at night, while Pink Nectar for Pa'u Style is gotten during the day at Royal Avenue, but that's okay because Pa'u style can go straight to the garbage can.
-Red Nectar for Baile Style is gotten in Ula'ula Meadow regardless of time, thankfully, and that's the one you want, though even without changing form Oricorio is still an easy S (one example for Molayne: Pom-Pom gets immunity to Klefki's Thunder Wave while Baile gets super-effective STAB.
-Purple Nectar for Sensu Style is postgame in Poni Meadow and thus irrelevant.

4) Flying Z-Move craps on the first two islands, Air Slash, Revelation Dance, and support options keep it relevant to credits: Air Slash at 36 and Revelation Dance at 40 come at the perfect times for Oricorio to get a nice boost in power, though it sucks you can't Z-move with your Nectar type off Revelation Dance. Both Togedemaru and Mimikyu dislike Feather Dance, Guzma dies, Kommo-o gets rocked by Z-Hurricane, Ribombee hilariously gives you Quiver Dance via Dancer letting you OHKO, and against everyone at the League save Olivia and Hau Oricorio can sweep with minimal preparation.

As for logs, I didn't do all that many early on since Oricorio destroys both Totem Araquanid and Lurantis (I think Wak is a little iffy but you still can Feather Dance / Z-Move there so eh).

Oricorio Logs

Hala (17): Sharp Beak. Work Up to +1, Air Cutter and OHKO everything. Extremely easy.

Olivia 1 (29): Flynium Z. Anorith (who is faster) fails to 2HKO you with Smack Down if you go Feather Dance turn 1, letting you debuff it completely as you Roost. Work Up to +3 then OHKO Anorith with Air Cutter, Roost on Lileep then 2HKO with Air Cutter. Lycanroc outspeeds and finishes you off.

Togedemaru I don't have a log for but I'm 90% sure you get outspeed but can Feather Dance it at least once. Guzma's first two fights are cake, you Agility in the last fight to rip through everybody but Vikavolt (who is taken to 1/3 by a Z-Move).

Mimikyu (40): Flynium Z. You can Featherdance Mimikyu twice before dying (it outspeeds). SSSS + 2 Air Slashes seem like a range to 3HKO Mimikyu. Decent support.

Nanu (45): Flynium Z. Boost up to +3 while Roosting off Power Gem (2HKO after Fake Out), OHKO Sabelye with Air Slash after getting to about 3/4s HP from Roost. This lets you survive Alolan Persian’s Fake Out + Power Gem in red and OHKO back with +3 SSSS. Krokorok sadly outspeeds and finishes you off, but this is still a good performance, albeit one where you have to give up FeatherDance to do so.

Totem Kommo-o (55): Flynium Z. Dragon Claw is a 3HKO on you while Z-Hurricane knocks Kommo-o to red, where Revelation Dance finishes it off. Scizor revenges you as you are in red but this is basically a win.

Totem Ribombee: (57): Flynium Z.
Totem Ribombee used Quiver Dance!
Oricorio's Dancer activates - Oricorio used Quiver Dance!
Oricorio OHKOs back with +1 SSSS!

Hapu (57): Flynium Z. Feather Dance Golurk, then Calm Mind to +4 to OHKO it with Air Slash. Gastrodon is a range to OHKO with Air Slash but Flygon is OHKOed (their special attacks bounce off). Mudsdale is +4 SSSS fodder and is OHKOed. You’ll need to heal once but you should be okay.

Kahili (61): Flynium Z. Agility, then Revelation Dance everything. Mandibuzz (2HKO with Revelation Dance) comes out fourth and kills you after Braviary’s Crush Claw but Brave Bird leaves you alive in red. Everything else is OHKOed. Even if Mandibuzz kills you, this is still pretty good (only Toucannon is left aside from Mandibuzz).

Olivia (61): Flynium Z. No.

Acerola (62): Flynium Z. Baile form. Calm Mind once, then blast through everything with Revelation Dance. Froslass’s Confuse Ray sucks though. Palossand is handled with a Z-Hurricane. Driftblim is hilariously a pain in the butt thanks to Amnesia - it can’t kill you fast but Acerola’s Full Restores will outstall you. So you either go with Pom-Pom dodging Blizzard or Driftblim being annoying with fire bird.

Molayne (62): Lum Berry, Baile form. Disgustingly effective. Taunt Klefki so you get two turns of Calm Mind, then OHKO it (you need one boost to OHKO it FYI). Then eat a Magnezone Thunderbolt near red and kill it. Kill Metagross and Bisharp. You should be about 30-40 HP and be able to be picked off by Dugtrio’s Sucker Punch, so freely heal up and you win.

So in summary, amazing defensive typing (I assume you use Pom Pom 95% of the time), incredible support options, several buffing moves and Baton Pass, very self-sufficient, probably the best movepool you could ask for, comes early, no hunt for Ability as all have Dancer - just all around an incredibly adaptable Pokemon. Oricorio deserves S tier.

Other team members will come in the following post. Spoiler: none of them are S tier.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Oh gosh, Gyarados. Poor thing. Okay look. I know now you can get Magikarp at around level 20 in the Totem's Den similar to Wishiwashi. I know Dragon Dance is an incredible move with Flynium Z. But...I don't think this is S, I just don't. You need to get a high level one and you need to tutor Bounce on, so it's not exactly super easy starting off. It comes very close to S but I think there are a few big problems.

1) Slow growth rate. Pretty relevant, seeing as you can not have Dragon Dance at level 44 for both Guzma 2 and Nanu. It's generally a pain but I've beaten the topic to death in previous posts so let's move on.

2) Accuracy issues. Aqua Tail is 90% accuracy. Bounce is 85% accuracy. This means outside of Z-moves Gyarados is just unreliable enough that Dragon Dance sweeps aren't 100% guaranteed. This isn't an issue for Wishiwashi because it has Brine to fall back on. Now, we've justified Scraggy in BW as S with HJK but it only needs to land one kill to get power on the rest of its moves. It isn't forced to spam the 90% accurate move, unlike Gyarados.

3) The League repeatedly screws it over: From Dragon Dance on Gyarados is pretty good. But at the League it's very difficult to get a clean sweep with it aside from Acerola:

E4 Logs

Kahili (61): Waterium Z. Got to +3 Attack and +1 Speed while Braviary used Brave Bird (3HKO) and Scary Face. OHKOed Braviary with +3 Aqua Tail and Mandibuzz with Hydro Vortex. Toucannon was OHKOed but burned me with Beak Blast: amusingly this didn’t stop me from OHKOing Oricorio. Hawlucha outspeeds you at +1 and you die with it as the last mon. If you use a Lum Berry to circumvent Burn you leave Mandibuzz alive with +3 Aqua Tail and it kills you. Good.

Olivia (61): Waterium Z. With average luck you’re sweeping 2 here. DD twice (Armaldo uses Crush Claw over Rock Blast for some reason, and you MUST DD twice or Gigalith is left in red by +1 Aqua Tail) then OHKO 3 of em with Aqua Tail. Probopass will Thunder Wave you (strangely you still outspeed thanks to boosts) and then Power Gem kills you in two hits assuming the chip damage earlier. Maybe you can sweep but I didn’t (got paralyzed twice). I tried giving Cheri Berry but then got a few attempts where Armaldo got the Defense drop with Crush Claw then damaged Gyarados too much with Rock Blast (you can BARELY live 3 hits, so I’m assuming you die to Pass anyway with average luck). Good.

Acerola (61): Waterium Z. Dragon Dance twice, Crunch to victory (Dhelmise is a roll). I even beat Palossand without the Z-Move by spamming Crunch (+2 Crunch takes it to red, +1 2HKOs it as I learned from Iron Defense). +2 Aqua Tail OHKOs Palossand anyway, no Z-Move necessary.

Molayne (63): Waterium Z. This team is pretty much tailor made to block Gyarados. Klefki would be bad enough, but other things like Metagross’s Clear Body (lives a +2 Crunch, 3HKOs you), Bisharp’s Defiant, and Magnezone being such a block solidify the fact you aren’t sweeping here. I was able to get to +1 on Dugtrio, OHKO it, then OHKO Bisharp with Hydro Vortex if that means anything to you.

Even when it takes off, it's more comparable to Magnezone in that yeah it's good, but not quite S tier good, not to mention the fact that it comes later than most S-tiers, albeit not by much (though this does little to hold back Totem Alolan Marowak, admittedly). Z-Bounce does sweep early Totems sure, but it just has too many cracks in the seams for me to confidently say S. A tier.

Wishiwashi: A tier with more of a case for S tier than Gyarados. Fast growth rate means you'll be 10 levels higher than opponents by the end, minimal TM reliance, no accuracy issues as you always have Brine / Scald, Z-Move nuke, incredible 1v1 capacity. The Speed sucks but it can do unexpected things like Scald then Hydro Vortex Ribombee in rain summoned by Pelipper to win, and setup rain then OHKO Togedemaru with Hydro Vortex. Incredibly reliable, just not much to say, though I'm perfectly fine if it stays A. The movement of Scald to Poni Island does little to actually hurt it in practice.

Litten: I'm sorry guys but this ain't it. Peaks at Lurantis but then is just relegated to mostly hitting neutrally from then on (Togedemaru's Defense boost means you Darkest Lariat there over Fire STAB) aside from Guzma 3 and Ribombee (sweeps). I never felt like it was dead weight per se, but it just didn't get the sweeps an A-tier consistently needs and felt very average. I think more people need to run with this again, it never really felt like it was a consistent offensive presence in the lategame, losing a matchup for every single one it was victorious in. It has a great movepool, but fails to take advantage of it effectively because it's sorta a jack-of-all-trades build. 115 Attack just lacks the oomph you need and Fire / Dark isn't a good offensive STAB combo. League is just 1v1 central or obscene setup on Molayne aside from Acerola. Overall, Litten just feels like more of a B than an A tier to me.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

ok so I should be back now, so I can address things

I will do a run with Drums's whole squad for confirmation and use some two other members. Oricorio, Litten, and Magikarp are most likely to change tiers, reading from the logs, but I'd like to gather some data myself. Regarding Wishiwashi, my test on it will act as the final decision for its rank, unless other people want to talk about it.

once I am done with my current run, I will also do something about Leafeon. Note that I am still recooperating, so tests will be going at a slightly slower speed than usual.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

double post:

I finally finished my run from a while ago. The reason I haven't updated too much is because my focus has been on FRLG, but I am planning on focusing for a bit here and get this done too.

Run consisted of Rattata / Makuhita / Bulbasaur / Murkrow / Cubone / Bruxish.

Rattata

This is definitely dropping from B-tier, but I think this could go all the way to D-tier. This is, simply put, a worse Delibird. Raticate cannot even OHKO Araquanid and Lurantis without using Leer or something similar, which makes Lurantis a bit unreliable. You are stuck with Hustle for the entire game and even Acerola is a shaky matchup due to that and it's not like it has good matchups elsewhere. So planning on dropping this to D-tier

Makuhita

For now, I won't be touching it and leave it at A-tier, though I am willing to drop it if someone calls for it. While Fluctuating sucks, Makuhita managed to perform well in numerous matchups, most notably: Normal Totem, Marowak, Lurantis, Olivia #1 and #2, Togedemaru, Kommo-o*, Molayne, and Olivia #2. If you can evolve it before fighting Araquanid (which Fluctuating makes feasible), you can win this fight as well. Nanu turned out to be better than I remember, but still requires healing if you get flinched. For now, I will play it safe and not touch it.

* - Z-CC into CC OHKOes while burned, though I think you may need Scizor to not go for Bullet Punch? I remember you could live as well anyways.

Bulbasaur

Honestly, I am a bit torn here. Venusaur is certainly effective in some matchups, but its performance is all over the place. It relies on sleep against the Melemele bosses, beats Araquanid and Olivia (if it doesn't get flinched against the latter), sweeps the second Guzma fight and Nanu, and can sweep Olivia. I personally feel like this might be better off in B-tier, as RonJenzy's unfinished run similrarly indicates an inconsistent performance, which I don't find acceptable for an A-tier.

Murkrow

Murkrow's performance is a bit shaky. It easily wins against Lurantis and Araquanid and I managed to win against Kommo-o with it. Haze support is useful against Togedemaru and (with Sash) Ultra Necrozma. Its E4 performance is a bit ehh, as it even fails to OHKO some of Acerola's Pokemon. Given that you are stuck as a Murkrow for the entire game, I am going to drop this to C-tier.

Cubone

Dropping this and the Totem variant by one tier each. Cubone performed worse than I remember; you are unlikely to evolve it for Lurantis. It can barely win against Guzma, so this is really IV dependent (you need Rock Slide to trigger Emergency Exit, which it does barely with 20 IVs in Attack) and needs Stone Edge for Ribombee to 2HKO it if you didn't teach Flare Blitz (which you don't want to because of recoil). You sweep Acerola and Molayne easily, the rest not so much, and has some use against Nanu. The Totem, as I've said, is much better than it, but I don't think it's better by two tiers; the Molayne matchup is worse due to no Lightning Rod and the Togedemaru matchup isn't free anymore, as you still fear Zing Zap flinches, though Rock Head Flare Blitz + guaranteed Fire for Lurantis helps it much more. So yeah, both are dropping.

Bruxish[/b

Dropping this all the way to E-tier. Bruxish is late, rare, and can come very underleveled. On top of this, it barely does anything in major fights. Nanu, Ribombee, and Guzma laugh at it, Kommo-o 1v1s it, and the E4 isn't particularly great for it, even with a type advantage. This is borderline F-tier, in all honesty, I just fail to imagine what you are doing with this. This is perhaps the biggest blunder ever done with preliminary tiering in IGTL history, given that a B-tier fell to E-tier

tl;dr

Bulbasaur is dropping to B-tier, but I may move it back to A if that receives more support
Cubone and Totem Marowak will drop by one tier
Makuhita is remaining in A-tier unless it gets support for a drop
Rattata is dropping to D-tier due to being a worse Delibird. If you want either of those back to C, post in support of that
Murkrow is dropping to C-tier.


I will do a run with Drums's squad, along with Zubat and Litwick to refresh my experience with them. Next post will *finally* address Leafeon and what to do with that thing, so stay tuned.
Bruxish is dropping to E-tier, though I felt like dropping it to F-tier at one point

 

[HydrogenHydreigon]

Hi! Newbie here. Saw this thread, thought it was interesting, then started a run with Grubbin / Zorua / Gastly (No Trade) / Wishiwashi / Stufful / Steenee. I just finished Akala Island, and here are my thoughts on the mons, feedback would be appreciated.
One thing to note is that I tried to keep my levels on par with the Totems/highest level mon of Kahuna rather than overleveling them, not sure if I should keep doing this, though.

Grubbin
Grubbin was really underwhelming. It was extremely frail, though that my have been due to me getting a -Sp. Def one, and it's damage output wasn't that impressive either. It's outsped and OHKOed by Gumshoos, and it can't tank resisted hits from Hala. Machop and Crabrawler both 2HKO with Revenge and Pursuit (without switching) respectively. Its only matchup against Hala where it can KO with being KOed first is Makuhita, and there it's a 4HKO at best with Silk Scart-boosted Vice Grip. And this is coming off of a +Attack nature. Its bulk becomes way better as a Charjabug, but it doesn't do that good against the Akala Totems/Kahuna either. Marowak and Olivia's team have a natural advantage against it, and for Araquanid it 3HKOs with itemless Acrobatics (would Flyium-Z have helped?). Araquanid 2HKOs us with Bubble. The only totem where it actually put in some work was Lurantis, and there it required excessive healing and support from Gastly and Stufful to KO. It's movepool is interesting though, with two STABs + Acrobatics and Crunch for coverage at Akala.

Zorua
Its fraility and no advantages against any Totems/Kahunas really hurt it. Even against Marowak-A it's 2HKOed by Flame Wheel while we 3HKO with Feint Attack. I found myself just putting it in the back of the party gaining levels from the Exp. Share most of the time. This game isn't kind to Dark types at all.

Gastly (No Trade)
Gastly was actually really fun to use. A nice support movepool with Hypnosis, Curse and Confuse Ray early in the game was really helpful and I got past a lot of the Totems/Kahunas with Curse + Sleep stall (Gumshoos, Hala's Crabrawler, Araquanid, Lurantis to an extent). However, it's frailer then Zorua, and if you want to get past the game quickly, it isn't the best option, as its only attacking moves it has until it's a Haunter are Lick, Night Shade, and Sucker Punch off its worse attack stat and no Poison STAB until Konikoni. I can't really comment on it as a Haunter though since it just evolved.

Steenee
I haven't had Steenee for long, but it's really disappointing for the Olivia battle (OHKOed by Anorith, 2HKOed by Lycanroc). It has a lower BST than Zorua, and is a pain to train up since it comes quite late.

Wishiwashi
Great stats in School forme, and if you don't want to train one until level 20 fish at Wela Volcano Park. It nearly sweeped the Fire trial, putting Totem Marowak in the red with Hydro Vortex and tanking a boosted Hex until Venoshock finished it off. It was good against Olivia, OHKOing Anorith and Lycanroc (w/ Hydro Vortex) but loses the 1v1 against Lileep. However, it's dead if it ever reverts to Solo Form and it's movepool doesn't have any quickly available non-STAB interesting options other than maybe Beat Up.

Stufful
Stufful comes kind of late (just before the Grass trial), so you might need to train it for it to catch up to the rest of your team, and it's mostly useless for Totem Lurantis (though it got my team past Lurantis by tanking a Solar Blade and getting off two Baby-Doll Eyes). While its movepool might not seem good at first, you can get Brick Break TM from Verdant Cavern and give it Rock Tomb (TM is at Wela Volcano Park) for coverage, letting it sweep Olivia. It's slow though and could be easily KOed by faster opponents.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Hi! Newbie here. Saw this thread, thought it was interesting, then started a run with Grubbin / Zorua / Gastly (No Trade) / Wishiwashi / Stufful / Steenee. I just finished Akala Island, and here are my thoughts on the mons, feedback would be appreciated.
One thing to note is that I tried to keep my levels on par with the Totems/highest level mon of Kahuna rather than overleveling them, not sure if I should keep doing this, though.

Grubbin
Grubbin was really underwhelming. It was extremely frail, though that my have been due to me getting a -Sp. Def one, and it's damage output wasn't that impressive either. It's outsped and OHKOed by Gumshoos, and it can't tank resisted hits from Hala. Machop and Crabrawler both 2HKO with Revenge and Pursuit (without switching) respectively. Its only matchup against Hala where it can KO with being KOed first is Makuhita, and there it's a 4HKO at best with Silk Scart-boosted Vice Grip. And this is coming off of a +Attack nature. Its bulk becomes way better as a Charjabug, but it doesn't do that good against the Akala Totems/Kahuna either. Marowak and Olivia's team have a natural advantage against it, and for Araquanid it 3HKOs with itemless Acrobatics (would Flyium-Z have helped?). Araquanid 2HKOs us with Bubble. The only totem where it actually put in some work was Lurantis, and there it required excessive healing and support from Gastly and Stufful to KO. It's movepool is interesting though, with two STABs + Acrobatics and Crunch for coverage at Akala.

Zorua
Its fraility and no advantages against any Totems/Kahunas really hurt it. Even against Marowak-A it's 2HKOed by Flame Wheel while we 3HKO with Feint Attack. I found myself just putting it in the back of the party gaining levels from the Exp. Share most of the time. This game isn't kind to Dark types at all.

Gastly (No Trade)
Gastly was actually really fun to use. A nice support movepool with Hypnosis, Curse and Confuse Ray early in the game was really helpful and I got past a lot of the Totems/Kahunas with Curse + Sleep stall (Gumshoos, Hala's Crabrawler, Araquanid, Lurantis to an extent). However, it's frailer then Zorua, and if you want to get past the game quickly, it isn't the best option, as its only attacking moves it has until it's a Haunter are Lick, Night Shade, and Sucker Punch off its worse attack stat and no Poison STAB until Konikoni. I can't really comment on it as a Haunter though since it just evolved.

Steenee
I haven't had Steenee for long, but it's really disappointing for the Olivia battle (OHKOed by Anorith, 2HKOed by Lycanroc). It has a lower BST than Zorua, and is a pain to train up since it comes quite late.

Wishiwashi
Great stats in School forme, and if you don't want to train one until level 20 fish at Wela Volcano Park. It nearly sweeped the Fire trial, putting Totem Marowak in the red with Hydro Vortex and tanking a boosted Hex until Venoshock finished it off. It was good against Olivia, OHKOing Anorith and Lycanroc (w/ Hydro Vortex) but loses the 1v1 against Lileep. However, it's dead if it ever reverts to Solo Form and it's movepool doesn't have any quickly available non-STAB interesting options other than maybe Beat Up.

Stufful
Stufful comes kind of late (just before the Grass trial), so you might need to train it for it to catch up to the rest of your team, and it's mostly useless for Totem Lurantis (though it got my team past Lurantis by tanking a Solar Blade and getting off two Baby-Doll Eyes). While its movepool might not seem good at first, you can get Brick Break TM from Verdant Cavern and give it Rock Tomb (TM is at Wela Volcano Park) for coverage, letting it sweep Olivia. It's slow though and could be easily KOed by faster opponents.

Great post!

It’s been ages since I’ve thought about Zorua (I’m not sure if I used it) but I definitely remember it being unviable on paper. The movepool is awful, everything hits it SE while it hits almost nothing SE, and by the time it gets good the game is pretty much over.

I think it’s a misconception this game makes Psychic and Dark types COMPLETELY unviable though. Sure they are resisted and hit SE a lot, but stuff like Alakazam still works pretty well in spite of this. I don’t think Zorua should be anywhere above C at absolute best, and could maybe even be a D mon? Forget where it is currently.

Hold out some hope for Steenee! The matchups aren’t the best but once evolved via Stomp, Tsareena is pretty capable. It won’t sweep much but it will at the very least pull its weight as it has great stats at least. I think it’s in D currently? If it can’t sweep a matchup, Trop Kick is a handy debuffing tool.

Yeah early Grubbin is pretty bad. Charjabug is meh but I definitely remember Vikavolt being consistently good.

Curious if you will think A or S on Wishiwashi.

Bewear last I checked is actually pretty great! Don’t forget to give it Ice and Thunder Punch on Ula’ula Beach.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

so I finished my run a few days ago, but didn't post about this because I was too lazy. I will also address some things per request as well

===
re: my run

I used Litten / Oricorio / Zubat (retest) / Litwick (retest) / Magikarp / Wishiwashi. I will hide them due to Wishiwashi and in case HydrogenHydreigon doesn't want to be influenced by my Wishiwashi (not the actual word) thoughts.

Litten

Litten isn't easy to tier due to its somewhat fluctuating performance (this should hint as to where I am going to place it). It doesn't have the best beginning, as it's not reliably good against any matchup until Lurantis. After this, though, it picks up quite a few good other matchups. Here's a breakdown of all the good matchups LItten has:

Lurantis - Z-Fire Fang + Work Up results in an easy victory

Togedemaru - Work Up + Z-Fire Punch OHKOes Togedemaru. You could try Fire Pledge here as well, but I managed just fine with Fire Punch

Guzma - has some difficulties with the first fight, but afterwards, Specs Flamethrower always sweeps. Fire Pledge might help against the first fight, but again, never tried it.

Nanu - this one can be a sweep. Basically, you Flame Charge on Sableye, Z-Sunny Day, then Flame Charge to KO Sableye since you will be in Blaze range. Then you outspeed and OHKO the rest with Flamethrower

Ribombee - Z-Flare Blitz into Flare Blitz KO Ribombee

Molayne - spam Specs Flamethrower. You are unlikely to sweep, but you take out 4/5 of his team.

Gumshoos and Hala are potential victories, but are unreliable and/or require healing items, thus they don't count positively towards Litten's performance

Ultimately, I think this warrants B-tier, as there is a significant amount of matchups that are bad for Litten. Also, I would suggest using Flamethrower Incineroar in most cases, while it may not seem appealing at first, the game's weakness to special attacks + Choice Specs make it a very effective way of dealing damage.

Zubat

Keeping this in B-tier, though admittedly it's pretty close to A-tier. The only reasons I am not putting it in A-tier are because its E4 performance is non-existant and because its damage output is pathethically low sometimes (see Lurantis). In terms of matchups:

Hala - you can get a KO or two, but you aren't sweeping

Araquanid - you have Flyinium Z at this point, you win with Golbat

Lurantis - you need two Bites and then Z-Wing Attack to KO Lurantis

Guzma - generally takes out everything but Vikavolt

Nanu - Leech Life 3HKOes Sableye, which goes for Fake Out, only for you to have Inner Focus. Persian, likewise, does the same, so it gets 3HKOed, but then gets KOed on the next turn with Z-Leech Life as it fails to threaten you whatsoever. Then you 2HKO Krokorok

Kommo-o - Haze away the boosts then OHKO with Z-Fly

Ribombee - read the above

In addition to the above, Crobat has Haze, which can be useful against other Totems that it sucks against. Again, I feel like this could feasibly be A-tier again, but I won't fight over this, unless someone else wants to suggest A-tier, in which case I may push it back there

Litwick

Definitely B-tier. Litwick doesn't seem too concerned about late evolution, as it manages to win some matchups just as a Litwick. In particular:

Hala - Crabrawler is your only issue here due to Pursuit and you can burn it. The rest cannot hit Litwick at all

Lurantis - Sunny Day + Z-Flame Burst

Togedemaru - the above, only worry about Zing Zap flinches (2HKO)

Guzma - bad unless you have a Chandelure for the third fight

Kommo-o - Psych Up then OHKO Kommo-o with Z-Psychic

Ultra Necrozma - Sash + Curse puts it on a timer

Ribombee - Specs Flamethrower is enough to win here

Hapu - kills most things with Energy Ball

Molayne - kills most things here, no sweep though

Acerola - kills most things

Kahili - gets a few kills

All in all, it's definitely useful despite the late evolution, so I will keep it in B-tier.

Oricorio

I will concur with S-tier. Matchups speak for themselves, honestly, but there's little reason not to use this beyond "Hawlucha exists to outclass it". It either wins fights or throws in a Feather Dance. Matchups:

Hala - Work Up then Air Cutter OHKOes everything

Araquanid - Work Up + Z-Air Cutter to OHKO

Marowak - can throw in a Feather Dance and make Marowak a lot easier for a teammate

Lurantis - read Araquanid

Togedemaru - read Marowak

Guzma - consistently sweeps here with no issues

Mimikyu - read Togedemaru

Kommo-o - Z-Hurricane into Air Slash KO Kommo-o, which 3HKOes with Dragon Claw if in Electric form. Scizor doesn't go for Bullet Punch

Ribombee - Dancer + Z-Hurricane is lol

Molayne - if Fire forme, you can kill most of the things here with Revelation Dance

Acerola - Fire forme kills most things here with Specs Revelation Dance

Kahili - Electric form crushes this fight

as you can see, quite a lot of fights. I think S-tier is fair and I will move it there

Magikarp

I will push this to A-tier, but I'd argue that Magikarp is very close to S-tier and I'd classify it as S-. The problems with Magikarp come if you get it underleveled, Slow growth and reliance on inaccurate moves (Bounce / Aqua Tail). There's also the E4 performance which could be better. With that said, it's definitely A-tier at worst, due to those matchups:

Marowak - Z-Splash then Bite 2HKOes Marowak, you seem to win in most cases

Lurantis - Z-Bounce

Olivia - beats 2/3 of her team

Guzma - consistently sweeps, especially once it gets DD, but you don't need it for the first two fights.

Mimikyu - Z-Splash, OHKO Banette, then put Mimikyu in red with Aqua Tail and KO it. You will need to heal at least once, though you can afford an Attack drop from Play Rough

Nanu - DD once on Sab and OHKO it with Aqua Tail. OHKO Persian with Hydro Vortex (it's still faster, but fails to kill with Power Gem) then kill Krokorok

Kommo-o - DD once then Z-Bounce to OHKO, you live one Thunder Punch

Ribombee - Z-Bounce puts it in red, so DD once and kill it

Olivia - Z-Splash then spam Aqua Tail, though use Bounce on Probopass first to avoid healing spam. It can barely make it through Probopass, though Cradily may KO it due to living one hit.

Wishiwashi

I think this should remain in A-tier and I am not sure if I am convinced of S-tier. Let's analyze pros and cons:

pros:

- Fast growth, combind with a somewhat early arrival (it comes after Araquanid, so you haven't missed on too much)

- incredible offensive and defensive stats, save for the poor HP and Speed.

- doesn't really rely on tutor moves, unless you are going for niche strats like Z-Iron Tail

cons:

- has quite the amount of bad matchups

- poor movepool, so it can be walled quite easily

I don't think it's not S-tier due to something specifically bad as much as it is that there isn't much that screams S-tier to me. Matchups:

Marowak - easy win here, just use Hydro Vortex then spam Water moves

Olivia - Rain Dance against Anorith and OHKO it with Water Pulse. Then OHKO Lileep with Z-Dive. At this point, you are in yellow. Lycanroc goes for Bite and if it doesn't flinch, you OHKO with Water Pulse

Togedemaru - Z-Water Pulse in rain OHKOes, while Zing Zap 3HKOes, so flinches are your only worry

Mimikyu - Z-Iron Tail OHKOes, but Banette burns you and Mimikyu 3HKOes.

Nanu - beats Sableye and Krokorok

Ribombee - Scald into Z-Aqua Tail in rain KOes

Hapu - didn't try it out, but it obviously dominates here

Elite Four - Specs Scald / Hydro Pump always gets a few KOs, but it never sweeps

as a whole, it doesn't dominate the entire game, so I would rather this stay in A-tier. WIth that said, it's still a great Pokemon, as lack of good matchups is about the only flaw I can pinpoint to it and it's generally really low-cost Pokemon due to not needing tutor moves and Fast growth rate.

===

One thing to note is that I tried to keep my levels on par with the Totems/highest level mon of Kahuna rather than overleveling them, not sure if I should keep doing this, though.

I won't chase people or persuade them to run in a specific way, but feel free to overlevel. I am assuming you are playing with Exp. Share on, it's normal to be a few levels above the boss in USUM. With that said, your results so far shouldn't be impacted by the way you played, as the "standard" I use would have resulted in around two levels higher, though that may affect your later matchups if you decide to keep this up. But as a whole, feel free to overlevel, I am assuming the player isn't putting restrictions like this on themselves due to the game's general difficulty.

re: Grubbin, no problems with it dropping if such conclusion is reached, I just need people to nominate it so I know that there is some agreement to that

re: Zorua, the reason why it's B-tier is that it can actually put in some work against boss fights if you get creative enough. For example, Zorua can beat Araquanid with Z-Bounce if it's disguised as a Bug-resistant Pokemon. It also can also do other things, so I will quote my post about it:

Zorua -> potentially B-tier (but not higher)
My estimates on Zorua didn't match what I actually experienced. Zorua managed to perform better in matchups that I thought were bad. In addition the UN matchup, Zorua can beat Araquanid by using Bounce then Z-Bounce while disguised as Bug-resistant Pokemon. It can fool Guzma's Golisopod and spam Fake Tears so Snarl can OHKO and always outspeeds and OHKOs Masquerain with Z-Bounce (even at -1). It can even copy Ribombee's stats with Psych Up and OHKO it with Z-Bounce (however, you need to disguise as a Poison-type or Steel-type and hope you aren't attacked in the first two turns). At the E4, it can sweep Molayne (you need to disguise as a Ghost-type or something that triggers Dugtrio's Sucker Punch and hope Klefki doesn't break Disguise) and Acerola and can contribute against Olivia #2. Against Hau, you can disguise as a Fighting-type, set up two NPs and then a Z-Sunny Day (for a Speed boost) and then spam Flamethrower (with other moves being used as needed).

All in all, Zorua definitely exceeded my expectations. I do not mind putting it in B-tier for now. However, I strongly object to anything higher; even if it's effective when disguised as the correct teammate, efficiency isn't only about speed; it's also about something being natural and I think expecting the player to constantly bring around Pokemon that are good Illusion partners is a bit too specific and complicated to warrant a higher tier. Not to mention that, even with that, Zorua is still bad in a lot of matchups, like Normal Totem, Hala, Lurantis, Marowak, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, and Kommo-o (can Psych Up there and Z-Bounce, but doesn't win). I think B is a fair compromise for now, but I'd appreciate if more people that have used it more thoroughly can share their experience with it.

personally, not only do I object to anything higher than B, but I also wouldn't be super opposed to C-tier. I think it can be either tier, so it depends a lot on what the majority wants. The reason why I am open to C-tier is that, while it can win a lot of matchups, you certainly need to get creative with it to achieve those, since, as it's been stated, Dark typing + fraility certainly don't help it. Do note that Zorua is probably one of the few Pokemon that can beat Ultra Necrozma without Roto Boosts.

re: Gastly, you pretty much pinpoint what it does for the period of the game you mention; Ghost / Poison is only useful for trolling Hala and it can pretty much contribute only by throwing Curses around. Per experience, this is how you are gonna keep on using it too. Also, to make it clear, Haunter and Gengar seem to have a similar performance, which is why I have them in the same tier right now.

re: Steenee, I personally fail to get the hype around it and I am glad other people doubt it right now. Trop Kick is about the only thing that makes me say that it's better than garbage like Paras and Fomantis, but you aren't really winning most fights with it (even type advantageous ones like Olivia aren't ideal for it).

re: Stufful, that would be interesting to see. Per experience, if it's got an advantage in a matchup, it capitalizes on that heavily. Hell, Fluffy makes it somewhat usable against Kahili iirc, even if it's not the best to use there.

===

re: Leafeon, I am going to push it to C-tier, as there are many things in C-tier that have somewhat similar problems to it (mainly them not being super consistent, but not really bad either), but it's not going anywhere higher and I may push it down to D-tier again if more people decide to disagree with C-tier. I have also identified a few Pokemon that were placed in their tiers inconsistently and will push them to a better tier at a later point.

Once I get more thoughts on Rowlet, Grubbin, Beldum/Honedge, Vulpix, Sandshrew, and Golem, I will start packing the list for write-ups.

 

[Magcargo]

I'm not done w/ my current run of Ultra Moon just yet, but Shellos in E seems WAY too harsh. You get an unevolved Shellos via trade in Seafolk Village, which not only gets boosted EXP, but also has a perfect nature (Quiet). You can also keep it unevolved for two levels to get Recover a bit early. It is useless as a Shellos, but it gains EXP fast so that phase doesn't last too long. I'll provide logs it vs major boss fights as I finish the game.

Logs

Ultra Recon Squad (Fight 4)
- In my match, the fight was kinda a stalemate (Moveset is Toxic, Sludge Bomb, Muddy Water, Recover)
- They use a X Special Defense in my initial battle and normal poisoned me so Muddy Water wasn't doing too much damage, but the didn't really do any damage in return
- In the end, it did take a while but Gastrodon was able to win
- Wish I could retry this fight using Bulldoze, but I f'd up and saved, so can't really do that

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I'm not done w/ my current run of Ultra Moon just yet, but Shellos in E seems WAY too harsh. You get an unevolved Shellos via trade in Seafolk Village, which not only gets boosted EXP, but also has a perfect nature (Quiet). You can also keep it unevolved for two levels to get Recover a bit early. It is useless as a Shellos, but it gains EXP fast so that phase doesn't last too long. I'll provide logs it vs major boss fights as I finish the game.

Maybe E is indeed a little harsh because Trade EXP and Quiet are pretty nice, but at the same time Shellos has some really, really big issues I don’t think even those fix.

-Seafolk Village availability
You know how anything in HGSS post-Radio Tower is basically bottom tier? Yeah it’s very similar here. Aether Paradise has a lot of trainers, and a lot of things want to be around for Guzma 2 and Nanu as well. You miss 3 major battles if you come after them in such a short amount of game time, in addition to the first three islands. Even some of the better Pokémon statwise like Granbull near to Play Rough aren’t worth using because you only have a few fights left.

-All of the last few fights are exceptionally difficult to sweep barring Hapu
Hapu is weakness food for most Waters because you have Scald and she’s pretty slow, but everything else is overtuned like crazy. Ribombee basically invalidates any Special Attacker with ho-hum power like Gastrodon. Ultra Necrozma speaks for itself (though I could maybe see Gastrodon surviving and getting a Toxic off, it’s debatable and most things do this with Focus Sash anyway) Kommo-o generally wins neutral matchups (Blizzard isn’t gonna do much when non-STAB) and the League is obnoxious in general for slow mons.

-Gastrodon is slow. REALLY slow.
It’s not gonna be killing more than one or two mons against stuff it doesn’t hit super-effectively. I can see you maybe taking a couple mons in the E4, but Olivia will definitely be worse than it looks, because Gigalith’s Sand Stream gives every member a 50% Special Defense buff and she has good IVs on top of that AND there is also no way in heck Gastrodon would ever beat Cradily.

So you’ve got a slow Water / Ground type who hits way softer than most Waters like Gyarados / Primarina (83/92 offenses) its best Ground STAB is 65 BP Mud Bomb, doesn’t have much that gives it a proper niche (it’s too slow for Recover), and comes on the final island with only one matchup it’s semi-decent in. I’d love to see your logs with it as I love being surprised by a mon being great in-game when it looks like it’s not very good (I do like Audino and Basculin after all), but as it stands right now, yeah Shellos is pretty bottom tier.

 

[Magcargo]

Maybe E is indeed a little harsh because Trade EXP and Quiet are pretty nice, but at the same time Shellos has some really, really big issues I don’t think even those fix.

-Seafolk Village availability
You know how anything in HGSS post-Radio Tower is basically bottom tier? Yeah it’s very similar here. Aether Paradise has a lot of trainers, and a lot of things want to be around for Guzma 2 and Nanu as well. You miss 3 major battles if you come after them in such a short amount of game time, in addition to the first three islands. Even some of the better Pokémon statwise like Granbull near to Play Rough aren’t worth using because you only have a few fights left.

-All of the last few fights are exceptionally difficult to sweep barring Hapu
Hapu is weakness food for most Waters because you have Scald and she’s pretty slow, but everything else is overtuned like crazy. Ribombee basically invalidates any Special Attacker with ho-hum power like Gastrodon. Ultra Necrozma speaks for itself (though I could maybe see Gastrodon surviving and getting a Toxic off, it’s debatable and most things do this with Focus Sash anyway) Kommo-o generally wins neutral matchups (Blizzard isn’t gonna do much when non-STAB) and the League is obnoxious in general for slow mons.

-Gastrodon is slow. REALLY slow.
It’s not gonna be killing more than one or two mons against stuff it doesn’t hit super-effectively. I can see you maybe taking a couple mons in the E4, but Olivia will definitely be worse than it looks, because Gigalith’s Sand Stream gives every member a 50% Special Defense buff and she has good IVs on top of that AND there is also no way in heck Gastrodon would ever beat Cradily.

So you’ve got a slow Water / Ground type who hits way softer than most Waters like Gyarados / Primarina (83/92 offenses) its best Ground STAB is 65 BP Mud Bomb, doesn’t have much that gives it a proper niche (it’s too slow for Recover), and comes on the final island with only one matchup it’s semi-decent in. I’d love to see your logs with it as I love being surprised by a mon being great in-game when it looks like it’s not very good (I do like Audino and Basculin after all), but as it stands right now, yeah Shellos is pretty bottom tier.

All valid points, though I'd like to point out that Mud Bomb isn't even a feasible STAB option till the final fights of the game since Shellos is far past the level of learning it. And even then, I think Bulldoze is way more useful since it at least guarantees speed drops and can be swapped out any time if you don't need it anymore.

Coming late is a hindrance, though I'd argue its not quite as bad as the post radio tower Pokemon in HGSS since Shellos isn't as laughably underleveled as some of those Pokemon were. Additionally, there is a bit more content left (two trials + Ultra Necrozma as opposed to one gym leader + Ho-oh).

That being said, I'll give more input once I actually face the major boss fights and see how the slug fairs against them. So far, against the in-game trainers I've been fighting, its been fairing much better that some of the E-Rank mons I used in other runs like Jangmo-o and Mienfoo, and is performing about as well / a little better than Frillish after its baby phase (I was using this mon earlier, but decided to drop it since the weakness overlap w/ Decidueye stings).

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

for the final fights, Mud Bomb > Bulldoze definitely, Mud Bomb is coming off its better Special Attack and you can equip it with Choice Specs for even more damage. Combine it with the game's general weakness to special attacks, it's going to net you a few KOs more than Bulldoze would, especially against Molayne and Olivia where it can fair well (though I am psure Olivia requires healing)

anyways, my biggest issue, as Drums said, is mostly the availability and low amount of great matchups, which is why I just went with E-tier, since the traded exp didn't seem that attractive to me when most of the end-game bosses stomp you anyways, but I'd be curious to see if you can make it work better than I did (my strategy was just Scald for Hapu and Specs Mud Bomb / Scald for Molayne / Olivia)

(if you have thoughts about Rowlet, more specifically C vs B-tier, you could maybe share those too if you feel like you have enough data with it. Mentioning this since you said you dropped Frillish due to it, so I assume you have been using it).

 

[Magcargo]

(if you have thoughts about Rowlet, more specifically C vs B-tier, you could maybe share those too if you feel like you have enough data with it. Mentioning this since you said you dropped Frillish due to it, so I assume you have been using it).

Hmm, that's a tough one. It is a bit weird to rank Rowlett. For me, its struggled against nearly every Totem and boss battle, but on the flipside, was one of the best at clearing routes due to Giga Drain and Roost. I also critically did not make use of Super Sonic Strike early on since I didn't want to use Z-Moves initially, which negatively affected its performance in some of the earlier totem battles.

Some Logs from what I remember (I started this run a while ago, so some things might be a bit fuzzy)

Log

Totem Raticate:
Didn't use it, Hawlucha OHKO'd it.

Hala
It did OK, but Peck only 2HKO'd the Machop and Makuhita. I believe I used Hawlucha for the Crabrawler.

Aranquanid
Aurora Beam screwed me over. It didn't OHKO, but Peck was roughly a 3HKO in return. I don't think Super Sonic Skystrike would have KO'd had I used it.

Marowak
Didn't use it.

Lurtantis
Pretty good Match-up. You get Pluck around this time, and its best move, X-Scissor, only did around 40%. Pluck did around 66 percent to it, which unfortunately is also around the amount it heals in Sun. In the end, Dartrix lost due to a crit, however, had I made use of Z-Moves, I think this fight would've gone much more smoothly.

Olivia
I think I used it to outspeed and KO Lycanroc with Giga Drain after Flaffy paralyzed it with Thunder Wave (for some reason it didn't use its Z-Move)

Togedemaru
Didin't use it.

Guzma 1
(Evolved into Decidueye)
Against the Golisopod, you can cheese it by spamming Roost 5 times to deplete Sucker Punch's PP. Since My Decidueye was a Lonely nature, it was a range on whether Sucker Punch would OHKO. Against the Masquerain though, you'll need to use something else.

Mimikyu
Literally the only reason Decidueye was able to do anything is because of Pokemon Refresh. I was able to survive the Shadow Claw and KO Mimikyu with Sinister Shadow Raid. Considering that it would have been OHKO'd other

Guzma 2
You'll need to waste Sucker Punch PP with Roost / your own Sucker Punch and you are good against the Golisopod. The other two mons are bad match-ups though.

Nanu:
Didn't use it.

Faba:
You absolutely dominate him with Spirit Shackle.

Guzma 3:
You can use the Sucker Punch PP depletion trick against Golisopod (its even easier now since you have the Toxic TM). Vikavolt can be KO'd w/ Sinister Shadow Raid + Spirit Shackle. Other two are bad match-ups

Lusamine:
Didn't use it.

Overall, Rowlet hasn't had the best match-ups against the major bosses. However, Giga Drain, Roost, and its decent speed tier make a lot of the normal trainer fights a breeze. I've been doing a lot of switch training in this run, and Decidueye is one of the best mons to go to since its main STAB attack is healing back whatever health it lost while also dealing good damage. Compared to a mon like Mareep (which I was using earlier in this run before dropping it for a Vikavolt I found in Blush Mountain) and I feel that Decidueye is a significantly better mon, even though I've made use of Mareep more in Boss Fights. Yeah, Mareep has some decent utility moves like T-Wave and Electroweb as well as an OK coverage move in Signal Beam, but its low speed makes it a liability to use in anything other than Boss Fights since it'll get whittled down extremely fast due to its low speed and lack of resistances. Right now, I'm leaning towards B for Decidueye.

EDIT:
Well in an unexpected plot twist...

Hide

Guess I can't give logs for Gastrodon now....

IDK how this even happens? For some reason I was getting the message "failed to save game" near Poni Canyon :(

 

[AriadosPerson]

I didn't keep logs for Gastrodon because I assumed no one cared but it's basically slower Whiscash, which I also did not think think highly of but at least shows up much earlier. With Specs Gastrodon can hit harder with Water moves, but for endgame you really want good Ground moves, and Specs just brings Mud Bomb up to Earthquake level. It's also slower than a ton of things (coming late means it has few EVs), so if it's not Recovering it's guzzling Potions. It wins some fights 1v1 and can take out a couple of Elite Four Pokémon but it's underwhelming for an endgame acquisition and isn't fun or efficient to use. I figured it was E because two tiers below Whiscash seems right and I don't know how it could be worse without being a joke-tier mon, which would be F.

 

[Magcargo]

I didn't keep logs for Gastrodon because I assumed no one cared but it's basically slower Whiscash, which I also did not think think highly of but at least shows up much earlier. With Specs Gastrodon can hit harder with Water moves, but for endgame you really want good Ground moves, and Specs just brings Mud Bomb up to Earthquake level. It's also slower than a ton of things (coming late means it has few EVs), so if it's not Recovering it's guzzling Potions. It wins some fights 1v1 and can take out a couple of Elite Four Pokémon but it's underwhelming for an endgame acquisition and isn't fun or efficient to use. I figured it was E because two tiers below Whiscash seems right and I don't know how it could be worse without being a joke-tier mon, which would be F.

Fair enough. I was thinking D-Tier would be better for it since felt about as good as Jellicent (trade earlier availibility for significantly shorter babying phase, boosted EXP, and arguably better typing), but eh if others have used it and see it as an E-Tier mon, that's fine. TBF, I didn't make use of tech on Jellicent like Wisp / Toxic + Hex or Specs before dropping it, so it very well be a better choice for end-game fights and during the Ula'Ula section where its availible over Shellos.

I'll probably just reset my save file now since it seems like this issue w/ corrupted data can't be resolved (again how tf does this happen?).
Wanna use Crabrawler, Wishiwashi, and Litwick for this run. Are there any mons anyone wants me to test?

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

Wanna use Crabrawler, Wishiwashi, and Litwick for this run. Are there any mons anyone wants me to test?

Idek if you have access to trades or no, but Golem would be great if you do. Other things that could maybe see some more testing include Honedge and Vulpix or Sandshrew (doesn't matter which one, I am most likely placing them in the same tier once one gets consensus, unless people have objections). Diglett could also see more testing. If you don't feel like using any of those, feel free to check out what has a star in C-tier or above and select whatever looks cool to you, I just updated it to better reflect what I think could maybe see more opinions (and changed what the stars mean for clarity)

 

[Magcargo]

Idek if you have access to trades or no, but Golem would be great if you do. Other things that could maybe see some more testing include Honedge and Vulpix or Sandshrew (doesn't matter which one, I am most likely placing them in the same tier once one gets consensus, unless people have objections). Diglett could also see more testing. If you don't feel like using any of those, feel free to check out what has a star in C-tier or above and select whatever looks cool to you, I just updated it to better reflect what I think could maybe see more opinions (and changed what the stars mean for clarity)

I actually did use Alolan Sandshrew in the playthrough earlier and it did OK. It required a bit of babying as a Sandshrew since its not too strong or bulky, but it does start out w/ a nice dual STAB combo of Iron Head and Ice Punch from tutors. Ice Punch's 10% freeze chance is actually pretty nice whenever it does happen, which is why I kept it. It also evolves around Po town which is awesome since it also gets Swords Dance though I didn't make use of it too much since STAB Ice Punch and Iron Head 2HKO'd most opponents anyways (nature was Brave TBF). Against most in-game trainers, its typing is pretty good, it resist most attacks and its fairly bulky, so it doesn't take too much damage in the middle of routes or vs generic team skull trainers despite its low speed. Its got nice coverage in Leech Life and Brick Break too.

Sandshrew did ok against some of the bosses. Unfortunately, it didn't evolve before Totem Mimikyu, but it was able to take one attack (w/o Eviolite) and shave off a decent amount of its health w/ Iron Head. It was nice against Guzma's Masquerain, but folds to his Pinsir. It did really well against Lusamine (for some reason Lopunny didn't use Fire Punch) though Bewear finished it off. I think either C or D tier works for it ,leaning a bit more to C since its MU against bosses hasn't been too bad (though D is perfectly acceptable seeing as I didn't fight Totem Kommo-o or Hapu, which can definetly be hard match-ups).

Trading will be a bit hard to do on my own. I'll let you know if I end up doing it, since some of the trade mons (like Alakazam) seem like they'll be interesting to use.

Logs

Boss: Teacher Emily
Current team: (lvl 9) (lvl 9)
- Decided to use Grubbin as my "starter" and have had it do all the major battles
- Settled w/ a Careful nature since its using both physical and special attacks
- Don't know what IVs are, but the seem like trash based on showdown damage calculator
- This fight was difficult, Popplio just spams Water Gun, which was 3HKOing grubbin & 2HKOing Litten, both of which didn't do nearly enough back in return
Strategy to win:
- Equip Grubbin w/ oran berry,, use two Mud Slaps, switch to Litten, use Lick and hope for a paralysis + deal chip damage until Litten faints, then switch back to grubbin and hit it w/ Vice Grip / Mud Slap until it dies
Boss: Captain Ilima
Current team: (lvl 10) (lvl 8) (lvl 10)
- Caught abra w/ a Hasty nature. This actually isn't too bad since I might be able to make use of moves like Brick Break later on
- Beating Ilima is nearly impossible with Grubbin alone, Yungoos and Smeargle both deal too much damage.
Strategy to Win:
- Equip Quick Claw on Litten. Lead with Litten. Yungoos will use two Leers, letting you set up with Work Up twice. Then hit it with Ember, which will deal less than half of its HP. It'll hit you with tackle, which will deal a lot of damage, but won't KO, putting you in blaze range. Hit it with Ember again to KO it. He'll send out Smeargle next. I got lucky and Quick Claw activated, letting me hit it with a strong Ember before dying. Send out Grubbin to finish it off (Equip Oran Berry to be safe).

 

[HydrogenHydreigon]

Hi, so i'm almost done with my playthrough (only Elite Four left) and here are my thoughts on the mons I used.

Vikavolt (A -> B, maybe C)
Vikavolt has amazing Sp. Attack, decent bulk, and reliable recovery in Roost, but its low speed means it usually can't get off an attack or heal before it's KOed. It doesn't have many good matchups against bosses either, and even with Nanu it's KOed by accumulated chip damage. It relies on Signal Beam as its Bug STAB until the E4, and its only coverage moves are late-game. In my opinion it's definitely not A-tier material and I could even see it in C.

Zoroark (B -> C)
You can get creative with Illusion to defeat mons you couldn't otherwise, but Zoroark's bad matchups still outnumber its good ones, plus its best Special stab for essentially the whole main game is is the 55 BP Snarl, so it's forced to rely on the unreliable Foul Play as Dark STAB, not to mention it's quite frail. Being able to easily beat Ultra Necrozma is nice, but its negative aspects make me feel it's more of a C-tier mon.

Bewear (A -> no change)
Bewear performs well against Olivia, Togedemaru, Mimikyu and Nanu (the latter two with little support) but falls to Guzma, Ribombee and Kommo-O (I KOed it with hax tho). While it has a low speed, its bulk + Fluffy means it can tank a surprisingly many amount of hits and its movepool is pretty diverse, with STAB plus your choice of Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Iron Head, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide or Zen Headbutt, and even Payback could be considered due to Bewar's low speed. Plus Baby-Doll Eyes is great utility as soon as you get it. Overall it's quite a solid mon with its fair share of good and bad matchups and great stats and ability, so A tier seems right for it.

Wishiwashi (A -> no change)
Wishiwashi has great stats (barring HP and Speed) and has many great matchups against bosses, those being Marowak, most of Olivia and Nanu's team, Mimikyu (Corkscrew Crash from tutored Iron Tail, KO the Banette w/ something else first), Ribombee (Hydro Vortex in the rain Pelipper sets up) and Hapu (walled by Gastrodon though). However late-game its low speed and HP start catching up to it, and it struggles to break through mons it can't hit hard with STAB or coverage, which it doesn't have a lot of. Despite that it's still a solid mon, and I think more A-tier than S.

Tsareena (D -> C)
After leaving the horrible Steenee phase, Tsareena actually wasn't too bad. Trop Kick, Captivate and U-Turn were all great support and if you think Power Whip's has too high of a miss chance then go with Seed Bomb. However, all its coverage is inaccurate (Bounce/Zen Headbutt/High Jump Kick) and its only good matchup against bosses were Guzma's Golisopod and Hapu. I'm advocating for a raise here because even if it can't sweep, it can at least help the team overall through its utility moves and as a Tsareena its damage output wasn't bad at all.

Haunter (C -> no change)
Haunter can help a team get through many Totems through Curse/Destiny Bond and can even get past Ribombee by itself, but its early game movepool isn't the best (it doesn't even get a Poison STAB until Konikoni!). Late gaem it's good for route clearing if you slap a Choice Specs on it (STABS + Dark Pulse/Psychic/Giga Drain coverage), but it's so frail that sometimes you can't even switch it in on a neutral hit. It feels like a Zoroark with worse stats but a better movepool.

I'll probably to finish my run in the next few days, so are there any mons that need to be tested? Currently my plan for my next run is Comfey/Vulpix-A/Grimer-A/Salandit/Wingull/Cutiefly, but if there's anything else needing testing I can swap these around.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

I'll probably to finish my run in the next few days, so are there any mons that need to be tested? Currently my plan for my next run is Comfey/Vulpix-A/Grimer-A/Salandit/Wingull/Cutiefly, but if there's anything else needing testing I can swap these around.

You can honestly swap out Wingull for something else, I think it's a clear A-tier; it's very decent and is too good to be anything lower, but it has quite a few bad matchups that make me hesitate putting it in S-tier.

Cutiefly you could probably swap out too unless you think it has a chance for C-tier. It's decent in some key matchups, but Bug / Fairy is walled pretty hard on a number of places, so I am not sure if it has any realistic chance of making it to A-tier.

if you want to replace any of those, Beldum would need some testing, since I think B-tier is way too high for it right now, you literally need Roto Catch to even make it reasonable to catch and Beldum/Metang feels like a slug until you get Metagross, so I want to see if someone else shares the same doubts as me

if replacing both at once, you could test either Miltank or Tauros as well, whatever conclusion you reach for one of them, it will be mostly applicable to the other one. If no, you can check out the list on the first posts and check what needs more thoughts.

 

[Magcargo]

Hi, so i'm almost done with my playthrough (only Elite Four left) and here are my thoughts on the mons I used.

Vikavolt (A -> B, maybe C)
Vikavolt has amazing Sp. Attack, decent bulk, and reliable recovery in Roost, but its low speed means it usually can't get off an attack or heal before it's KOed. It doesn't have many good matchups against bosses either, and even with Nanu it's KOed by accumulated chip damage. It relies on Signal Beam as its Bug STAB until the E4, and its only coverage moves are late-game. In my opinion it's definitely not A-tier material and I could even see it in C.

For what its worth, you can actually catch Vikavolt with Bug Buzz at Blush Mountain if you don't like Signal Beam as its STAB via SOS encounters (the encounter rate wasn't too bad either iirc). There are also underleveled Charjabug there that can be caught and rare candied to get Bug Buzz early if SOS isn't allowed.

B-Tier is probably fair for Vikavolt (Grubbin is struggling in some of the earlier fights if you are trying to minimize grinding, at least in my current run), but I think C-Tier is pushing it, especially since Mareep is also in that tier, which Vikavolt holy outclasses during the mid / end game. I used Mareep for a bit but ended up dropping it in my previous run for the Blush Mountain Vikavolt. Even though Vikavolt was underleveled, its stats were on par or better than ampharos in nearly everything,it got STAB on Bug-type attack (which was Flaffy's only coverage move) and had recovery.

Logs

Boss: Totem Raticate
Current Team: (lvl 11) (lvl 14) (lvl 13) (lvl 13) (lvl 14)
- Caught Crabrawler with Careful Nature and Litwick with Rash Nature
Strategy:
- Crabrawler trivializes this fight. Brick Break OHKOes.
- Grubbin does pretty well too, though some planning is required. Raticate will normally outspeed it and its assualt, when combined with the SOS Rattata, will 2HKO Grubbin. However, this issue is fixed if you give Grubbin an Oran Berry. Grubbin's Bug Bite 2HKOes Raticate.
- Litwick doesn't work. You turn Raticates 2HKO w/ Bite to a 3HKO w/ Oran Berry, but you get outspeed and don't even 2HKO with Fire Spin or Ember. The oran berry actually doesn't even make much of a difference since the ally rattata also has Bite (contrary to what serebii.net says) and also outspeed.
- Abra is lol. It doesn't even learn Brick Break yet, which means its bad for this fight.
Boss: Hau 3
Current Team: (lvl 16) (lvl 17) (lvl 16) (lvl 16) (lvl 17) (lvl 13)
- Caught Orricorio as a placeholder mon, might swap it out for something else later
Strategy:
- Gonna be honest, I didn't save before this fight & I didn't wanna redo the Ultra Recon squad fight lol
- Litwick sweeps his entire team
Boss: Hala
Current Team: (lvl 16) (lvl 18) (lvl 17) (lvl 17) (lvl 18) (lvl 14)
Strategy:
- Litwick destroys his team. You can use the Heatran-esque combo of Fire Spin + Wisp to weaken everything til they die. Crabrawler's pursuit deals no damage. That being said, Makuhita's sand attacks are annoying
- Alakazam is a bit unfortunate here since it barely misses out on OHKOing everything on Hala's team. Still, he's able to sweep.
- Crabrawler & Grubbin suck here. They lose to the Machop lol.