Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

[Quoise]

It is self evident palkia having both spacialrend and draco meteor is a bad set.

Tacking on this, potential alternatives for moves include: Earth Power, Thunderbolt/Thunder (useful after a Max Geyser), and Ice Beam.
A problem is that the damage from Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor already do about equal damage to x2 of any of the above coverage moves. Draco Meteor I find useful for that extra bump in acc (compared to pump) and dmg (comp'd. to pump and rend).
Earth Power does provide Max Quake which I'd be for, but coverage-wise is kinda meh with water-dragon stabs and fire blast.

 

[gali]

minor suggestion: destiny bond over memento on delibird so it can actually threaten to kill something

 

[Zaide]

minor suggestion: destiny bond over memento on delibird so it can actually threaten to kill something

I much prefer memento over d-bond. At least, memento is consistent and renders your opponent, most of the time, useless, giving you a window of opportunity to set up with another Pokémon. D-bond is coin toss shenanigans, on top of having lower utility in a meta where dynamax is a thing.

 

[thatcameguy]

give tsareena the option to have triple axel, it hits other grass types most of which check it and it hits flying types for super effective damage

 

[Quoise]

give tsareena the option to have triple axel, it hits other grass types most of which check it and it hits flying types for super effective damage

I'd prefer Triple Axel over Synthesis in its pool. I find Tsareena slow (169 Spe) and only-Grass typing not giving it room for recovery.

 

[pokeblade101]

I would rather just add Triple Axel than remove Synthesis as it is actually decently bulky and has Rapid Spin utility.

 

[Zaide]

I honestly didn't know Tsareena learned Triple Axel... And I honestly love the idea. Makes it more risky to set up with the likes of Dragonite, Salamence, Aerodactyl, Landorus, etc. against it.

 

[ArtinKernel]

hey can we give regieleki a screens set (in addition to the current set since transistor tbolt can be nice to kill airstream gyara or finish off stuff volt won't kill), say screens + volt switch + boom with light clay? virtually guarantees both screens against everything except prankster taunt and lando-i/band EQ, transistor STAB volt bops most defoggers, and volt + boom mean it can easily pivot out to something that exploits the screens. rapid spin's another interesting option to consider. utility options in general seem worth on eleki so that it can actually do something other than switch out or go boom against ground types.

 

[Tommaniacal]

Swords Dance Sandslash shouldn't have Rapid Spin, it's a waste on an offensive set, especially when it could instead have Stone Edge to set up Sand with Dynamax

 

[Aquaa]

Swords Dance Sandslash shouldn't have Rapid Spin, it's a waste on an offensive set, especially when it could instead have Stone Edge to set up Sand with Dynamax

Generally, the combination of Rapid Spin and Swords Dance is effective for sweeping and has proven to be threatening. I personally don't see there's a need to change that. It may seem redundant, but it's a neat choice if you want to preserve your dmax against a special threat to your team. Preventing this set from occurring would most probably require hardcoding, which is suboptimal considering how inconsequential having SD + Rapid Spin is.

 

[thatcameguy]

is there any reason why regieleki doesn't get rapid spin in the dynamax meta

 

[Aquaa]

is there any reason why regieleki doesn't get rapid spin in the dynamax meta

If it were to do that, Heavy Duty Boots would be required to make its role as a hazard remover more efficient. I personally don't want to drop Magnet from Regieleki, because its Transistor- and Magnet-powered Electric type attacks make up for its abhorrent lack of good coverage. It's also rather frail and I would prefer to only send it out for revenge killing. I don't think it can sustain being on the battlefield for long unless the player is positive it can deal finishing blows, or if it wants to quickly pivot out.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe adding Rapid Spin would also free Assault Vest? It sounds cool in theory, but I don't think it's worth not having Magnet on it for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

is there any reason why regieleki doesn't get rapid spin in the dynamax meta

substitute stalls dmax turns extremely efficiently on regieleki

 

[benJAMIN]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/ba...-1380803648-su17tkp75dnv0qm83bdyvcap2gl5gabpw

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 84
EVs: 85 HP / 85 Atk / 85 Def / 85 SpA / 85 SpD / 85 Spe
- Roost
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Hurricane

Ludicolo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 88
EVs: 85 HP / 85 Def / 85 SpA / 85 SpD / 85 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Focus Blast

ludicolo generated after pelipper on the same team and running own tempo... infuriating.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/ba...-1380803648-su17tkp75dnv0qm83bdyvcap2gl5gabpw

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 84
EVs: 85 HP / 85 Atk / 85 Def / 85 SpA / 85 SpD / 85 Spe
- Roost
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Hurricane

Ludicolo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 88
EVs: 85 HP / 85 Def / 85 SpA / 85 SpD / 85 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Focus Blast

ludicolo generated after pelipper on the same team and running own tempo... infuriating.

Team generation is reversed in gen 7; the ludicolo generated before the pelipper.

 

[thatcameguy]

Team generation is reversed in gen 7; the ludicolo generated before the pelipper.

i feel like swift swim should always be generated on ludicolo even on specs, there's no point in having own tempo when you're a special attacker and there's very little things that can inflict confusion

 

[Podown User]

How about Bounce(for Max Airstream) Life Orb Cinderace? It was strong in OU dynamax tours and Gen 8 Monotype Dynamax format in the past
If rise a speed, It can be powerful sweeper with Max Knu or Bulk Up

 

[pokeblade101]

How about Bounce(for Max Airstream) Life Orb Cinderace? It was strong in OU dynamax tours and Gen 8 Monotype Dynamax format in the past
If rise a speed, It can be powerful sweeper with Max Knu or Bulk Up

We had considered this for its set when the gmax set was first added but that means you will get sets without Sucker Punch or High Jump Kick and to add to that, you will now create Banded Bounce. I think Cinderace-Gmax is better as a fixed set.

 

[duck]

can we force rapid spin on eldegoss? I mean it's like the only thing he is usually used to

 

[Skirmish]

sorry if this has been discussed before, and this is my first post on a smogon forum so forgive me if i miss some things.

I feel like scale shot should really be considered for Garchomp, I'm actually quite puzzled as to why it hasn't been added yet. I think either being added alongside outrage or replacing outrage should be considered. Outrage is a move I rarely find room to click, considering that it is completely unsafe to click in a no-preview format. fairies/steels/bulky pokemon get a free revenge kill, whereas scaleshot can give a much needed +1 speed boost to enable garchomp as a much more effective breaker. True, scaleshot is much less consistent in terms of damage, and it also lowers your defense, but garchomps great natural physical bulk makes it so you'll still survive non SE physical attacks at -1 and then be able to outspeed on the next turn. Outrage is only really worth clicking when you know all 6 of your opponents mons, which I think is a steep price. Even if you know your opponents whole team, if they have something that outspeeds, it gives them a free rk. Garchomp's 194 speed isnt slow by any means, but the odds that your opponent has something faster or a scarfer is pretty much guaranteed. Instead, you can SD, then scaleshot and kill anything frail or weakened in front of you, and then be extremely hard to remove or straight up win at +2 attack and +1 Speed. What are the arguments for not including scaleshot on chomp?

Scaleshot on scarf chomp sets would be pretty dead weight though ngl

 

[Zaide]

sorry if this has been discussed before, and this is my first post on a smogon forum so forgive me if i miss some things.

I feel like scale shot should really be considered for Garchomp, I'm actually quite puzzled as to why it hasn't been added yet. I think either being added alongside outrage or replacing outrage should be considered. Outrage is a move I rarely find room to click, considering that it is completely unsafe to click in a no-preview format. fairies/steels/bulky pokemon get a free revenge kill, whereas scaleshot can give a much needed +1 speed boost to enable garchomp as a much more effective breaker. True, scaleshot is much less consistent in terms of damage, and it also lowers your defense, but garchomps great natural physical bulk makes it so you'll still survive non SE physical attacks at -1 and then be able to outspeed on the next turn. Outrage is only really worth clicking when you know all 6 of your opponents mons, which I think is a steep price. Even if you know your opponents whole team, if they have something that outspeeds, it gives them a free rk. Garchomp's 194 speed isnt slow by any means, but the odds that your opponent has something faster or a scarfer is pretty much guaranteed. Instead, you can SD, then scaleshot and kill anything frail or weakened in front of you, and then be extremely hard to remove or straight up win at +2 attack and +1 Speed. What are the arguments for not including scaleshot on chomp?

Scaleshot on scarf chomp sets would be pretty dead weight though ngl

Scale Shot has an expected base power of 66. The speed boost is cool, but you lose a ton of neutral+STAB firepower without Outrage.

At least it's a 130 BP Max Wyrmwind, which makes dynamaxing Garchomp more "viable" if at +1 speed.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

sorry if this has been discussed before, and this is my first post on a smogon forum so forgive me if i miss some things.

I feel like scale shot should really be considered for Garchomp, I'm actually quite puzzled as to why it hasn't been added yet. I think either being added alongside outrage or replacing outrage should be considered. Outrage is a move I rarely find room to click, considering that it is completely unsafe to click in a no-preview format. fairies/steels/bulky pokemon get a free revenge kill, whereas scaleshot can give a much needed +1 speed boost to enable garchomp as a much more effective breaker. True, scaleshot is much less consistent in terms of damage, and it also lowers your defense, but garchomps great natural physical bulk makes it so you'll still survive non SE physical attacks at -1 and then be able to outspeed on the next turn. Outrage is only really worth clicking when you know all 6 of your opponents mons, which I think is a steep price. Even if you know your opponents whole team, if they have something that outspeeds, it gives them a free rk. Garchomp's 194 speed isnt slow by any means, but the odds that your opponent has something faster or a scarfer is pretty much guaranteed. Instead, you can SD, then scaleshot and kill anything frail or weakened in front of you, and then be extremely hard to remove or straight up win at +2 attack and +1 Speed. What are the arguments for not including scaleshot on chomp?

Scaleshot on scarf chomp sets would be pretty dead weight though ngl

-weak
-inaccurate
-lowers defense

 

[Skirmish]

-weak
-inaccurate
-lowers defense

- +1 speed allows you to outright win much more than outrage does.
- strong dragon stab is rarely a necessity. EQ hits everything really hard anyways, edge hits the flying types.
- chomp has great physical bulk so even at -1, it will survive almost all neutral physical hits
- I wouldn't call 90% accuracy "inaccurate". Lets just run rock slide instead of edge on everything then.

It doesnt need to replace outrage, but the sheer utility of +1 speed is undeniable, especially since chomp sits at a decent speed tier and will outspeed everything except the fastest scarfers. after an sd, SS will kill alot of neutral targets with slight chip, even if it gets lower hits and then ur a +2 attack +1 speed demon machine that either forces a dmax or wins on the spot. normal SD chomp gets outspeed by so much and ruins its potential as a breaker

 

[Clementine]

- +1 speed allows you to outright win much more than outrage does.
- strong dragon stab is rarely a necessity. EQ hits everything really hard anyways, edge hits the flying types.
- chomp has great physical bulk so even at -1, it will survive almost all neutral physical hits
- I wouldn't call 90% accuracy "inaccurate". Lets just run rock slide instead of edge on everything then.

It doesnt need to replace outrage, but the sheer utility of +1 speed is undeniable, especially since chomp sits at a decent speed tier and will outspeed everything except the fastest scarfers. after an sd, SS will kill alot of neutral targets with slight chip, even if it gets lower hits and then ur a +2 attack +1 speed demon machine that either forces a dmax or wins on the spot. normal SD chomp gets outspeed by so much and ruins its potential as a breaker

Hi! Randbats @ and sets discussions contributor here.
I used to think Scale Shot was almost mandatory on Garchomp but truth is, it's not a good move at all in a format where Atk EVs aren't maxed out.
• You will find yourself struggling to get KOs in a lot of situations; for example, a +2 Scale Shot from Garchomp only has a slight chance to 2HKO Mew with 3 hits, where Outrage has a chance to OHKO after Stealth Rocks.
• Having a strong Dragon STAB is extremely good in Random Battles, simply because as opposed to a well-built team in a regular tier, Random Battle teams don't always have a Dragon resist, let alone an immunity. Switching into Garchomp will be much easier if the threat of being hit by a Dragon-type move doesn't exist because of Scale Shot pathetic's base power and shaky accuracy (I mean, 90% Acc for a 60ish BP move? yikes).
• The matter of Chomp living neutral physical moves at -1 is a good point... but that's just not a good argument at all. For example, a Choice Scarf Zapdos-Galar has a 23.4% chance to 2HKO regular Garchomp with either Brave Bird or Close Combat, while it always 2HKOs a -1 Garchomp (even if Chomp gets the -1 after Zapdos' first hit). Let's not forget that a +1 Chomp will be slower than a lot of Scarf users, including the aformentioned Zapdos-Galar.
• Going back to the accuracy thing, the debate of Stone Edge vs. Rock Slide is extremely different from the Scale Shot vs. Outrage. On one hand, you have a 100 BP move with 80% Acc, and a 75 BP move with 90% Acc; the drawback of having 10% less accuracy on Edge is outweighted by the much higher BP. In our case, you have a 90% Accurate move with a shaky BP because you're more often than not going to get 2 or 3 hits, vs a 120 BP 100 Acc move, so sure, 90% isn't inaccurate, but it makes the move even less reliable.

I hope you understand our point and this has been a debate for months really, but in the end Scale Shot is 100% worse than Outrage in this format. Have a nice day! :]

 

[Zaide]

I would like to talk about... Lickilicky.

I just got, in a fight, a banded Lickilicky (knock off, explosion, body slam, EQ) with Oblivious. I noticed it after my opponent used Taunt on it.

Oblivious is obviously fantastic on SD or Support Lickilicky sets. However, on a banded set? Its only use is against Lopunny, the sole Cute Charm carrier in randbats. I noticed it was the only ability that Lickilicky can get.

Forgive me if I mix things up (don't remember if abilities are always generated before or after the movesets), but to my understanding, certain abilities can be associated with a specific moveset or previously generated teammates (i.e. sand rush on excadrill if a teammate generated before it has sand stream, or if it has a rock type move).

Given that, there would be zero reason to not have Own Tempo over Oblivious for banded sets. Both block intimidate, and Own Tempo has the benefits of preventing confusing, which is far more likely to happen (hurricane, strange steam, dynamic punch, water pulse, gmax smite...) than infatuation from lopunny.

Cloud Nine could also be more useful, preventing Lickilicky from being outsped by opponents whose speed is boosted by weather if it lands a paralysis with Body Slam, being hit less from weather boosted moves, etc. But I think Own Tempo is overall a better choice because of its double utility (blocking intimidate and preventing confusion).