:O when did he said that?
Mantine is already a OU viable mon :<
As for new alolan forms Arbok and Dodrio where said to get regional variations in early S&M leaks
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Sticky Pokemon Direct - 6th June Discussion - Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
- Thread starter DHR-107
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:O when did he said that?
Mantine is already a OU viable mon :<
As for new alolan forms Arbok and Dodrio where said to get regional variations in early S&M leaks
Can't help but feel Kitsunime just triggered us, I agree with gabriel about one or two more events, as much as it breaks the norms, also can't help but feel that the whole z move discussion is railing against a decision thats already been made, and as much as it feels like a one step forward two steps back kind of an issue it hasn't caused as much of an issue as mega evolutions had for competitive battling. Which imo is where the quote is coming from, as thus far, Z omni boost and evasion are the only two z moves to be banned from OU and the rest of the metagame z move effected (not accounting for over powered mons which will get suspected) is relatively stable with them included, whereas mega mons were a continuing issue and still are to the competitive community with multiple suspects to mega evolutions and has caused a massive instability to all the tiers. Again all just my views, feel free to tear it pieces xD
I know Mantine is but there's also a reason why atm its still classed as RU, and i vaguely remember the quote from one of the pre release interviews for sun and moon, anyone who can find the link would be helpful
Whoo-boy today's announcement was equally hype and annoying. But ultimately who cares, we're getting Sun and Moon 2.0, while everyone's favorite childhood PTSD returns with Gen2 Whitney's Miltank. Some good nostalgia right there, hopefully the rose tint on the goggles wasn't too much though.
The way they worded it makes me think that they could do new Alolan Forms, and with the Gen 2 Virtual Console release, I actually think we may see Johto ones if we do. The question with that, however, would be if we see new Pokedex additions getting new Alolan Forms, existing Johto Pokemon in the Alola Dex getting Alolan Forms, or a combination of both. Although if it is confirmed a time-skip, rather than an alternate universe story, then we can probably kiss the possibility of new Alolan Forms goodbye.
On the subject of story: if it is a time-skip, will we see gyms?
Regardless, new exclusive Z-Moves seem Highly likely, since new Megas were added in ORAS, and Z-moves are a new gimmick on par with Megas. Mimikyu getting a Z-Move seems likely, and if Rotom gets one, it would be an amusing reference to a rotomdex line. Beyond that, however, no idea where to start speculating.
Move Tutors seem like a given, and i'm sure we could all wishlist some moves we want to see, I think that if the move tutors stay the same as in the past couple of generations, then Incineroar and Kommo-o may stand to gain a lot from the list of established move tutors. Knock-Off, Superpower, and Drain Punch seem plausible additions to Incineroar, and all three seem purrfect additions to a potential VGC set. Meanwhile Kommo-o could finally get that great Physical Fighting move it needs to be a better threat. Also maybe Iron Head, since that does fit with the Pokedex a bit.
Another couple of things i've seen mentioned in this thread:
Gems: TBH, i assumed Gems would be added into the game via Global Link game (who remembers that gen 6 had games there?) but scrapped the idea. Ultra Sun/Moon would be a great place to add them back in, especially if we get an alternate universe story.
Silvally: Honestly, I feel a terrible movepool is the biggest thing holding the false doggod back, rather than the Memories not providing a boost. If it were to get a Good Priority Move like Sucker Punch or Extremespeed, and/or a Reliable Recovery Move, then it would be in a hugely superior place. It could still gain some coverage which would help, but how much would be open to debate, imo.
Prediction Edit!: The only type to not have an associated Unique trainer in Sun/Moon is Ice. I predict we will see one appear in UltraSM, and my slightly-educated guess is they'll make Lillie less useless and make her the Ice-Type Trainer. (She has an Alolan Vulpix in the show. Not the sturdiest of arguments, but still not baseless.)
The way they worded it makes me think that they could do new Alolan Forms, and with the Gen 2 Virtual Console release, I actually think we may see Johto ones if we do. The question with that, however, would be if we see new Pokedex additions getting new Alolan Forms, existing Johto Pokemon in the Alola Dex getting Alolan Forms, or a combination of both. Although if it is confirmed a time-skip, rather than an alternate universe story, then we can probably kiss the possibility of new Alolan Forms goodbye.
On the subject of story: if it is a time-skip, will we see gyms?
Regardless, new exclusive Z-Moves seem Highly likely, since new Megas were added in ORAS, and Z-moves are a new gimmick on par with Megas. Mimikyu getting a Z-Move seems likely, and if Rotom gets one, it would be an amusing reference to a rotomdex line. Beyond that, however, no idea where to start speculating.
Move Tutors seem like a given, and i'm sure we could all wishlist some moves we want to see, I think that if the move tutors stay the same as in the past couple of generations, then Incineroar and Kommo-o may stand to gain a lot from the list of established move tutors. Knock-Off, Superpower, and Drain Punch seem plausible additions to Incineroar, and all three seem purrfect additions to a potential VGC set. Meanwhile Kommo-o could finally get that great Physical Fighting move it needs to be a better threat. Also maybe Iron Head, since that does fit with the Pokedex a bit.
Another couple of things i've seen mentioned in this thread:
Gems: TBH, i assumed Gems would be added into the game via Global Link game (who remembers that gen 6 had games there?) but scrapped the idea. Ultra Sun/Moon would be a great place to add them back in, especially if we get an alternate universe story.
Silvally: Honestly, I feel a terrible movepool is the biggest thing holding the false doggod back, rather than the Memories not providing a boost. If it were to get a Good Priority Move like Sucker Punch or Extremespeed, and/or a Reliable Recovery Move, then it would be in a hugely superior place. It could still gain some coverage which would help, but how much would be open to debate, imo.
Prediction Edit!: The only type to not have an associated Unique trainer in Sun/Moon is Ice. I predict we will see one appear in UltraSM, and my slightly-educated guess is they'll make Lillie less useless and make her the Ice-Type Trainer. (She has an Alolan Vulpix in the show. Not the sturdiest of arguments, but still not baseless.)
I think we're all hyped from the announcement so I think we're all a bit more trigger happy than usual.
Indeed, the decisions has been made so nothing we say will change that. I'm just getting my thoughts out there to see if people agree with me or at least see where my thinking is coming from. While true GF will do whatever they please (for better or worse), I do like to believe that if they ever decide to take fan opinions on Mega Evolution they'll decide to keep doing them because they're a good concept. Sure, they got a little overzealous with some, but I think these problems can be fixed instead of deciding the whole mechanic was a dud.
Also, now that we have Z-Moves, do we really need anything else to "even the playing field". If the idea was to give something every Pokemon a major mechanic to use, congratulations, you made it. But now what? Keep making exclusive Z-Moves? Isn't that no different from why you stopped doing Mega Evolution? By all means make more Z-Moves, but that's no reason to also stop making Mega Evolutions. Also there's still that question of them doing the same thing next gen, abandoning Z-Moves to focus on a new mechanic.
This kind of reminds me of a observation a critic made of the Sonic franchise. Sega is so busy re-inventing Sonic games every game or so that it has brought the Blue Blur into a state of flux of good game and bad game. They just can't stick with one thing that works and build off it for long. While not as drastic as what's being done to the Sonic games, I'm worried that if GF keeps introducing new mechanics while abandoning the old we're going to get into a whole new kind of franchise fatigue: innovation for the sake of trying to remain "fresh".
That does feel like what is actually happening. The battle system stopped being edited in gen 4, then 5 only added more of everything (monsters, abilities, battle modes, etc.). Gens 6 and 7 did the same, but with one big gimmick that's just kind of hacked into an already existing system (Mega Evolution, Z-moves). After the physical/special split, they essentially perfected the battle system and just needed to keep adding things because.
Now, I'm in the camp of believing that Megas should have never happened, and have done irreparable damage to multiplayer. It's now kind of interesting to see they didn't really like it either, and kind of just ditched it.
Unrelated, but speaking of Silvally, we still have a 3rd Type: Null unaccounted for in S/M's timeline. Pretty safe bet we'll see it in USM, but the backstory involving it could potentially be interesting.
Here's the thing, as much as we like to thing Smogon has command of the entirety of the competitive community, we don't. The rules for Smogon and our tiers are different from the competitive rules for VGC. Game Freak could suddenly add a Pokemon with a base stat total of 10,000, and there's nothing we could do about it, regardless of the impact on our tiering system. Similarly, it doesn't matter how unstable in tier what new Megas we could get, Game Freak can add them beacuse they don't have to care about our system.
What if Game Freak decided to suddenly give Dedenne a signature Z-Move that guaranteed an 0HKO against any Pokemon with 100% accuracy and gave it a 3 stage SpAtk and Speed boost? We would probably ban that to "Anything Goes", but Game Freak is not required to ban it from VGC rules just beacuse we feel it is OP.
The only issues that matters to Game Freak, are on the stability of their games (ironing out bugs, and trying to make a compelling game), and the economic benefit from making them (I've stated this before, Z-Crystals/Z-Moves were probably added to sell more toys most of all). We're entirely at their whim, which means we will ultimately get whats best for Game Freak, not whats best for Smogon.
Oh wow... in 3DS though? I thought SuMn already had hard time, so I hope getting this won't break my 3DS.
But either way, it is time to seal the story on Necrozma?
Also, now we got Kyurem's formula now? Necro-Lunaala looks somewhat ridiculous, unlike Necro-leo who's at least plausibly cool. Still....
The new player character looks... that hat made him look like preschooler who also wears similar hat.
Anyway, I wonder how the story goes this time. And do we even know if this is confirmed to be sequel or alternate storyline? Well, I'm hoping they can connect a lot more stuffs there, such as the previous game cameos and maybe UB and the island guardians (not just Koko) taking part in the story too.
Decidueye as new Pokken character. This is getting interesting now, but I wonder if they'll slip Z-Move now as the Burst attack.
But either way, it is time to seal the story on Necrozma?
Also, now we got Kyurem's formula now? Necro-Lunaala looks somewhat ridiculous, unlike Necro-leo who's at least plausibly cool. Still....
The new player character looks... that hat made him look like preschooler who also wears similar hat.
Anyway, I wonder how the story goes this time. And do we even know if this is confirmed to be sequel or alternate storyline? Well, I'm hoping they can connect a lot more stuffs there, such as the previous game cameos and maybe UB and the island guardians (not just Koko) taking part in the story too.
Decidueye as new Pokken character. This is getting interesting now, but I wonder if they'll slip Z-Move now as the Burst attack.
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Reminds me. Lusamine's team of mad looking 'mon. Actually, I see that apparently it is Z Energy that causes them that as I see (barring species Z-moves), Pokemon shows that "angry expression" under Z Energy, not Nihilego.
But then again, the Z Energy buff is of course exclusive to the villain....
It was too late for me to post any thoughts last night after the Direct, so apologies for not reading through the comments thus far to see if they've already been expressed (they probably have).
Was initially disappointed in the announcement, and still am. I'm not fond of the idea of going through Alola again so soon. I hope it is some form of continuation of the SuMo story (perhaps a few years on) and we'll get the answers to at least some of the following questions:
Was initially disappointed in the announcement, and still am. I'm not fond of the idea of going through Alola again so soon. I hope it is some form of continuation of the SuMo story (perhaps a few years on) and we'll get the answers to at least some of the following questions:
- What did Lusamine and trainer Lillie accomplish in Kanto? I hope they make a return.
- Did they find out who Hau's father is?
- What really is Necrozma? I'm glad we'll get to see more of it (from the looks of it) since we were never really told whether it's an Ultra Beast or not.
- Did Hala tame Guzma?
- So what exactly was Zygarde doing in Alola?
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Honestly from my perspective it looks like many people were hoping Alola would just fade away from relevance like Kalos did. It's not fair to this beautiful region, and all that hard work building up the lore that surrounds it. Alola has far more potential then Kalos ever did and I really hope these games really sweep us off our feet. Because currently it really looks as though Sun and Moon put a bad taste in some people's mouths for some reason, and hopefully it changes on how we look at this generation.
And besides, it's been shown that a Switch can access a 3Ds via the new Monster hunter game XX in Japan.
Basically this. They may have expected it to increase the viability of some lesser used Pokemon, which it did, while increasing variety in VGC, which it didn't. It's a neat concept, but figuring out how to salvage it would probably take a ton of work. In the mean time, you'll see tons of people wishing they do more with it, even though doubling down probably won't fix things as much, since the major flaw, imo, is how mandatory Mega Evolution is in both team building and battling.
Z-Moves, on the other hand, do actually seem to be a lot more successful at what they want. Sure there probably isn't as much design space for exclusive ones, and they still do feel a bit mandatory for team building... but at the same time they also don't feel mandatory to use in every match. The do add in a bit more choice without feeling like they centralize the meta around them. And to be honest, that is why I would be more happy to see new exclusive Z-Moves over new Megas.
Sweet Scent drops by two stages - in other words, equal to Gravity (and also works on both targets). Fuck if I know what you'd want to use it with (Miltank??) but you can pair it with Grasswhistle / Hypnosis in the same obnoxious way.
Gen 6 was such a weird generation. So many things that the devs from the looks of it didn't like especially so far into development that after they got the main titles/remakes were out they did as much as they could to escape from it. So many answers left...unanswered. Story was so bad they ditched it. Mega Evolution after awhile the devs must have reached some sort of block. Z moves and alolan forms (hopefully we do get more of them) seem to be what GF wanted out of Megas. It just frustrates me that we may not see any new ones. Instant 100+ BST increase is much better than maybe +20 in a stat after a few years.
Well, yes Z-Moves accomplish what Game Freak set out to with them (other than trying to develop another cash-cow mechanic), which was to give less used Pokemon a possible use. However, the unintended side effects of going with the Z system are pretty severe.
The biggest difference between Z-Moves and Megas (other than one is a temporary evolution, and one is a single use move), is the complexity. Megas are not very hard to use, you slap on the matching crystal, hit evolve button, and out pops an epic-er looking Pokemon. Z-Moves, on the other hand, take a lot more skill to master unless you're just using them as nukes (as I'm sure 99% of casual players use them), because there's a whole list of effects that can take place depending on which move you use with the Z-Crystal.
Here in lies the problem. Casual players don't know/want to know the in-depth effects of what they use to battle, they're playing the game for the catharsis of completing the game/post-game, not the meta battling. So while it takes a long time to learn what each and every Z-Move does (something I'm pretty sure most people don't even know completely), megas just require you to know cool Pokemon -> Mega cool Pokemon with more stats/different ability. Megas have a much clearer effect for the average player than Z-Moves.
Moreover, Megas are just not as boring as Z-Moves. You can go into your Mega fast, and while its the same process every time, you aren't stuck watching a long cutscene. Z-Moves however, have a fairly lengthy cutscene, that looks cool, but after getting watching it for the 30th time, it feels more like a chore than a fun battle mechanic.
As a result, we've been seeing a large decrease in active players within the Pokemon community. Of course, this is compounded with all the problems of the Alola region (most notably the change from the PSS to the Festival Plaza, gtfo the moron who thought that was a good idea), but it's still a significant problem beacuse it's such a hyped mechanic. Casual players simply do not want to play through Sun and Moon or continue playing it, because while it's fun initially, it gets boring fast. I have a handful of friends, of whom all have played from Gen 3 and up, and literally I am the only one playing at this point only beacuse I'm in the competitive scene. Most of them didn't even get off the first island before they stopped playing.
Z-Moves aren't bad, but they're geared towards competitive play, not casual play. As a result, they only hurt the franchise by turning off new and casual players. Pokemon isn't defined by the meta, and how 'different' and 'variable' the meta is, it's ultimately defined by all the people who play it. If most of the people who play it aren't returning/continuing to play your game, you've done something wrong.
Of course, Game Freak has made some bad choices with the Megas that hurt the meta. Mega Metagross is pretty hard to counter in the meta, and Mega Garchomp is completely redundant. But, Megas have had some success stories to. Beedrill went from being a pretty mediocre Pokemon, to an OU Behemoth. Banette turned into a decent mon with a massive Attack and access to Prankster, one of the best abilities in the game. Glaile took the spotlight with Refrigerate, and became one of the most fun grenades I used in ORAS, even when I lost. As long as Game Freak chooses the right Pokemon to Mega, then they'll work fine. They don't need to redefine the Meta, they just need to be fun to use.
Well, to be fair, casual players, as you said, are only ever going to be using them as nukes which means they don't have to remember a lot of effects because its just move -> stronger move. A casual run of the game doesn't call for status Z-Moves to ever be viable, I wasn't even aware of status Z-Moves' existence until after I'd done my SuMo run and was thinking about competitive.
If Game Freak gear the game towards casuals more again, then they'll receive backlash from the competitive community, which is a pretty vocal group, so it seems to be a lose-lose either way.
If Game Freak gear the game towards casuals more again, then they'll receive backlash from the competitive community, which is a pretty vocal group, so it seems to be a lose-lose either way.
But they didn't ditch it, the Mega that exist still are still here. If anything, if they felt Mega are a problem then abandoning it is the worst thing they can do as that means whatever problems the existing Mega Pokemon caused to make them feel this way now won't be fixed. Pokemon traits aren't set in stone, if they feel they made certain Mega Pokemon too powerful they could edit their stats, typing, and Ability to iron out the problem they have with it.
Also they didn't want to do any more Mega Pokemon yet perfectly happy to add in Battle Bond Greninja.
1. That's another story for another game. Maybe if we get another Kanto game in the future they'll base it around the time after Sun & Moon and we'd found out how Lillie and Lusamine have been doing.
2. That's really not an important detail. Does provide a future character possibly but I don't think for the Alola games.
4. The answer to that is sort of in Moon version. Guzma is a battle partner in the Battle Tree after beating him the final time in the story and he's calmer than he was in the story, even friendly toward the player when they team up. Would like to see more of Guzma's character development, along with Plumeria and how other scattered Team Skull members are doing now that Skull is no more (and if there are any who are still thuggin').
5. Being leftover Pokemon Z stuff. Same as the above mentioned Battle Bond Greninja. Wouldn't be surprised now that they did it they don't include the quest in USM.
It didn't increase variety because they only focused on the popular Pokemon, but had they kept making more then eventually it would increase the variety because there would be a variety to choose from. As you said, it increased the viability of some lesser used Pokemon, and think of all the other lesser used Pokemon who could have used a Mega to finally push them over the hurdle. If that's the main problem with Mega Pokemon that's a problem GF created for themselves and easily fixed by just making more Mega Pokemon for the Pokemon who need it rather then what's popular.
And yeah, Mega had essentially become mandatory (but then again the meta game had always been a bit centralized around certain Pokemon (Sun & Moon being no exception, hi Celesteela). Mega just gives some Pokemon a chance to be added to this centralization), but I do feel the same can be said for Z-Moves. Sure, you could probably make a team without Z-Move and do perfectly fine, but then again having a potential 1HKO nuke move is very tempting and can easily change a tide of a battle.
1. I hope you're wrong. The game feels so incomplete that way, though I suppose they don't really owe it to us to give an explanation or storyline for them anymore. I also initially (i.e. after I finished SuMo) thought that a Kanto game in the future would probably feature Lillie, else they wouldn't have put so much of an emphasis on Kanto throughout the game.
2. True, it's more just for my own curiosity.
4. I'm not sure the Battle Tree can be used to judge anything. I feel like they just put him there because he was (sort of) a main-ish character in the game and it'd just be cool to team up with him. I'm curious about Plumeria too, though, maybe they regroup under her or something.
5. They'd better not include the quest for those 100 cells again.
I guess I was (am) just disappointed that we aren't getting a gen four remake (rumours of that had been circling for a while), I'd like to actually play those games seeing as I skipped generations two through five. Glad that we're getting Gold/Silver on virtual console, though.
Who says we're not? Maybe not right now, but with us already getting the "sequel" games this early I think the next games being the Sinnoh remakes would be a nice "break" before we move on to Gen VIII. Also, while it's understandable they wouldn't want to have the Alola games on different consoles, there's nothing holding them back putting the Sinnoh Remakes on the Switch.
True, I hadn't thought of that. I just hope they revamp Alola so it's at least different from what we just had last year (for the record I don't know what the differences between BW and B2W2 are so I'm not understanding any comparisons).
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