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Pokemon BDSP Playthrough Discussion
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
So I've been going the gym leader rematches lately, where I just beat Byron. He has a Scarf Head Smash Aggron, which puts a stop to my Infernape's Stealth Rock-fueled rampage (cause boy does Byron love Sturdy). Next time I go to my Bastiodon when Aggron comes out so I can lower its speed with Rock Tomb, then sacrifice something and bring Infernape back in. Theoretically this uses up 3 Head Smashes, but one misses on my fodder, and then everyone's favorite mechanic lets it tough out the next one. The fifth Head Smash KOs it finally, and while Infernape would theoretically be primed to run through Byron's whole team at this point, Aggron switches out since it's locked into a move with no PP. Infernape unleashes some carnage before Aggron comes back in, ostensibly neutered. But now it's faster again, and between CC defense drops and LO recoil, Infernape is revenge-killed by Struggle. Basically, I'm saying that affection is secretly a hardmode mechanic.
Pokemon with recoil moves are such a pain.
I almost didn't catch a Bulbasaur and completely failed to catch Torchic because of this.
How do you see the Lake Trio and add their entries to your Regional Dex?
Do you have to catch them?
I want the National Dex but I cba to catch any of them yet.
Do you have to catch them?
I want the National Dex but I cba to catch any of them yet.
Mesprit is automatically added to the dex when you interact with it and it runs off.
Uxie, Azelf must be battled. I don't know if this is a game where you can KO the legend, then beat the E4 again, then try again. But I assume so?
Will an ingame tier list be considered for BDSP? At least for the Elite 4 portion since it mostly doesn't matter who or what you're using prior to that.
Because the Elite 4 (similar to USUM with its major battles) uses EV spreads and/or items beyond sitrus berry for the final battles, people have been having trouble with them. It's also one of the very few points in the game where you don't outlevel your opponent. Cynthia in particular has been filtering a few people.
I know there wasn't one done for SwSh because of the sheer number of Pokemon available as well as the forced EXP share mechanic, and Max Raid grinding making any "challenge" near irrelevant. On top of that, with a $30 tip, you can get a Suicune (and most Pre Gen 8 legendaries) at level 70 before the first gym, which is like Emerald Rayquaza on steroids. The tier list would just be SSS+ tier: Dynamax Adventure mons and F tier: literally everything else.
With BDSP, it has some qualities that it shares with both SwSh and LGPE, but is also a faithful remake so it has its own qualities over (or technically under) the two as well. And about 100 or so Pokemon (all Pokemon in an evolution line count as one) is easier to grade than like 300+.
Because the Elite 4 (similar to USUM with its major battles) uses EV spreads and/or items beyond sitrus berry for the final battles, people have been having trouble with them. It's also one of the very few points in the game where you don't outlevel your opponent. Cynthia in particular has been filtering a few people.
I know there wasn't one done for SwSh because of the sheer number of Pokemon available as well as the forced EXP share mechanic, and Max Raid grinding making any "challenge" near irrelevant. On top of that, with a $30 tip, you can get a Suicune (and most Pre Gen 8 legendaries) at level 70 before the first gym, which is like Emerald Rayquaza on steroids. The tier list would just be SSS+ tier: Dynamax Adventure mons and F tier: literally everything else.
With BDSP, it has some qualities that it shares with both SwSh and LGPE, but is also a faithful remake so it has its own qualities over (or technically under) the two as well. And about 100 or so Pokemon (all Pokemon in an evolution line count as one) is easier to grade than like 300+.
I think there's merit to it.
1. On the level thing...A lot of DP's routes have an interesting set up where you can just....avoid at least half, if not 2/3rds, if not ALL the trainers. So there's some "interesting" consideration from being able to avoid being 10-15 levels over and probably hover around 5 levels over for whatever Pokemon you grab. Which is annoying, but whatever, for a tier list it seems like msot of the time the assumptoin is "you're grabbing a core of pokemon and its tiered based on how useful it is moment to moment" and a slight slant towards "effeciency". Honestly a SWSH tier list could probably still function with EXP Share it's just that annoyance that nags you most of the time, the problem really is more the Wild Area.
2. Also on the above, sometimes some Pokemon are just better than others even at higher levels. Rapidash, mine was adamant, routinely ran into issues where a reasonably "okay" bulk pokemon would survive its Flame Charge just as much as it Survives Flamethrower. Empoleon's not a bad Pokemon by any means but I found myself not using it a lot; yeah it's always there and always getting levels on par with the cruve, but if you're not pulling it out for battles, that says something about the pokemon.
And hey if a Pokemon underperforms at "around 5 levels over" that also says something and if they need to spend time fighting trainers you skipped, well...
3. The Underground's extra Pokemon are spread around, significantly fewer in number than the Wild Area, and many are gate locked by HM progress. And grabbing one right after Gardenia is a pain so that kind of matters. Plus the idea of while you can hunt for egg moves, the hunting matters for ranking since that's more time.
And then you ram face first into the E4 and well have fun figuring that out.
For the purpose of a tier list honestly i say just eat the exp share, and make a note of "okay this pokemon actually did need more levels anyway" rather than tiering it around the idea of having a rotating team of 10+
Like you can easily skip the route west of Pastoria. You don't need that. The route to sunyshore? completely avoid all the trainers. That route to the west of Celestic? Dont need to go there and if you do you just dont take the top route. if you go along the jagged part of the route under veilstone you only fight like 2 trainers as opposed to like 5.
From a "just playing the game" perspective expecting someone to avoid all these to keep a level curve in check is...dumb, and definitely not the idea of the thing, but from a tier list perspective I think there's some interesting meta, for lack of a better word. Like it saves you time, some pokemon wont need it at all and some probably will and that would kind of play into it just because 'okay yeah this pokemon needs to put in extra time to do real workso its really more of a B Tier but a good B Tier" while "this pokemon can coast the whole game no matter what you do" would probably go to A Tier or w/e.
And while there's some bad Pokemon you can just kick to the back and rake in exp (so you avoid active grind) there's still the question of "if I'm not using this pokemon for X amount of Major Battles, is this really worth a higher tier placement" kind of thing.
I am very invested in the BDSP Tier List meta just because it's in such an interesting little space.
Like you can easily skip the route west of Pastoria. You don't need that. The route to sunyshore? completely avoid all the trainers. That route to the west of Celestic? Dont need to go there and if you do you just dont take the top route. if you go along the jagged part of the route under veilstone you only fight like 2 trainers as opposed to like 5.
From a "just playing the game" perspective expecting someone to avoid all these to keep a level curve in check is...dumb, and definitely not the idea of the thing, but from a tier list perspective I think there's some interesting meta, for lack of a better word. Like it saves you time, some pokemon wont need it at all and some probably will and that would kind of play into it just because 'okay yeah this pokemon needs to put in extra time to do real workso its really more of a B Tier but a good B Tier" while "this pokemon can coast the whole game no matter what you do" would probably go to A Tier or w/e.
And while there's some bad Pokemon you can just kick to the back and rake in exp (so you avoid active grind) there's still the question of "if I'm not using this pokemon for X amount of Major Battles, is this really worth a higher tier placement" kind of thing.
I am very invested in the BDSP Tier List meta just because it's in such an interesting little space.
I don't have the game and probably won't be picking it up, but I'll also say that there is a reason I'm not super interested in making tier lists for games like X and Y, SWSH, and BDSP. You...don't really need them from what I'm seeing for the most part.
Like, they aren't Kirby's Epic Yarn levels of "you literally can't fail" (in spite of this, I think Epic Yarn is one of the best Kirby games but that's a discussion for another day) but it's just...the amount of effort to publish a list for the easier games really isn't fun.
Sure, there may be a few difficult fights but playing these games normally with EXP Share always on is just...boring busy work. I can't see myself running them repeatedly without losing my mind. And I want to have fun when I'm playing a game repeatedly. X and Y, while you can turn it off, falls victim to "no, I don't want to tier a 450 or so Pokemon game."
Now, RBY? That was fun because it was relatively straightforward to tier, despite also being mega easy. There's enough jank you can point and laugh at it, and RBY mechanics were so simplistic it didn't really bother me, aside from the TM problem.
The newer games? By and large you don't need much strategy. The game mechanics are so refined and major battles rarely cover their weaknesses much anymore. Gone are the days of BW2 Colress where you actually had to try. I had hoped the Alola games were leading toward better boss design across the board, but for the most part we've gotten the "poor, predictable rock" problem despite a few games actually trying to challenge that philosophy. It's a shame.
Best of luck to anyone who attempts a tier list on the recent stuff! My life has been picking up anyway, so I can't devote as much time to this stuff as I used to.
Like, they aren't Kirby's Epic Yarn levels of "you literally can't fail" (in spite of this, I think Epic Yarn is one of the best Kirby games but that's a discussion for another day) but it's just...the amount of effort to publish a list for the easier games really isn't fun.
Sure, there may be a few difficult fights but playing these games normally with EXP Share always on is just...boring busy work. I can't see myself running them repeatedly without losing my mind. And I want to have fun when I'm playing a game repeatedly. X and Y, while you can turn it off, falls victim to "no, I don't want to tier a 450 or so Pokemon game."
Now, RBY? That was fun because it was relatively straightforward to tier, despite also being mega easy. There's enough jank you can point and laugh at it, and RBY mechanics were so simplistic it didn't really bother me, aside from the TM problem.
The newer games? By and large you don't need much strategy. The game mechanics are so refined and major battles rarely cover their weaknesses much anymore. Gone are the days of BW2 Colress where you actually had to try. I had hoped the Alola games were leading toward better boss design across the board, but for the most part we've gotten the "poor, predictable rock" problem despite a few games actually trying to challenge that philosophy. It's a shame.
Best of luck to anyone who attempts a tier list on the recent stuff! My life has been picking up anyway, so I can't devote as much time to this stuff as I used to.
It took 75 hours and 17 minutes of playtime, but I have everyone at the level I wanted for the Elite Four.
I don't know how on Earth, or how many attempts it will take me to beat them with some of these teams (thank you, randomizer), but I'll look forward to the challenge.
I might have to wait a little more to do some more tweaks (particularly getting some Earthquake TMs from the Underground) before getting in.
As a bit of flavor for the team...
Pachirisu - Carrizo, after Federico Carrizo, argentine footballer nicknamed "Pachi".
Chatot - Charap, as it's the one you get via trade in Eterna City.
Quagsire - Upa, after how Wooper's pronounciation sounds in Spanish.
Octillery - Opus Tank, after the Epsilon Headquarters main tank in Mental Omega. It also sounds like Okutank, Octillery's japanese name.
Jirachi - Lotería. "Lottery" in Spanish, given its wish theme.
Magnezone - Maxwell, after James Clerk Maxwell.
Noctowl - Siegfried, after the European Alliance hero from Mental Omega, who's the leading expert in time technology.
Garchomp - Melo. Concatenate it with "Garchomp" and you get something that sounds a little dirty here in Argentina.
Crobat - Barbara, after Batgirl.
Gastrodon - Izquierdoz, after Carlos Izquierdos, a reliable but slow argentine defender.
Pelipper - Inolvidable, because of a meme related to Spanish youtuber RanguGamer, where many of his Pokémon's memories in ORAS involved a Wingull.
Toxicroak - Ed, after the character from Ed, Edd 'n Eddy because his run and Croagunk's walks are similar.
Floatzel - Soy la, after I.M. Weasel's name in the Latin American Spanish's dub.
Gengar - Hary Pottr, after the fact that, in the infamous fan fiction Im a Wisserd, Harry dies and ends up as a ghost.
Mothim - NOPOL, after a fictional product meant to kill feed moths in a Les Luthiers play.
Togekiss - Lionheart, after the stolen tech Allied aircraft in Mental Omega, whose bombardments disable enemy vehicles, just like Togekiss can with Air Slash.
Drifblim - COMER NIÑOS, after the trendy topic RanguGamer picked in his Emerald playthrough. And it fits with this evolutionary line.
Lickilicky - Lengüis, after the Latin American Spanish name for Tonguey, the Chosen One's talking tongue from Kung Pow! Enter the Fist.
Beautifly - Mantecavolar. A deliberately bad Spanish translation of butterfly.
Manaphy - Ocean Prince, after the character with the same name from Puyo Puyo.
Clefable - Selenita ("selenite") because of its relation to the moon. Also a reference to a hilariously bad episode of La Rosa de Guadalupe, where a drug dealer manipulates children into trafficking drugs through a videogame, under the nickname Selenita.
Heracross - Cornamenta because it has a horn and it's female. Couldn't think of anything better.
Machamp - Bane, after the Batman character.
Bronzong - HELL BELL, after the Bronzong from the creepypasta.
Golduck - Daisy, after the female Disney duck.
Steelix - Spock, because it's "long and prosper".
Empoleon - Pucci, after Carlos López Puccio, a member of Les Luthiers. In a play, he's mistaken for a penguin.
Altaria - Bluey. From an old story I once wrote but I lost, where a Swablu had that nickname.
Drapion - Harumi, after the deceased wife of Scorpion from Mortal Kombat.
Golem - Deck, after argentine basketball player Gabriel Deck, nicknamed "Turtle".
Bibarel - Daggett, after the Angry Beavers character.
Mew - Zapato ("Shoe"), after Matt Engarde's cat from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All.
Roserade - B`loody Mary, after "Hermione" from My Immortal.
Dialga - Paradox, after the Paradox Engine from Mental Omega, which can freeze time.
Weavile - Manostijeras, after Edward Scissorhands's Spanish name.
Azelf - Carby, after Carbuncle from Puyo Puyo, because both are small, powerful and have a red gem on the forehead.
Staraptor - Emoraptor, a pun between Raptor, Egoraptor and the fact Staraptor's single bang makes it look emo.
Honchkrow - Sir Raven, after the Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy character.
Rampardos - Paneumo, after the unlicensed name argentine (retired) footballer Martín Palermo used to have in Pro Evolution Soccer. Palermo had a renowned header.
Gligar - Higuita, after René Higuita, retired colombian goalkeeper, best known for his scorpion kick against england.
Azumarill - Babs, after Babs Bunny from Tiny Toons. Because if, had I got a male with Huge Power, I'd have named him Buster.
Mamoswine - Lacerda. "The female pig" in Spanish, except without spaces.
Chatot - Charap, as it's the one you get via trade in Eterna City.
Quagsire - Upa, after how Wooper's pronounciation sounds in Spanish.
Octillery - Opus Tank, after the Epsilon Headquarters main tank in Mental Omega. It also sounds like Okutank, Octillery's japanese name.
Jirachi - Lotería. "Lottery" in Spanish, given its wish theme.
Magnezone - Maxwell, after James Clerk Maxwell.
Noctowl - Siegfried, after the European Alliance hero from Mental Omega, who's the leading expert in time technology.
Garchomp - Melo. Concatenate it with "Garchomp" and you get something that sounds a little dirty here in Argentina.
Crobat - Barbara, after Batgirl.
Gastrodon - Izquierdoz, after Carlos Izquierdos, a reliable but slow argentine defender.
Pelipper - Inolvidable, because of a meme related to Spanish youtuber RanguGamer, where many of his Pokémon's memories in ORAS involved a Wingull.
Toxicroak - Ed, after the character from Ed, Edd 'n Eddy because his run and Croagunk's walks are similar.
Floatzel - Soy la, after I.M. Weasel's name in the Latin American Spanish's dub.
Gengar - Hary Pottr, after the fact that, in the infamous fan fiction Im a Wisserd, Harry dies and ends up as a ghost.
Mothim - NOPOL, after a fictional product meant to kill feed moths in a Les Luthiers play.
Togekiss - Lionheart, after the stolen tech Allied aircraft in Mental Omega, whose bombardments disable enemy vehicles, just like Togekiss can with Air Slash.
Drifblim - COMER NIÑOS, after the trendy topic RanguGamer picked in his Emerald playthrough. And it fits with this evolutionary line.
Lickilicky - Lengüis, after the Latin American Spanish name for Tonguey, the Chosen One's talking tongue from Kung Pow! Enter the Fist.
Beautifly - Mantecavolar. A deliberately bad Spanish translation of butterfly.
Manaphy - Ocean Prince, after the character with the same name from Puyo Puyo.
Clefable - Selenita ("selenite") because of its relation to the moon. Also a reference to a hilariously bad episode of La Rosa de Guadalupe, where a drug dealer manipulates children into trafficking drugs through a videogame, under the nickname Selenita.
Heracross - Cornamenta because it has a horn and it's female. Couldn't think of anything better.
Machamp - Bane, after the Batman character.
Bronzong - HELL BELL, after the Bronzong from the creepypasta.
Golduck - Daisy, after the female Disney duck.
Steelix - Spock, because it's "long and prosper".
Empoleon - Pucci, after Carlos López Puccio, a member of Les Luthiers. In a play, he's mistaken for a penguin.
Altaria - Bluey. From an old story I once wrote but I lost, where a Swablu had that nickname.
Drapion - Harumi, after the deceased wife of Scorpion from Mortal Kombat.
Golem - Deck, after argentine basketball player Gabriel Deck, nicknamed "Turtle".
Bibarel - Daggett, after the Angry Beavers character.
Mew - Zapato ("Shoe"), after Matt Engarde's cat from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All.
Roserade - B`loody Mary, after "Hermione" from My Immortal.
Dialga - Paradox, after the Paradox Engine from Mental Omega, which can freeze time.
Weavile - Manostijeras, after Edward Scissorhands's Spanish name.
Azelf - Carby, after Carbuncle from Puyo Puyo, because both are small, powerful and have a red gem on the forehead.
Staraptor - Emoraptor, a pun between Raptor, Egoraptor and the fact Staraptor's single bang makes it look emo.
Honchkrow - Sir Raven, after the Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy character.
Rampardos - Paneumo, after the unlicensed name argentine (retired) footballer Martín Palermo used to have in Pro Evolution Soccer. Palermo had a renowned header.
Gligar - Higuita, after René Higuita, retired colombian goalkeeper, best known for his scorpion kick against england.
Azumarill - Babs, after Babs Bunny from Tiny Toons. Because if, had I got a male with Huge Power, I'd have named him Buster.
Mamoswine - Lacerda. "The female pig" in Spanish, except without spaces.
Flying - 12
Water - 9
Ground - 7
Steel - 7
Normal - 5
Poison - 5
Psychic - 4
Dark - 3
Dragon - 3
Fighting - 3
Bug - 3
Fairy - 3
Electric - 2
Rock - 2
Ice - 2
Ghost - 2
Grass - 1
Fire - 0
Water - 9
Ground - 7
Steel - 7
Normal - 5
Poison - 5
Psychic - 4
Dark - 3
Dragon - 3
Fighting - 3
Bug - 3
Fairy - 3
Electric - 2
Rock - 2
Ice - 2
Ghost - 2
Grass - 1
Fire - 0
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Honestly, when it comes to a game like this, you can just base a tierlist off
- do i have to get out of the way to get this poke
- does this poke need me to actually dedicate TMs to it to do something
- can i throw this poke in slot 1 and win
When exp share is factored in, realistically a pokemon is good if it's the one that can do the carrying (aka, do most of the fights on its own without needing to swap ever).
If a pokemon needs to be carried in the team for a while until it reaches a point where it can "lead", or needs you to go out of your way to make his moveset usable, it isnt.
...with the fact you can actually buy very strong TMs, honestly, probably the only real question is if you can get there or not with it, and if it has actually any use in beating E4 or not.
I think the old DP tier list mostly already accounted for the casino TMs so that probably simplify things anyway
I didn't get the game so it's weird that I'm even posting here but I just wanted to say that some of your nicknames are great, in particular Mothim's as a fellow Les Luthiers fan (and Empoleon's too but I hadn't even realized before I read the explanation, lol).
Also s/o to the Superclásico between Pampas and Patagonia. Those were the days.
I knew that Maxwell was a scientist (mostly due to how Nvidia are naming their architectures), but I had to google what his contributions were.
I must say that is a very fitting name for Magnezone.
Often when I make a global room and my friend joins by code, they won't show up. They have to exit out and rejoin for it to work. Been having this issue in at least 50% of all the lobbies I make. We triple-check the code every time but sometimes it just won't work. They won't show up in the room unless they leave and rejoin. Anyone else having this issue?
Yeah, link codes in this game kinda suck. I remember trying to join a room with a friend so we could trade to evolve my Electabuzz and despite us both using the same link code multiple times, we just didn't get matched with each other for about 10 minutes. I dunno if this is a result of the online being unfinished or if the netcode is really just gonna be this bad forever, but that's certainly how it is right now.
Tangela/Tangrowth is only available in the post-game underground.
I miss the cloning already :(
It was fun being able to build competitive Pokemon easily. Now its just a game as boring as the original D/P
It was fun being able to build competitive Pokemon easily. Now its just a game as boring as the original D/P