Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

[Hidious]

Eevee (Sylveon)- Tier A

Availability: You can find eevee on route 10 as an uncommon in the yellow flowers. It is strongly recommended you catch a lvl 19. The reason is that Sylveon learns draining kiss at lvl 20 which is the only fairy type damaging move you get until level 37 when you get moonblast. Evolving eevee into sylveon is not too time consuming, nor difficult. All you have to do is get it's affection level in pokemon amie to 2 stars and level it up while having a fairy type move. A level 19 eevee will have baby doll eyes so it makes this task very easy. Catch a lvl 19 eevee, play games with it via pokemon amie, and then grow it 1 level, and you have a sylveon with draining kiss.

Movepool: Sylveon's movepool is very shallow during early and midgame. It doesn't really inherit any decent moves from eevee besides refresh and the lol quick attack (priority doesn't mean jack squat if you have no attack) Draining kiss is going to be pretty much your go-to move for damage until you learn moonblast at level 37. However, due to sylveon's high SPA, HP and SPD, draining kiss makes it a good tank in the meantime. Sylveon's movepool really is not impressive even when you have access to most of the tm's. It gets calm mind for boosting (Anistar City Gym), but its pretty much stuck with using shadow ball (Terminus Cave), psyshock (Victory Road), and hidden power ground (Anister City) as other coverage options. Sylveon's movepool is definitely its biggest weakness. Draining kiss is nice to have early in the game, but it's low BP and PP make sylveon a difficult pokemon to grind through trainers for most of the game. Sylveon's power really doesn't shine until it gets its 95 BP Moonblast, which hits all but Poison, Steel, and Fire for at least neutral damage. If you are lucky and can get HP Ground, the fairy/ground coverage hits almost every pokemon in the game for neutral damage.

Typing: Pure Fairy typing is excellent defensively, and above-average offensively. Sylveon is only hit super effectively by the quite rare steel and poison moves. It also possesses possibly the best immunity in the game which is dragon immunity. It also has useful resistances to fighting, dark, and bug. On the offensive side, fairy is super-effective against dragon, dark, and fighting. It is resisted by poison, steel, and fire.

Stats: Sylveon's base stats are 95/65/65/110/130/60. Above average HP and excellent SPD allows it to take a lot of special hits. Its special attack is very good and can dish out a very powerful stab moonblast. However, its defense is frail and it won't outspeed much.

Major Battles: Because of its low speed, it has a more difficult time sweeping, but it has a type advantage in many major battles.

Grant: Sweeps easily. Tyrunt is destroyed by draining kiss and Amaura is just too weak to beat anything decent that is neutral.

Korrina: Sweeps easily

Ramos: Probably best to sit this one out, but if you must, jumpluff and gogoat are beatable.

Clemont: You can take out emolga and heliolisk, but stay away from magneton.

Valerie: You might be able to brute force mawile. You can take hits from the frail Mr. Mime. You can take out Sylveon at equal level. Not a sweep, but a major player

Olympia: Sylveon will struggle to sweep this without shadow ball or lots of potions. (You can't get SB until terminus cave.) It can take out either of her three pokemon, but not all of them!

Wulfric: Abomasnow and cryoagonal aren't the best matchups for sylveon due to high physical damage and high SpD, respectively. Sylveon should destroy a weak SpD Avalugg.

Team Flare: Mixed batch here. Sylveon will do well against the dark types, and struggle against the poison types.

Malva: Major player with HP ground/water. Not great matchups without.

Wikstrom: Sit this one out if you lack HP ground/fire. Can be a minor player if you have either.

Drasna: Easy Sweep

Siebold: Major player, stay away from gyarados and barbaracle.

Diantha: Major player, Hawlucha can hit you hard, but you OHKO. Tyrantrum and Goodra are easy ko's. Everything else is beatable depending on level/moveset.

Additional Comments: I can't really say it is a super-solid A, because of its shallow movepool early on, but I think the good matchups you get early on and Sylveon's excellent stats compensate for that.

 

[stage7_4]

Heliolisk: - B Tier
Availability: Early-mid, route 9 (step on with Rhyhorn)
Stats:
Helioptile: 44/38/33/61/43/70
Heliolisk: 62/55/52/109/94/109

While not the 120/120 Sp.A and Speed stats we thought, Heliolisk is a fast special attacker with paper mache defenses (although mine had a Sp.Def lowering nature, so I might be biased). The Sun Stone comes before the third gym if you know where to look (or grind for one in Super Training but that goes against efficiency), so he's an early evolver.

Typing: Electric/Normal with a water immunity and a fire weakness if you get dry skin. This screams anti-metagame, but doesn't translate well to in-game (lack of ghosts and water but a lot of fighting types). Still, he gets by.

Movepool: Shallow. All electric by level up. But you do get surf mid-game and dark pulse/grass knot/focus blast much later, so Heliolisk has just enough to work with but still runs into trouble with grass types (he really needs tri-attack/hyper voice). With the thunderbolt TM, the only move worth waiting to evolve for is Parabolic Charge.

Major Battles:
Grant - Average. You are faster and have parabolic charge, but Helioptile's stats aren't that swell.
Korrina - Risky. You can K.O. Hawlucha before it does anything, and might do the same to the rest. But one unlucky hit and you're gone.
Ramos - Poor, except for Jumpluff. Heliolisk can't do anything to grass types.
Clemont - Average. You can surf to victory and none of his team can really stop you.
Valerie - Average. You'll be faster than her whole team, but will have to muscle through on thunderbolt.
Olympia - Good. Two of hers are weak to thunderbolt, and the last is just weak.
Wulfric - Below average. Cyrogonal and Abomasnow will wall you, but Avalugg isn't very strong in sp. def. Focus blast can help, but it's better to use another pokemon.

Team Flare - If you have dry skin, he does average. If you don't, he does above average. Lysandre is odd, he does well on his best 'mons but can't handle Mienshao. Pyroar can be surfed to death with or without dry skin.

Rival - Above average, except if she's got Chesnaught. Then just average.

Malva - Sweeps without dry skin, and maybe also with it (it's just risky).
Wikstrom - Above average. Nothing can really handle thunderbolt and you'll outspeed Aegislash when it drops its defenses.
Dransa - Below Average. Noivern is too fast to T-bolt, so you can only reliably handle Altaria.
Seibold - Sweeps with either ability (dry skin just makes it comical).
Diantha - Below average. Gourgeist can be dark pulsed and Tyrantrum/Aurorus/Hawlucha t-bolted, but Goodra and Gardevoir will wall you for all time.

Additional Comments: Early evolution and above average offensive stats, but lack of coverage against bosses (but no real standout failures either). With a little more bulk or a little more speed/sp.attack he would be A, but he's a B... barely.

 

[Goldenratt]

This is my first real contribution to the Smogon Forums, but I've been lurking for a few years so hopefully this is worthwhile.

Bagon/Shelgon/Salamence - A

Availability: Route 8 - I'd assume relatively rare. The first one I encountered and caught was female adamant 10 minutes in, so I don't have a good gauge.

Stats:
45/75/60/40/30/50
65/95/100/60/50/50
95/135/80/110/80/100
It's Salamence guys. Obviously at his final stage he has incredible attack power and enough speed to abuse it. He has decent defenses as well that allow him to take some hits.

Typing: Dragon/Flying has Rock, Dragon and Fairy 2x weaknesses and a glaring 4x to ice. That being said he also has 5 resistances and one immunity. Dragon received a slight nerf with the addition of Fairy, but in my experience I just muscled through with Ember/Flamethrower if I had too.

Movepool: Shelgon picks up Zen Headbutt at level 37 which ends up working very effectively with the amount of Fighting Types in the game until 'mence gets Fly for STAB. Other than that, Flamethrower/Dragon Claw provide great coverage. Those are late moves, either TMs or a leve l61 learn. Up until that point he relies mainly on Headbutt/Zen Headbutt for damage. He can also learn Strength and Rock Smash for TMs (with the obvious Fly).

Major Battles:
Grant: Only real attacks are headbutt and Ember, which are non-stab and both resisted. I'd keep away.

Korrina: If you somehow have Zen Headbutt by now, I'd wager he could tear through the gym. If not, Shelgon's physical bulk shouls till be of use if you lack better options.

Ramos: Zen Headbutt for Victrebell if you have it, if not Ember doesn't really do enough damage to merit use.

Clemont: Neutral coverage. Obviously better options.

Valerie: Just keep away.

Olympia: If you have Crunch, it can solo the gym. Even Bite is usefull.

Wulfric: If you got Flamethrower and a mixed set, it might be viable. I'd keep away though.

Team Flare: Use Fly for Scraggy and anything that doesn't resist it. Zen headbutt for Poisons.

Malva: I'd assume Earthquake could do some work here. I used Greninja though.

Wikstrom: Only use with flamethrower.

Drasna: Sweeps it. Noivern outsped and did about 50% damage with Dragon Pulse. This is negligible.

Siebold: Neutral with Dragon Claw.

Diantha: Can beat Goodra and Tyrantrum. The reset depends on Moveset. I'd keep away from Gardevoir though.

Additional Comments: Bagon and Shelgon seemed to lag behind for awhile, level wise. Bagon's stats are pretty low through the 20s where most things have evolved at least once. So there is some babying there. By the time he hit's 30 though, Shelgon receives pretty good physical bulk. With an Eviolite and Zen Headbutt Shelgon becomes an effective option for the many fighting types you encounter in the region. Once he evolves into Salamence he can tear through most things that don't resist Fly with ease due to STAB and his excellent attack stat. Late game he just turns into "pick the coverage move and watch the health go away."
I say A because his babying is relatively minimal (I had Shelgon at the 4th gym and got Bagon at the 2nd) and he serves as a bulky mon as Eviolite Shelgon and an absolute powerhouse as Salamence. Downsides are movepool until late game and some babying.

 

[DHR-107]

Eevee (Sylveon)- Tier A

Additional Comments: I can't really say it is a super-solid A, because of its shallow movepool early on, but I think the good matchups you get early on and Sylveon's excellent stats compensate for that.

I'm kinda confused how this reads as mostly negatives and then you give it A tier... From the sounds of this it should be B or less. Limited movepool limited offensive options etc... I haven't used it so I can't say but I don't think its worth A tier with what you've said.

Bagon I could see dropping to B purely because its pretty weak in its first stage, but still better than some other stuff. Lv 50 is very late to unlock its real power, but Eviolite Shelgon seems like a solid mon with its fairly good defences.

Im pretty happy with my Heliolisk so far (Parabolic Charge + Evolve seems like the best way to use it). Toxicroak is still relatively weak (I'm thinkin C atm cause it really sucks for a very long time until Toxicroak). Carbink has been surprisingly solid in terms of defence and damage output in conjunction with Rocky Helmet (and Clear Body is fantastic). Binacle is taking a lot of babying now (its mid 30's) and I think it evolves soon D: Golett and Delphox are still the powerhouses of my team right now. Iron Fist + Power-Up Punch and Shadow Punch is a really good combo with Golett's natural good attack and bulk.

 

[Gokuzbu]

Skiddo C

-Availability: Route 5 very early in the game

-Typing: Grass. Not the best in the world but could be useful if you picked the Fire starter. Lots of weaknesses.

-Stats: Skiddo is fairly weak, this is bad as it evolves at level 32. Gogoat however has great attack and awesome bulk, though its pretty slow which is a shame.

-Movepool: Skiddo will rely on Razor Leaf and Leach Seed for quite a while. It gets Bulldoze at 26 for decent coverage. Seed Bomb at level 30 is very strong. However that is pretty much it until level 60 when it gets Earthquake, which is helpful against the elite 4. It learns Brick Break by TM but I found it didn't hit hard enough.

-Major Battles: Rock Gym- Aurorus will slaughter Skiddo and Tyrunt is neutral to grass so you won't hit very hard
Fighting Gym- If you are evolved you can get some nice offence in but watch out for Hawlucha.
Grass Gym- Useless here
Electric Gym- The resist to Electric helps. You can sweep with Bulldoze.
Fairy Gym- I didn't use it here but I imagine Gogoat won't do a whole lot.
Psychic Gym- Slowking gets destroyed but the other 2 will hurt you.
Ice Gym- Avoid!

Elite 4- Water is swept and you can Earthquake the Steel one for massive damage. Avoid Fire and Dragon. Most of Dianthas team resists Grass so you won't do much.

-Other: Sap Sipper is good on paper but it never actually activated throughout the game.

Skiddo is weak, and you'll be relying on Seed Bomb and Bulldoze for most of the game. Its a usable pokemon but not the best.

 

[Hidious]

I'm kinda confused how this reads as mostly negatives and then you give it A tier... From the sounds of this it should be B or less. Limited movepool limited offensive options etc... I haven't used it so I can't say but I don't think its worth A tier with what you've said.

Bagon I could see dropping to B purely because its pretty weak in its first stage, but still better than some other stuff. Lv 50 is very late to unlock its real power, but Eviolite Shelgon seems like a solid mon with its fairly good defences.

Im pretty happy with my Heliolisk so far (Parabolic Charge + Evolve seems like the best way to use it). Toxicroak is still relatively weak (I'm thinkin C atm cause it really sucks for a very long time until Toxicroak). Carbink has been surprisingly solid in terms of defence and damage output in conjunction with Rocky Helmet (and Clear Body is fantastic). Binacle is taking a lot of babying now (its mid 30's) and I think it evolves soon D: Golett and Delphox are still the powerhouses of my team right now. Iron Fist + Power-Up Punch and Shadow Punch is a really good combo with Golett's natural good attack and bulk.

I don't think it was mostly negatives. Yeah, Sylveon's movepool is not great, but that should not disqualify it from being Tier A. It's strengths (typing, stats, availability) outweigh its major flaw enough to allow it to be a Tier A in game. It does a fabulous job of doing what it is supposed to do: take hits and hit back hard. It also has great type synergy with many of the starters, especially Fennekin, making a very balanced team early on.

 

[magickmissile]

View attachment 2567
Heliolisk: - B Tier
Availability: Early-mid, route 9 (step on with Rhyhorn)
Stats:
Helioptile: 44/38/33/61/43/70
Heliolisk: 62/55/52/109/94/109

While not the 120/120 Sp.A and Speed stats we thought, Heliolisk is a fast special attacker with paper mache defenses (although mine had a Sp.Def lowering nature, so I might be biased). The Sun Stone comes before the third gym if you know where to look (or grind for one in Super Training but that goes against efficiency), so he's an early evolver.

Typing: Electric/Normal with a water immunity and a fire weakness if you get dry skin. This screams anti-metagame, but doesn't translate well to in-game (lack of ghosts and water but a lot of fighting types). Still, he gets by.

Movepool: Shallow. All electric by level up. But you do get surf mid-game and dark pulse/grass knot much later, so Heliolisk has just enough to work with but still runs into trouble with grass types (he really needs tri-attack/hyper voice). With the thunderbolt TM, the only move worth waiting to evolve for is Parabolic Charge.

Major Battles:
Grant - Average. You are faster and have parabolic charge, but Helioptile's stats aren't that swell.
Korrina - Risky. You can K.O. Hawlucha before it does anything, and might do the same to the rest. But one unlucky hit and you're gone.
Ramos - Poor, except for Jumpluff. Heliolisk can't do anything to grass types.
Clemont - Average. You can surf to victory and none of his team can really stop you.
Valerie - Average. You'll be faster than her whole team, but will have to muscle through on thunderbolt.
Olympia - Good. Two of hers are weak to thunderbolt, and the last is just weak.
Wulfric - Poor. Cyrogonal and Abomasnow will wall you, but Avalugg isn't very strong in sp. def.

Team Flare - If you have dry skin, he does average. If you don't, he does above average. Lysandre is odd, he does well on his best 'mons but can't handle Mienshao. Pyroar can be surfed to death with or without dry skin.

Rival - Above average, except if she's got Chesnaught. Then just average.

Malva - Sweeps without dry skin, and maybe also with it (it's just risky).
Wikstrom - Above average. Nothing can really handle thunderbolt and you'll outspeed Aegislash when it drops its defenses.
Dransa - Below Average. Noivern is too fast to T-bolt, so you can only reliably handle Altaria.
Seibold - Sweeps with either ability (dry skin just makes it comical).
Diantha - Below average. Gourgeist can be dark pulsed and Tyrantrum/Aurorus/Hawlucha t-bolted, but Goodra and Gardevoir will wall you for all time.

Additional Comments: Early evolution and above average offensive stats, but lack of coverage against bosses (but no real standout failures either). With a little more bulk or a little more speed/sp.attack he would be A, but he's a B... barely.

Not enough to move him up a tier, but Heliolisk also gets Focus Blast, which provides nice coverage and good power (and atrocious accuracy). It gives him something else for the Ice gym and Team Flare's Dark types.

 

[Diana]

Clauncher: C Tier
Availability: Once you get the Good Rod, catchable in Cyllage City. Not too hard to find, but requires a bit of backtracking and is a little under-leveled.
Stats: Speed is a bit low but Clawitzer hits really hard on the special side, and while not incredibly bulky, it can take neutral hits well enough.
Typing: Water is a common typing, but it's still quite solid. Only two weaknesses and hits three decently common types hard, though it struggles to hit some of the stronger Dragon-types later.
Movepool: This is where Clawitzer shines. It should be evolved by the time you reach the move relearner, and it can use Heart Scales to get Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, and Dark Pulse, all boosted by Mega Launcher. Using Thief on Luvdisc is easy to do if an extra Heart Scale or two is needed, though Clawitzer can easily get by without all three moves. It gets Surf, Water Pulse, and Ice Beam on top of those three, as well as Waterfall if Clawitzer has an extra slot for HM use.
Major Battles:
Ramos: Not going to do a thing here.
Clemont: Not much here either, though it could probably Surf Magneton in a pinch.
Valerie: Pretty neutral. They have high Special Defense outside of Mawile (who Clauncher should be able to handle pretty easily), but that type is pretty neutral and I actually had a pretty similarly leveled Clawitzer take on Mr. Mime and win.
Olympia: Clawitzer has Mega Launcher Dark Pulse. It does well here.
Lysandre: I wouldn't have it face Medicham, but it can hold up against Honchkrow. It takes out Pyroar nicely and can Aura Sphere Mega Gyarados while resisting its Water-type moves.
Wulfric: Interesting match here, but since you get EVs for battling ingame opponents, Clawitzer is likely faster than Abomasnow and should be able to Aura Sphere it. Cryogonal might be scariest but Clawitzer can take a Freeze Dry and KO back, and Avalugg isn't even a problem with how slow and specially frail it is. Clawitzer has the advantage here despite Freeze Dry.
Malva: You have Surf. You'll win.
Wikstrom: Klefki isn't weak to you but can't do much back. Scizor can do a good bit back but hates taking Surf. Aegislash gets smashed by Dark Pulse. Probopass needs to be looked out for, as it has both Sturdy and Discharge. A timely paralysis could ruin the sweep.
Drasna: It probably won't sweep due to the fast, strong Dragon-types. Hurricane from Noivern hurts. That being said, it can likely take out a few members nicely with Dragon Pulse or Ice Beam, especially Altaria and Druddigon.
Siebold: Meh. I wouldn't play with neutral non-STAB moves overall, but Clawitzer still hits Starmie with Dark Pulse and Barbaracle with Aura Sphere, for what it's worth.
Diantha (I can dream, right?): Interesting team to face. Wouldn't try it against Hawlucha unless I didn't have anything better, though Ice Beam can get it. Aura Sphere hits Tyrantrum and Aurorus. Gourgeist can be hit by Ice Beam or Dark Pulse, but it's risky. Goodra's risky too despite the Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse weaknesses, due to its ridiculous Special Defense. Gardevoir shouldn't be messed with.
Additional Comments: Clawitzer is a mixed bag, but I feel like the positive outweigh the negatives. It's going to smash through things that it can hit super effectively with that high Special Attack and nice ability. Just remember that it can't fit all of its moves on a set: It has to go without one of Ice Beam, Dragon Pulse, Aura Sphere, or Dark Pulse, likely one of the first two. It still has incredible coverage and very good power and is a good Water-type choice despite the setbacks of mediocre Speed and a bit of babying early.

Edit: You can actually find three Heart Scales on the ground not far from where you first get Clauncher. Luvdisc isn't needed unless you're using Heart Scales with something else, and if you are, Luvdisc is 100% appearance rate with an Old Rod and has a 50% chance of holding a Heart Scale.

 

[Ondore]

I don't know if this helps Sylveon or hurts it, but its evolution method means it's going to get boosted experience, so it's going to grow 20% faster than a standard Pokemon in the same experience curve.

 

[stage7_4]

Not enough to move him up a tier, but Heliolisk also gets Focus Blast, which provides nice coverage and good power (and atrocious accuracy). It gives him something else for the Ice gym and Team Flare's Dark types.

Thanks for bringing that up, I'll edit it in.

 

[hard]

In Reply to the Nidoking rating:
It is definitely higher then B Tier at least in Y where Nidorino is common. I can only see B Tier in X where you might have to train Nidoran from Level 11.
Moonstone is obtained in the beginning of Reflection Cave.
Hone Claws can help to solo major fights, but is not necessary against ordinary trainers.
Thus Korrina is easily swept without taking too much damage with only Return or Strength after Hone Claws.
The game gives you a lot of Speed EVs so you should outspeed Mr Mime against Valerie and OHKO with even Return.

I had great results with Vileplume especially in the early game, I might rate it later so just some things to consider:
Sweet Scent for easy Horde encounters if looking for specific Pokemon or easy Leveling
Acid for destroying those hordes pretty easily most of the time, which leads to surprisingly fast level up from Oddishs 10 to 23 where it gets Vile...Gloom.
Gloom can be evolved as soon as you reach Route 8 with the LeafStone you get there.
Grant is easily taken care of because you outmuscle with that much bulk and the highest attack stat you will likely have at this point.
Resists the next three Gyms major stabs.
Can chip away with Mega Drain against Korrina and Venoshock against Hawlucha because Fling Press is neutral.
Gets Black Sludge after this, not needing the Leftovers you picked up on Route 12.
Has a hard time against Jumpluff but won this with Venoshock and that sexy bulk, the Rest of Ramos team was easy.
Could get around Emolga and help against Magneton with Sleep Powder, Helioptile is easy for any resisting Pokemon.
Afterwards it gets less useful against Gym Trainers, but stays a useful supporter for catching purposes or slow Sleep Powders for safe switching or even setup against major opponents.
I was to lazy to check where Sunny Day is and Solarbeam is a detour so don't want it. Might be cool as a partner for Mega Charizard X with Drought giving you a surprisingly speedy Chorophyll sweeper(in game!).
To sum it up, although my Vileplume had low IVs it performs very nicely in the time where superior options are rare and gets worse once you get the better fully evolved Pokemon, but is still a major support star.
I think I will do a proper B nomination once I complete the game.

 

[Animorph]

Honedge -> Doublade -> Aegislash -> A-Tier

Availability: Rare in Route 6.

Stats: Aegislash can functional well as a physical attacker and as a wall - its ability lets it do both.

Typing: Steel/Ghost is a unique typing, with 3 immunities and 4 weaknesses. Personally, I like it.

Movepool: Varies wildly from the downright horrid to absolutely amazing. Honedge starts off with Pursuit, Fury Cutter, Swords Dance, and Metal Sound - which is disgusting and takes forever to KO. But as it evolves, it gets better moves (Shadow Sneak, Iron Head, and Sacred Sword are a few examples). Aegislash gets its signature move King's Shield via move Tutor, also.

Major Battles:

Gym Battles
Grant - Risky. Move aren't great, but resits everything Grant can throw at it, minus Tyrunt's bite.
Korrina - Should be able to sweep easily, because it takes no damage from most of the attacks.
Ramos - At this point, Honedge might have Aerial Ace, so should sweep through the team.
Clemont - I'd recommend keeping it away, because it doesn't tank the hits too well.
Valerie - Resists attacks - may or may not have steel type attacks to KO back with.
Olympia - Pretty awesome - Swords Dance once and Shadow Sneak to victory.
Wulfric - Meh. Keep this away from, Avalugg, because it tanks physical hits like a boss.

Elite Four & Champion

Malva - Keep away - weak to fire types.
Wikstrom - 50/50 shot of KO'ing oppsing Aegislash
Drasna - Can easily sweep due to steel typing.
Siebold - There are better pokemon for the job.
Diantha - Must watch out for Tyrantrum and Gourgeist - can easily sweep the rest of the team, recommended lead.


Team Flare

50/50 here - will either get KO'd to dark and fire attacks, or wall Toxicroak and Swalot to hell and back (be wary of Swalot's EQ, though).

Rival

Must watch out for Mega Absol and Delphox - at least decent against everything else.

Additional Comments: What I loved about Aegislash was his ability - Stance Change. It came in handy so often because it can tank a hit and follow up with a super powerful attacks (be it neutral or SE), then go back to shield forme again. It works amazingly well.

 

[Harle]

Cloyster: B Tier.

Availability: Route 8 with the Good Rod. Fly becomes available fairly soon after getting the Good Rod, so you don't really need to back track to get Shellder. Just Fly to Cyllage City, take a couple of steps, fish, Shellder. It's a little underleveled, but I actually caught Shellder, Skrelp, and Wailmer all at the same time and used the three of them alone as my team on Route 13 (the first new route after catching him). Shellder was the only one that could fight at all because he hit everything on the route super effectively. He was still fragile of course, being low level, but he caught up way faster than the others could. Shellder's level is much less of a hindrance than it seems at first.
Typing: This is really Cloyster's only major weak point and a large part of why I would put him in B (or A, possibly). There are a ton of Fighting types in this game, and while his high defense lets him usually survive at least one (occasionally two or three) hits from them, I still found myself having to switch him out every so often. He can't just stay in and kill everything. By in-game standards Cloyster was fast enough to strike first more often than not, so he was able to kill before being killed when he didn't have the type advantage a lot of the time.
Stats: His HP and Sp.Def are low as always, but he doesn't really need to rely on them too much. Lead with Cloyster or bring him in at the right moment (which is pretty easy to come by in this game) and his Icicle Spear will 2HKO almost anything thanks in part to his good Atk and Def. His lower stats, however, along with his typing, are the main reason why he's a better team player than a soloist. He's not just relying on his team though, as your other Pokemon will appreciate being able to throw a Cloyster at a physical opponent just as much as Cloyster appreciates help on the Special side. Side note: Throw a Rocky Helmet on him for some exceptionally satisfying switch-ins, heh...
Movepool: Almost irrelevant. He comes with Icicle Spear and (assuming you catch the right one) Skill Link. This will be what he does 90% of the time. If he stays a Shellder for most of the game, he'll have plenty of moves to choose from that you'll never ever need. Not even Shell Smash (which comes so late you'll only make use of it post-game). Evolve him as soon as possible, teach him Surf for some variety, and he's set. Cloyster can learn Poison Jab (much to my delight), which I had some success with. Not only does it let him hit the plethora of fairies pretty hard, but on Pokemon that he can't beat as quickly, poison is rather helpful.
Major Battles:
-Elite Four: Cloyster is good. Funnily enough, he struggled the most with Siebold, whose Clawitzer blew him to bits. It's not a good match for Cloyster. He can take Drasna's entire team by himself. Noivern is fast enough to OHKO him, but mine survived and OHKO'd with Icicle Spear. Depending on your Cloyster's stats, he may or may not lose to Noivern. Dragalge, Druddigon, and especially Altaria don't stand a chance. Malva's Talonflame and Torkoal are Cloyster food, but Chandelure and Pyroar can be problematic. He's passable against Wikstrom.

-Champion: Cloyster is great for Gourgiest, Hawlucha, and Tyrantrum. He can take out Goodra, but Goodra can take him out as well. It would be best to avoid Aurorus and Gardevoir (though, it was pretty funny watching Cloyster take almost no damage at all from MegaGardevoir's thunderbolts after Pyroar Noble Roared it to oblivion).

-Gym Leaders: Cloyster is pretty even with gyms. Most of the time he can take out something, but there isn't one gym where he destroys everything.
-Ramos: No problems here, even with a grass weakness. He won't be in this battle though unless you chose to run back to Route 8 instead of waiting for Fly.
-Clemont: Cloyster dies.
-Valerie: Cloyster can take Mawile and does well enough against Mr. Mime, but Sylveon spams Dazzling Gleam, so he'll lose.
-Olympia: He's not completely useless here, but he doesn't excel either. Cloyster is at a disadvantage against special attackers, but he can hit hard if he gets the chance.
-Wulfric: Abomasnow beats Cloyster. Cryogonal and Cloyster are pretty even. Avalugg is kind of easy; Cloyster won't be OHKOing it, but he's not likely to lose. Still, Avalugg will boost its stats frequently, so it's best left for someone who can kill it quickly.

-Lysandre: Murkrow/Honchkrow don't stand a chance, but Cloyster won't be doing much to the rest of his team.

-Team Flare: Houndooms, Liepards, Swalots, Golbat/Crobats (especially) are no problem for Cloyster. Scrafty can be a pain.

Other: Skill Link makes or breaks Cloyster. Without it you'll have to much weaker moves instead of having his most powerful move as soon as you get him. Like I said before, he's underleveled at first, but he's much easier to level up than the other fish that can be caught at the same time as him.

 

[Raikaria]

Mantyke/Mantine: - C Tier
Availability: Starter
Stats:
Mantyke: 45/20/50/60/120/50
Mantine: 65/40/70/80/140/70

Mantine is a specially-based wall

Typing: Flying/Water is a very strong typing on both the offensive and defensive front; with only two weaknesses [Although one is a x4]. Flying and Water have very strong offensive coverage; as no single type resists both [Although pokemon such as Lanturn can]

Movepool:
Mantine's movepool isn't especially large; however; when you obtain it; you will have Surf; and Rain Dance is accessible; which Mantine can easily set up with it's bulk. Air Slash comes at Level 36; not too long after obtaining Mantine; and you can add Ice Beam onto the moveset after Wulfric.

There is not much outside of these moves for Mantine; Signal Beam is an option but is largely outdone in terms of coverage; unless you ant to hit Psychic and Dark types with a Mantine.

Major Battles:
Ramos - If you have Air Slash you're overleveled by a bit [Although with the Badlands right next to the Gym it is certainly an option]. If you've grinded for Air Slash you can sweep the gym.
Clemont - Stay away; 140 sp.def dosen't have you from x4 effective attacks.
Valerie - Strong. Mantine's massive special bulk allows it to wall Valerie's team; and it can proceed to win in attrition with Rain Danced Surfs.
Olympia - See Valerie, although Slowking is an issue.
Wulfric - Beats Abomasnow and Avalug. Cyrongal is an issue unless Rain Dance is up.

Team Flare - Runs riot through them, with the xception of Lysandre's Gyarados and the Electrike line.

Rival - OHKO's Chesnaught; beats Delphox and can do well against Greninja. Even matchups with everything else bar Jolteon; and OHKO's Altaria with Ice Beam.

Malva - Rain Dance; sweep.
Wikstrom - Can deal heavy damage with Rain Danced Surfs
Dransa - Ice Beam can OHKO the Dragon/Flying types; and it is entirely possible to set up Rain Dance on Altaria to outspeed Noivern.
Seibold - Does well against Clauncher.
Diantha - Beats Hawlucha and Goltergheist. Goodra is a tough fight but winnable. Aurorus is OHKO or be OHKO'ed by Thunder [Especially since you will have rain up]. Loses to Tyrantrum and M.Gardevoir.

Additional Comments:

To evolve into Mantine you require a Remoraid in your party on level-up, meaning an additional capture.

Mantine has advantages over other water-types in the fact that it has Swift Swim; good early/mid game stats; Flying STAB to deal with Grass-types; early avaliabilty; and the fact it has the bulk to easily use Rain Dance.

Mantine is very effective at clearing hordes with Surf; as with all specially attacking water types.

Being caught as a baby pokemon; Mantyke is guaranteed to have at least 3 perfect IV's. This makes Mantine significantly stronger than one might expect in-game.

Mantine is Water Absorb is inferior; and would be D or even E Tier. Swift Swim allows Mantine to sweep trainers in-game.

 

[JSND]

Haunter- A tier
First, before you read this, you should know that the best way to use Haunter is to get one from the GTS. Then, you can have it already evolve and with boosted exp to boot! Regardless, if you evolve him before the sixth gym he is ridiculously overpowered, with his megastone available in Laverre City. He is also caught only one level away from learning Shadow Ball, and can be given Venoshock, and later Sludge Bomb, by TM. As for matchups, he destroys Valerie with Venoshock, and although risky against Olympia, he is mostly a good choice. The Elite 4 are not great matchups, but he can easily OHKO Diantha's Gardevoir with either STAB. The only reason I do not put him up for S is because he is just so frail, and that he loses leitate when he mega-evolves.

I feel like people are going to be biased for "High Tier" poke, and this is a good example

For example, this is not gonna fucking happen

I don't know if its Gengar or Mega Gengar, who have 170 Sp.A, but Haunter insta loses to Valerie, especially during efficiency context. I just tried it a moment ago, and all it does is losing vs Mawile, losing to Dedenne, losing to Klefki, and is laughed silly by Mr Mime

Which brings me to a point, how do we tier traded evo pokemon?


I think Haunter is at best C. Let's compare it with Charmander. Charmander does fine without Mega, thanks to nice stats and alvailability, and become stupidly OP with Mega Evo, however thanks to MEvo animation that you need to watch over and over again, it is dropped to A. Now Haunter is basically an near universally worse version of Charmander. It need MEvo to become anything but a total joke, and its alvailability is 4 gym after Charmander. How is it A?

I would argue its D because its performance against Valerie is a big joke, and it follow this laughable performance by being the laughing stock of Team Flare, being OHKOed by everything not named Scraggy who it OHKOes, but really everyone and their mom can beat Scraggy. Alvailability wise, it is alvailable at the 5th Gym at level 31, which is actually super underlevelled by this point of the game



another one that I suspect might be overrated is Gible. It struggled against the Electric Gym if it was like level 35(admitably this is based on my experience using unevolved Gible). You can get it at around level 27, which is underlevelled in its own rights, and thankfully evolves it after 1 - 2 level ups. Emolga 2HKO it easilly. Magneton usually sets up Field on T1, and proceed to 2HKO it if Gible did not carry eviolite. Also it have Sturdy. Helioptle is the only poke on the team that it can actually beat without struggling.

Following this, its a short trip(read: Not many EXP to go with) before the Fairy Gym, Psychic gym with Sigyliph(up there with Dedenne and Emolga for some of the closest pokemon that can become a threat during in game play. And the land shark's Dragon Claw will never be enough to beat it), Slowking(bulky + can dent the Land Shark pretty damn well), and that cat, and Ice Gym, Garchomp did not seem to be that good. Its low-C IMO


As for my entry
Tentacool/Tentacruel

B Tier

Alvailability: As soon as you get Surf, you can catch it

Stats:
Cool: 40/40/35/50/100/70

Cruel: 80/70/65/80/120/100

In order to use it well, you need to evolve it at 30(4 - 5 level after catching). Its High speed allows it to surprisingly outspeed a lot of high speed threats, and its offense, while low is plenty which will be explained below

Typing:
Water Poison is a actually a good typing, being weak to Psychic, which it can take 1 hit thanks to its high Sp.D, and Ground which it can Surf on. Its resistance to fighting and Grass neutrality is a blessing, and having Clear Body is pretty useful because some enemies like to use stats debuff

Movepool:
The beauty of its movepool comes from 2 moves, Acid Spray and Barrier. Barrier allows Tentacruel to tank Physical hits, while Acid Spray ensure its capability to beat stuff that is not immune to Poison attacks. Aside from that Tentacruel learns generic Water Pokemon movepool, so you can't expect much aside from Surf and Ice Beam. Swords Dance can make for a lulzy alternative, but Acid Spray assisted Surf is a better bet most of the time

Major Battles:

- Ramos: If it is already Tentacruel, you only need to use 1 - 2 Barrier before spamming Acid Surf to its whole team. Buldoze is funny

- Clemont: Sadly, it should take a backside in this fight. Emolga is fast, while Magneton and Helioptle is a hassle to deal with

- Valerie: Mawile is a Barrier Set Up fodder. Follow this with Surf. Mr. Mime might seems to be a tough match up, but its AI will set up Screen or Reflect Turn 1, allowing you to Acid Spray it for teammates. If need be, Cruel can maybe survive one Psychic before going down. Sylveon is funny

- Olympia: Ragequit

- Wulfric: 1 Barrier and sweep with Acid Spray

Elite Four:

Wlkstorm: It resists most attacks thrown here aside from Probopass, who have low Sp.A and is weak to Surf anyway

Malva: Set Barrier Up, spam Surf

Siebold: Thanks to Starmie, you don't have the place to set up Barrier, making Gyarados a problem. It can beat Clawitzer and Barbaracle though

Drasna: Rough match up vs Dragalge. Otherwise spam Ice Beam

Diantha: 2 Barrier and proceed to use the right attack for the right moment. Once Gardevoir comes out, say hi with Acid Spray as much as you can, die, and switches in something with Special Attack

AZ: Overlevelled + Surf 2 Stuff + Acid Beam Sygiliph

Rival: Beats everything except Cat. Can use Surf against Fennekin final Evo

Team Flare: Golbat can be a problem with its powerful Acrobatic, otherwise it fare nicely. Toxicroak can't do much and will fall to Acid Spray eventually

Lysandre: Barrier

Additional Comments:

Tentacool is a fairly nice poke with several niche, such turning an otherwise hard match up by using a Barrier or two, and High speed allowing it to sweep, or dent something before going down. As a whole, tentacruel is defined by a move that it learned fairly close to its capture time, namely Barrier and Acid Spray. It face a harsh start, but after evolving into Tentacruel, it can be handy to beat many threats in an efficient manner

 

[Gokuzbu]

I think trade to evolve pokes should automatically lose a tier as that is not exactly efficient for everyone.

 

[sickweare]

In Reply to the Nidoking rating:
It is definitely higher then B Tier at least in Y where Nidorino is common. I can only see B Tier in X where you might have to train Nidoran from Level 11.
Moonstone is obtained in the beginning of Reflection Cave.
Hone Claws can help to solo major fights, but is not necessary against ordinary trainers.
Thus Korrina is easily swept without taking too much damage with only Return or Strength after Hone Claws.
The game gives you a lot of Speed EVs so you should outspeed Mr Mime against Valerie and OHKO with even Return.

Nidorino and Nidorina have the same encounter rate in both X & Y, they aren't exclusives.
I loved using Nidoking, but my problem with it is first, it's rather rare, and second, it becomes reliant on TMs (although it learns many of them). I still see B-Tier, because it's still a very solid Pokemon as ever to use in-game, but it's not overwhelmingly good. It has good match-ups throughout but it's not likely to be your most used Pokemon on your team (and its level-up moves are pretty barren outside of Earth Power)

Still a great mon.

 

[Aerophoenix]

I think trade to evolve pokes should automatically lose a tier as that is not exactly efficient for everyone.

Traditionally, trade evolutions are tiered twice; once with trade available, once without. It might seem like less of a big deal for, say, Kadabra or Machoke, but it easily bumps Haunter up a tier if you can trade it, if only because Gengar's MEvo has insane power. I can see it being a huge deal for others like Pumpkaboo/Spritzee/Swirlix/Phantump because they see significant power jumps.

 

[Mocha]

Do we have an HM Slave/Utility Pokemon tier list? Or is that being considered in this thread as well? I feel like some things that should be listed just from a quick glance:

- Talonflame with Flame Body: Our breeding king, coupled with Flame Body to hatch our eggs faster, he can also learn Fly so that we can talk to the IV Judge, which gives a quick two-in-one Pokemon on our team while maximizing our egg space in our party.

- Helioptile: Between Parabolic Charge and Surf, he can be a great lead for Horde Battles when you're EV'ing your Pokemon. Not to mention the fact that he also gets Surf itself, and Cut, for more HM purposes.

- Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume/More sweet scent Pokemon: For the sake of not having to carry Honey around, and instantly bringing us Horde battles. They can also learn Cut for additional HM coverage.

And there's much more of course, but this is just to start out. Thoughts? Or do we already have a thread for this?

 

[CJorex]

I feel like people are going to be biased for "High Tier" poke, and this is a good example

I don't know if its Gengar or Mega Gengar, who have 170 Sp.A, but Haunter insta loses to Valerie, especially during efficiency context. I just tried it a moment ago, and all it does is losing vs Mawile, losing to Dedenne, losing to Klefki, and is laughed silly by Mr Mime

You're talking about gym trainers here. Gengar completely beats Valerie. Mawile and Klefki do not resist Ghost (and Mawile had really low SDef), while Mr Mime and Sylveon are easily outsped and OHKO'd by Gengar. And besides, he has plenty of other great matchups, like Olympia.

 

[JSND]

You're talking about gym trainers here. Gengar completely beats Valerie. Mawile and Klefki do not resist Ghost (and Mawile had really low SDef), while Mr Mime and Sylveon are easily outsped and OHKO'd by Gengar. And besides, he has plenty of other great matchups, like Olympia.

I made that post after I tried level 33 Haunter vs Valerie

Mr.Mime outspeed and used Screen Turn 1 and kill it
Klefki is 3HKO with Shadow Ball and used Foul Play in return
Dedenne outspeed and 2HKO with Volt Switch
Sylveon 3HKO with its Fairy move, so Haunter can at least do something
Mawile also 3HKO and OHKO with its Dark Move

I don't know about Olympia, but its performance against Valerie's gym is nothing but horrid


Granted its Haunter instead of Gengar, and at level 33, but I don't really see Gengar being High Tier if it need to be grinded 4 level, likely with no trainer around before being something that is not utter shit

 

[CJorex]

I made that post after I tried level 33 Haunter vs Valerie

Mr.Mime outspeed and used Screen Turn 1 and kill it
Klefki is 3HKO with Shadow Ball and used Foul Play in return
Dedenne outspeed and 2HKO with Volt Switch
Sylveon 3HKO with its Fairy move, so Haunter can at least do something
Mawile also 3HKO and OHKO with its Dark Move

I don't know about Olympia, but its performance against Valerie's gym is nothing but horrid


Granted its Haunter instead of Gengar, and at level 33, but I don't really see Gengar being High Tier if it need to be grinded 4 level, likely with no trainer around before being something that is not utter shit

Lv 33? You were Five levels under as a Haunter. I used a Gengar that had its megastone and was at least on par with her Pokemon. This is why we need to have seperate entries for the unevolved and evolved forms of trade evolvers. Gengar deserves at least A tier, while Haunter is more viable in C. Also; your grinding argument; why didn't you try using exp share with it against the gym trainers?

 

[DHR-107]

Lv 33? You were Five levels under as a Haunter. I used a Gengar that had its megastone and was at least on par with her Pokemon. This is why we need to have seperate entries for the unevolved and evolved forms of trade evolvers. Gengar deserves at least A tier, while Haunter is more viable in C. Also; your grinding argument; why didn't you try using exp share with it against the gym trainers?

We do tier them separately. The only time we combine them is when they end up in the same tier as each other. So if people decided Kadabra was A and so was Alakazam, we would combine them into one entry, but if they are decided as different tiers, then we have separate entries.

 

[JSND]

Lv 33? You were Five levels under as a Haunter. I used a Gengar that had its megastone and was at least on par with her Pokemon. This is why we need to have seperate entries for the unevolved and evolved forms of trade evolvers. Gengar deserves at least A tier, while Haunter is more viable in C. Also; your grinding argument; why didn't you try using exp share with it against the gym trainers?

Isn't Exp Share is assumed to be "banned"?

 

[skitz0phrenic]

Why is Chesnaught so low? He solo'd the entire game for me once Power Up Punch was obtained with extreme ease. Easily S tier from my experience. I was actually considering restarting with a different starter because he made everything so easy.