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The thing about the anti homeless benches is that they were included because anti homeless architecture is becoming more and more common and not being discussed enough, to the point that the average person will see it and just assume its a normal feature. They say nothing about the games story, and instead the unfortunate banality of hostile architecture
I would agree with this sentiment if this was literally anything but a Kalos game. Maybe I'm giving Game Freak unmerited benefit of the doubt but it seems awfully convenient that they only decide to implement anti-homeless architecture into the otherwise cheery and utopian world of Pokemon right when they're revisiting the region where wealth inequality is one of the main themes. The same trailer teased the return of the formerly homeless exploited girl so it's not like they've just forgotten about this stuff.
I'm not even saying there'll be any sort of immediate plot relevance: I heavily doubt we're getting a long speech from Emma or Sycamore or whoever decrying the evils that lead to these benches being built. But I do think they are setting up Z-A Lumiose City as having a vague undercurrent of Bad Vibes and I think we shouldn't immediately dismiss this as ignorance or carelessness rather than a deliberate bit of environmental storytelling. I literally just looked up "bench", "city bench" and "urban bench" on google images and nearly all the results are regular-ass benches with none of this stuff on them. I straight up got more pictures of whatever the fuck this is than any anti-homeless benches:
Point is I don't buy the "3D Modeller looked up reference images and didn't realize what they were doing" hypothesis
I would agree with this sentiment if this was literally anything but a Kalos game. Maybe I'm giving Game Freak unmerited benefit of the doubt but it seems awfully convenient that they only decide to implement anti-homeless architecture into the otherwise cheery and utopian world of Pokemon right when they're revisiting the region where wealth inequality is one of the main themes. The same trailer teased the return of the formerly homeless exploited girl so it's not like they've just forgotten about this stuff.
I mean. I'm not saying its impossible for them to do this intentionally, but just because they have emma and az on the game doesnt actually mean the real devs writing this game are aware of the nuances of hostile architecture or homelessness itself. they've proven to do pretty shallow research/not do any kind of research on the issues they want to tackle in every other game of theirs (including alola. sad!) and I'll be extremely surprised if they did this intentionaly and just didn't grab this out of a model pack
(And honestly, I think it's very clear abilities are NOT in the game, with the Mega Alakazham case being very clear proof, and you're huffing copium that they are :P )
Okay, so let's then talk about an issue with that: New Megas.
Unless you believe they aren't making any new Mega Pokemon, as I mentioned a Mega Pokemon's +100 BST distribution can be affected by their Ability. Now, this is no problem in a game where Pokemon have their Abilities, obviously. But now let's consider Mega Pokemon without their Ability and some just feel off, especially in their stats. Some examples:
Charizard X would either have a higher Attack or not have even been made a mixed Attacker without Tough Claws.
Kangaskhan, Mawile, Medicham would most definitely had higher Attack without their Abilities.
Aggron may have been given more Special Defense without Filter.
Banette may have been given more Speed without Prankster.
Absol may have been given more defensive stat increases (did it really need a +50 Special Attack increase that it never uses?) without Magic Bounce.
Garchomp may have at least kept its Speed if it didn't have an Attack increasing Ability.
Though Lucario has always been a mixed attacker on paper, overtime it's been more preferred a physical attacker and I feel thus it would have been given higher Attack without Adaptability.
Abomasnow in general relies on Snow Warning, so without it I wonder if they would have given the stat increases it has (notably decreasing its Speed).
Min-maxed Beedrill I also question would even exist if they hadn't given it Adaptability to push it over the edge.
I feel they pushed Pidgeot to being a Special Attacker because with No Guard its a strong Hurricane user. So without No Guard?
Sableye I can't imagine being made into a defensive wall without Magic Bounce.
I have a feeling Glalie would have been made more into a Special mon, but was kept a mixed attacker for the sole purpose of Refrigerate Explosion.
Not to mention I think several Mega Pokemon may have had their designs influenced what Ability they got: Blastoise, Gengar, Kangaskhan, Slowbro, and Sableye.
So, if they make new Megas in a game without Abilities, those Pokemon are going to:
1. Be given a design devoid of influence by any Ability.
2. Need to be impressive from Stats, Typing, and Moveset alone.
3. In a future game where there are Abilities will then need to be given an Ability that won't make them OP and yet match their design.
"COUNTER-ARGUMENT: The new Pokemon in Legends: Arceus DID have Abilities pre-set for them, they just never used them until available in the core games. Thus they can give these new Mega Pokemon their Abilities and just have to wait for them to be used in a future game."
Which leads me to my final point: What my stance is.
My stance IS NOT that Abilities are definitely in the game. I fully agree that there is a strong chance they won't be.
My stance is that it's STUPID not to include Abilities. Because why not? Is a new batting system really that complex you need to ditch Abilities instead of just weakening ones causing issue/concern?
I literally just looked up "bench", "city bench" and "urban bench" on google images and nearly all the results are regular-ass benches with none of this stuff on them.
And a thing I noticed about reading these pages is that these programs promoting the installation of these kind of benches are pushing the narrative that they're more beneficial to the elderly and disabled (obviously they do not mention anything about the homeless).
Once again, going back to what Bakugames said, it's not that GF put these benches in thinking they're anti-homeless benches. They put these benches in because they likely saw these benches are the most common installed. And they're the most common installed because cities are pushing their sleeker designs are helpful to the old and disabled, groups people are generally more willing and want to help than the homeless. This is not a commentary by GF, these benches in the game is more of a unconscious social normalizing that is seeping into visual media.
You can also see quite a few anti-homeless benches in japan itself, especially in toyko where gamefreak's hq is settled. the helping the elderly/disabled narrative is pushed a lot (though even in that their design is still uncomfortable on average, and I feel like those groups of people would also appreciate places where they can fully lay down).
I'm not trying to #cancel gamefreak, but while I don't think theyre unable to make nuanced decisions, this topic is still very niche if you don't do your due research + I think if that was/is their goal, they'd do it in more overt ways too, and not Just the bench models, which will be ignored by most peoplw who also dont know about hostile architecture. I think id believe the intentionally of the benches if hostile architecture was more present in what we've seen, because then collecting everything just becomes an "alright you searched for exactly this type of object to put in the game"
I find this argument weird because you are acting as if the abilities don't exist and not that they do exist and are in the files but are just not used in-game itself. All the new pokemon in Legends Arceus had stats and abilities that didn't really come up in the game they were introduced in at all because they were also designed, like pokemon always are, to be relevant to some aspect of mainline competitive.
having the abilities actually function in game would just add more work since they'd have to adjust every single ability to have a unique function for non turn based battles, when they already having to do with hundreds of moves that each need new vfx and animations too.
if there are new megas I can see there being a situation where they have exclusive new abilities that are not even remotely relevant in Legends Z-A themselves but may represent what their gameplay was like in Legends Z-A for people who use them in like Champions or Gen 10 or whatever.
All the new pokemon in Legends Arceus had stats and abilities that didn't really come up in the game they were introduced in at all because they were also designed, like pokemon always are, to be relevant to some aspect of mainline competitive.
いてぃ- lmfao i forgot to swap my keyboard. it stays there its funny.
anyway I think the reason to keep abilities away is the need to rework so many of them for a non turn based thing. However, many abilities are fine as they are, so I wonder if they either did this preemptively, or if they tried abilities but it ended up that like, 10% dont work and altering just those was too much work
you had a similar thing in the post but not really the same argument, your "counter argument" in italics doesn't even give a reason why they would be in the game still, you just listed that and immediately said its stupid without saying why its stupid.
you had a similar thing in the post but not really the same argument, your "counter argument" in italics doesn't even give a reason why they would be in the game still, you just listed that and immediately said its stupid without saying why its stupid.
Admittedly a very brief reason but I also feel I've covered my reasonings in my past few posts while also providing ways GF could just limit Abilities. It was "alright" in Arceus because the focus of that game was catching Pokemon while the people of that time were just understanding these magical creatures (one could maybe theorize that Pokemon may not have Abilities as we know them back then and only developed into something people recognize and could categorize as Abilities after a few centuries of partnering with Pokemon). But we're now in the present where Abilities are very much a thing and part of Z-A's gameplay is a battling competition.
BTW, I would also buy an in-game explanation to why Abilities are off. Like, in order to more safely handle the distribution of Pokemon to the new Wild Zones, Lumiose City has been equipped with anti-Ability emitters. They could also say it'll test trainer's participating in the Z-A Royale's skills, especially anyone using a Mega Pokemon. Would still feel like a cop-out, but would at least would address the existence & therefore absence of Abilities. Heck, could also be a plot point: What is the best way to handicap Zygarde? Prevent it from using its Abilities. No reversal of auras, no changing into its Complete Form.
Im curious if they did or not because I looked up anti-homeless bench paris and one of the first results is one that looks suspiciously similar
Granted, game freak doesn't always handle topics well by just having them in the game on seemingly accident. Like the colonization of Hokkaido, random revanchist map of Hokkaido and parts of what is now Russia in Gen 4, conservation issues in Hawaii etc.,
Anyways, on a lighter note: I know SWSH's League Cards get a lot of justified criticism for basically outsourcing what should've been story beats to lore dumps but Legends Z-A is the one game where a similar feature could be genuinely really helpful to catch newcomers up on XY story beats without bogging down the new plot with "remember when this happened?" textboxes. For instance, an AZ card whose art recreates "It's been 3,000 years...", the back describing his backstory, his wandering and the reunion with Floette
Anyways, on a lighter note: I know SWSH's League Cards get a lot of justified criticism for basically outsourcing what should've been story beats to lore dumps but Legends Z-A is the one game where a similar feature could be genuinely really helpful to catch newcomers up on XY story beats without bogging down the new plot with "remember when this happened?" textboxes. For instance, an AZ card whose art recreates "It's been 3,000 years...", the back describing his backstory, his wandering and the reunion with Floette
They'd never do it, but it would be very funny if, whatever form* the "XY lore dumps" took, they were completely wrong. Xernea and Yveltal aren't mentioned at all, Geosenge Town was bombed and a bunch of pokemon taken hostage, Malva was openly opposing Team Flare from their inception, and Az is just some dude who attacked the new Champion in the middle of a ceremony and stole the Champion's shiny Floette. Just a mix of political lies, stuff no one except the player knew about being missed, and random guessing.
*archived Lumiose Gazette articles would be my pick
While I agree that megas with no abilities were very boring in Let's Go, I feel like we also have to consider that this is a whole new battle system that's probably gonna be unique to this game. In the other mainline games, Megas are a +100 BST increase with most of their new identity coming through their ability. In here, though? We literally don't know. They could very easily have some unique mechanic to match this game's new battle system and make up for not having abilities
Edit: I also feel like this would be an opportunity to give some of these Pokémon new signature moves. PLA had new moves for pretty much all of its Pokémon and even made some for the lake smurfs and Cresselia, I could see a handful of old mons with Megas getting a new move
They'd never do it, but it would be very funny if, whatever form* the "XY lore dumps" took, they were completely wrong. Xernea and Yveltal aren't mentioned at all, Geosenge Town was bombed and a bunch of pokemon taken hostage, Malva was openly opposing Team Flare from their inception, and Az is just some dude who attacked the new Champion in the middle of a ceremony and stole the Champion's shiny Floette. Just a mix of political lies, stuff no one except the player knew about being missed, and random guessing.
*archived Lumiose Gazette articles would be my pick
Why would Malva have needed to oppose Team Flare? It was started by a well-loved philanthropist who tragically lost his life in the Geosenge bombing. Nothing to be ashamed of at all.
Why would Malva have needed to oppose Team Flare? It was started by a well-loved philanthropist who tragically lost his life in the Geosenge bombing. Nothing to be ashamed of at all.
Depends on if Lysander is remembered as that or "evil incarnate who everyone uses as the stock answer for worst person ever but don't worry nobody will ever be as evil as this guy ever again and if you compare anyone to this guy you'd be exaggerating so stop freaking out everything is fine"
Why would Malva have needed to oppose Team Flare? It was started by a well-loved philanthropist who tragically lost his life in the Geosenge bombing. Nothing to be ashamed of at all.
I know this is a joke but Lysandre announced to the whole region "LOL YOU GON DIE BITCHES" via the Holo Caster. Also he was stopped by the (former?) champion and their friend group. They'd have one hell of a time trying to memory hole that
I know this is a joke but Lysandre announced to the whole region "LOL YOU GON DIE BITCHES" via the Holo Caster. Also he was stopped by the (former?) champion and their friend group. They'd have one hell of a time trying to memory hole that
Surely he was just trying to warn them, we can't know for sure, please understand.
@Megas with no Abilities discussion
There's precedent in both the other Legends game for no abilities at all and in LGPE for Megas with no abilities.
I might be wrong, but I'm going to just expect the worst for this one, especially since for all intents and purposes, the Legends series are spinoffs with wildly different gameplay. Does that justify the removal of abilities? lol no. Will they do it anyway? lol yes.
Champions is guaranteed to have them back in full force in our beloved, busted, and janky gameplay. It is what it is.
I will be completely honest, I seriously doubt the same people who travel to certain real life places to get scarely accurate geographical locations and culture are not fully aware of what an anti homeless bench looks like. I doubt it's getting any kind of actual story relevance or deep discussion about it but come on now, not even GF is that oblivious. The entire premise of this game is Pokemon's take on the redevelopment Paris is going trough in real life. How do you expect me to believe they know about that but not the bench thing? This isn't some random Japanese company using France as a setting with sterotypes (even trough they are still there, I'm looking at you SV) because they feel it's fancy or funny. It's not just baggettes on the eiffel tower.
I have to echo the idea that abilities are probably not returning. I would love to be wrong, but there is precedent to that, and let's be real, most casual players are going to care more about the new real tine battles and the idea of using Mega more than anything else. Charizard becomes cooler, Dragon type and it's stronger. That's more than good enough for most people.
Then again I didn't think the game would focus a lot on trainer battles after LA and I was clearly wrong on that aspect. I do hope they use the special trainers to at least showcase the new Pokemon/megas/forms whatever. I always care more about the new ones than any returning ones, and LA did very well in that aspect by having them all upfront.
Speaking on that, even as someone who doesn't believe random claims on Twitter, is it okay to discuss the leaks here? SV had a separate thread, and while I'm still trying to avoid any story stuff just in case they are real, I don't want to ruin someone experience by talking about that stuff...but also it would be very fun to speculate on them. The SV leaks were what sold me on the game after all with Paradoxes and all, despite the atrocious official news cycle. And even if Megas end up not having abilities and such in ZA, we can speculate on which ones would be on the games internal data just like LA had them (even if someone ended up being changed for SV)
Something I just realized about the real time combat is that it provides an opportunity to incorporate some of the bespoke overworld behavior that's previously been exclusive to wild Pokemon. Movement quirks incompatible with Pokemon's traditional battling system.
...wait is *this* what the Synchro Machine was testing?
I can definitely see GF making a future game - either Gen X or Legends Kyurem - where they just make us control Pokémon themselves with Sychro Manchine lore-wise and PLZA's combat system gameplay-wise, leaving Champions for the competitive scene. This would also fit with Gen 5 leitmotiv which was Pokémon suffering in battle: by undergoing the Synchro Machine effects, trainers would be able to experience all the pain Pokémon suffer when fighting. It would make a nice callback to that considering how they will probably further explore this theme in whatever they have planned for the real (sorry, Indigo Disk) Unova return.
Regarding the benches thing, I'd say this is a way for GF to tell us Quasartico could be the bad guys. And by the way, there are heavy PLZA story spoilers leaking right now on Twitter and other websites. Be careful guys!
I will be completely honest, I seriously doubt the same people who travel to certain real life places to get scarely accurate geographical locations and culture are not fully aware of what an anti homeless bench looks like.
I've very likely done more international travel than a good chunk of people in this thread and. Uh. Didn't realize it was an anti-homeless bench until it was pointed out. I'm willing to give Game Freak the benefit of the doubt here tbh. Things can slip through during research.
Plus considering how borderline utopian the universe is (free healthcare?!?) I doubt homelessness is even an issue or taken into consideration in the worldbuilding anyway.
Plus considering how borderline utopian the universe is (free healthcare?!?) I doubt homelessness is even an issue or taken into consideration in the worldbuilding anyway.
You joke, but Zygarde already has a way to suppress Abilities via Core Enforcer, so it actually wouldn't be a jump if a Mega Zygarde had an Ability which just did that from the start (a Neutralizing Gas but only for your opponent side of the field).
Anyways, on a lighter note: I know SWSH's League Cards get a lot of justified criticism for basically outsourcing what should've been story beats to lore dumps but Legends Z-A is the one game where a similar feature could be genuinely really helpful to catch newcomers up on XY story beats without bogging down the new plot with "remember when this happened?" textboxes. For instance, an AZ card whose art recreates "It's been 3,000 years...", the back describing his backstory, his wandering and the reunion with Floette
People had criticism about the League Cards? I loved them, while I guess it had some info which they could have fit into the game somehow, it also felt they had a bunch of info about the character that would otherwise not make it into the game. Sure, it makes a lot of this "informed character traits", though GF always had a problem with making Gym Leaders nothing more than one-and-done bosses (worse with some Elite Four members); we're lucky if we even see them in the post game let alone if they're even involved with the story. Heck, I have to think even GF agreed as that's the whole point of Pokemon Masters EX, to not only delve into the various important human characters in the franchise but also have interesting interactions between them.
And they don't have to be collectible cards each time; not that it wouldn't make sense. Though you know GF are obsessed with aesthetic details and so would want the way we receive this info to be thematic. Galar's League was based around a sports league thus got the Trainer Cards being collectible cards.
Kanto: Well, skipping to the remakes, FRLG actually also had something they could have easily brought over to each generation to do just this: the Fame Checker! Now how it was handled in FRLG was that it was a small "info seeking" quest where each character had six pieces of info you had to read signs and talk to other NPCs to gather the info you could then check anytime, and collecting all of them then had the Gym Leader send you a personal message. Now while I don't know if they would want to do that amount of work for each character again, especially when they introduce a DLC character, I think no one would complain if they brought it back and it just updated with the background info.
Johto: Johto's vibe has always been sort of trying to be the yang to Kanto's yin, notably it being more traditional & natural compared to Kanto's urbanization and higher use of technology. If it had it's own version of the Fame Checker it would probably be from printer material, like a magazine article.
Honestly, between a collectible card, the Fame Checker, and magazine articles I feel they could easily cycle between those (or stick with the Fame Checker and just have it collect info like Trainer Cards). Because, I'll be honest, I got no clue for a unique thing for Sinnoh, Unova, & Kalos.
Hoenn & Alola: Now these two I do have a unique idea: with them being on tropical islands, how about post cards? Or at least be it one piece of info written by the character.
Paldea: Now while a magazine article would have made perfect sense here, something you'd read in the Gym Buildings (if I recall the corners of those buildings had like a waiting area with magazine racks, seats, & table), I also can see another way do the Trainer Card idea: Business Cards. Not only is the Pokemon League presented in a more corporate manner but there's also the Paldea Academy. And while it would be odd for the student characters to have them, they could write it off as either them mimicking the adults to present themselves as more "official" or some were made to knowing someone may want to swap cards with them.
... Oh, right, this is about Z-A. Well, there is actually something Kalos-relevant they could use: the Holo Caster (which I'm just now realizing is probably what those hologram trainers are, projections from the Holo Caster... so thus we may not have a holographic/cyber world unless they expanded on it). Just have one of its features be the Fame Checker which, as the player progresses through the story and learns about past events, can then use the Holo Caster for more indepth stories written about what happened, from both news articles and people's first hand accounts & thoughts. For new players the news articles will catch them up (and for old players show how in-world the events of the story was reported, bonus points for them noticing missing info or inaccuracies) and for everyone to see how certain events affected the people of Kalos (like I can only imagine all the different reactions to Lysandre popping up on everyone's Holo Caster telling them they're filth and he's going to kill them & everyone they know). Oh, and unless another company swopped in a introduced a replacement product, you just know despite Lysandre's company making the things people kept their Holo Casters (though Lysandre's company was probably seized by the Kalos government and, if it still exists, restructured).
They'd never do it, but it would be very funny if, whatever form* the "XY lore dumps" took, they were completely wrong. Xernea and Yveltal aren't mentioned at all, Geosenge Town was bombed and a bunch of pokemon taken hostage, Malva was openly opposing Team Flare from their inception, and Az is just some dude who attacked the new Champion in the middle of a ceremony and stole the Champion's shiny Floette. Just a mix of political lies, stuff no one except the player knew about being missed, and random guessing.
I can actually see them covering up Xerneas and Yveltal, no one except those-in-the-know need to know about the deer that can grant eternal life or the wyvern that kills destroys everything around it either alive or dead. Yeah, while most will leave that alone, there's still some people you don't want to give ideas to.
While Malva will probably be able to hide her involvement thanks to the deal with Looker she made, denying she was ever part of Team Flare during official investigations, no way Team Flare's actions would be forgotten (you know, on account of Lysandre appearing on everyone's Holo Caster loudly announcing his genocide).
I can see the players and rivals essentially being forgotten though. Sure, they got medals, but fame is fleeting. There's just no reason to remember the five kids who you're told were somehow involved with stopping Team Flare from killing everyone, like what have they done lately? Them being a Hero of Kalos (and the player the Champion) at this point is just a title they can present; probably doesn't give them that much authority alone.
AZ's story I can feel is a bit complicated on the fact that it's very hard to believe he's a 3k year old king. "Okay grandpa, no we totally believe you, yes your eternal life is why you're so big and not just a rare genetic mutation, now take your pills and once your black & white shows are over go to bed". Not that I think AZ would that much attention anyway; he gave up his life as king after the atrocity he committed and, now having repented, just wants to spend time with his Floette and seemingly pass on his knowledge to the newer generations.
Honestly I don't really think there's much of the story to tell or "cover-up", as I said above it would be the different people's reactions & thoughts to things which would add any depth to XY's general story beats.
Most definitely, if not having a Signature Move that "replaces" Abilities at least ones which could work with them in future games. Some quick ones:
Blastoise (and Clauncher family) have been wanting a stronger Water-type "pulse/aura" move.
Kangaskhan I could see getting one which is a just a strong Multi-hit Move in this game, but then in games where it has Parental Bond it gets a further boost.
They finally make a Physical Flying-type Move that any generic Flying-type, let alone Pinsir, get even though they aren't a bird. Like, make a Flying-type Liquidation called Turbulence, done.
Sharpedo, and other mouthy Water-types, would really like to have a Water-type Crunch (maybe also make a Rock-type too).
Could give Lopunny a Normal- or Fighting- Move that also hits Ghost-types.
I would do others but I feel that would start crossing into speculative wishlisting.
Hm, unless mods say otherwise, as long as you keep it in a spoiler tag I feel it would be fine. Just make it clear what's in the spoiler tag are alleged leaks.
