You wouldn’t have a good time fighting a 155/115 Pokémon with lowered stat. Maybe for make them breakable on both side?
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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
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Opposite as said above.
Chansey, Blissey and the Slowtwins, 2 cases of extremely skewed defensive profile, are not broken for (amongst others) that reason, they are super tanky on one side, but relatively weak on the other.
Toxapex and Ferrothorn on other hand see plenty of play in every generation they are in (joined by Garganacl this gen) due to a combination of being resilient on both sides, and not being passive.
You will still usually invest in a defensive stat, but the fact they can also sponge most hits from the other side is a huge boon for their viability.
Another thing that might factor in is how these abilities interact in Doubles, where you not only have multiple opponents throwing attacks but a partner being affected by the ability alongside them.
Ting-Lu lowers Special Attack while itself being Physically Defensive as mentioned, to give itself a fairly decent mixed defense profile rather than hyper-specializing. Lowering your own side's Special Attacks also means you'll probably favor Physical partners for Ting-Lu, which more often than not we tend to see being Physically bulkier as well and thus appreciating less Special Damage (whether by mitigation or scarcity) being lobbed your way. Look at something like Great Tusk, Kingambit, or Iron Hands for example, all of which have very high damage potential in a Physical Slugfest but really don't want stray Special Attacks breaking them down, hence Ting-Lu being a bulky support that also does away with their main weakness.
Obviously this is theorymon, but if we're looking for a Doyleist explanation (i.e. as a game), this is the most immediate synergy I see for covering bases rather than min-maxing. If we want the Watsonian (in-universe) explanation, Ting-Lu and Wo-Chien are the results of fear and grudges made manifest, things that cause problems by enduring and are hard to quash emotionally, while Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu are animations of hate and spite, emotions that might be short-lived but can do great damage in an instant. The quick-but-dangerous ones thus favor min-maxing the damage they can do in a very single-minded manner, do better at how they already hurt most, while the long-lasting-vices shore up their weakest stat so that no matter how you try to do away with them, you can't be rid of them easily.
Ting-Lu lowers Special Attack while itself being Physically Defensive as mentioned, to give itself a fairly decent mixed defense profile rather than hyper-specializing. Lowering your own side's Special Attacks also means you'll probably favor Physical partners for Ting-Lu, which more often than not we tend to see being Physically bulkier as well and thus appreciating less Special Damage (whether by mitigation or scarcity) being lobbed your way. Look at something like Great Tusk, Kingambit, or Iron Hands for example, all of which have very high damage potential in a Physical Slugfest but really don't want stray Special Attacks breaking them down, hence Ting-Lu being a bulky support that also does away with their main weakness.
Obviously this is theorymon, but if we're looking for a Doyleist explanation (i.e. as a game), this is the most immediate synergy I see for covering bases rather than min-maxing. If we want the Watsonian (in-universe) explanation, Ting-Lu and Wo-Chien are the results of fear and grudges made manifest, things that cause problems by enduring and are hard to quash emotionally, while Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu are animations of hate and spite, emotions that might be short-lived but can do great damage in an instant. The quick-but-dangerous ones thus favor min-maxing the damage they can do in a very single-minded manner, do better at how they already hurt most, while the long-lasting-vices shore up their weakest stat so that no matter how you try to do away with them, you can't be rid of them easily.
Facade is a weird move. Not in terms of the move itself, or the typing; a move that doubles damage off of status conditions is perfectly fine, and I don't have a quibble with it being Normal type. One would think, however, that doubling damage with a status condition would be a little more... specialized than it already is. Instead, an absolutely massive amount of Pokemon learn it, including such oddities as Ribombee and Starmie (guess what I'm using in my current Ultra Moon team, and guess which TM I just picked up)
Facade is a near-universal TM, so it's more interesting to look at what can't learn it. Outside of the usual suspects for minimal TM sets, there only seem to be absences in gens 7 (the Pikipek and Morelull lines, Kartana, and Magearna) and 9 (tadbulb line, toedscool line, veluza, gimmighoul line, Flutter Mane, and Iron Valian), though I can't figure out the exact logic for any of those.
Of all these, one I can definitely see... Kartana, I don't think they wanted to give it a way to circumvent Burn.
I'm curious about what the flavor behind Facade is. The Japanese name of "Bravado" and the English one suggest the idea is the Pokemon putting up a show that they're doing fine despite the Status Condition, but I'm not sure how that leads to a stronger hit than when not Statused.
Unrelated, Facade's concept combined with a lot of very proud or show-offy Pokemon (in terms of their nature as well as design) makes me surprised this of all things doesn't have a typed variation as a limited/signature move. Like imagine a Bug or Fighting equivalent for Buzzwole, for whom posturing and showing off is one of its defining behaviors (aside from drinking people of course).
Unrelated, Facade's concept combined with a lot of very proud or show-offy Pokemon (in terms of their nature as well as design) makes me surprised this of all things doesn't have a typed variation as a limited/signature move. Like imagine a Bug or Fighting equivalent for Buzzwole, for whom posturing and showing off is one of its defining behaviors (aside from drinking people of course).
There are some other standouts, mostly from Gen V onwards. One that will always make me mad is Maractus, because it's physical movepool is more varied than its special movepool. Besides dexited moves and Grass/Normal moves, physically it has Sucker Punch, Pin Missile, Bounce, Assurance, Drain Punch, Poison Jab, Throat Chop, Aerial Ace, and Knock Off. Special-wise all it has is Grass moves, Normal moves, and moves that change type under certain circumstances (Nature Power and Weather Ball, though if it comes back in SV DLC Nature Power is dexited now too)
Maybe because when they're not statused the mon in question just doesn't have much of a facade to put up, they're doing fine already no need to pretend otherwise, but when statused they now have a facade that they can put up, saying that they're doing fine despite being burn/poisoned/paralyzed.
I just found out that Ho-Oh can be taught Giga Drain.
I understand that it's likely based on the phoenix or similar creatures, so having a rejuvenating move makes sense in some regards. But stealing life force from another being doesn't really jive with the inspiration or the in-game lore.
I understand that it's likely based on the phoenix or similar creatures, so having a rejuvenating move makes sense in some regards. But stealing life force from another being doesn't really jive with the inspiration or the in-game lore.
Which is why it needs to be taught to Ho-Oh via TM instead of being part of its Level-up movepool. I would argue Shadow Ball also doesn't fit Ho-Oh's flavor text but it too is a TM.
"Okay, Ho-Oh, I know you're a Pokemon which grants life and feathers glow in the color of the rainbow, but for me, your trainer, can you use your powers in the opposite way. Just for battle. Just, reverse the flow of life energy and create an orb of blackness by absorbing all its color. It's technically something you can do."
Though, now that you mention this, does seem a bit odd that Xerneas, also a lightgiver, learns moves Horn Leech (and Night Slash) by Level-up...
Hey just because it gives life doesn't mean it can't take it too, to be fair.
Night Slash on Xerneas is pretty interesting, though. It's the only dark type move it learns and while I imagine the flavor is meant to draw attention to its sword legs, I think that it combined with Close Combat & Outrage are meant to add a more direct "just because its serene, doesn't mean it doesn't have a mean side" thing.
well that and probably just...being a deer. They can be pretty violent critters. Would probably give Sawsbuck close combat too tbh
Night Slash on Xerneas is pretty interesting, though. It's the only dark type move it learns and while I imagine the flavor is meant to draw attention to its sword legs, I think that it combined with Close Combat & Outrage are meant to add a more direct "just because its serene, doesn't mean it doesn't have a mean side" thing.
well that and probably just...being a deer. They can be pretty violent critters. Would probably give Sawsbuck close combat too tbh
Great Tusk... Gets... Psyshock...?!
When playing Pokemon Violet, I got confused when a caught a Dreepy and it has Infestation on it's move set. Dreepy isn't a bug type, and I have no clue how it would be able to use the move.
I decided to look at the distribution of the move to see if there is a pattern that explains why Dreepy has the move. But looking at the distribution of the move in gen 6 and 7, when it was introduced as a tm just raised even more questions.
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/infestation.shtml
The distribution of the move is too specific for me to think that the move was intended to be widely distributed to non bug type Pokemon, especially since not every bug type get the move. So there has to be some reason behind the distribution of the move.
here is my attempt to explain the Pokemon that get the move
Edit:
I forgot that this pokemon also learns the move.
I decided to look at the distribution of the move to see if there is a pattern that explains why Dreepy has the move. But looking at the distribution of the move in gen 6 and 7, when it was introduced as a tm just raised even more questions.
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/infestation.shtml
The distribution of the move is too specific for me to think that the move was intended to be widely distributed to non bug type Pokemon, especially since not every bug type get the move. So there has to be some reason behind the distribution of the move.
here is my attempt to explain the Pokemon that get the move
Category 1: bug types
This is the easiest to explain in terms of why these Pokemon get the move, although I'm not sure why only these bug types get the move specifically
(not a bug type but evolves from one) 
Category 2: grass types
My main theory for this category is that these Pokemon lure in bugs to use them to attack the target. This fits pretty well for the Vileplume line and the Victreebel line. with Vileplume being based on the Rafflesia which attracts flies to serve as Pollinators by mimicking the smell of rotting meat (source https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2017/03/colossal-blossom), and Victreebel has multiple Pokedex entries about it luring in it's prey.
(These two are based on Crinoids not plants so they might not count) 
Bramblin and Brambleghast
Category 2.5: non grass types that can lure in bugs
(considering that Banette was a doll that was thrown away, it might be dirty or covered with some trash) 
(it might be a reference to mummies in fiction attacking with swarms of bugs) 
(bugs might live inside their bodies) 
(it costume could be made of garbage it found) 
(Dusclops could be based on mummies)
Category 3: invasive species/species that could cause a infestation
These Pokemon are based on species that are invasive species or can rapidly grow a large population to create an infestation and cause problems. This may be the critera they used to select what bug types got the move.
Bramblin and Brambleghast
(these Pokemon could be inspired by microbes, which can grow rapidly) 
Tentacruel has a Pokemon entry about it having large outbreaks that likely have a negative impact on the environment
Some of these may have the move because they are part of one of these categories.
These Pokemon could be in category 3, but I'm not sure about it.
(can your house getting haunted be considered an infestation?)
(it can learn every tm)
(it is a group of many Pokemon so infestation could be members of the group splitting from Stakataka to attack)
(it is 108 spirits bound to a keystone, so maybe some of the spirits split off to attack. But I'm not sure if they could do that considering that they are bound to the keystone)
(Drakloak and Dragapult could be using Dreepy for the attack, but this doesn't really solve the mystery of how Dreepy can use the attack. Maybe it is in category 3)
(I have no clue)
This is the easiest to explain in terms of why these Pokemon get the move, although I'm not sure why only these bug types get the move specifically
(not a bug type but evolves from one) Category 2: grass types
My main theory for this category is that these Pokemon lure in bugs to use them to attack the target. This fits pretty well for the Vileplume line and the Victreebel line. with Vileplume being based on the Rafflesia which attracts flies to serve as Pollinators by mimicking the smell of rotting meat (source https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2017/03/colossal-blossom), and Victreebel has multiple Pokedex entries about it luring in it's prey.
(These two are based on Crinoids not plants so they might not count) Bramblin and BrambleghastCategory 2.5: non grass types that can lure in bugs
(considering that Banette was a doll that was thrown away, it might be dirty or covered with some trash) (it might be a reference to mummies in fiction attacking with swarms of bugs) (bugs might live inside their bodies) (it costume could be made of garbage it found) (Dusclops could be based on mummies)Category 3: invasive species/species that could cause a infestation
These Pokemon are based on species that are invasive species or can rapidly grow a large population to create an infestation and cause problems. This may be the critera they used to select what bug types got the move.
Bramblin and Brambleghast
(these Pokemon could be inspired by microbes, which can grow rapidly) Tentacruel has a Pokemon entry about it having large outbreaks that likely have a negative impact on the environment
The other Pokemon
Some of these may have the move because they are part of one of these categories.
These Pokemon could be in category 3, but I'm not sure about it.
(can your house getting haunted be considered an infestation?) (it can learn every tm) (it is a group of many Pokemon so infestation could be members of the group splitting from Stakataka to attack) (it is 108 spirits bound to a keystone, so maybe some of the spirits split off to attack. But I'm not sure if they could do that considering that they are bound to the keystone) (Drakloak and Dragapult could be using Dreepy for the attack, but this doesn't really solve the mystery of how Dreepy can use the attack. Maybe it is in category 3) (I have no clue)Edit:
I forgot that this pokemon also learns the move.
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Actually, the explanation may be much simpler than you think, and it's in the actual name.
While the English name is "Infestation"... it's not exactly the same in other languages.
Most notably, the chinese one is "Pester", and in my case, the italian one (Assillo) also means "pester".
So in reality it's about Dreepy probably just floating around people annoying them and biting/tickling/doing very annoying things to them.
If you want to get creative with the whole Infestation thing, expecially considering it's a ghost type, he could be *literally going inside the opponent and damaging them*.
That makes a lot more sense. It's a bit odd though that the animation for the move doesn't really imply such an action, instead showing what looks to be a bunch of tiny bugs attacking the target. Maybe that's why the move was renamed to infestation in English. I'm kind of annoyed at how often move names are translated into something that implies a different flavor for the move, consider that it often will cause confusion at some point (like splash originally being named hop, which made Pokemon like Hoppip having the move confusing). EDIT: The animation might show that both interpretations of the move are correct, with the Pokemon either pestering the target themselves, or they have some bugs do it for them.
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According to Bulbapedia, the direct translation of Infestation is "Follow About". I feel like something might be lost in translation here (i.e. a pun) that explains the deal with the move.
Sandygast and Palossand don't have seaweed in their designs but regardless.
Speaking as someone who's been to the beach a lot, I've seen flies hanging around washed up seaweed and stuff. And bugs just randomly hanging out on the sand sometimes.
Sandygast and Palossand don't have seaweed in their designs but regardless.
It's an infestation of small bugs (or related) that pester and follow you around
I'm not meaning this as a joke I mean that's probably the intent of the move: it's meant as a big cloud of bugs that can never seem to escape from, but the name of the move is vague enough that it can be applied to sand particles (full of evil energy obviously) and *checks notes* annoying mimes.
Dreepy's more of a ghostly ancient amphibian but it also looks kind of wormy. And based on a classic style of ghost, so maybe some haunting in there. Though if it can be read as "follow(s) you" we also have the fact that they are used as surface to air missiles. Probably an, uh. Fairly straight forward one there, actually.
I'm not meaning this as a joke I mean that's probably the intent of the move: it's meant as a big cloud of bugs that can never seem to escape from, but the name of the move is vague enough that it can be applied to sand particles (full of evil energy obviously) and *checks notes* annoying mimes.
Dreepy's more of a ghostly ancient amphibian but it also looks kind of wormy. And based on a classic style of ghost, so maybe some haunting in there. Though if it can be read as "follow(s) you" we also have the fact that they are used as surface to air missiles. Probably an, uh. Fairly straight forward one there, actually.
To be more accurate, it's closer to "Surround" or "Cling". Japanese -> English dictionary I use uses a cat wrapping itself around someone's legs as an example of the word's usage. It's more along the lines of being surrounded or otherwise wrapped up than simply following persistently.
So I took a look at Bulbapedia's Infestation page to get a more detailed look on what learned it and what its description says. And I noticed something really weird.
Of the lesser things I want to point out, the description does say the user "infests" the target. This does support the animation and the interpretive version of the name that the Pokemon is having bug pests (likely fleas and mites and other small, blood-sucking bugs) "cling/follow" the target for multiple turns until they're able to shake them off.
However, a bigger thing I want to point out: Gen 9 seems to be have re-imagined the Move. Why? Because only 3 families learn it, and only one of them is Bug: Frosmoth, Dreepy family, & the Bramblin family. Oh, and Mareanie can get it as an Egg Move... except none of the current 3 learning familites of the Move is in its Egg Group (gonna have to wait for HOME capability). Also, another oddity: the Levels they learn the Move at. Now Bramblin and its evo is alright, they learn it at Level 17 so when you catch them they'll likely already know the Move. Dreepy family has it at Level 1, normally needing to relearn it BUT Dreepy only gets 4 moves via Level-Up (all at Level 1) so no issue there. Finally Frosmoth learns it at Level 8, which means unless you hatched a Snom and raised its Happiness to evo Level before leveling it past Level 8, you'll need to relearn (which isn't a problem as relearning a move from the status menu is one of the conveniences they thankfully kept from Legends; but it's still odd). So not only is it only learned by on Bug-type Pokemon now, it's a Move that Bug-type is very likely not even going to have.
This is an odd major shift for the Move, and the only reason for it is I think is strictly because of the Japanese name of the Move. Why else take this otherwise Bug-type utility move and RADICALLY change it? "Well, to be fair, it had lost its TM status and all the previous Pokemon that learned it via Level-up aren't in SV". Honestly to me that sounds more like a reason to just not make it selectable than keeping it in and giving it this odd new distribution. But no, in addition to making the choice to keep it, instead of keeping it as the initial interpretation of the Pokemon infesting someone they REALLY zoned in on the name. And even then there's an oddy because, if Bramblin gets it because of its evo gimmick, then why didn't Rellor get it? It evolves the same way and would have gotten STAB. Also, even if they didn't want to give it to all the other Bug-types that could learn if previously by TM/Breeding, I think the context would make sense to add it to the Level movepools to some of them like Vespiquen.
I mean there isn't an odd new distribution at all, though. It really is just "its not a TM anymore, and they didn't care to add it to the movepools naturally" + "the other Pokemon that learn it naturally are not in the game anymore", which it is not the only TM go to this route.
Also Mareanie can learn Infestation without waiting for Home; Egg Moves are not restricted by Egg Group anymore due to the Mirror Herb mechanic.
Was just about to start replying about this when you beat me to it, hah.
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Anyway, Bramblin getting Infestation is unlikely to have anything to do with its evolution method. Tumbleweeds are clingy and prone to getting wrapped around things, it seems like a reasonable assessment that Infestation would work with Bramblin's behavior, going off the broader meaning of the JP name. Rellor does not oppressively wrap around or cling to targets, it doesn't suit Infestation at all beyond being Bug type.