Pokémon Pelipper

[Bugzy]

Is Pelipper+ A-Marowak in terms of partners viable? I understand that its main STAB is weakened in the rain, but Marowak with Lighting Rod can switch into Electric type attacks, which Pelipper, put lightly, does not enjoy. It could then check said electric types with its ground coverage. In return, Pelipper could switch into Ground types (and Rock types to degree) and damage them back with Scald.

Just started trying this, honestly I'm not that impressed. I love Marowak and I did get good use out of him with Alola Ninetales but with Pelipper it just feels like a different mon could cover Pelipper's electric weakness better, the rain induced drop in his fire STAB moves is very noticeable. You're probably better off with a water-ground type or just something that can actually take advantage of rain.

Edit: On another note anyone have success with non rain + electric terrain rain teams? Was trying Rain + Bulu and Toxicroak is pretty fun with it. Gets double heals from dry skin and grassy terrain also Bulu is great at killing bulky waters and even other grass types who may otherwise use your rain against you. Problem I was having is what mega to use... tried Sharpedo and he wasn't bad, tried Scizor and he's ok but not amazing, Swampert seems wrong because grassy terrain hurts earth quake, I wanted to use Manectric but apparently Manectite isn't in S/M so he's not allowed. (really irritated they arbitrarily left some megas out, especially Beedrill my favorite)

 

[AzureRaptor]

Could Starmie function as a viable offensive/defensive spinner with Pelipper? How about Tapu Fini with it's defensive prowess and the ability to be able to reset electric terrain turns with Misty Terrain, while providing a status cover for sweepers?

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Could Starmie function as a viable offensive/defensive spinner with Pelipper? How about Tapu Fini with it's defensive prowess and the ability to be able to reset electric terrain turns with Misty Terrain, while providing a status cover for sweepers?

Starmie could be viable but under rain I feel like one of the new grass type rapid spinner/defoggers would have more merit. Taking out opponent's water types and benefiting from the lost fire weakness.

With that said, Starmie in or out of rain is always viable lets be real.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Yeah, Dhelmise has the ability to be really good in Rain, since it does have to worry about that Fire weakness as much as long as its up. Plus triple STAB is a beautiful thing.

 

[Joe Career]

A lot of people have been asking about the availability of Defog in this thread, and someone incorrectly answered that it's a move tutor in ORAS. Actually the only way to get Pelipper with Defog is via 4 gen HM (D/P/Pt), so it won't be available in-game until the Bank updates. However, not all is bad news, since Drizzle is a regular ability in S/M, you will be able to use an Ability Capsule to get a Pelipper with Drizzle and Defog. Just an FYI for people who don't know.

Also, I'm not sure why people are ignoring Defog so much.
Pelipper sets will basically work around the following moves: Scald for burn, U-turn for slow pivoting, Knock Off for item removal shenanigangs, Roost for recovery, and Hurricane or Hydro Pump as strong special attacking moves. However I don't think Pelipper is exactly the best special attacker and more defensive sets will be able to give up on the strong special attacking move for Defog.

 

[Photofluid]

Yeah I agree that Pelipper suffers from 4mss quite a bit since it has so many utility options as well as dual stab. It either has to sacrifice stab (it wants both 100% hurricanes and boosted Scalds) or sacrifice utility (U-Turn, Defog, Roost, Knock Off, etc.).

I dont think it is fair to say it is 4mss when so many pokemon would beg to have half of those options tbh.

I also dont think any of the moves is mandatory for it to be functional. It is extremely flexible and you can just choose which ever role you want it to fill. Be it a special attacker, a wall, or a support.

Trying Pelipper + Tapu Koko + Alolan Raichu right now. It's scary good.

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
- Dazzling Gleam

Raichu-Alola @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Surf
- Psychic

Pelipper beats Pheromosa so hard it's not even funny, unless they run HP Electric. It also wrecks Buzzwole. Not sure on Raichu's item; I've tried LO, Specs and Z-move and I like all of them, though I'd caution against Specs because of Dugtrio. LO Koko Thunder hits stupid kinda of hard; OHKOs Genesect. I could see HP Ice finding a place in Koko's set though. U-Turn is better than Volt Switch because it trolls Dugtrio; it's honestly hilarious. Speaking of Dugtrio, it's really good on this team.

This voltturn double terrain core looks so scary I honestly see ban potential after the uber pokemons are gone. It may come in the form of a drizzle + electric surge ban like the drizzle + ss ban back in bw.

Btw you may want to use the spec set on pelipper instead of a defensive set in some situation, depending on how you want to build the rest of the team.

 

[Sivolock]

Out of curiousity, has anyone here tried running a scarf set? It works differently than traditional weather setters, but I've used it to good effect on more offensive, tempo-oriented pivot rain teams.

Pelipper @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Tailwind/Toxic/Defog/Roost
- U-turn

Ideally, you bring Pelipper back in off of a slow u-turn (I've been using defensive defog mega-Scizor, since it is even more essential to keep hazards off the field when you don't have roost) whenever your rain ends. If they have something threatening, you can just pivot out with a fast u-turn into an appropriate threat. If they have something that you can safely threaten with hurricane or scald, you can stay in and keep attacking. It isn't amazing, but invested stab Hurricane does surprisingly decent damage. After hurricane, scald, and u-turn, the final moveslot doesn't really matter since there aren't any other moves you want to get locked into. Ice beam is an option, but Pelipper generally prefers just spamming STAB scalds in the rain, and there aren't too many threats that an ice beam hits harder than either hurricane or scald when rain is up. In a pinch, you can suicide for a last ditch tailwind or toxic, but it's extremely situational since if you don't get KO'ed that turn you lose massive tempo and become set-up fodder.

For a point of reference, scarf Pelipper is slightly faster than scarf Magnezone, which means it isn't going to be revenge killing set up sweepers or any other relevant scarfer in the tier, but you do outspeed most of the unboosted tier which makes u-turning out very safe. Lack of damp rock means that rain won't last as long, but ideally with appropriate pivot support (I've experimented with Jirachi, mega-Scizor, and Tornadus-T so far) you can provide a lot more offensive pressure and unpredictability.

That being said, this Pelipper set definitely has much less power on balanced rain teams, or really any teams that don't carry at least 2 or 3 other volt-turn pivots. It also might just be completely awful, and my success just comes from people not understanding how to play around it. I'd appreciate it if someone else could give me a second opinion on this!

 

[brycemiller]

I'm sorta new but have been doing research to get into competitive mons this gen. Tapu Koko, Pelipper A-Raichu was a group I was excited to try from the start and glad people are saying it's a strong core. To the point, what do you guys think of Mega-Swampert as the swift swim sweeper for a rain team? Due to the change this gen that makes mega evolves have their effects active the turn they come in, would this change his viability since he can now immediately get swift swim, and he has ground typing to cover Pelipper's weakness? Would love to hear thoughts and ideas for a set.

 

[PShine]

I'm sorta new but have been doing research to get into competitive mons this gen. Tapu Koko, Pelipper A-Raichu was a group I was excited to try from the start and glad people are saying it's a strong core. To the point, what do you guys think of Mega-Swampert as the swift swim sweeper for a rain team? Due to the change this gen that makes mega evolves have their effects active the turn they come in, would this change his viability since he can now immediately get swift swim, and he has ground typing to cover Pelipper's weakness? Would love to hear thoughts and ideas for a set.

I think Mega-Pert doesn't exist yet. It's not a Bank thing, the Mega Stone itself is unfortunately unavailable. Don't worry, he joined Diancie's "buffed megas who don't exist" support group.

 

[brycemiller]

I think Mega-Pert doesn't exist yet. It's not a Bank thing, the Mega Stone itself is unfortunately unavailable. Don't worry, he joined Diancie's "buffed megas who don't exist" support group.

Wait, can you not transfer mega-stones through pokebank when it arrives for sun and moon?

 

[fightnugget]

Wait, can you not transfer mega-stones through pokebank when it arrives for sun and moon?

You can't transfer any items via pokebank.

 

[Gimmick]

I've pretty much exclusively been using rain since release and I have a lot to say about Pelipper, but I'll keep it as short as possible.

First of all, I love this thing. It's obviously only good because it has Drizzle, but it turns out that it can do more than just set up Rain and die unlike Politoed in ORAS. Reliable recovery: ✓. Excellent support options: ✓. Not a momentum sink: ✓. Hazard control: ✓. Decent power: ✓. Good defensive typing for the current metagame: ✓. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to overhype the thing. It was PU before it got Drizzle. The thing I am hyping up is its ability do things beyond set up rain. Scald, U-turn, and Roost are just about mandatory moves on any defensive set (which is probably superior to offensive sets) while Hurricane, Knock Off, Toxic, Tailwind, and Defog (hell, even Ice Beam for Garchomp and Dragonite) are all solid options for that last slot, contingent on the rest of the team.

I've used probably all the viable Pelipper sets by now (even some non-viable ones), and this is the one that stands out as the best to me, especially where we are now in the S/M metagame.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

The 60 SpD EVs make sure that LO Pheromosa's Ice Beam is never a 2HKO, which means you can switch full HP Pelipper in against 0 SAtk LO Pheromosa every time: 0 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Pelipper: 136-161 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Obviously, the last slot depends on the team, so I went with Defog because I'm using a Volt-Turn core with Kingdra. Having the rain setter fill the role as hazard control really eases the stress on teambuilding because I can forgo using dedicated mons for that purpose. I used to have Hurricane over U-turn, but I honestly wasn't impressed with the damage output and often found myself double switching into a more powerful threat under the 8 turn time limit anyway. Hurricane looks great on paper, but it really isn't fantastic in practice. If rain was permanent, I think Hurricane would be the better choice. With 8 turns, it feels wasteful to use one of them throwing out an unboosted Hurricane. Of course, if I had natural Defog/Spin support elsewhere, I'd use Hurricane in a heartbeat since it's obviously not a bad move.

Anyway, I feel like this post is getting too long and my point was probably made several times, so I'll finish it off by saying that Pelipper doesn't have to constitute a "rain team" at all. By that, I mean a team with Pelipper doesn't necessarily need other Pokemon to abuse the rain, like Swift Swimmers or powerful Thunder/Hurricane users. I've found that Pelipper on its own actually isn't half bad and can use an offensive set pretty well. LO Agility Pelipper has actually impressed me in its ability to dismantle offensive teams.

offensive pelipper

Pelipper @ Life Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Agility
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam / HP Electric

Speed outspeeds Lando-T and Azumarill before Agility and outspeeds Pheromosa after Agility. A Timid nature can be used to outspeed Jolly Scarf Lando-T, but I haven't seen that much and the 2HKO on Toxapex is really nice.

It's not a half bad choice because it has naturally good physical defense, allowing it to set up quite easily and not fear priority as much as other sweepers/cleaners. It's also nothing short of weak considering it has the same SAtk as Kingdra, which is a revered rain sweeper. Water/Flying is excellent coverage because it doesn't really care about bulky grass types like Tapu Bulu or Tangrowth. Hurricane is a treat because it has a powerful STAB to hit bulky waters, too. Toxapex is just barely 2HKOd, and HP Electric is an option for Mantine. This is just for fun, though. If someone's going to have a Pelipper on their team, it's probably best to abuse the rain it provides. Perhaps there's a non-rain team out there that would benefit from an offensive LO Pelipper.

 

[Jojobobo]

I think people should consider running min Speed and 0 Speed IVs on Pelipper with U-turn, that way it functions as a great slow pivot to bring a sweeper in entirely unharmed. I guess Defog can be considered a little bit of a waste as most of the time with rain teams you get your sweeper in and have at it, you don't do a whole lot of switching. In that way, Scald, Hurricane, U-turn and Roost with max Def and HP is probably the best set.

 

[Julipuff]

So we all know Pelipper has nice bulk. But is physical or special bulk more important? Some of you said Calm above and some said Bold.

What if we mix the nature with different evs. Like a Calm nature with Def evs or Bold nature with spdef evs.

 

[Shuckleking87]

So we all know Pelipper has nice bulk. But is physical or special bulk more important? Some of you said Calm above and some said Bold.

What if we mix the nature with different evs. Like a Calm nature with Def evs or Bold nature with spdef evs.

In general, you want to cater your ev's to be able to take certain hits from certain threats, like the set above with 60 SpD evs to take 2 ice beams from Pheromosa

 

[Empress Mobile]

I know everyone is talking in terms of how Pelipper could replace Politoed, but what if you put them on the same team together? I know it's a little gimmicky, but it would certainly ensure that your team wins a weather War against other forms of weather. They share only one weakness which is easily sponged by Mega Swampert, which can abuse rain easily. Dugtrio can also trap and remove most relevant Electric types. Being able to set up rain so easily ruins opposing sun and sand setters, though the relevant hail setters pose a problem for them. This core would make a sweep easy for Swampert, Beartic, Kingdra, Kabutops, Omastar or even Tapu Koko + Raichu. I'm gonna give it a test. Anyway it's just a far flung idea, so don't crucify me if it's too gimmicky lmao

 

[Force Majeure]

I know everyone is talking in terms of how Pelipper could replace Politoed, but what if you put them on the same team together? I know it's a little gimmicky, but it would certainly ensure that your team wins a weather War against other forms of weather. They share only one weakness which is easily sponged by Mega Swampert, which can abuse rain easily. Dugtrio can also trap and remove most relevant Electric types. Being able to set up rain so easily ruins opposing sun and sand setters, though the relevant hail setters pose a problem for them. This core would make a sweep easy for Swampert, Beartic, Kingdra, Kabutops, Omastar or even Tapu Koko + Raichu. I'm gonna give it a test. Anyway it's just a far flung idea, so don't crucify me if it's too gimmicky lmao

I'll try it later but it doesn't sound great to me; the coolest thing about Politoed (over pelipper) is its access to Encore but that isn't particularly useful vs pelipper's access to U-Turn. If you were to run Politoed in such a setup it would probably be a good idea to use an offensive choice specs set on one of these mons: hydro pump/ice beam/focus blast/hp electric for Politoed and Hydro/Hurricane/U-Turn/HP Electric for pelipper. I don't see this as optimal though because for a non swift swim specs user in rain you're better off using Keldeo, Tornadus-T, or even something that uses rain less explicitly but also provides support (Tapus, especially... all of them).

 

[Empress Mobile]

I'll try it later but it doesn't sound great to me; the coolest thing about Politoed (over pelipper) is its access to Encore but that isn't particularly useful vs pelipper's access to U-Turn. If you were to run Politoed in such a setup it would probably be a good idea to use an offensive choice specs set on one of these mons: hydro pump/ice beam/focus blast/hp electric for Politoed and Hydro/Hurricane/U-Turn/HP Electric for pelipper. I don't see this as optimal though because for a non swift swim specs user in rain you're better off using Keldeo, Tornadus-T, or even something that uses rain less explicitly but also provides support (Tapus, especially... all of them).

Yeah I was thinking you would almost definitely need to run Specs on one of them. Though their support options are numerous, I think that using both of them in a team support role would relegate them to being too passive. Personally I'd run Support Pelipper + Specs Politoed. Despite Pelipper's slightly higher SpA and better STAB coverage, its access to reliable recovery imo makes it a better candidate for a supportive role. You're probably right that it would just be overkill, though. Politoed will probably be relegated back to PU. It is worth noting though that I think Pelipper will struggle heavily with common weather starters like Tyranitar and Alolan Ninetales (along with Gigalith, Vanilluxe and Aurorus which I think will be very uncommon). I think Hippowdon and Mega Abomasnow may be able to stall it out as well. Politoed is a similarly poor answer to most of these threats, but I think being able to manipulate the weather with multiple Pokemon on the team would be an unexpected strategy that could ameliorate a team's problems with these threats.

 

[Plasmirror98]

I've pretty much exclusively been using rain since release and I have a lot to say about Pelipper, but I'll keep it as short as possible.

First of all, I love this thing. It's obviously only good because it has Drizzle, but it turns out that it can do more than just set up Rain and die unlike Politoed in ORAS. Reliable recovery: ✓. Excellent support options: ✓. Not a momentum sink: ✓. Hazard control: ✓. Decent power: ✓. Good defensive typing for the current metagame: ✓. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to overhype the thing. It was PU before it got Drizzle. The thing I am hyping up is its ability do things beyond set up rain. Scald, U-turn, and Roost are just about mandatory moves on any defensive set (which is probably superior to offensive sets) while Hurricane, Knock Off, Toxic, Tailwind, and Defog (hell, even Ice Beam for Garchomp and Dragonite) are all solid options for that last slot, contingent on the rest of the team.

I've used probably all the viable Pelipper sets by now (even some non-viable ones), and this is the one that stands out as the best to me, especially where we are now in the S/M metagame.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

The 60 SpD EVs make sure that LO Pheromosa's Ice Beam is never a 2HKO, which means you can switch full HP Pelipper in against 0 SAtk LO Pheromosa every time: 0 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Pelipper: 136-161 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

...

Thought it might be worth mentioning, most people seem to be running 4 SAtk Pheromosa, in which case you'd need 64 Special Def EV's to 100% guarantee Ice Beam is a 3hKO (as long as rocks aren't a factor).

4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Pelipper: 138-162 (42.7 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 64 SpD Pelipper: 136-161 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Very subtle difference, but if you're running Damp Rock over lefties it might make or break our pelican friend.

 

[nameless90]

I find that investing full EVs into Spe + Jolly nature can be a nice thing in order to outspeed with U-turn some specific threats. This makes sense if you really want to have the opportunity to optimize U-turn support, but you can even use your STAB to wear down some key threats. This is possible because Hurricane, even if it is uninvested, has an high base power and Scald is boosted by rain.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 192 HP / 64 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald/Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost

64 SpD EVs are to avoid a 2HKO from 4 SpA EVs Pheromosa's Ice Beam most of the time.
252 EVs in Spe 9 Timid nature allows us to speed tie with Magearna at 251 Spe (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/), which has the same base Spe (65). Believe me, this is really effective and unexpected.
The remaining EVs goes all into HP to make Pelipper a little bulkier.

0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 236-282 (68.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 170-204 (46.8 - 56.1%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 156-188 (51.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thoughts?

 

[tomtom5858]

I find that investing full EVs into Spe + Jolly nature can be a nice thing in order to outspeed with U-turn some specific threats. This makes sense if you really want to have the opportunity to optimize U-turn support, but you can even use your STAB to wear down some key threats. This is possible because Hurricane, even if it is uninvested, has an high base power and Scald is boosted by rain.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 192 HP / 64 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald/Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost

64 SpD EVs are to avoid a 2HKO from 4 SpA EVs Pheromosa's Ice Beam.
?

4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 192 HP / 64 SpD Pelipper: 136-161 (44 - 52.1%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO

You don't avoid the 2HKO when you drop 60 EVs from HP.

 

[ExXIII]

And a slow U-Turn > a fast one for a rain team.

 

[Gimmick]

I find that investing full EVs into Spe + Jolly nature can be a nice thing in order to outspeed with U-turn some specific threats. This makes sense if you really want to have the opportunity to optimize U-turn support, but you can even use your STAB to wear down some key threats. This is possible because Hurricane, even if it is uninvested, has an high base power and Scald is boosted by rain.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 192 HP / 64 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald/Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost

64 SpD EVs are to avoid a 2HKO from 4 SpA EVs Pheromosa's Ice Beam most of the time.
252 EVs in Spe 9 Timid nature allows us to speed tie with Magearna at 251 Spe (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-speed-tiers.3587531/), which has the same base Spe (65). Believe me, this is really effective and unexpected.
The remaining EVs goes all into HP to make Pelipper a little bulkier.

0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 236-282 (68.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 170-204 (46.8 - 56.1%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 156-188 (51.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thoughts?

One of the reasons that Pelipper is so good is because it has a slow U-turn. It's bulky enough to take most non-super effective hits and then U-turn out into a partner, such as Kingdra or Kabutops. Later on, you can then find a chance to Roost off the damage you took and repeat the process. Thus, not only does Pelipper set up rain, but it also safely brings in many of the Pokemon that abuse it. I really don't recommend this set at all since it doesn't have the ability to take hits as well nor will it bring in a rain sweeper safely against things that it outspeeds (think SubPunch Buzzwole, Heatran, Bisharp, Breloom, Landorus-T, Azumarill, etc).

I've actually started using a Relaxed nature Pelipper because it boosts U-turn's power ever so slightly and underspeeds some key things, most notably Celesteela so that you can U-turn out after it goes for Leech Seed, essentially making their turn useless. It also underspeeds Clefable, but I haven't seen much Clefable so idk how relevant that is.

 

[xelax22977]

Does anyone has offensive EV spread for pelipper? or is it just modest 252 spa / 252 spe? Thanks

 

[PShine]

I feel like Pelipper has a nice niche in that it is a defensive mon who can be used in a Offensive team without sticking like a sore thumb, due to Scald and Hurricane's strength and the Slow U-Turn keeping momentum, while being able to Tank some mons a Offensive team has trouble with. In fact, it's most common core (PeliKoko) is a great example of that.