Parental Bond

Status
Not open for further replies.
Will take Frosty's example (please don't sue me).

+0 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) = 13.5 Dmg
+0 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (4.5 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) = 9 Dmg
Total: 22.5 Dmg

+2 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 4 = 17.5 Dmg
+2 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (4.5 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 4 = 13 Dmg
Total: 30.5 Dmg

+4 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 8 = 21.5 Dmg
+4 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (4.5 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 8 = 17 Dmg
Total: 38.5 Dmg

+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 12 = 25.5 Dmg
+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (4.5 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 12 = 21 Dmg
Total: 46.5 Dmg

Wow... that's... a lot...

Now with halved damage for the second hit:

+0 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) = 13.5 Dmg
+0 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) / 2 = 6.75 Dmg
Total: 20.25 Dmg

+2 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 4 = 17.5 Dmg
+2 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): ((9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 4) / 2 = 8.75 Dmg
Total: 26.25 Dmg

+4 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 8 = 21.5 Dmg
+4 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): ((9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 8) / 2 = 10.75 Dmg
Total: 32.25 Dmg

+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 12 = 25.5 Dmg
+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 6) + 12) / 2 = 12.75 Dmg
Total: 38.25 Dmg

Still a TON of damage, but it helps a little. Note that, the lower the Defense rank of the target and the higher Kangas' boost stage, the bigger the difference we get from halving the damage from the second hit. Let's maul another Diglett (extreme example ahead):

+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 1.5) + 12 = 30 Dmg
+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): (4.5 + 3 + 7.5 - 1.5) + 12= 25.5 Dmg
Total: 55.5 Dmg

+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Diglett: (9 + 3 + 7.5 - 1.5) + 12 = 30 Dmg
+6 Body Slam Neutral Mega Kangaskhan vs Neutral Pinsir (Parental Bond hit): ((9 + 3 + 7.5 - 1.5) + 12) / 2 = 15 Dmg
Total: 45 Dmg

Not so much of a nerf, but then comes the EN increase. It does need to be relatively high to make up, since a lot of Mega Kangas' attacks have low energy cost. I think that maybe a 50% EN increase would be fine, since he's dealing tons of damage for very little cost (20.25 with a neutral hit, 9 BAP, no boosts and only a single rank difference is a lot for only 6.666 EN (before STAB); 9.99999 is a little more acceptable.). Also, crits done by the child should only increase damage by 1.5 instead of 3. As you may have noticed, I think the increase should be done before applying STAB.

Heck, now I even think that halving the damage of the total hit and a 50% increase in EN cost is too little. Maybe halve the whole thing TWICE could be done, but I have some things to do right now so can't do calcs, and that may be a little excesive, considering it IS a Mega and it IS supposed to be powerful (not as grossly powerful as it is right now, but powerful). It would still get the extra chance of secondary effects and so, meaning it would still be pretty darn powerful even if we make so big of a nerf to the damage.

Also, definitely make this non-traceable/skill swapped/role played/etc. Also, would it be affected by Gastro Acid?
 
Last edited:
I have read all proposals and SWF is the only one I think does the most simple fix without making the ability useless, +50% BP alone it's a great boost, it will always give you at least +2 BP on any attack, since that's the minimum BP of any non-multi-hit move (and those you can't boost anyway), this is the minimum which is equal to the majority of boosting abilities, still! thanks to MegaKhan's movepool she's got access to a lot of high powered moves, 8, 9, 10 & 11 BP moves are common sight on MegaKhan, she even's got Giga Impact, Focus Punch and Hyper Beam doing damage comparable to most combos, this along with an Energy Cost increase are good enough simple changes that are easy to apply and fix the problems in my eyes.

Ps: For a toggle effect how about: If this ability is turned off then all multi-hit attacks will have a +1 hit (Capped at 5), like the bug STAB?
 
I think that what should happen is that Parental Bond is toggle-able.

When on, all attacks will hit twice, with the second hit dealing half normal damage. The energy cost should be subtracted for each hit, without reduction for the second hit. If the move has an energy cost that varies depending on the damage, then the cost for the second hit is determined from that hit's damage. All additional effects get checked each hit. If the first hit breaks a substitute, the second hit hits the foe. Any items that could be triggered by the pokemon dropping below a certain HP can be triggered between attacks, if the condition is met. Multi-hit moves will still be executed twice, and the damage from the second hit is halved. By default, it is on.

When off, it has no effects.
 
*1.5 BAP + spillover damage + checking twice for effects + considering this as one attack for all other intentions and purposes (like brine, disruption and the like) seems good enough for me. Its simple, still a nice boost and isn't that complicated.

EDIT: To elaborate a bit on the last part: I feel that regardless of ingame, if we consider this as two attacks, it opens such a can of worms... Brine, Rollout, Ice Ball, Trump Card, Metronome (item) if used with Parental Bond will make calcs more complicated than they should be. And how do we consider moves such as overheat or power-up punch? the second attack gets a boost? If we go deep here, we will end up with this being 1 attack for some purposes and 2 attacks for other. Aka it will become a mess.

The two effects I've listed (spillover and Checking twice) are the biggest things (IMO) about Parental Bond (and the extra damage). Aside from those, just pretend this is Technician on roids and we should be good.
 
Last edited:
im still a little worried about power levels because kanga can out-energy anyone now, but at least frosty's isn't obviously broken as all hell so we'll see how it pans out from frosty's solution.
 
I agree, it's simple and straighforward but an energy increase should be applied since it's a logical progression from technician's effect (+50% energy cost still seems like the better option as it affects all moves the same and it's a fair increase for the extra damage)
 
Actually it is SWF's proposal with a tweak.

Yeah that goes with an energy increase. The thing with +50% energy is that we don't use that very often. Usually we increase by a flat amount (see pressure, technician and skill link).

Maybe +3? It's the average 50%.
 
How do you propose to handle trample damage on subs? Does the attack simply roll over the extra damage? j/w since this would deviate from in-game and such

Supporting the rest of the proposal and either a flat or percentage EN increase
 
The reason I prefer 50% rather than a flat +X is that it affects the weak moves and the strong moves on the same way, since you're gonna be affecting 4 BP moves as well as 12 BP moves then the effect makes stronger moves have a better dmg-energy ratio than the weaker ones, Technician and Skill Link are restricted to <6 BP moves & 10-15 BP moves respectively, meanwhile this one affects all damaging moves from 4 BP to 15 BP, that means a fixed amount is too restrictive for the range of damage that MegaKhan does
 
So uhhh I tried to make a slate but I kept failing at it because imo nothing beats Frosty's proposal for how to handle damage. Soooo what I think we'll do is tentatively adopt that and vote on energy. We'll leave this thread open for the duration of the Energy vote just in case anyone really objects to Frosty's proposal, but hopefully its acceptable to everyone.

Tentatively adopted: Parental Bond will have the following effects on any damaging move by the user. It will increase the BAP of the selected move by 1.5. Spillover damage will occur on Substitutes. Secondary effects will activate or be rolled for twice. The attack will be considered a single attack for all other move effects (i.e. Natural Gift, Brine, Multi-Hit, etc). Energy will be increased by x for each move.

Where x is to be replaced by the winner of the following poll:

a) Half the Energy Cost of the original move
b) 1/3 of the original BAP cost
c) +3 energy flat
d) +5 energy flat
e) Don't increase Energy Cost
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top