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Other OU Theorymon [Revamped]

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alexwolf said:
I think it's because most Scizor use Light Metal because they are holding Scizorite, so the ability slot ends up empty.
Click to expand...

Oh yah, that is a valid point. Been so long since I've seen someone just use a regular Scizor that I forget its easier just to mega it to get the ability. There is that cleared up then.
 
Alright yall, while the voting process commences, let us begin on the ever important campaign trail!




Paid for by the Committee to Elect People


This, in the waning days of August, it is now more imperative to trust those with power more than ever but who would one go to trust? The Damn bird's who once led their lives with the preposterous defeatism mentality for over a Generation? The toad that fills a niche that is absurd to begin with? Or even the damn meteoric space dancer whos prime is long since past?

No true candidate is there among them, but go, and vote this voting cycle of of our Theorymon, for power!






Campaigning starts NOW!
 
When deciding who the best candidate is, do we think Electivire? No, for he relies on brute force to complete tasks, never putting thought into his actions. Do you vote for Seismitoad? No, for he does not try to use his own talents, and tries to become what others are. Do you vote for Jirachi? No, for his ability to grant wishes is merely an illusion, as he takes from others to grant the wishes of people. With a vigorous spirit that never flags, and catching a second wind as if being reborn as a phoenix, Archeops is the man that people should vote for.

 
Jirachi,
250px-385Jirachi.png

Grants free wishes every thousand years. But what does it do in between? SLEEPS!

Don't vote for the lazy candidate, vote for the one with a Vital Spirit that will never rest until your opponents lie in ruin. Vote for Archeops

archeops_by_xous54-d3cyx2z.png
 
Alright, we've got a bit to wrap up here.

First, Valmanway is now a new member of our council as despite the project still being in its early stages, he has shown exceptional effort and has been very enthusiastic.

Second, let's wrap up the votes, shall we?

Vital Spirit Archeops: 13

Steel / Fairy Jirachi: 8

Recover Seismitoad: 0

Sheer Force Electivire: 5

Which means:

250px-567Archeops.png


HAHAHA I WON (BAN ME PLEASE)S

Here's our new slate!

460-mega.png
(+ Technician) Notable buffs: Frost Breath, Bullet Seed, Ice Shard. Suggested by Salemance
319.png
(+ Baton Pass) Notable Buffs: Speed Boost + Baton Pass combination. Suggested by unfixable

486_Regigigas.png
(+ Klutz) Notable Buffs: Now can use its coverage moves, at the cost of no Life Orb or Leftovers. Suggested by AOPSUser

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(+ Normal / Ghost Typing) Notable Buffs: Now only weak to Dark, and gets STAB on Shadow Ball. Suggested by Mysteria

Alright guys, let's get discussing guys!
 
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Poor Seismitoad. Not even a single vote went towards him. Anyways...

Technician Mega Abomasnow: I actually really like this idea, as it greatly aids in his wallbreaking role. Technician Ice Shard has always been an idea that people fantasized about, and seeing this, combined with Bullet Seed, Frost Breath, and a Hidden Power, would make this pretty legit. Plus, removing Hail Warning makes him more flexible with team building now that non Ice-type teammates don't suffer from passive damage, so that's nice.

Baton Pass Sharpedo: On one hand, he can pass Speed Boost boosts, which can really help a buddy out. On the other hand though, so can Scolipede. Scolipede has much better bulk and boosting moves in Swords Dance and Iron Defense, so Sharpedo certainly has competition there to say the least. Other than that, not a bad idea by any means, as the support is nice.

Techno Blast Magnezone: This is a much needed buff, as Magnezone can effectively take out any relevant Steel-type not named Heatran with a Burn Drive Techno Blast. Alternatively, you can use a Douse Drive to take Heatran on and just use Hidden Power Fire for the others. A very convenient boost indeed.

Normal / Ghost type Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z gaining a Ghost typing is pretty cool, as he can now threaten Fighting-types more easily, and the Normal typing ensures that you're immune to Ghost-type moves, so you're only weak to Dark. There are only two Pokemon that resist Normal / Ghost coverage, but they happen to be Tyranitar and Bisharp, so keep Hidden Power Fighting handy at all times. Other than that, this is a pretty decent idea.
 
Technician Mega Abomnasnow
Not a bad idea but I really hate to take away it's signature ability, Snow Warning. I suppose in the grand scheme of things Technician is better but still.

Baton Pass Sharpedo
I like this idea because now if Sharpedo gets stopped cold by, lets say Ferrothorn, it can switch out without wasting its boosts. However it faces competition from Scolipede who learns boosting moves and can take a hit and Sharpedo would have even worse 4MSS.

Techno Blast Magnezone
This is pretty cool but isnt Magnezone already a top tier threat? Whatever...Anyways I almost think Douse Drive would be better than Burn Drive because it could take out Heatran and Excadrill while also nailing grounds such as landorus, landorus-t, gliscor, hippowdon, etc. who think they can switch into a choice locked volt switch. Techno Blast also seems pretty flavorful for Magnezone too.

Normal/Ghost Porygon Z
Too bad this wasnt here when Aegislash was around...Adaptability Shadow Ball would be amazing and Porygon Z would have great coverage between its two STABs alone. I could almost see it being paired with something like Dugtrio to take out Tyranitar and Bisharp and free up a moveslot so it could use both Nasty Plot and Agility, but then again Dugtrio sorta sucks. I feel as if this one would be the best in the current metagame of the four, however my vote is in a tossup between Porygon Z and Magnezone. The ghost typing doesnt really seem in flavor with Porygon Z but I guess im still leaning towards it.
 
techno blast magnezone sounds terrible. there is absolutely no need for this buff. by using a drive you miss out on scarf which means you lose one of magnezone's main draw of being a great mega pinsir check, or specs which means you lack the sufficient power to fire off those denting volt switches. with the fire drive you can beat ferrothorn scizor i guess, but so does specs hidden power which has the advantage of having strong volt switches. water drive is ass because you'd only give up scarf or specs for a drive if you really wanted to lure something, in this case heatran, but if you really wanted to lure heatran you could just use specs hidden power ground and not be useless vs the teams lacking heatran. why would i ever give up scarf or specs for this.

also can we please abolish the pathetic "campaigning your chosen pokemon change", it makes the thread terrible and there's virtually no reason for it. just stick to logical posting.
 
Klutz Regigigas is a fairly interesting Pokemon to say the least. Sure, the lack of an item can be a pain, but with 110 / 110 / 110 defenses, you don't really need Leftovers that badly, and 160 Attack can dish out some pain against more offensive teams, even without an item. Sadly, Klutz means no Choice Band or Life Orb, so wallbreaking isn't easily pulled off, not without some serious team support anyways. Furthermore, your only attack boosting move is Power-Up Punch, so he struggles against stall. His Speed does him few favors as well, so HO can wear him down quickly enough, though Regigigas does have some serious bulk, so he can take a hit and retaliate. It was kind of cool at first sight, but now that I actually look at it closer up, I'm not too keen on this one.
 
Klutz Regigigas seems to be not a bad idea. It can almost be counted as Mega Evolved pokemon because of high stats (160 Atk, 100 Speed, 670 BST) and inability to use an item. The main advantage is that it doesn't take Mega slot and the main disadvantage is in its ability which doesn't give useful effects.
While it can't use Leftovers, it has nice coverage move in form of Drain Punch which allows it to restore HP on something weak to Fighting
252 Atk Regigigas Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 356-420 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Or it can take Superpower just for sheer power. It also has Knock Off for Ghosts and Fire Punch for Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor. Ice Punch has 50% chance to OHKO SubToxic Gliscor after Stealth Rock. Still, Gigas can't do much to Skarmory.
Oh, and also it can hold Flame Orb just for fun of someone Tricking item on the switch to Gigas.
 
Honestly any ability is better than slow start, much like vital spirit archeops. The only sad part is that Regigigas doesn't get trick or switcheroo like klutz lopunny.
Dat amazing 160 attack is slightly less glorious without band/orb to boost it's power or scarf to fix that meh 100 speed, but it can still break walls like a boss. Overall a pretty good bulky attacker, weaker than Kyub but has more longitivity with drain punch and bulk. Burns will hurt though, so it might be outclassed by Conklderp.
While I see it running no items to counter knock off more often than not, there's quite a few negitive effect items it can use to screw with trick/switcheroo:
  • Iron Ball: 1.5 speed -> .5 speed, revenge killer -> dead weight, also removes ground immunity. Priority users don't care, but most priority users don't have scarf + trick
  • Sticky Barb: chip damage is always good, especially since this one just require a contact attack so you could get it on skarm once a team mate taunts it, not sure if it replaces the original item completely though
  • Flame/Toxic Orb: flame orb is probably better, since trick users are scarfers who don't usually stay long enough for toxic to out damage burn.
  • Ring Target: Removal of immunities is interesting, but the only trick user more affected by this than iron ball is Klefki, who loses dragon and poison immunity, poison especially hurts since it is now weak to poison
  • Lagging Tail: Basically an iron ball but always moves last without priority, meh
Aside from that there's also some more gimmicky fling items. Fling requires moveslot and is a one time thing though I can't imagine anyone using this seriously since regigigas doesn't get recycle. Would be anti-meta if there was a meta
  • Iron Ball: most powerful fling at 130 bp but generally outclassed by knock off
  • Flame/Toxic Orb and Light Ball: Burns/Poisons/Paralyses, the only one Regi doesn't have via movepool is burn as it gets thunder wave and toxic already. It's untaunt-able and flinged light ball can paralyse ground types.
  • King's Rock/Razor Fang: Flinches enemy like fake out, but doesn't have +3 prority, would be cool if Regi had a better speed tier but it's weaker than freaking tackle.
  • EV Lowering Berries: Only Tamato(-Speed) is actually viable, since speed is the only stat where one point changes everything. I don't know if it actually works like that(bulbapedia says flinged berries activates their effects on the target) and none of these berries are programed into showdown yet.
tl;dr: Regigigas finially has usable stats, Klutz is kool but otherwise gimmicky, fits into balanced teams well and supports others a little by being trick immune
 
Technician Abomosnow is a good idea, but bullet punch and flying priority are both common and most either outspeed it or can take anything it can throw at it. I don't need convincing on 60 BP ice shards, but I do need convincing strong steel types, fast fire types, and birdspam won't render this ineffective.

Baton Pass Sharpedo is probably a good idea, but I hate baton pass so I won't vote for it :(

Normal/Ghost Porygon-Z sounds good to me. Only one weakness, effective at using double dance sets, adaptability STAB Shadow Balls, and almost perfect coverage. That base speed still stinks, but I'll do some tests to see how effective it is at getting agilities off or attacking without it. Right now this is the most interesting for me.

Klutz Regigigas is the ultimate bulky attacker with superpowered returns and knock offs, but without recovery of any kind, speed too slow to realistically sweep, and nonexistent SE STAB coverage, I'm skeptical at its real value. It's probably misplaced, look at the other slow attackers that have thrived recently, but I'll start testing this guy as well
 
I'm on my iPod, so I can't check if there's any reason at all to use Sharpedo over Scoliopede. I believe the latter has much better defenses and can boost with Iron Defense as well.

I like the comparison with Regi- and Mega Pokemon. The lack of a good ability is very painful for it though. The best he can do is troll on the switch for trick or switcheroo.

I'll probably post again later on my computer.

Probably.
 
Kairyu_Gen1 said:
Klutz Regigigas is the ultimate bulky attacker with superpowered returns and knock offs, but without recovery of any kind, speed too slow to realistically sweep, and nonexistent SE STAB coverage, I'm skeptical at its real value. It's probably misplaced, look at the other slow attackers that have thrived recently, but I'll start testing this guy as well
Click to expand...

Regigigas has drain punch, it's weaker than conkelderp's drain punch due to lack of stab but still deals a good amount. I don't really think Superpower meshes too well with its bulk since it's not (and can't really be) a hit and run mon like CB Scizor or Azumarill. Instead, if it really wants a powerful fighting move I see it running a Sub Punch set with 101 HP substitutes, firing off 150 bp focus punches from a 460 attack with return and knock off as coverage. Speed can be fixed with rock polish and setting up is easy you have 110/110/110 bulk. There's quite a bit of potential honestly, even if normal stab is meh without extreme speed.

I haven't talk much about the other three pokes in my last post, so here's my input.
Technician Mega Abomnasnow
30 base Spe might as well be 0 Spe, but a technician ice shard from 132 base attack kills 4x weak targets. Mega Abomnasnow has good mix attacking stats but decent bulk crippled by 7 weaknesses, of which Bird, Steel and Fight has major priority users.
Movepool wise, Abomnasnow now has (bold indicates stab):
  • Physical: Ice shard (60bp), Avalanche (90bp even when not damaged), Bullet Seed (37.5bp, 2~5 hit), Bulldoze (90bp) and Rock Tomb (90bp)
  • Special: Frost Breath (90bp and always crits! essentially 135bp) Icy Wind (82.5bp) Magical Leaf (90bp) and various Hidden Powers
I'm inclined towards a physically biased set because Ice shard, bullet seed bulldoze and frost breath. However I feel that even with technician ice shard it's too priority weak itself to do anything other than revenge killing a few threats, who could just switch out anytime. Frost Breath is damn powerful though.

Baton Pass Sharpedo
Speed Boost Baton pass is cool, but it's outclassed by Scolipede who has better bulk and iron def to deal with priority users, it's not exactly a role we haven't seen in ou either.

Normal/Ghost Porygon-Z
Even without that massive SpA and adaptability, just the unique typing of Normal/Ghost gives it a niche as the only poke immune to Ghost/Fighting coverage. Normal Porygon is already awesome as a wallbreaker down in UU, and now that it has great neutral coverage between it's dual stabs(resisted only by Bisharp, who's frail) it could make it's mark up here in OU too. One thing thing bad about it is that it's now weak to dark, specifically sucker punch and knock off. Due to this, I don't see choiced sets as viable as set up sweep or LO all out attack sets. Shadow ball+Tri Attack's gonna hurt like hell, add in HP fighting for bisharp and psyshock for chansey and you've got a terrifying wallbreaker right there.
 
Klutz Regigigas is completely useless. No resistances or recovery to take advantage of that nice bulk, just good Speed so it doesn't fare great against offensive teams either, and very lacking in power due to lack of a good STAB and inability to use items. If you really want a bulky and powerful Normal-type just use Eviolite Analytic Porygon 2, which hits just as hard (hits harder when using coverage moves, but has less power when using STAB moves, but most of the time you will want to be using coverage moves anyway), is much bulkier, and has reliable recovery:
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 255-302 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 192-227 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I guess the extra Speed can be nice to outspeed some important Pokemon such as Mega Heracross, and a few others, but even then Regigigas doesn't have the power to OHKO Mega Heracross (61 - 72.3%), and is not hard at all to wall with almost any physical wall / pivot:
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 138-163 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Superpower vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 166-196 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 133-157 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 163-193 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 36 HP / 220+ Def Alomomola: 183-216 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  • -1 252+ Atk Regigigas Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 220-260 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And if you use Regigigas as a fast bulky attacker instead of a bulky tank, why not use Terrakion, Keldeo, or any of the other fast hard hitters that are more difficult to wall and provide actual resistances? To give you an example of how crippling the lack of item is, here is a comparison between Regigigas's and LO Terrakion's power:
  • 252+ Atk Regigigas Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-169 (36 - 42.8%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
So, Terrakion hits just as hard with its weaker STAB move, while being able to hit a ton of important Pokemon for super effective damage and help check Pokemon such as Heatran, Bisharp, and Mega Charizard Y with its resistances.



Baton Pass Sharpedo is not that interesting either, because it lacks bulk. For offensive Baton Pass users to be good partners to other offensive Pokemon they must either have good synergy with them or be able to boost their defenses (see Scolipede). When you don't even need to hit Sharpedo with a super effective move to take it out, you just can't pick the right partners to Baton Pass the boosts to, simply because anything that can take a hit from Sharpedo or has priority is a check.



Technician Mega Abomasnow is a very interesting idea though. A set of Ice Shard / Bullet Seed / Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire seems the best from a quick glance, with max Attack and some Speed to outrun some slow walls. Let's see some calcs:
  • 252+ Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (42 - 49.5%) -- approx. 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (If you get three hits with both attacks or 4-5 hits with the first attack you almost always take out Chansey after SR, and you can outspeed it with near maximum Speed investment)
  • 252+ Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 290-344 (96.9 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
  • 252+ Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 16 SpA Technician Mega Abomasnow Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 16 SpA Technician Mega Abomasnow Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 256-304 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  • 16 SpA Technician Mega Abomasnow Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 222-262 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. With SR up, EQ + Ice Shard 2HKOes
  • 252+ Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 135-159 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 168-200 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So, with just SR up nothing walls Mega Abomasnow except from Mega Venusaur and that strong Ice Shard is also immensely useful. Aboma can even go special to get past Mega Venusaur, thanks to a 135 BP Frost Breath before STAB, but Ice Shard + Bullet Seed are the real reasons to use Mega Aboma, so i don't think that going special is worth it.
 
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Technician Mega Abomasnow: I like this idea. Frost Breath is significantly more powerful than Blizzard and Abomasnow can make better use of Ice Shard, Hidden Power Fire, Bulldoze, and Rock Tomb (although its shitty speed makes the latter two not that great). Also, Synthesis now becomes an option for semi-reliable recovery now that it doesn't have to cause Hail.

Baton Pass Sharpedo: Mostly outclassed by Scolipede. Moving on.

Normal / Ghost Porygon-Z: Tri Attack + Shadow Ball + HP Fighting allows it to hit every Pokemon in OU for good damage except Chansey. You could drop HP Fighting which is only needed for TTar and to OHKO Bisharp on the switch (LO Shadow Ball 2HKOs, but now Porygon-Z can't take a Sucker Punch) and run a Double Dance set with Nasty Plot and Agility. Specs and Scarf sets could be really good especially since Porygon-Z gets Trick. I am deciding between Abomasnow and this.

Klutz Regigigas: Alexwolf already said a lot about why this sucks, so I won't beat a dead horse. I'm sad because I suggested Normalize Regigigas which would be an ability with at least some positives as opposed to being a total detriment like Slow Start and Klutz.
 
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