OU Statistics — September 2013

[Viktor24]

252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 231-274 (55 - 65.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 253-298 (60.23 - 70.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I know it might miss in sand, but relying on hax ain't good for a wall)
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.71 - 60%) -- 85.94% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 269-317 (64.04 - 75.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (assuming Scizor sets up as Hippo switches in)
Hippo can only dream of switching into these pokes. Plus all of you are assuming that Hippo is always at full health. That's not the case because if Hippo switches in on a dangerous sweeper and phazes him out he'll be useless for the rest of the match(because he'll most likely be forced out afterward and can't use Slack Off) . Plus constant switching in will soon wear him down enough so that he's 2hkoed by many attacks. Other walls, e.g Skarmory, Gliscor and Slowbro(who also has Regenerator) take pitiful damages from the most important moves of certain threats (namely Outrage and CC. These attacks deal more damage than a super effective Crunch or Thunder Punch). This means that they can switch into these attacks many more times. Get it people, a wall that lacks BOTH a useful ability (for a WALL. I know that Hippo can set up sand and I never said he's bad at it. We're arguing wether or not he's a good wall) and resistances, will let you down.

That's cool and all, except for the part where you count SR and spikes when it comes to hippo but don't count any hazards at all with slowbro, it also gets 2HKO'd by both stone edge and X-scissor after sr and spikes, has a chance of being 2hko'd by stone edge after just SR and is likely to be 2hko'd by x-scissor after just sr.

Now, lets look at the best thing both hippo and slowbro can do to terrakion,

Hippowdon

assuming terrakion didnt close combat and did like no damage to hippo

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 260-308 (80.24 - 95.06%) -- 50% to OHKO after a layer of spikes or 2 SR switchins

assuming terrakion did close combat

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 390-458 (120.37 - 141.35%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Slowbro

assuming sand
4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 188-224 (58.02 - 69.13%)

assuming no sand
4 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 212-252 (65.43 - 77.77%)


Not to mention hippowdon can actually phase, and it has no common physical weaknesses unlike Slowbro who wouldn't dream of trying to wall SD Scizor.

Hippowdon is from my experience hands down the best physical wall, and one of the best mixed walls in OU, along with being the most reliable weather starter.


Hippo walls terrakion just as well as Slowbro does, and Slowbro doesn't wall physical victini ( CB Victini in sun 2HKO's with V-Create and you'll never see it outside of sun, Adamant Scarf Victini has a 80% chance of 2HKOing with bolt strike after rocks while adamant scarf victini never 2hko's hippo after rocks thanks to sand stream negating sun ).. Azumarill isn't really a thing anymore while feraligatr frequently carries crunch meaning it'll beat slowbro also.

Ok. You're right. Slowbro gets 2hkoed by X-scizzor and SE after sr and spikes, but he can always switch to a resist for these weaker moves(weaker than CC) while recovering most of the lost health with Regenerator. Even if hazards are off the field, Hippo will eventually lose that 15% somehow so sr and spikes aren't always necessary. Plus most defensive teams carry a spinner anyway so I admit the sr+spikes usage wasn't fair. You can replace it with "some residual damage" which Hippo will most likely get anyway.
Now, we both know that no Terra user is dumb enough to keep him in if he can't ko. Now Slowbro can use Scald which hits more targets than EQ and has 30% chance to burn the switch in while Hippo will be forced to use Slack Off (Using EQ is plain dumb due to the many immunities) in order to stay healthy.
Slowbro's resistances will always come in handy and allows the use of good defensive cores (Slowbro + Skarmory for example cover a myraid of physical threats). Hippo on the other hand lacks a good resistance to complement a good pair. Admit it, Hippo would be pretty damn outclassed by Gliscor and Lando-T if it wasn't for the sand he brings. Sometimes IMO the sand isn't really worth it if you aren't playing Sand Stall or using Stoutland.

 

[Spinda]

I use sand force hippo on sun stall, so don't tell me it would be outclassed if it wasn't for the sand stream, whirlwind, a rock resistance, lack of a 4x ice weakness ( allowing it to actually wall lando-t and pokemon like terrakion who tend to carry HP ice quite a bit ), superior sheer bulk, not having to rely on intimidate and having reliable recovery is HUGE.
CB Terrakion and CB Tyranitar are a bitch to stall, the rock resist is a lot more important than a fighting resist when it comes to walling these threats on a stall team, due to stall frequently carrying a spinblocker to handle close combat anyway

It's also great on more balanced or offensive teams because it doesn't have many physical weaknesses, it relies on sheer bulk to cover physical threats meaning you don't have to worry about another physical wall, just carry offensive checks to the few things it doesn't handle ( Gyarados, Breloom and Feraligatr, pretty much )

 

[Meru]

2- His typing is 10 times more useful than Hippo. Resistances to fighting(most importantly), water, ice and fire help him wall dangerous threats to Defensive teams like Terrakion , Victini and Azumarill all of whom Hippo fails to wall.

I can say with complete certainty that Jellicent is one of Hippowdon's top five partners, and it handles all of those threats with ease. Not to mention wtf? Hippowdon is a perfectly viable answer since most Terrakions these days are choiced or Rock Gem which Hippo hard counters.(unlike Slowbro)

And then you went on to say Regenerator is a better ability than Sand Stream? Okay no. Don't get me wrong, Regenerator is chill af but if you're 2HKO'd on the switch, you're 2HKO'd on the switch.

 

[Viktor24]

Obviously people ignore 90% of my post when replying. For the sake of god, reread my last posts and most of what I'd have to repeat is there.
Slowbro + Skarm handles all the threats both of you mentioned but seriously, Jellicent + Hippo? some of the top physical threats to stall, namely Breloom, Gyarados (Jellicent fails to break subs, Slowbro breaks with psychic), Dragonite, Haxorus, Garchomp and some others I don't remember now all easily break this core.
Lando-T and Gliscor can both take Stone Edges from Terrakion. Actually, with its bad accuracy and less power, Stone Edge isn't much of a worry at all. I'd so rather use something that resists Fighting and Bug and isn't weak to grass (for taking on Breloom, a great fighting mon) and has a useful ability FOR A WALL, than use Hippo. Therefore IMO Gliscor (and Lando-T to an extent, but his role is somewhat different) outclasses Hippo.

 

[Halcyon.]

Why are we even having this debate? Hippo IS sand stall. If you want to use weatherless stall with landot, Skarm, and Slowbro (um, you talk about being weak to common attackers and then mention a core wrecked by Keldeo???), then be my guest. But have fun losing to any other stall team with its own weather, as you will be at a serious disadvantage. Hippowdon is useful because it is a great physical wall that also happens to have Sand Stream. That's it. If it didn't have that, then yes, it would be outclassed by Gliscor for the most part (not Lando-T, though, as Landorus doesn't have recovery), but it DOES have it, so it IS one of the bets physical walls a stall team can use. Also, if you're using Stoutland, it would be best to use Hippowdon regardless of the team's orientation, because it is the best at keeping sand up due to its high defenses and recovery.

 

[Arcticblast]

You're still hugely undervaluing Hippowdon. It literally has everything a wall could possibly want. Good typing (not great, but SR resist), a useful ability, reliable recovery, hazards (Stealth Rock), phasing, and the ability to hit back in a pinch - Slowbro, Lando-T, Gliscor, and Skarmory are all missing at least one of these. Sand Stream is definitely a good ability for a wall - walls are designed to take hits and wear down the opponent. Is a guaranteed 1/12 of your opponent's HP taken off every turn not "wearing down" enough for you?

Basically, Hippowdon is a better wall than Slowbro because it can do something in almost every situation it's in. Slowbro kind of sits there as your opponent sets up on it, be it hazards from a Ferrothorn or Quiver Dances from a Volcarona. Sometimes Slowbro can Thunder Wave (having fun against a Garchomp...). Hippowdon hits back - hard, can phaze out someone trying to set up, and can set up SR on its own. Its Sand Stream goes a long way in team support, removing the opponent's weather (or adding a bit of residual damage against weatherless) which can give you a simple advantage or a very obvious one (coming in on a rampaging Venusaur then switching out to a check). Hippowdon does things. Slowbro doesn't.

Also, Hippowdon takes Outrages a ton better than Slowbro due to higher HP and Defense.