Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

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Schizzors said:
I hate to be the double posting dick here, but Stop talking about MMence checks cause MMence will be banned when ORAS comes out. He is AIDS to the meta and needs to die in a fucking hole in Ubers.
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The viability list should be reflecting how the metagame is currently, not how it will be in the future. If Mega Salamence is impacting a certain Pokemon's viability, then said Pokemon should be moved to the appropriate rank to reflect its viability in the metagame. Once Mega Salamence is banned, then the Pokemon's rank can be changed again to reflect its viability in the new metagame.
EDIT: Ninja'd
 
koista12 said:
Mega bro has reliable recovery and can burn gallade with scald. it most definitely walls mega gallade.
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It has a 30% chance of burning, whilst failing to 2HKO with Scald. Megallade, meanwhile, 2HKOs 50% of the time at +2, which means Megabro is unable to Slack Off its Knock Offs. Megabro in no way 'walls' Gallade. Gallade can't switch into it by any means, but Megabro can't switch into Gallade either.
 
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Metagross should remain A+. I can attest that its stats and ability look amazing on paper, but it is severely held back from 4MSS to be considered S. As was mentioned, its STABs are pretty poor in terms of coverage. This isn't Scrappy Mega Lopunny that's for sure. It requires more support than an S rank mon should. If you're going to say its bulk makes it S rank, its defensive weaknesses and lack of recovery make this less so in practice. Requires Wish/Heal Bell support if you're going to use it as a constant pivot that can hit hard. The other problem is its means to boost its Attack. It doesn't get Swords Dance or Dragon Dance like most threatening sweepers. It's instead relegated to Hone Claws or fishing for a Meteor Mash boost. Agility lets it sweep end game quite well, but not necessarily better than many other cleaners. Certainly not better than Salamence or Gyarados for instance who are both far better at wallbreaking and have better defensive typing along with comparable bulk. Unlike Salamence, Zard X and Gyarados, Metagross can't get by on his STABs alone. Salamence can go mixed or simply overpower with mono-Flying STAB, Salamence and Zard X have Roost to recover health and stay in the game, Gyarados has Mold Breaker Taunt and can run Sub as well. I'd also possibly argue that Mega Altaria is better functionally than Metagross as a bulky sweeper thanks to its Godsend of typing in Dragon/Fairy, better boosting moves and access to recovery as well.

All that being said Metagross is indeed one of the better Megas to come about in ORAS, but it is not S worthy in terms of niche, independence or function. If it had access to something like Bulk Up, Shift Gear or Recover, then that'd be an entirely different story, but as it stands, it doesn't meet the standards for S. It's biggest advantage is running a bulky Agility set that gives it enough speed to outrun many common scarf users, making it a relatively safe cleaner if Sucker Punch users are gone.
 
doublade.gif


B- to B

Okay, I'm not entirely sure why this hasn't been brought up yet, so here I go. In my opinion, ORAS has done nothing but be kinda to Doublade. A huge amount of the megas are now running rampant, and Doublade can easily check a good portion of them. Mega Gallade can't do much, and Doublade can hit it with Gyro Ball or Shadow Sneak if it's running it. Mega Diancie and Mega Altaria faint to Gyro Ball. Mega Latias can potentially hit it hard, but Doublade can either use Rest or retaliate. Mega Sceptile can barely touch it, and Hidden Power Fire, even if it's uncommon, can hit it while Doublade easily KOs back with Gyro (or deals a chunk of damage and finishes it with Sneak). Earthquake from megagross hurts, but you can still hit it hard with Claw or Sneak. Mega Salamence can only use Fire Blast, but any bulky set without it easily faces huge trouble from Doublade. Beedrill literally cannot touch Doublade in any way. Mega Slowbro is somewhat threatened, but it will usually outlast Doublade.

Given the fact that Doublade, singlehandedly, checks half (probably more) of the new megas, it should absolutely rise to B, if not higher.

edit: fuck your audino​
 
Mysteria said:
doublade.gif


B- to B

Okay, I'm not entirely sure why this hasn't been brought up yet, so here I go. In my opinion, ORAS has done nothing but be kinda to Doublade. A huge amount of the megas are now running rampant, and Doublade can easily check a good portion of them. Mega Gallade can't do much, and Doublade can hit it with Gyro Ball or Shadow Sneak if it's running it. Mega Diancie and Mega Altaria faint to Gyro Ball. Mega Latias can potentially hit it hard, but Doublade can either use Rest or retaliate. Mega Sceptile can barely touch it, and Hidden Power Fire, even if it's uncommon, can hit it while Doublade easily KOs back with Gyro (or deals a chunk of damage and finishes it with Sneak). Earthquake from megagross hurts, but you can still hit it hard with Claw or Sneak. Mega Salamence can only use Fire Blast, but any bulky set without it easily faces huge trouble from Doublade. Beedrill literally cannot touch Doublade in any way. Mega Slowbro is somewhat threatened, but it will usually outlast Doublade.

Given the fact that Doublade, singlehandedly, checks half (probably more) of the new megas, it should absolutely rise to B, if not higher.​
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It hasn't been brought up because we're only discussing the S and A+ ranks right now.
 
How is Mega Salamence S rank? It has a worse ability then regular Salamence with Moxie and feels like you now have to run an obligatory flying type and get walled by steel types like Steelix/Skarmory/Kling Klang/Lucario otherwise your ability is completely useless. Not to mention the useless defense buffs on offensive pokemon that don't do anything just like Sharpedo because "lol defensive Wall Salamence". Even if it gets to +6 you can just use roar and regular Moxie Salamence gets up to +6 quicker and with better coverage just by KO'ing things. Not to mention Mega Salamence has a massive 4 move syndrome and half the time opponents don't even know what they want to use so I just use ice beam. At best Mega Salamence should be the same rank as regular Salamence and that's ONLY because it's a mega form.

TLDR: Don't use Mega Salamence it's completely outclassed by a pokemon in the same family with Moxie and Outrage why still having Fly for it's flying STAB
 
Mega Metagross A+>S
As many people said, 145 Attack + Tough Claws hits very hard and 150 base defense make him very hard to wear down. The Agility moveset outspeeds the whole metagame and the combination of stabs (Zen Headbutt + Meteor Mash), with Earthquake or an elemental punch (thunder punch or ice punch) has great coverage. It also has a monstrous typing and incredible bulk, and can also get +1 with some luck in a Meteor Mash and just finish the game.
 
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Demote from A+ Rank to A Rank
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Back in xy ou, azumarill was a fantastic pokemon because of its "all-purpose" nature. CB variants were deadly wallbreakers, BD variants could sweep entire teams at a moments notice and AV variants made fantastic offensive pivots. Looking into the oras metagame, azumarill really can't function the same anymore. CB azumarill can't pack the same punch, thanks to all of the new defensive megas that are being introduced. AV azumarill isn't the stellar offensive pivot it used to be ; greninja runs all over it with gunk shot, salamence can easily run through it, mega metagross isn't too worried about AV azumarill, gallade destroys azumarill after a boost, the rise in magnezone doesn't help either, etc. BD azumarill is its saving grace as no other pokemon in ou can possess the sweeping potential that bd azumarill has. that being said, azumarill deserves a rank not a+ rank. it's still a very strong, relevant ou threat but it isn't capable of pulling all the sets that it could prior to oras.
 
Let it go, Stallion. The demon is dead and can no longer troll us.

As for the MegaGross debate, as a wallbreaker I find it hard to compare to other wallbreakers in the A+ ranks. On one hand, I generally like it more than M-Gard. M-Gard has access to Taunt and Wisp, but you don't need a Mega to abuse Taunt or spread burns, and while it hits harder than MegaGross, I'm not sure how important that is:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I know that 8% is arguably a big deal, but 2HKO is a 2HKO, and while Metagross has less power, it has a much larger coverage pool to cover more ground than MegaGard.

My only issue is when you compare it to MeGallade. When MegaGross encounters something it's not carrying coverage for, it can have a hard getting over it and likely requires support to overcome it. MeGallade, on the other hand, can muscle over most walls by setting up SDs while sitting in that same nice speed tier. In return, MegaGross can also be a nice end-game Sweeper with Agility, which gives it a little more versatility than some of the other wallbreakers, and by versatility, I mean being a wallbreaker versus being a sweeper, not carrying Taunt versus carrying Will-o-wisp. I think this versatility is just enough to push MegaGross to S, though admittedly I would find it to be more of a lower-S threat like pre-ORAS Keldeo.

As for MeGallade, once again as a wallbreaker I believe the fact that it can muscle over a lot of its walls without relying immediately on other teammates is a very useful trait for a wallbreaker. While Bisharp and Mega Heracross have similar claims to fame, MeGallade benefits from being much faster than both of them. I would argue that you could run Shadow Sneak on MeGallade, giving him priority as well, but Bisharp's priority hits harder and I don't know if MeGallade can afford to run it. Also, while Defiant is awesome, it can be played around, so it's not the be all, end all ability.

All in all, I would support Mega Metagross and Mega Gallade to S mainly because the former is arguably more versatile than any of the wallbreakers in A+ and the latter is able to better muscle through walls on its own without immediately relying on team support, giving it more independence than many other wallbreakers. If they don't move up, then at the very least I would keep them together because I don't think either is better or worse than the other.
 
Here are my suggestions:

Beedrill (Mega): A
This pkmn can out speed a greninja with a nature which boosts speed (ex. timid) while it only has a nature which does nothing to speed (Adamant). Even with the rising fire type meta game, it can out speed most of them. But because it cant out speed Talonflame, it is only an A in my book. Next, there is its ability. Adaptability. This ability literally makes this pokemon so amazing. It literal does 4x damage (8x on celebi) on any pokemon that takes a super effective hit. Even if it does normal damage, 2x right there. And with its 150 attack stat, this thing is really broken.

Gyarados (Mega) : A-
Gyarados (Mega) has potential, but not as much as most think. This PKMN may be able to OHKO a lot of different OU PKMN but it has to take that extra turn to charge up the dragon dance. Otherwise, it dosen't do that much damage. And 1 turn is long enough to switch out to a grass, or fighting, or electric type pkmn, and OHKO it the next turn. Also, even if you go for a substitute first, they can have time to boost there own stats first, then make havoc on you. Even though this pkmn has its upsides, it also has some counters too.

Victini : A-
This is a pkmn that may be in UU, but it can still seep in OU. Because of it amazing physical set, which includes moves like Bolt Strike and V-Create, this pokemon can destroy its "competitors" in UU. And it does some what decent in OU too. Even though it gets countered by pkmn like Greninja, Gyarados (Mega), and Azumarill, it can take a few attacks with its 100 base stat for def, sp def, and hp. Also one Bolt Strike or Brick Break can turn the tables. So Victini has potential, and may need a little help to achieve victory, it can still sweep.
 
koista12 said:
Mega bro has reliable recovery and can burn gallade with scald. it most definitely walls mega gallade.
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+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
It is actually a 50/50 (not exactly and favoring megabro since it's not guaranteed 2hko and scald can still burn more like 70/30) after mega bro comes into the SD.
Megabro has to slack off immediately (turn 1) to completely avoid 2hko chance and M-gallade can just sword dance again and win despite the burn possibility turn 2.
Megabro can also scald on the 1st turn hoping for a burn and still has like 70% chance to not be KOed (burn chance U 3hko chance -46.9%).

MegaBro has better chances going for the scald (70/30 to win vs 50/50). Mega Gallade is definitely in a hard spot but can win.
 
I have an interesting nomination: Thundurus back to S rank
Thundurus functions as a fantastic partner for quite a few of the new megas, specifically gallade. Its main function is simply as a taunt/twave lead. Once it slows down mons on the other team faster than its mega partner, the teammate can then sweep with no worries, other than Talonflame, which gets taken out by thundy anyway. In addition, it serves as one of the best ways to deal with M-Slowbro.

Also, an interesting fact: Grass knot is a contact move, and gets the tough claws boost for MegaGross.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Edited to make 105 SpAtk for Megagross. Is M-Slowbro heavier than Slowbro by any chance?
 
quagback2qc said:
I have an interesting nomination: Thundurus back to S rank
Thundurus functions as a fantastic partner for quite a few of the new megas, specifically gallade. Its main function is simply as a taunt/twave lead. Once it slows down mons on the other team faster than its mega partner, the teammate can then sweep with no worries, other than Talonflame, which gets taken out by thundy anyway. In addition, it serves as one of the best ways to deal with M-Slowbro.

Also, an interesting fact: Grass knot is a contact move, and gets the tough claws boost for MegaGross.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Edited to make 105 SpAtk for Megagross. Is M-Slowbro heavier than Slowbro by any chance?
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Slowbro: 173.1lbs
Mega Slowbro 264.6lbs

there ya go bud
 
quagback2qc said:
I have an interesting nomination: Thundurus back to S rank
Thundurus functions as a fantastic partner for quite a few of the new megas, specifically gallade. Its main function is simply as a taunt/twave lead. Once it slows down mons on the other team faster than its mega partner, the teammate can then sweep with no worries, other than Talonflame, which gets taken out by thundy anyway. In addition, it serves as one of the best ways to deal with M-Slowbro.

Also, an interesting fact: Grass knot is a contact move, and gets the tough claws boost for MegaGross.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Edited to make 105 SpAtk for Megagross. Is M-Slowbro heavier than Slowbro by any chance?
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Grass Knot hits for 100 BP against Swampert-M and Slowbro-M
 
Kyuzeth said:
I disagree on Zapdos rising. It really isn't that solid of a Mega Salamence check, as the dragon commonly carries Refresh to cure itself of status and can Roost off any move thrown at it. Due to its higher Speed, it'll Roost before Zapdos can fire its Thunderbolts. In conjunction with Substitute, bulky variants can PP stall Zapdos and then proceed to get DDs up and sweep your team. Before you comment on PP, Max HP Megamence can take two Thunderbolts and then Roost off the damage, resisting the following T-Bolt. It should stay in B.
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I disagree with the notion that zapdos is a shaky check. I think that it can make a great check to mence. I use a spread of 252 HP/136 Def/120 SpA with a bold nature, witch allows zapdos to 2hko mence while mence can only 4hko after leftovers. Mence will waste HP by subbing, and it cant dance, either, for fear of getting killed by HP ice.

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Zapdos: 117-138 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
120 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Salamence: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If mence has already boosted, then you're in the danger zone:

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Zapdos: 174-205 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

However, you still have a good chance of winning, especially since most people dont run 252+ attack as far as I can tell.

So all in all, mega mence is still op as fuck, but zapdos helps.

Zapdos to B+ or higher.

Edit cuz i dont want to double post:

MikeDawg said:
It's worth noting that Megagross gets power up punch, which is a far better option than hc imo.
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It's worth noting that hone claws can help with accuracy problems that MMash and Zen Headbutt have.
 
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Mega Audino: D-B+ Rank

Why the hell is this thing so low. It has one of the best mega typings in the tier, amazing defenses, and recovery. Its basically a better Megagross cause it actually doesn't suffer from 4MSS and it has above average recovery. It can also run really wacky but viable sets, like Yawn+Dream Eater+Wish+Entrainment. Not only does this thing turn your ability to Healer, it EATS YOUR DAMN SOUL. The best part by far is its move set. It has one of the best move sets I've ever seen, packing things like Knock Out, Yawn, Dream Eater, etc. to really cripple the opposing team. It can also be used as a Twave user and a team crippler, so your OU team can sweep. I don't know why people diss it, but it can work really well on teams and it has great recovery. Also its Doubles use itself is great, with Heal Pulse and Healer. It can do well on stall, and thats basically my 2 cents on Mega Audino.
I know its a huge bump, but I think its a good idea.

EDIT: Before someone comes on and tells me this is a stupid idea, it probably is. Its my opinion, and my opinion is.. well, my opinion! If you disagree, i respect that.
 
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Schizzors said:
Mega Audino: D-B+ Rank

Why the hell is this thing so low. It has one of the best mega typings in the tier, amazing defenses, and recovery. Its basically a better Megagross cause it actually doesn't suffer from 4MSS and it has above average recovery. It can also run really wacky but viable sets, like Yawn+Dream Eater+Wish+Entrainment. Not only does this thing turn your ability to Healer, it EATS YOUR DAMN SOUL. The best part by far is its move set. It has one of the best move sets I've ever seen, packing things like Knock Out, Yawn, Dream Eater, etc. to really cripple the opposing team. It can also be used as a Twave user and a team crippler, so your OU team can sweep. I don't know why people diss it, but it can work really well on teams and it has great recovery. Also its Doubles use itself is great, with Heal Pulse and Healer. It can do well on stall, and thats basically my 2 cents on Mega Audino.
I know its a huge bump, but I think its a good idea.

EDIT: Before someone comes on and tells me this is a stupid idea, it probably is. Its my opinion, and my opinion is.. well, my opinion! If you disagree, i respect that.
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Your opinion is your opinion, but your opinion is about a D-rank when we're supposed to be discussing solely A+ and S ranks.

For what it's worth i think MMeta should go S due to its unpredictability while MGallade should stay A+ because despite the fact that it can be versatile with defensive or support sets, the only super threatening thing it can do is SD sweep and it can't boost its Speed out of the now-extremely-crowded 110 tier, it only has non-STAB Shadow Sneak for priority, and it gets massacred by things like Talon and MMence
 
Megoodraggon said:
Your opinion is your opinion, but your opinion is about a D-rank when we're supposed to be discussing solely A+ and S ranks.

For what it's worth i think MMeta should go S due to its unpredictability while MGallade should stay A+ because despite the fact that it can be versatile with defensive or support sets, the only super threatening thing it can do is SD sweep and it can't boost its Speed out of the now-extremely-crowded 110 tier, it only has non-STAB Shadow Sneak for priority, and it gets massacred by things like Talon and MMence
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eh, oops. Oh well, what goes in the Viability Thread, Stays or gets deleted in the Viability Thread!

Anyways i definitely agree with you cause Gallade is honestly harder to use than MMeta, and we all like noob friendly mons
 
If it has not been said enough, KEldeo needs to drop quite quicky and Thundurus should go back up. I have found Keldeo to be very bad in ORAS so far, and Thundurus extremely valauble to offensive teams. I have no hypotheses, it's just my perception for what it's worth.

Also I have found Bisharp to be fantastic. I would suggest it does not drop.
 
I have a few suggestions

Sableye A-->A+

This thing is a monster. It shuts down so many defensive mons. It can set up very easily thanks to wisp and recover. Its probably the third best mega introduced in ORAS and one of the best mons a stall team could ask for. Functionally, its only flaw is its small base hp, which can be worked around easily enough. I its just as viable as any A+ mon and deserves to be ranked as such.

Thundurus I A+--> S
111 base speed got a lot better thanks to the new 110 base megas and prankster twave is just as amazing as it always was. It also has nasty plot, taunt, volt switch and knock off to support his team. And lets not forget its amazing attacking stats and both physical and special coverage. This mon has almost no flaws aside from low defensive stats and stealth rock weakness. Thundurus just feels like an S ranked mon to me.

Azumarill A+ --> A
I don't think this guy is as good as he is in XY.He's still really good, but I don't think he's quite as viable as the other A+ mind.

Mega Zard Y A+ --> A
Its speed tier got worse and can be checked/countered by mence and altaria. He's still good

Mega Zard X S--> A+
Mega Pinsir A+--->A (I feel that both Zard X and Pinsir should drop for the time being, they didn't get less viable, it's just that they're mostly outclassed by mega salamence. They can resume their current ranks after salamence gets the ban hammer.

Mega Venusaur A+ --> A It just doesn't seem as useful as he is in XY. He's not very good against some of the new megas and just easier to break in general for some reason.

Ferrothorn A --> A+. I'm not too sure with this one. He just seems like a bigger nuisance in general since he can reliably tank and stall some of the new megas and can just fit on most teams. He just feels more viable than his A peers and belongs with the A+.

Latios S --> A+. Yeah, 110 speed just isn't as good as it is in XY. I also don't think this thing is any more viable than his twin who can use healing wish and mega evolve into a huge threat. He's definitely not on the level of the other S ranker mons imo.
 
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