Anecdotally, most of my online dating success has come from my existing network of friends. There’s been a few occasions where I’ve seen a friend in a group picture on another girls tinder / bumble profile, and then I ask my friend about the person (usually they are a roommate or friend from college). For someone who’s shy and not really trusting of people right away, it works for me. It gives me something to talk about on the first date and also acts as a layer of vetting. This probably isn’t helpful for a lot of people looking for advice here - although I can confirm there’s a lot of dead profiles out there (ie these friends of friends haven’t used the app in question in months, or it was an old profile, etc).
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Social Online Dating
- Thread starter McGrrr
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I want to quote this because I cannot stress enough on doing the complete opposite - do not set your standards nor screening criteria low. I speak from experience on this - unless you are looking for a fwb / fuckbuddy situation (to which I say even then you should set standards), you should always set standards to converse and meet with someone. Remember - dating is a lot about finding someone you will likely live with for the rest of your life. I'm not saying that your requirements have to be outlandish, but you should not be afraid to screen through people that you don't feel compatible with. You should be realistic on what you want, of course.
That said, I agree with the general audience on meeting someone through other people is probably the (safest) experience and can yield better compatibility. The nice thing about online dating, though, is sometimes you can explore and make new friends and intertwine different social circles with similar hobbies.
My point was that most matches don't lead to meaningful conversations anyway. And most of those don't lead to actual dates, and most dates don't lead to a relationship, and most relationships don't last. You're robbing yourself of a potentially wonderful partner by prescreening them out over nitpicky bullshit, as especially women online are notorious for doing. If the pictures depict someone that isn't grossly unattractive to you and their bio doesn't have anything extremely offputting, give 'em a shot. The process will naturally filter out the vast majority anyway, without you needing to artificially restrict your prospects. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater by filtering too specifically to start.
And I still pass on at least 80% of profiles because they're either disgustingly obese (40%+ of the U.S. is obese, though not all of them are grossly unattractive) or at least hiding behind half a dozen near-identical filtered selfies that simply cannot paint an accurate picture of what they look like to me, nevermind catfish. Maybe they have no bio or something extremely offputting in it (excessive negativity, lifestyle incompatibilities, etc.). They clearly aren't putting in any effort. Some of them are definitely bots/scams.
But you look at various studies and articles and blog posts and anedotal accounts out there: many women like less than 5% if not <1% of men's profiles. It's a far cry from the maybe 10-20% I try matching with. That's the problem, most women are not realistic in their standards. They treat online dating like they're visiting the Build-A-Boyfriend factory and anything less than absolute perfection, and we're just talking on paper mind you, is a hard pass. He must be 6' tall, model face, equally or more educated, make more money (those two in the face of the wage gap closing and the education gap ever-widening), blah blah blah. They demand their hypothetical new partner have all the individual best traits combined from every man they've had in the past and as a result end up swiping on like 1-of-500 men. And it's the same man that every other woman in a 50-mile radius is swiping on.
Then they have the audacity to complain when that man plays them all and projects that player image onto the other 499 men they passed on, as if most men have any options at all. It's insane and benefits nobody except the 1% of men on top! It doesn't benefit the women long-term anymore than it does all the average but well-meaning men being ignored from the start. (Though at least they're having their desirability constantly validated and, if desired, regular sex.) Of course, many men have the opposite problem and swipe on near-everyone (the algorithms will at least bury the 100%-ers), which both floods out the more well-meaning guys with reasonable standards and feeds women's egotism, entitlement, and exhaustion at wading through all the shit to find one decent man.
The rub is that there's no real way to fix this problem. You'll never get all men on board with raising their standards, because individually it benefits a man to "cheat the system" by being more indiscriminate, and to that point you'll never get women on board with lowering theirs because if nothing else it's necessary to keep their inboxes manageable. If society ever gets to the point of successfully socializing boys in the way that girls are taught to socialize, to be more caring and empathetic of others such that they can form wider social circles and don't need to look online for dates as men, it's going to take many generations before that's realized. Biologically, you can't change the fact that men simply have higher libido than women due to testosterone and are thus more driven to seeking partnership. Technologically, you can't undo people being able to explore their options and potentially connect with anyone, anywhere on the planet.
Sadly, meatspace endeavors for me have never been my forte. And I've certainly made much more of an effort the past 1.5 years than I ever did in the past. Still ain't working. Still nowhere. No prospects. Anyone I could be interested in at the gym is 10+ years older or younger and they're all taken besides. Nobody takes much interest in me when I go out to do things alone, maybe the occasional casual conversation with usually another man anyway. People are largely friendly with me but always keep me at arm's length, never interested in getting to know me on a deeper level or spend time with me beyond the venue where we met. I'm polite and inoffensive but also short, unattractive, quiet and unexciting. The loneliness just continues to gnaw at my sanity and it's certainly not helped by the Herculean effort I'm wasting my time putting in only to get no return on my investment. (Just like my career!) I was better off when I wasn't trying, since at least then I was spending more time distracting myself from the fact.
And I still pass on at least 80% of profiles because they're either disgustingly obese (40%+ of the U.S. is obese, though not all of them are grossly unattractive) or at least hiding behind half a dozen near-identical filtered selfies that simply cannot paint an accurate picture of what they look like to me, nevermind catfish. Maybe they have no bio or something extremely offputting in it (excessive negativity, lifestyle incompatibilities, etc.). They clearly aren't putting in any effort. Some of them are definitely bots/scams.
But you look at various studies and articles and blog posts and anedotal accounts out there: many women like less than 5% if not <1% of men's profiles. It's a far cry from the maybe 10-20% I try matching with. That's the problem, most women are not realistic in their standards. They treat online dating like they're visiting the Build-A-Boyfriend factory and anything less than absolute perfection, and we're just talking on paper mind you, is a hard pass. He must be 6' tall, model face, equally or more educated, make more money (those two in the face of the wage gap closing and the education gap ever-widening), blah blah blah. They demand their hypothetical new partner have all the individual best traits combined from every man they've had in the past and as a result end up swiping on like 1-of-500 men. And it's the same man that every other woman in a 50-mile radius is swiping on.
Then they have the audacity to complain when that man plays them all and projects that player image onto the other 499 men they passed on, as if most men have any options at all. It's insane and benefits nobody except the 1% of men on top! It doesn't benefit the women long-term anymore than it does all the average but well-meaning men being ignored from the start. (Though at least they're having their desirability constantly validated and, if desired, regular sex.) Of course, many men have the opposite problem and swipe on near-everyone (the algorithms will at least bury the 100%-ers), which both floods out the more well-meaning guys with reasonable standards and feeds women's egotism, entitlement, and exhaustion at wading through all the shit to find one decent man.
The rub is that there's no real way to fix this problem. You'll never get all men on board with raising their standards, because individually it benefits a man to "cheat the system" by being more indiscriminate, and to that point you'll never get women on board with lowering theirs because if nothing else it's necessary to keep their inboxes manageable. If society ever gets to the point of successfully socializing boys in the way that girls are taught to socialize, to be more caring and empathetic of others such that they can form wider social circles and don't need to look online for dates as men, it's going to take many generations before that's realized. Biologically, you can't change the fact that men simply have higher libido than women due to testosterone and are thus more driven to seeking partnership. Technologically, you can't undo people being able to explore their options and potentially connect with anyone, anywhere on the planet.
Sadly, meatspace endeavors for me have never been my forte. And I've certainly made much more of an effort the past 1.5 years than I ever did in the past. Still ain't working. Still nowhere. No prospects. Anyone I could be interested in at the gym is 10+ years older or younger and they're all taken besides. Nobody takes much interest in me when I go out to do things alone, maybe the occasional casual conversation with usually another man anyway. People are largely friendly with me but always keep me at arm's length, never interested in getting to know me on a deeper level or spend time with me beyond the venue where we met. I'm polite and inoffensive but also short, unattractive, quiet and unexciting. The loneliness just continues to gnaw at my sanity and it's certainly not helped by the Herculean effort I'm wasting my time putting in only to get no return on my investment. (Just like my career!) I was better off when I wasn't trying, since at least then I was spending more time distracting myself from the fact.
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Entitlement on this level is a red flag the size of the USSR no matter who it's coming from. Maybe the problem is less you being unattractive and more that your attitude towards dating and women is archaic and childish. Straight women do not have to be some arbitrary standard of "realistic" when dating, especially when that standard is seemingly decided by men with little dating insight. If being realistic means they match with men with attitudes like this, my God am I glad they aren't.
I think some men, not all, but a good amount reflect their standards they have on women, that women automatically have the same standards on men as well. its like a guilt-trip at this point to say the opposite gender has too complex and too absurd standards.
loads of men and women have the same issue nowadays; they get pressure in a world where beauty and success is all that counts, wether you're on facebook, twitter or instagram, its all about looks, success and other superficial standards instead of the personality of the other person. the world sadly is more superficial than it ever was, and we have to find basically the top of the cake in the mass of superficialness.
i think it doesn't help when a lot of men and a lot of women aren't attractive at all cause of the problematic beauty-standards we have currently.
be more open to the same / opposite gender, look more behind the surface instead on the surface itself.
and pls don't say the oppsoite genders is at fault because I as a woman dont find those posts very clever so to speak and other girls will shy away from dating a guy, that speaks like that about women first of all.
dont blame the opposite or same gender, we should honestly work on how to get rid of the superficialness which reached a level, that is absolutely absurd.
loads of men and women have the same issue nowadays; they get pressure in a world where beauty and success is all that counts, wether you're on facebook, twitter or instagram, its all about looks, success and other superficial standards instead of the personality of the other person. the world sadly is more superficial than it ever was, and we have to find basically the top of the cake in the mass of superficialness.
i think it doesn't help when a lot of men and a lot of women aren't attractive at all cause of the problematic beauty-standards we have currently.
be more open to the same / opposite gender, look more behind the surface instead on the surface itself.
and pls don't say the oppsoite genders is at fault because I as a woman dont find those posts very clever so to speak and other girls will shy away from dating a guy, that speaks like that about women first of all.
dont blame the opposite or same gender, we should honestly work on how to get rid of the superficialness which reached a level, that is absolutely absurd.
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Oh, didn't see this before.Meanwhile, here I am over a year later and I'm still right where I started.
I would prefer it if you didn't childishly make a story about my relationship with my boyfriend about yourself, thanks.
I personally have had a lot of success with Tinder. Not really regarding the online dating aspect just more so with meeting lots of people. I've also learned a few things as well.
Freshman girls never actually want to date, they just want to hook up. (of course this isn't always the case but from my experience it tends to be the most common thing.)
You need to be out going and willing to take risks if you want to meet people. Its definitely okay to be nervous but you need to be able to swallow that fear and just go out and do it.
Girls like a lot of funny guys so make sure you say some dumb shit about yourself or tell some funny or interesting stories you think they might like. (it helps to get to know them beforehand and than prep stories before you meet them)
Do not say a lot about yourself on Tinder. You want the girl or guy to actually get to know you a bit. If you tell them your likes and dislikes in your bio than that removes a key conversation point later on. Ill leave my tinder profile as an example.
Smile, it's one of the most important things about you and can be one of the deciding factors for swiping left or right. If you're insecure about your teeth try to have a picture of you smiling with others or a picture thats zoomed out.
EDIT: I say girls when referring to the people that see my profile since I'm not gay. I'm sure that this could apply to both genders though.
Freshman girls never actually want to date, they just want to hook up. (of course this isn't always the case but from my experience it tends to be the most common thing.)
You need to be out going and willing to take risks if you want to meet people. Its definitely okay to be nervous but you need to be able to swallow that fear and just go out and do it.
Girls like a lot of funny guys so make sure you say some dumb shit about yourself or tell some funny or interesting stories you think they might like. (it helps to get to know them beforehand and than prep stories before you meet them)
Do not say a lot about yourself on Tinder. You want the girl or guy to actually get to know you a bit. If you tell them your likes and dislikes in your bio than that removes a key conversation point later on. Ill leave my tinder profile as an example.
Smile, it's one of the most important things about you and can be one of the deciding factors for swiping left or right. If you're insecure about your teeth try to have a picture of you smiling with others or a picture thats zoomed out.
EDIT: I say girls when referring to the people that see my profile since I'm not gay. I'm sure that this could apply to both genders though.
i didn't know finchinator's avatar was actually an album cover, so i was utterly perplexed whenever a girl listed a harry styles song as their anthem on tinder. what is finchinator doing on my feed? '-'
Where the fuck do you get off calling me entitled because I won't swipe on women with empty bios and half a dozen identical selfies? She's not telling me anything about herself to gauge whether or not we're compatible in the slightest. I can hardly tell whether or not I'm even physically attracted to these people because there's no body shots and their face is always covered/filtered. Nevermind the lack of effort itself is offputting, it signals that person doesn't really care all that much about finding a meaningful match. That's at least 50% of profiles, of both sexes if you're offended on the assumption I'm singling out women here. Of the remainder, many don't go past talking about the absolute most shallow, vapid, and cliche BS about tacos, travel, and "adventures." Some are obviously jaded and write down a laundry list of bitter DON'T BE X, Y, Z. Just having a varied set of photos and writing two sentences that showcase a little personality or humor is already a top 20% profile.
Past that, I will still find some of them unattractive and have major lifestyle incompatibilities with others. That's not even including children, which I neither have nor want but if I took the *completely reasonable* hard stance of only trying to match with women of like status (raising kids is kind of a huge deal) that alone would probably cut my prospects ten-fold (and I already have barely any). I'm a kind and decent and honest man just trying my damndest to find love out in the world. I'm not entitled by being fucking human and wanting the companionship and intimacy we're all biologically wired to seek. I'm not entitled by being sad about not having that. I'm not entitled by desiring to match with someone I actually find physically attractive and has some compatibility in demeanor, mindfulness, shared interests.
And my standards are fairly low. I'm not asking for a supermodel, I just don't find excessive obesity attractive and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to not want to date women who literally weigh double what I do. (Unrealistic is another matter, apparently.) Obesity isn't even just about physical unattractiveness -- though even if it was, that would be completely fair -- but also a lack of self-control, respect, and for physically active people could even be a lifestyle incompatibility. But boy if it ain't common for women to crow about their requirement for a 6' guy, how they're tall and love their heels, or similar. It's really weird how seriously women covet height in a man, a trait that neither determines a person's facial/bodily attractiveness nor signals anything about their character. And as an American, that completely arbitrary filter alone cuts out 85% of potential suitors. (Fun fact: 6' is average for Dutch men.) In general, women seem to have a veritable laundry list of requirements before they'll even so much as look in the general direction of a man, whereas men... well, they're the exact opposite and probably need to raise their standards a little bit, but the reasonable ones tend to be little more than "she's not physically repulsive and she's not a garbage human being." Generally, not universally true since you don't seem to get it.
It's rather telling that I've been online "dating" for over a year at this point yet haven't actually been on a single date even despite my rural location. (Not quite true, I've been on a single initial meetup of about 45 minutes with a woman who, as she told me, immediately dismissed me as a prospect from the moment she laid eyes on me. Wouldn't really count that as a date, it was more just checking to ensure we weren't catfish before proceeding anywhere.) I'm not a terrible-looking guy, I've more or less got my shit together, I'm more polite and respectful of others than most, and so on. There's nothing on paper about me that should be grossly offputting, your opinions about my "attitude" aside; my profiles are reasonably curated and don't project the slightest hint of negativity. Pray tell how the problem can be my attitude when not a single woman is so much as willing to spend a bare minimum amount of time getting to know me to determine what my attitude might be. My attitude is about as relevant as me still living with my mom, which is definitely a thing some people judge harshly but nothing's ever progressed far enough for that to be a factor anyway. And my story is no isolated example, average men are being increasingly squeezed out of the online dating market entirely.
Online. In-person is a bit more forgiving because people tend to maintain a modicum of friendliness and courtesy unless you really overstep boundaries, plus you get to show off your personality a bit if your looks aren't good enough on their own to attract people. (Unfortunately for me, I'm naturally a very quiet and reserved person that has a difficult time hyping people to desire being around me. I'm also a fucking nerd whose hobbies aren't generally conductive toward meeting women.)
Sorry, didn't realize I'm not allowed to vent. Please. All I did was share my own story about how online hasn't worked for me. But hey, good for you.
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You didn't just "share [your] own story", you gave an extremely passive-aggressive response. Maybe your wording was poor, or it was just a kneejerk response, but that's how it looks to me!
Anyway, I never said that you're allowed to vent, so don't put words in my mouth. You're very much allowed to do so, and my DMs are open! You can even contact me on Discord, I'll happily provide, just as I do for anyone else! Just don't be shocked when doing it in inappropriate situations causes people to object to it. There are plenty of times and places, but shitting on someone's happiness is not one of them.
So read the room, and have some respect for those around you. I did nothing to prompt such a childish, petty response. Sit down.
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Anyway, there's a few things I'm curious about, because I do want to help. But firstly, you complain about being passed over here...
But then, you go on about this.
Is it not possible that these women feel the exact same you do, over things such as this? Perhaps they're filtering themselves because they're as insecure or jaded as you are. Why don't you try shooting your shot with some of these people, gain some experience, y'know? Maybe you could relate to them.
In my dating experiences, men are obsessed with women having hourglass figures and DD boobs or something stupid. It's exactly the same as the height thing: pretty damn unreasonable and shallow. It's pretty scary, since being trans has often prompted some very aggressive responses from people who believe I deceived them...
Hell, I've had many guys ask for nudes within the first 5 minutes of a conversation, and I'm frankly very happy I'm not going to experience that again, at least for some time.
I am really not liking these last few pages of this thread. A guy is venting about his problems finding a romantic partner in a deeply personal way, and posters in this thread are making fun of him and calling him entitled for having standards.
As someone who has had zero success with dating, a lot of what Mr.E has said resonates with me. I tried to resort to online only because dating in real life is tough for me (and now with COVID its not possible). I have no one in my friend group that I could possibly have romantic attraction with, and I don't want to come across as a creep by flirting with someone I don't know well enough. I am already awkward enough in regular social situations as is. I have tried to find matches online using multiple apps to no success. I've posted pics of me smiling, my hobbies, interests, and just about everything that you are recommended to post online. I'm by most accounts a normal guy of average attractiveness. I wasn't that picky when swiping either; I matched with anyone that seemed at least reasonably cute to me. I don't think there is really much more I can do.
Stay strong Mr.E and good luck. I think you're right; there is something seriously flawed with the online dating process that is bringing out some of the worst aspects in human nature. It's like when you oversaturate people with options, they have no reason to get to know someone well enough .... when you can just sort through everything until you get to the most perfect option.
As someone who has had zero success with dating, a lot of what Mr.E has said resonates with me. I tried to resort to online only because dating in real life is tough for me (and now with COVID its not possible). I have no one in my friend group that I could possibly have romantic attraction with, and I don't want to come across as a creep by flirting with someone I don't know well enough. I am already awkward enough in regular social situations as is. I have tried to find matches online using multiple apps to no success. I've posted pics of me smiling, my hobbies, interests, and just about everything that you are recommended to post online. I'm by most accounts a normal guy of average attractiveness. I wasn't that picky when swiping either; I matched with anyone that seemed at least reasonably cute to me. I don't think there is really much more I can do.
Stay strong Mr.E and good luck. I think you're right; there is something seriously flawed with the online dating process that is bringing out some of the worst aspects in human nature. It's like when you oversaturate people with options, they have no reason to get to know someone well enough .... when you can just sort through everything until you get to the most perfect option.
Some of what I'm about to say may have already been tried, but here's some ideas.
One thing that a lot of my friends like is a bit of mystery. I believe it's partly why profiles are often vague; hobbies are often something you want to bring up in the initial conversation. Try redacting some "fluff" and see if you can bring it up. That way they're learning about you, and that drives the conversation forward. Profiles aren't really meant to be a Wiki page, moreso a note on a bulletin board.
However, awkwardness is a very frequent turn-off, as it tends to hinder conversation. There's many resources out there for building confidence though, and I strongly recommend trying those out and seeing where it takes you. Confidence comes from motivation, without that you may have issues as well! It may sound weird, but motivating myself in the mirror was a surprisingly effective way to get myself motivated in the morning!
You've got this, champ.
Thank you.
Yeah I've tried different variations in profiles. On Tinder (which I stopped using) there isn't room for much anyway. I used the app Bumble which asks more questions, and I kept it pretty short and might include a few things of interest- like a song I like or that I enjoy playing tennis. The problem is I feel there is a thin line between being a Wikipedia page and not having enough so that you just appear blank or uninteresting.
As far as confidence goes, I am confident in myself. I like myself and think I'm capable. I wish other people perceived me as such, but I have been trying pretty much my whole life. And it's not like I don't know how to talk to people- I'm not outgoing obviously but I'm approachable and can make conversations. I will try doing the mirror thing, thanks. I do feel like I might be losing some social awareness just because of the whole quarantine situation.
I genuinely cannot figure out if this is bait. How does someone make a post complaining about how high women's standards are without doing a little bit of self-reflection? The thing all those women would have in common is that they all did not like you, not that their standards are too high or they expect too much.
Every woman that could have possibly rejected him could be rejecting low-quality matches like he is, and he ends up being one of them. What now? Is that unfair?
Man if this on its own isn't telling you anything... God bless you and good luck.
welcome to dating/getting laid, yes you can technically do it w/o flirting and risking coming across as creepy, this happens for a few ppl. but ime you must take this risk to make any progress. <-this advice was probably the best advice I ever received abt dating. the thing w guys like you is that you wanna be hit over the head, metaphorically. no one is gonna hit you over the head, in fact you'll need to hit others over the head because the ppl who will hit you over the head are probably not good for you ime.
I've been in a relationship for almost nine months (and my partner happens to be a childhood sweetheart), but before ending up with her, I used dating apps consistently on and off for five years, so I have quite a bit of experience with them.
Keep in mind that any information I share about them is from 2019 at the latest, so any changes that have happened this year (like apparently the introduction of video calls, I know nothing about). This is also based on my experience as a straight mid-20s male, so a lot of this might not apply to any lady-Smogoner or non-hetero Smogoner out here.
In that time, I literally went on hundreds of dates thanks to these apps. In those dates I had a huge variety of outcomes: some matches turned into something a little serious, others stayed fun and casual friends-with-benefits type arrangements or casual dating, some were one night stands and a whole bunch ended up being just one date because we didn't have the in-person chemistry. The unfortunate truth about dating apps is that they're a numbers game. Very rarely is the first person you match with going to be "the one". In my case, it turned out none of the people I dated from apps ended up being the one lol, although I did meet some incredible women along the way.
The photos
I'd be lying if I said that these don't matter. Dating apps are superficial after all. Yes, being a male model makes all the difference and the more attractive you are, the easier your life on these apps will be. I've been told that I'm reasonably attractive which definitely helped me get matches, but my guy friend who is ridiculously good looking would literally have hundreds and hundreds of girls in his queue, which was eye-opening to see. Having said that, if you have photos that maximise your attractiveness, some matches will come.
Some quick tips:
- Avoid selfies where possible, unless it's a really, really good photo of you. While it works for girls, my female friends have all told me it's a big no in reverse (unless you're really good looking, it's a really really good photo of you as mentioned above, or it's a really funny photo).
- Have photos of you in interesting places, dressed well (suits at a wedding for example) - hell, even if it's at a party or in a nightclub, if you're smiling or just look good, it'll work just fine.
- If you've got good ones, photos of you pursuing your passions are always great (e.g. sport, weightlifting, acting, singing, playing chess - doesn't really matter what it is).
- Having a group photo or two is okay, but make sure your first few photos are just of you, so they're not guessing who you are in your pics.
The bio
Try and write it based on the type of person you are and on the type of person you're looking to attract / type of interaction you're looking for. If you're funny and looking to just get laid, a witty one-liner will be fine. If you're looking for something a little more serious, add something that represents your personality while mentioning some of your interests / hobbies / passions. Keep it to a couple of lines though, because nobody's on a dating app to read an essay or a Wikipedia page.
Truth be told, bio's are rarely going to make it for you (at least on Tinder or Bumble), but if you come across as too desperate or tryhard they can ruin your chances. Not only will you get a quick right-swipe, but you'll probably be in many a girl's group chat where they laugh at creepy bio's.
Now, the dating app that was my absolute favourite was Hinge. The reason for it? It has question prompts which you answer and add to your profile, which are a much much much better conversation starter than just a bio with some pictures. In my single days, I always lamented that I'd like to swipe on a personality just as much as a pretty face, and while that'll never truly be the case on dating apps in general, the closest I came to experiencing that was via Hinge as opposed to Tinder or Bumble (which led to a lot of my best connections I had from dating apps being from there).
The first message
I'd try avoiding making it about their looks, unless their photos weren't interesting at all and they had zero bio (in which case, make it something specific that you like about their appearance rather than just 'you're hot'). It's obvious that if you match them, you think they're hot lol. Personally, I'd try and find something in their bio or photos to respond to. I found that that's what led to me getting the most responses. Keep in mind that I still got plenty of no-replies, but dating apps are a numbers game for girls just as much as guys, and their inboxes are inundated with way more messages than ours, so I never took it personally and if you don't get a response, neither should you. Nobody owes you anything.
The goal
Whether you're looking for love, companionship, or a one night stand, there's one common goal you should have once you're in a conversation with a girl on these apps. Once you've been chatting for a little and a legitimate connection has been formed, try to get them off the app and meeting up face-to-face. Unless you're on the app for a pen pal, the quickest way for a spark to fizzle out is months of messaging without meeting up. Having said that, because we are currently living in COVID times, that aspect may be a little tougher depending on where you live - so obviously "pen-pals" may be a necessity until it's safer to meet up.
In terms of suggestions for where to meet up, somewhere really chill and in public (e.g. coffee, walk in the park) is fine because a) it puts less pressure on both you and the girl and b) stranger danger can be a legitimate concern, so that'd definitely help them feel more comfortable. Wherever you do meet up, as long as it's somewhere where you can have a good conversation and get to know each other (so no, movie-dates are a shitty first date unless you're doing something else before/after the date - because you can't actually talk), you can't go wrong!
Paying for dating apps
Yes it sounds desperate, but it's a pretty low cost to get prioritised by the algorithm - no matter which dating app you use. The amount of matches I'd get when I had premium accounts was ridiculous compared to when I didn't. The dating apps are a business first and foremost, so they're going to prioritise their paying customers before anyone else.
If dating apps aren't for you?
That's fine! They're not for everyone and even before I met my partner, I was getting sick of them. My advice for meeting girls in-person is to try and throw yourself into many hobbies as you can. Not only will you be blown away by how many people you meet that way, but you'll already have something in common!
Keep in mind that any information I share about them is from 2019 at the latest, so any changes that have happened this year (like apparently the introduction of video calls, I know nothing about). This is also based on my experience as a straight mid-20s male, so a lot of this might not apply to any lady-Smogoner or non-hetero Smogoner out here.
In that time, I literally went on hundreds of dates thanks to these apps. In those dates I had a huge variety of outcomes: some matches turned into something a little serious, others stayed fun and casual friends-with-benefits type arrangements or casual dating, some were one night stands and a whole bunch ended up being just one date because we didn't have the in-person chemistry. The unfortunate truth about dating apps is that they're a numbers game. Very rarely is the first person you match with going to be "the one". In my case, it turned out none of the people I dated from apps ended up being the one lol, although I did meet some incredible women along the way.
The photos
I'd be lying if I said that these don't matter. Dating apps are superficial after all. Yes, being a male model makes all the difference and the more attractive you are, the easier your life on these apps will be. I've been told that I'm reasonably attractive which definitely helped me get matches, but my guy friend who is ridiculously good looking would literally have hundreds and hundreds of girls in his queue, which was eye-opening to see. Having said that, if you have photos that maximise your attractiveness, some matches will come.
Some quick tips:
- Avoid selfies where possible, unless it's a really, really good photo of you. While it works for girls, my female friends have all told me it's a big no in reverse (unless you're really good looking, it's a really really good photo of you as mentioned above, or it's a really funny photo).
- Have photos of you in interesting places, dressed well (suits at a wedding for example) - hell, even if it's at a party or in a nightclub, if you're smiling or just look good, it'll work just fine.
- If you've got good ones, photos of you pursuing your passions are always great (e.g. sport, weightlifting, acting, singing, playing chess - doesn't really matter what it is).
- Having a group photo or two is okay, but make sure your first few photos are just of you, so they're not guessing who you are in your pics.
The bio
Try and write it based on the type of person you are and on the type of person you're looking to attract / type of interaction you're looking for. If you're funny and looking to just get laid, a witty one-liner will be fine. If you're looking for something a little more serious, add something that represents your personality while mentioning some of your interests / hobbies / passions. Keep it to a couple of lines though, because nobody's on a dating app to read an essay or a Wikipedia page.
Truth be told, bio's are rarely going to make it for you (at least on Tinder or Bumble), but if you come across as too desperate or tryhard they can ruin your chances. Not only will you get a quick right-swipe, but you'll probably be in many a girl's group chat where they laugh at creepy bio's.
Now, the dating app that was my absolute favourite was Hinge. The reason for it? It has question prompts which you answer and add to your profile, which are a much much much better conversation starter than just a bio with some pictures. In my single days, I always lamented that I'd like to swipe on a personality just as much as a pretty face, and while that'll never truly be the case on dating apps in general, the closest I came to experiencing that was via Hinge as opposed to Tinder or Bumble (which led to a lot of my best connections I had from dating apps being from there).
The first message
I'd try avoiding making it about their looks, unless their photos weren't interesting at all and they had zero bio (in which case, make it something specific that you like about their appearance rather than just 'you're hot'). It's obvious that if you match them, you think they're hot lol. Personally, I'd try and find something in their bio or photos to respond to. I found that that's what led to me getting the most responses. Keep in mind that I still got plenty of no-replies, but dating apps are a numbers game for girls just as much as guys, and their inboxes are inundated with way more messages than ours, so I never took it personally and if you don't get a response, neither should you. Nobody owes you anything.
The goal
Whether you're looking for love, companionship, or a one night stand, there's one common goal you should have once you're in a conversation with a girl on these apps. Once you've been chatting for a little and a legitimate connection has been formed, try to get them off the app and meeting up face-to-face. Unless you're on the app for a pen pal, the quickest way for a spark to fizzle out is months of messaging without meeting up. Having said that, because we are currently living in COVID times, that aspect may be a little tougher depending on where you live - so obviously "pen-pals" may be a necessity until it's safer to meet up.
In terms of suggestions for where to meet up, somewhere really chill and in public (e.g. coffee, walk in the park) is fine because a) it puts less pressure on both you and the girl and b) stranger danger can be a legitimate concern, so that'd definitely help them feel more comfortable. Wherever you do meet up, as long as it's somewhere where you can have a good conversation and get to know each other (so no, movie-dates are a shitty first date unless you're doing something else before/after the date - because you can't actually talk), you can't go wrong!
Paying for dating apps
Yes it sounds desperate, but it's a pretty low cost to get prioritised by the algorithm - no matter which dating app you use. The amount of matches I'd get when I had premium accounts was ridiculous compared to when I didn't. The dating apps are a business first and foremost, so they're going to prioritise their paying customers before anyone else.
If dating apps aren't for you?
That's fine! They're not for everyone and even before I met my partner, I was getting sick of them. My advice for meeting girls in-person is to try and throw yourself into many hobbies as you can. Not only will you be blown away by how many people you meet that way, but you'll already have something in common!
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Bruh, you posted a pithy one-liner complaining about me simply going "grats but it [online] ain't worked for me" and sharing my own experiences. You deserved nothing but a pithy one-liner in response.
I actually matched with a woman once who only had no bio and one crappy selfie, a blurry car selfie she was wearing sunglasses in, just because she was very nearby which itself is a rarity here. (Like, I ain't exactly Middle-of-Nowhere, Montana but I'm in a rural pocket far enough out from any major city that my options are highly limited.) Conversation was like pulling teeth and didn't last very long besides. A lot of people, and I imagine it's true of both men and women but obviously my personal experience is with only the latter, just can't be bothered to put in the effort. Everyone is spoiled for choice, or at least they have that perception, and most people won't settle for anything less than perfection where countless other potential matches are just a swipe away.
I very much doubt women are self-filtering themselves out for me, that'd be completely delusional thinking on my part to believe "Oh, I must simply be too good for these women." It's no different than venting online and having people nitpick the ever-loving shit out of you, how if you're not experiencing success then it's necessarily because you're grossly inept and must be a terrible human being., the "Just-World blame game" I already touched on. I'm confident enough in my own skin but it's definitely the other way around. I'm not tall enough, attractive enough, rich enough. Too boring. Too nerdy. Childish because I'm upfront about liking games, grow up bro. Etc. There's no "eh, he's decent-looking and seems to have a good head on his shoulders, let's give him a shot." Nevermind most people seem to think that even a 30-minute commute is the most painful experience imaginable for someone that might otherwise be the best thing that ever happened to them; the vast majority of women I swipe on probably are never seeing my profile in the first place.
Some men are insecure about taller women, but it's not even the same order of magnitude that women obsess over height. I'm not sure any man really cares about breast size, like yeah sure we all have our preferences but it's rarely going to influence who we date. After all, the best boobs aren't big or small, they're the ones willing to get naked in front of you. I don't ask for nudes. If anything I'm insanely passive and never trend toward anything remotely sexual, but at the same time many women then think you're not interested in them because you're not being as pushy as other guys. (And the couple of times I've tried going there in the slightest, because the women blatantly set me up to make a lewd joke or reference not even being explicitly forward or anything, they immediately shut me down. So, perhaps I'm right to completely avoid the subject.) At any rate, clearly guys aren't so picky when the common perception is that they swipe on every woman and will bang anything with a hole in it.
The trans thing I'm not going to discuss in detail but it's something you really should mention upfront online.
Yeah, the guy who spent six months cutting soda from his diet and starting a regular exercise routine so he can improve his looks and put his best foot forward, bought a camera and tripod specifically so he could take a few decent pictures of himself for the specific purpose of online dating, and is generally making the effort to be more outwardly friendly with people isn't doing any self-reflection.
You're just one of those people who believes dating is remotely a meritocracy and that the state of being alone necessarily means a person is doing something grossly wrong and undeserving of even the faintest whiff of attention from their preferred sex. (And by preferred sex I really mean women, let's face it. Guys can match with other gay guys like... well, like women match with guys generally.)
I'm going to ignore that I've encountered many a man and given them helpful advice on dating women without them perishing at the thought, and highlight this bit in particular:
What should people judge whether or not to date someone else on if not merit? What else is there?
Edit: I’ll come back to this more when I’m not phone posting at work. (Heyo, Mr.E actually has a real smartphone now.)
There are lots of people who stay in shitty relationships. There are good people who can’t find one and bad people who have no trouble, even if they are arguably matching with mostly other bad people. I would never even consider physically abusing a partner, for example, but people find themselves staying in such relationships and making every excuse up for their partners instead of leaving and finding someone better.
What merit? Most dating platforms, and perhaps most people, are shallow as shit. How does a few words and a few pictures really get across what kind of person one is? There’s no substitute for quality time spent with someone to see how they live their lives, how they think and interact with others. You don’t get a fuller picture of potential attractiveness without seeing someone in three dimensions either, taking in their voice and scent and mannerisms/body language.
There are lots of people who stay in shitty relationships. There are good people who can’t find one and bad people who have no trouble, even if they are arguably matching with mostly other bad people. I would never even consider physically abusing a partner, for example, but people find themselves staying in such relationships and making every excuse up for their partners instead of leaving and finding someone better.
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your right in this regard. We may have big age difference between us so our philosophy on dating apps might be totally different. If a person lacks a bio on Tinder than I just swipe depending on whether or not I would hook up with them.
I don't wanna sound rude, but if I can help at least one fellow Pokemon player in some way then I am content. Not directed at anyone in particular, but I see a lot of people here are having difficulties. Granted, I have only skim-read a few so forgive me if I have misunderstood something or if something doesn't apply to you. I'll be blunt. You should probably work on yourself before expecting a partner to just fall into your arms. What's your hygiene like? Are you overweight? Do you have direction in life? Are you a generally likeable person? You might have parts of your personality that you might not notice are generally unlikeable. Do you take care of your appearance? Can you hold interesting conversations? These are all things that you can change. If there are things that you can't change, don't sweat it. You'll find someone eventually. I know that's cliche, but it's true. Think of how many people exist. Chances are you'll find someone that doesn't care about whatever it is.
Dating apps are fine and can work but you shouldn't put too much stock in them. If it doesn't work for whatever reason, don't worry about it. Go out and meet people naturally through friends, and then friends of friends, and so on. Be more sociable with work/school friends; join a club, whatever. Potential partners can show up in the most random of places. Heck, I've been asked for my number in an Uber pool once. If you go out looking for a partner (sexually or romantically), it reeks on your personality. People can sense desperation and more often it's off-putting. Just be natural, and be a good version of yourself.
Lastly, get this toxic mentality out of your mind that "all [Enter gender here] are the same", because that's a) sexist, b) completely untrue and c) won't help you in any way. It just shifts the blame for your failure to find a mate from your lack of desirability to a preconception of women.
glhf
Dating apps are fine and can work but you shouldn't put too much stock in them. If it doesn't work for whatever reason, don't worry about it. Go out and meet people naturally through friends, and then friends of friends, and so on. Be more sociable with work/school friends; join a club, whatever. Potential partners can show up in the most random of places. Heck, I've been asked for my number in an Uber pool once. If you go out looking for a partner (sexually or romantically), it reeks on your personality. People can sense desperation and more often it's off-putting. Just be natural, and be a good version of yourself.
Lastly, get this toxic mentality out of your mind that "all [Enter gender here] are the same", because that's a) sexist, b) completely untrue and c) won't help you in any way. It just shifts the blame for your failure to find a mate from your lack of desirability to a preconception of women.
glhf
Mr.E, just wanted to say 2 things:
1. From what I can tell you seem to have difficulty understanding context. plague got on you for using their post to voice your own frustrations. there's nothing wrong w doing so here, but the way you have done so imo is inappropriate. There are multiple instances in this thread of you using to someone sharing good news about a dating app working to complain about your situation, and even expressed vitriol at the user for having made success in a relationship. romantic relationships arent a zero sum game. to me, and im sure others, this just comes off as unnecessarily bitter. Which brings me to my next point:
2. I get the feeling of loneliness and frustration w regards to other ppl. i also think you're overvaluing a relationship and viewing it solely as a means of escape. and if that's the case, i get it. what i'll tell you tho is using relationships as a crutch will not heal any pain and can even cause more. so for me: i just graduated from undergrad and i was in a 3yr relationship that took up almost the entirety of my time in college, it was a rly good relationship but just didnt work out. like 4 months after the breakup i fell head over heels for this girl that was basically a red flag in human form, had a thing w her for like 2 months and got burned badly for it. none of that shit in any way helped me w my mental health/other things, they were all just distractions.
i speak from my own experience just to say that what do you even think will happen if you get into a relationship as is? even if you get into a super healthy one (which might not end up being the case) it won't fix any of your problems. itll just be a quick slap of duct tape. i often even used these relationships as excuses to let my mental health deteriorate. ive dealt w depression and anxiety for seemingly forever (also recently diagnosed w aspergers, for what its worth) and having had way too much time to reflect on this over quarantine ive recognized the impact (positive and negative) all of these have had on my relationships, both romantic and platonic, and in my life in general. ultimately, whatever progress i have made towards functioning like a healthy individual has come from myself and not others. im sure youre tired of hearing this but if you wanna be happy you gotta figure out how to generate that for yourself.
if you wanna talk, my dm's are open. while this is only tangentially related to the thread i feel like its worth saying regardless
1. From what I can tell you seem to have difficulty understanding context. plague got on you for using their post to voice your own frustrations. there's nothing wrong w doing so here, but the way you have done so imo is inappropriate. There are multiple instances in this thread of you using to someone sharing good news about a dating app working to complain about your situation, and even expressed vitriol at the user for having made success in a relationship. romantic relationships arent a zero sum game. to me, and im sure others, this just comes off as unnecessarily bitter. Which brings me to my next point:
2. I get the feeling of loneliness and frustration w regards to other ppl. i also think you're overvaluing a relationship and viewing it solely as a means of escape. and if that's the case, i get it. what i'll tell you tho is using relationships as a crutch will not heal any pain and can even cause more. so for me: i just graduated from undergrad and i was in a 3yr relationship that took up almost the entirety of my time in college, it was a rly good relationship but just didnt work out. like 4 months after the breakup i fell head over heels for this girl that was basically a red flag in human form, had a thing w her for like 2 months and got burned badly for it. none of that shit in any way helped me w my mental health/other things, they were all just distractions.
i speak from my own experience just to say that what do you even think will happen if you get into a relationship as is? even if you get into a super healthy one (which might not end up being the case) it won't fix any of your problems. itll just be a quick slap of duct tape. i often even used these relationships as excuses to let my mental health deteriorate. ive dealt w depression and anxiety for seemingly forever (also recently diagnosed w aspergers, for what its worth) and having had way too much time to reflect on this over quarantine ive recognized the impact (positive and negative) all of these have had on my relationships, both romantic and platonic, and in my life in general. ultimately, whatever progress i have made towards functioning like a healthy individual has come from myself and not others. im sure youre tired of hearing this but if you wanna be happy you gotta figure out how to generate that for yourself.
if you wanna talk, my dm's are open. while this is only tangentially related to the thread i feel like its worth saying regardless