Pokémon Omastar

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I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM

I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM

formerly Smog Frog

In Helix we trust

Anyways, was looking through the forum, and didn't see an Omastar thread, and this thing needs one because holy fuck its strong. Whether you pick instant raw power with Specs or insane sweeping potential with Shell Smash(
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 363-426 (56.5 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) Omastar is never a bad choice for a rain team. Of course, our favorite mollusk does have flaws(namely competition from a superior Swift Swimmer, Kabutops) but nevertheless if you build with Omastar in mind you will not be missing out on many KOs.

Specs:
Omastar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Specs Omastar attains power so ridiculous it can 2HKO bulky resists under rain:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Rain: 245-288 (61.5 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Scald is all you need to click. Strong, burns, and spammability. Only click Hydro Pump if you need the hilarious power to OHKO something. Ice Beam because its Ice type, and HP Grass because fuck Keldeo. There isn't anything else in this things move pool.

Shell Smash:
Omastar @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Basically, Shell Smash when you feel Omastar can sweep. It still maintains hilarious power before Shell Smash, and afterwards it 2HKOs Chansey.

Discuss Omastar below​
 
Hmm Omastar has always been awesome but the rain nerf did hurt it's Shell Smash set. I think the Shell Smash set can be pulled off, but Omastar would need teammates like Gothitelle to eliminate Mach Punch users like Conkeldurr and Breloom, as well as things that wall Omastar like Ferrothorn, Mega-Venu, and CALM Chansey. Overall, Omastar is a great mon and is quite underappreciated in this meta and should be more oftenly used as he can check and set-up on common Pokemon like Talonflame.
 
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Ohioisonfire said:
It's a shame about the rain nerf. It hurt Omastar a lot. It's still pretty powerful, but I honestly just hate its typing. My problem with it is that its extremely predictable. It can only run a single set efficiently and priority does some serious damage to it. Anyways isn't this thing NU anyways?
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It is NU, however it is viable in OU so it can have a thread.

Thugly Duckling said:
Hmm Omastar has always been awesome but the rain nerf did hurt it's Shell Smash set. I think the Shell Smash set can be pulled off, but Omastar would need teammates like Gothitelle to eliminate Mach Punch users like Conkeldurr and Breloom, as well as things that wall Omastar like Ferrothorn and CALM Chansey. Overall, Omastar is a great mon and is quite underappreciated in this meta and should be more oftenly used as he can check and set-up on common Pokemon like Talonflame.
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It's specs set is a thousand times better than the shell smash set and needs far less support. If anything the rain nerf was a blessing in disguise for Omastar as with perma-rain Swift Swim + Drizzle probably wouldve been banned again.

For Omastar's specs set i would suggest slashing Knock Off before Hidden Power Grass. Iirc Hidden power Grass and Hydro Pump both 2hko Keldeo under rain so its not really needed. Knock Off cripples Omastar's #1 counter, Chansey, which imo makes it far better than hp grass. Also with Knock Off you could still run a modest nature as it is used for utility, not power.
 
If you ask me, omastar is has to many weaknesses, and it gets ohkod by nuetral special hits, and its slow, even at base speed 55 max speed timid, it gets outsped by common scarfers.
 
Ohioisonfire said:
It's a shame about the rain nerf. It hurt Omastar a lot. It's still pretty powerful, but I honestly just hate its typing. My problem with it is that its extremely predictable. It can only run a single set efficiently and priority does some serious damage to it. Anyways isn't this thing NU anyways?
Click to expand...
I'd say that the rain nerf doesn't hurt Omastar at all, assuming Smogon OU rules, since last gen Drizzle+Swift Swim was banned anyway. Heck, I'd say that Omastar is better now, as you can run it with autotomatic(albeit not permanent) rain support.

Priority also isn't an effective way past Omastar, as it has high defense and resists most common priorities, such as Gale Wings Brave Bird, Quick Attack(both standard and Aerilate), Ice Shard and Extreme Speed, while taking neutral damage from Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet(Mega Scizor Bullet Punch does only 41% max, and rain boosted CB Azumarill Aqua Jet only 62% max) and being weak only to the uncommon Mach Punch.

And who cares about predictability when you can do this?
252 SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 141-166 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Talpr0ne said:
I'd say that the rain nerf doesn't hurt Omastar at all, assuming Smogon OU rules, since last gen Drizzle+Swift Swim was banned anyway. Heck, I'd say that Omastar is better now, as you can run it with autotomatic(albeit not permanent) rain support.

Priority also isn't an effective way past Omastar, as it has high defense and resists most common priorities, such as Gale Wings Brave Bird, Quick Attack(both standard and Aerilate), Ice Shard and Extreme Speed, while taking neutral damage from Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet(Mega Scizor Bullet Punch does only 41% max, and rain boosted CB Azumarill Aqua Jet only 62% max) and being weak only to the uncommon Mach Punch.

And who cares about predictability when you can do this?
252 SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 141-166 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
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minor nitpick: omastar in calc isn't modest
 
Omastar is nice and all, but I honestly don't see much of a reason to use it over Kabutops.
 
Assault Vest Conkeldurr isn't common anymore though. Your calc is also pretty bad because Omastar will almost only ever be in the rain, and Specs is the only good set anyways.

A more realistic calc:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr in Rain: 280-330 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Meanwhile:
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 126-150 (44.8 - 53.3%) -- 28.5% chance to 2HKO

It can't switch in without Omastar missing, which can be easily prevented by:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Surf vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr in Rain: 229-271 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If it takes any prior damage or a Spike or two is up, it just dies to Hydro Pump.

Omastar is great, but if you're trying to set up with it, you're going to be disappointed. It's unnecessary because Specs 2HKOs pretty much anything anyways, and it's fast enough in rain to be a huge threat to offensive and defensive teams.
 
Omastar has a big advantage over Kingdra in that it is stronger by a good margin. Sure, Scarfers outspeed you, but sux2b base 55 speed. Actually, if i did my math right, Omastar hits 418 speed under rain, which outspeeds pretty much the entire unboosted meta. Of course, because of typing you can't use it with Kabutops, but if you build with Omastar in mind, it certainly won't disappoint.
 
Omastar's got some flaws, but I like him good enough. His main problem is that he's dependent on rain despite having shell smash, perhaps the best boosting move in the game. He's too slow to run circles around frail offensive teams even at +2 speed without the rain, and he's...actually pretty fucking strong even without rain at +2 Special attack (especially if you run life orb) but you're a special attacker so without rain you can't beat chansey and by proxy stall. You're bulky enough to tank a priority hit, and you're weak to none of them save for mach punch, even resisting aerilate quick attack and brave bird. But you're also giving up your defence when you use shell smash as well as adding recoil from life orb on top of it.

So you gotta have rain, you gotta remove priority users, you gotta secure an opportunity to shell smash, he's just a lotta work in general. He's absolutely viable yeah, but you could get similar results with less support elsewhere.
 
Omastar/Lord Helix needs the support of politoed for work, and this is not good at all.
Yes, he is strong, u can do how much calcs u want, we know this.
But not only he needs the support of politoed, but he force u to play a playstyle. This is not so good in this gen, with the weather nerf.
For who says that Kabutops/Kingdra is better: for the thread is irrelevant, we are talking about Omastar.

For the OP: u can add a classic UU weak armor set that work like a suicide lead, even if is meh, with shuckle around:

Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Talking more about Helix and Politoed: everyone can say that is like using ttar with sand rush excadrill.
But the typing of this two mons is different, ttar can help exca setting rocks and removing is counters/checks with fblast or ice beam (skarmory, landorus, gliscor, ferrothorn). Politoed cannot do this for Omastar, due to his meh stats and with the damp rock. And they have a similar typing with the same weakness, ttar at least resist fire, exca resist dragon and fairy.
 
Ohioisonfire said:
Just because it has higher attack stats certainly doesn't make it better. Kingdra is faster, has a better move pool and typing, and can run more than one set efficiently. With access to Dragon Dance, Kingdra can even run a physical set, which Omastar is completely incapable of.
I'm NOT saying Omastar is a bad choice for a team, it's just if there's no Rain up, WHICH IS A LOT, it becomes complete dead weight. These are just my opinions.
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You seem to be lacking experience in working with rain attackers. When you're getting a 1.5 boost from rain, every little bit of power difference is amplified by that boost. The difference between surf and scald for instance is not 10 points, but 15 (23 pts when factoring in STAB, 35 pts of difference with Specs-- that's why Surf>>>>>>Scald here).

Likewise the difference in effective SpA is amplified.

The 20 BST difference between Kingdra and Omastar becomes an effective 99 point difference in Special Attack when comparing Modest Specs Rain Hydro Pumps. If you consider STAB it's a 150 point difference.

That's roughly equivalent to the difference in SpA between Modest Latias and Modest Poliwag.
 
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Ohioisonfire said:
Just because it has higher attack stats certainly doesn't make it better. Kingdra is faster, has a better move pool and typing, and can run more than one set efficiently. With access to Dragon Dance, Kingdra can even run a physical set, which Omastar is completely incapable of.
I'm NOT saying Omastar is a bad choice for a team, it's just if there's no Rain up, WHICH IS A LOT, it becomes complete dead weight. These are just my opinions.
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Kingdra only ever runs Specs anyways, DD is terrible and there's no real reason to run LO when you're gonna be spamming Water STAB every time you come in. Kingdra's pretty much dead weight without Rain too, you still aren't outspeeding much regardless of which one you choose, plus Kingdra is piss weak without Rain.

Also, Rain isn't up much? Rain teams make sacks like crazy to keep it up, it's an extremely fast paced playstyle. If you're usually spending more time out of Rain than in it, you need to make a few changes.
 
Ohioisonfire said:
I have enough experience to like Kingdra better. It's just my opinion. Just because something hits harder doesn't mean it's better.
If I want to use Kingdra over Omastar than that's fine. I don't see why people are complaining u-u
Omastar is OU viable but I simply don't like it.
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The point is not to deny Kingdra's merits and usefulness, but point out the very real difference in power that gives Omastar a solid advantage of its own.

Even taking out STAB, there's a bigger difference in power between Omastar and Kingdra than between Modest Latias and Modest Gyarados.
 
BlackLight said:
Kingdra only ever runs Specs anyways, DD is terrible and there's no real reason to run LO when you're gonna be spamming Water STAB every time you come in. Kingdra's pretty much dead weight without Rain too, you still aren't outspeeding much regardless of which one you choose, plus Kingdra is piss weak without Rain.

Also, Rain isn't up much? Rain teams make sacks like crazy to keep it up, it's an extremely fast paced playstyle. If you're usually spending more time out of Rain than in it, you need to make a few changes.
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CritDra says hi. But personally I do agree with Chou Toshio that in terms of power Omastar is a lot better. Omastar resists the more commonly seen forms of priority like Quick Attack, Brave Bird, Extreme Speed, and Fake Out while Kingdra only resists Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet... Kingdra also has mediocre defenses at best while Omastar has a nice base 125 Defense to actually stomach some attacks.
 
I'm seeing a lot of Kingdra comparisons, which frankly are annoying as they actually make superb teammates. Specs Omastar does a terrific job at luring and 2HKOing shit like standard Mega Venusaur, specially defensive Rotom-W, Alomomola, and Ferrothorn with its ridiculously powerful Hydro Pumps so that the weaker and speedier Kingdra can pull off cleans. Omastar also easily handles all variants of Talonflame, a Pokemon that can stop Kingdra cold. I have posted relevant calcs below. In return, Kingdra alleviates Omastar's weakness to Choice Scarf users by simply revenging them.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola in Rain: 231-273 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W in Rain: 140-165 (46 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 179-211 (50.8 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 145-171 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur in Rain: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey in Rain: 310-366 (48.2 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Omastar can use Knock Off on obvious Chansey switches to support itself and destroy the blob later in the match)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Rain: 221-261 (68.4 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir in Rain: 313-370 (112.9 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 364-429 (92.3 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

If Omastar and Kabutops (the best swimmer) didn't share the same typing, Omastar would be far more common than it currently is. It's a really good Pokemon right now. Knock Off/Pump/Surf/Ice Beam Omastar terrorizes all playstyles assuming that it can hit its Hydro Pumps. Very little prediction and skill is needed to click Hydro Pump and watch stuff die. The trick is to get Omastar as many opportunities to get in under rain as possible. Omastar is also more useless than Kabutops / Kingdra are outside of rain, though none of those three are doing much damage to OU teams without Rain up anyway.

ninja'd by Smog Frog !_!

Also, please stop bringing up Shell Smash. The OU QC team rejected the Smash set in favor of Specs for a reason. Omastar struggles badly to find free turns to set up a Smash, and with how freaking hard it hits from the get-go, it doesn't need Smash anyway.
 
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I've been using it in a Rain team that I made in a minute, and I gotta say that you guys convinced me of its worth. With Specs it hits incredibly hard, and has been the most useful member of the team (bar Politoed, but he doesn't count :$).

Would Rapid Spin over Knock Off be an option? Knock Off just seems kind of useless even as an utility move because even against Chansey you're only going to spam Hydro Pump anyway, while Rapid Spin would be useful if the opponent manages to lay multiple layers of spikes (for example) and killed your defogger/main spinner.

Never mind, I assumed it got Rapid Spin because Kabutops gets it too lol.
 
BONGMASTER420 said:
What are some good teammates for Omastar? Obviously pokes that can check Ferro and Venu. Could Talonflame work?
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Talonflame seems meh, because his fire STAB becomes weak as shit. Thundurus and Tornadus-T might be good options because they can beat both Ferro and Venu with Focus Blast and Psychic/Hurricane, while using the rain to their advantage.
 
BONGMASTER420 said:
What are some good teammates for Omastar? Obviously pokes that can check Ferro and Venu. Could Talonflame work?
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Ferrothorn tends to stop a lot of Rain Sweepers in general so using a Magnezone is a great solution to get rid of it once and for all. To aid in trapping it, you can use a U-Turn user such as Tornadus who can also threaten Mega Venusaur as well.
 
Where's the mentioning of Omastar breaking through Ferrothorn in rain:[

That's one of the real reasons I love Omastar. Also, away from that, Omastar in my opinion has better wall breaking capabilities than Kabutops (Wider movepool and better coverage) therefore it having a better spot in rain than Kabutops for me. Plus, Omastar can fucking dance.

images
 
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