Sorry for the back to back, but this post serves a completely different purpose as the one above it. I think these stats can help us make educated guesses about viability rankings as well! I'm going to be going through all of the proposed viability rank movements and supporting (or opposing them!) with data.
rank changes that I will be implementing unless there is another discussion
Being at the top of the usage stats has shown that this pokemon fits the description of the S rank instead of the S- rank that was originally created for it. I had a lot of doubt at the beginning, but even with the rise of -ate mons, Giratina has still sat at the top.
vs
I was debating the difference between these mons earlier, but now that we have numbers, we can see that diancie is the more viable and used out of the two. Many players favored diancie for one reason or another. I think this makes the case for Diancie rising to A+ while Kyurem stays in A.
imposter
Imposter had insane usage this month, with around 20-25% of teams having an imposter chansey or blissey on their lineup. I agree with the posts above saying that imposter has risen in viability, as it has a great matchup vs a lot of mold breakers as well as having the ability to wall out and stall wonder guards and beat attackers. Imposter now more closely fits under the S- rank.
and
being added to the ranks: I still agree with these and their placements, I don't think the stats have much of an effect on these mons' movement right now, so I think B and C respectively are accurate placements.
This mon's 13th place finish lends heavily to how viable it is as an anti-physical defender or a support teammate. I think that A- is a great place for it to be.
just barely scraped into the top 35. The mon is viable, but I don't think it's influential enough to be anywhere else but B Rank.
sitting at 41st, regular Groudon was used, but its viability is still questionable. B+ is an overrank, and C or below is where it deserves to be after these changes.
and
dropping from S rankings:
I originally supported these, but these mons had insanely high usage in a heavy -ate meta and proved they should stay in the S rank.
I think my debate for moving this mon up to S fell a bit flat: gengar is an incredible mon, but it's nowhere near as dominant as some of the other threats in the format. It wins a ton and it can single handedly turn around games, but I don't think that that qualifies it for any higher than A+ rank at the current moment.
other rank changes that I think need more discussion. I will not be implementing these yet
->
This was the most used non-gyara non-deoxys mon on the high ladder, surpassing both of the mewtwo forms as well as the primals, gengar, and other major attackers. I think this supports the narrative that the mon has extremely high viability in the meta right now, and, in my opinion, should move up to A+. I want to hear more input on this one from other users, so I'll update this in the future.
This mon had extremely low usage on the ladder, just barely scraping it into the new "ou" umbrella. There was some discussion that it was vastly underrepresented because users didn't know soul dew worked on the mon, so they opted to choose another more straightforward mold breaker instead. I'm not too sure how accurate that is, but I'm willing to accept that it did change this mon's usage and it would've been much higher with a clear explanation of the mon's options. I still think dew usage wouldn't have boosted the mon up too much: it currently sits at 4.3% usage and I'm not too conviced it would've been some crazy high >10 number with community knowledge about soul dew.
Going to comment on 3 things, mmx/deo-s, Gyarados and Latios-mega. Will also post 2 teams i used on the ladder.
Just for what it's worth, I don't know how much usage stats should influence VR. It's nice to have those stats but like it doesn't necessarily prove viability.
So first, Gyarados is fine at A imo. It is a great pokemon, no doubt. The ability to change from set up Wonder Guard to Mold Breaker is extremely effective and makes teambuilding easier but adding counters to Gyarados to your team is actually relatively easy. Using Volt Switch as momentum move makes facing Gyarados a lot easier. Gyarados is also a lot weaker compared to most pokemon used in Hackmons. It requires a solid defensive core to be used well as it is a Wonder Guard that can't really take hits from any Mold Breaker pokemon. While mega-evolving is what makes it so good it also has its drawbacks as it has to carry Gyaradosite and is therefore vulnerable to Shadow Tag (especially Substitute variants) and Prankster Spore. Gyarados also lacks immediate damage. Without set up, it's close to useless. The point of the set is to set up for free thanks to Wonder Guard but that's not always done easily. The other A+ rank pokemon are there because they have a great speed tier and offensive stats that allow for big and immediate damage which Gyarados fails to do.
Finally, the risks involved with mega-evolving can't be ignored. If you mega-evo at the wrong time, it can backfire very fast. Since you lose a Wonder Guard it means Pokemon with Huge Power and No Guard can potentially sweep easier. Sometimes it also isn't just about mega-evolving at the wrong time but in order to break the opponent's team you have to mega-evo leaving you in danger if it wasn't enough to finish the game. Gyarados is a good pokemon but not as good as other A+ rank imo.
Again i don't think usage stats tell the whole story and we shouldn't base everything around them. Latios-Mega's lack of usage is probably due to people not knowing Soul Dew's mechanics on Lati@s-Mega. That item is what makes this pokemon so good tbh. Soul Dew has Choice Specs and Assault Vest advantages without the drawbacks. Just this calc : 252 SpA Spooky Plate Gengar-Mega Judgment vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO. Soul Dew makes Judgment from Gengar-Mega a 50/50 basically which means that fundamentally, Latios-Mega has more chance of winning vs Gengar-Mega than the other way around (not counting Spore/Dark Void of course).
Just going to repost what i said in previous post tbh : Latios-Mega lacks speed but if it had 394 like Gengar-Mega or MMX i would rank it S without question. The power it has on first hit due to Soul Dew makes it so dangerous. You are basically forced to run Steel types if you want to be safe. Dark types still take a ton from Spacial Rend and Fairy types also take a bunch from Psystrike. It doesn't need to set up unlike other Mold Breaker users to actually threaten Wonder Guard. And if it actually manages to set up, it has the Stab on the best move to capitalize on it with Stored Power. It is a Pokemon that needs to be taken into account more than MMX or MMY when teambuilding imo.
MMX/Deoxys-S : I think both need to drop. MMX : I don't see the advantage of using this over Gengar-Mega or MMY anymore. It is stuck with Huge Power as Mold Breaker definitely lacks power with Physical Defense Giratina being everywhere on the ladder which means it has to hope it has the right coverage to be dangerous. If it doesn't have the right coverage, it's close to deadweight imo. A+ at same rank as the Special Mold users.
Deoxys-S : Ev limit hit it hard. I think Ransei's idea is the best approach to the deo-s/No Guard « problem ». Drop Deo-s but have No Guard as S rank. I don't know if it's doable but seems like a good idea to me.
Gyarados-Mega : Deserves a rank, I don't know how we forgot to rank this Pokemon. Prankster stops a lot of set up pokemon like Gyarados/Gengar-Mega/MMY/Latios-Mega/Primal-Groudon. It can also be offensive with Pursuit and Trick-Or-Treat. The Pixilate, U-turn and Volt Switch weaknesses are annoying. B rank.
Second part of this post.
Now that the ladder ended, i just want to share what i used.
First team, won't go into too much detail for this one. https://pokepast.es/bbb4529ec9078c79
I have been using this for quite a while now. I built this like 1 year ago i think. Basically a solid defensive core with Slowbro-Mega, Yveltal and Giratina. Scizor-Mega is the Wonder Guard. It goes very well with Giratina and Slowbro-Mega as both resist fire moves. Yveltal and Giratina Prankster cover almost every set up and their shared Refrigerate and Pixilate weakness is taken care of by Slowbro-Mega and Scizor-Mega. On the offensive side, you got Pixilate Diancie-Mega to stop set up and put pressure on the opposing team with Toxic Spikes. Slaking Mold Breaker Belly Drum to break with Extreme Speed and Shadow Sneak to beat Prankster.
Made it to 30-0 then lost to a crit. Reached 50-1 before losing to Dramlamb's Para/confusion team and then lost to a disconnection so i stopped at 50-3 with this team.
I have been using this for quite a while now. I built this like 1 year ago i think. Basically a solid defensive core with Slowbro-Mega, Yveltal and Giratina. Scizor-Mega is the Wonder Guard. It goes very well with Giratina and Slowbro-Mega as both resist fire moves. Yveltal and Giratina Prankster cover almost every set up and their shared Refrigerate and Pixilate weakness is taken care of by Slowbro-Mega and Scizor-Mega. On the offensive side, you got Pixilate Diancie-Mega to stop set up and put pressure on the opposing team with Toxic Spikes. Slaking Mold Breaker Belly Drum to break with Extreme Speed and Shadow Sneak to beat Prankster.
Made it to 30-0 then lost to a crit. Reached 50-1 before losing to Dramlamb's Para/confusion team and then lost to a disconnection so i stopped at 50-3 with this team.
Second team https://pokepast.es/4f177effca6b3070
I made this team when i had to fight Regirock for the ph roa tour. I wanted to build something around Boomburst as Substitute was used a lot. Credits to dramlamb for helping with the teambuilding and stealing 2 of her sets basically.
My first thought was an -ate Boomburst as to hit Giratina but i finally decided against it since double Wonder Guard would just be too annoying. I opted for Dramlamb's set, Arceus Mold Breaker with Boomburst/Judgment as imposterproofing it would be very easy to do with any Ghost Type. I went with Dark Void to beat Safety Goggles users. The miss can be very annoying but the advantage you get by putting to sleep the supposed set up counter of the opponent is huge. Spread is to outspeed 394 pokemon with Choice Scarf after 1 Shell Smash. Rest is put in HP to help tank hits better. You could honestly put 8 more in Speed as to outspeed Yveltal/Xerneas max Speed without nature.
Again, i was inspired by Dramlamb's strats and added Shadow Tag Gengar-Mega. It is a great pokemon and in this case allows to trap pokemon that imposter Arceus. Set is nothing out of the ordinary, Spikes/Heal Order/Encore/Perish Song. Item is weird though. I opted for Safety Goggles. I already had a Trick counter with Arceus so i didn't need one more. Moreover Safety Goggles help vs Spore Spam.
I decided to go with a double Wonder Guard core. Gyarados + Audino-Mega. Gyarados would allow for offensive pressure while Audino-Mega was the Latios-Mega, Gengar-Mega counter. Audino-Mega is also the best Wishpasser imo so that gives me the opportunity to heal my other pokemon. Gyarados's spread is to outspeed Deoxys-S after Shell Smash as Adamant doesn't outspeed anything worth it so why not put ev in HP.
0 SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 332-392 (97.9 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
That actually saved me once.
At this point i lacked set up checks. Moreover i was incredibly weak to Primal-Groudon and Gyarados. To check both you don't really have much choice but to go for Giratina. I went for Prankster and Encore/Curse/Haze/Recover. Max HP/DEF with Safety Goggles. This set is to stop set up and can switch in on Mold Breaker users as it ignores Spore and can Encore into either Spore or set up if they went for that.
For the last pokemon i legit didn't know what to use. I felt i needed more offensive pressure but at the same time Prankster Giratina was my only option vs set up. So i added something that could do both, Chansey Imposter. Nothing special here.
The team performed a lot better than i thought it would. I ended at 102-4 on the ladder so 52-1 for this team. Chansey is a big part of the team's success as it allowed me to scout opponent's sets and use the appropriate counter to it which made me win momentum pretty easily.
Threats : No team is perfect so this has weaknesses too. Deoxys-S is actually a threat even if i have 2 Wonder Guard. If Stealth Rock is on the field i can only switch 4 times with Gyarados and since i don't have Magic Bounce i can't save myself by predicting a Gastro Acid/Spore and annoy Deoxys-S. My only loss actually comes from someone running 2 Deoxys-S and losing 2 both speedties with Chansey. Deoxys-S being a problem mostly comes from the lack of speed. It is the biggest problem with this team. My fastest pokemon is Gengar-Mega but vs Latios-Mega, Gengar-Mega, MMX and MMY it does nothing so fundamentally my fastest pokemon is actually Arceus at 296 which pretty bad tbh. So scouting with Chansey becomes mandatory as to know which Wonder Guard can check which offensive pokemon and use that to your advantage. Offensive Magic Bounce can also be annoying since i can't Encore them but Chansey can usually beat them thanks to its HP and Eviolite. If you know how to use Chansey imposter, the team is extremely easy to use.
Thanks to Ransei, Regirock (i am not highlighting berry sorry) and ROA staff for choosing Pure Hackmons for a ladder. It was truly great to be able to ladder this awesome metagame again. Gotta shoutout Feebas4ubers : had you not come online in the last few days i would have stopped at 1700. It was great to have another crazy ladder player to compete with to go as high as possible on the ladder and make it to 1800.
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wonder guard (ranked separately)
special
stag, physical
physical, stag
physical, ate
utility
utility
physical, utility
utility
special
utility
physical, special
ohko, special
physical
physical
physical
utility
stag, utility
utility
utility
grass, electric, freeze dry
grass, freeze dry
ground
ground
fire
dragon, fairy, freeze dry
bug, dark, ghost
bug, dark, ghost
bug, dark
ground
ground, fighting
flying, rock, water
fire, rock
bug, dark, ghost
bug, dark, ghost
fire, ground
bug, fairy, fighting
ground
bug, flying, poison, freeze dry
bug, dark ghost
grass, freeze dry
fighting
grass, electric
fire
fire, flying, rock
ground
electic, fire
fairy, flying, psychic
electric, ground, rock
UR > B or C you need two other wgs to support it but lando blocks all huge power, which is super useful and it makes it much harder to break your defensive core, especially if there are defensive pokemon with super effective attacks against mbs, like uturn or knock.
S1 > S1: Ninjask is now the top mon. It's more centralizing than Slaking at this point, as the surge of sand teams have nullified Slaking's presence a bit. Ninjask, however, still functions normally even though some of the best counters to it, such as Tyranitar and Aggron, are commonly found within sand teams. Ninjask even existing has given offensive threats that much of a chance to break through the defensive behemoths of sand teams. And Ninjask vs other offense is even more brutal, since certain threats that are passed Speed can just mow through teams. It's also nearly impossible to stop Ninjask, as it can always just use Spore, Substitute, or Protect to escape any given situation. Baton Pass ignores Pursuit, so you can't even trap it that way. Ninjask is a clear cut above Slaking, and that should be represented.
B1 > A2: Tyranitar has been pushing bulky sand teams for a while now, and they have become the best teams in the metagame. Tyranitar is a clear staple of the metagame now, and this change should reflect this.
B2 > B1: I feel Aggron is above the level of Skarmory, and on the level of Tentacruel. Skarmory is just too passive while Aggron can offensively threaten Slaking with Swords Dance Cross Chop.
