Number of steps-to-hatch changes RESEARCH

[Peterko]

STEPS-TO-HATCH CHANGES:
In EMERALD (probably in D/P too) the number of steps you have to take for a particular pkmn to hatch have been slightly modified

1. every egg now has +255 steps that are unchangeable (not even by magma armor/flame body)
I ´ve done this with gligar
5375 steps taken til it hatched - without magma armor/flame body = 5120 (base) + 255
2815 steps taken til it hatched - with magma armor/flame body = (5120 / 2) + 255

NOTE: just tested this in SAPPHIRE and +255 is also present there!!! magikarp needed 1535 steps to hatch (not 1280).


2. the number of steps-to-hatch depends on the position of the egg during hatching
first egg = 2815 steps
second egg = 3071 steps (+256 from the first)
third egg = 3327 steps (+256 from the second, +512 from the first)
fourth egg = 3583 steps (+256 from the third, +768 from the first)
fifth egg = 3839 steps (+256 from the fourth, 1024 from the first)

- this is NOT set at the moment you get the egg, it changes as you change the number of eggs you hatch at a time - deposit all and withdraw just egg #5 and hatch it, it will only need 2815 steps if it is in the first position

3. I think the moment this is set is the moment you start to hatch = when you walk the first step, and it depends on how many eggs are there before you in that moment (I´ve tried withdraws/deposits, changing positions in the team)

- because the number of steps to take changes, it´s impossible that there´s a countdown on the steps, I´m absolutely sure that
4. the steps are being counted up, from zero, magma armor/flame body double the steps you take, til you´ve done all the „base“ number of steps (in this case 5120), the unchangeable 255 steps are last

5. if you have more pkmn with the same number of steps taken, in RS the next egg would just hatch right after the first, on the nex step you take, this is also changed in EMERALD, as there will ALWAYS be a 256 „gap“ between two eggs that hatch

NOTE: what the hell, the "gap" is also present in SAPPHIRE!!! I´ve bred hunderds of hours in sapphire before I got emerald and I´m pretty sure this wasn´t there before
THEORY: the berry fix also changed the breeding mechanism a bit

6. now there´s another crazy thing, unless there is a 256 steps gap (that you´ve walked) between two eggs, the egg which is placed first will hatch first, despite the fact that the second may have walked 1-255 more steps aready

- now if you have more eggs and one has an advantage of 256 and more steps before the others, it will hatch first, no matter what its position is (tested this with a +258 egg that was at the last position in the team and it hatched first)

this is one of the tests I´ve made:

first egg in team = 47 steps til deposit
second egg in team = 47+50 steps til deposit
thid egg in team = 47 + 100 steps til deposit
fourth egg in team = 47 + 150 steps til deposit
fifth egg in team = 47 + 258 steps til deposit

now the order in which they hatched and the number of steps each took:
1. fifth egg, 2815 steps taken
2. first egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 1., 2813 steps taken (-2)
3. second egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 2., 3119 steps taken (+256 + 50)
4. third egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 3., 3425 steps taken (+256 + 50)
5. fourth egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 4., 3731 steps taken (+256 + 50)

- I know why they hatched in this order, but why did they take that many steps?
- I´ll make a few more tests to clarify this


now I´d like to know if this works the same way in D/P, that´s why I need you to TEST this in DIAMOND and PEARL:

1. breed a magikarp (or any other pkmn) and count the number of steps it takes to hatch (I think there´s a step-counter function in the poketech) without having a magma armor/flame body pkmn in your team first, then with a magma armor/flame body pkmn

2. breed a magikarp, deposit it in the PC, remember the exact way (number of steps) you took til deposit, then breed the next magikarp, take the same exact way (number of steps) and deposit it, breed a third one and deposit it -> now all 3 should have the same number of steps taken -> withdraw them, shuffle their position, #3 first, #1 second, #2 third -> hatch them, count the numbers of steps the first one needs to hatch and which one of the 3 it is, which one is second, which one third, by how many steps do they differ?

3. get more eggs, before you deposit take a different number of steps for each, one of them at least 256 more steps than the rest, withdraw and hatch all of them, count the steps they took and in which order they hatched

lol sorry for 5staring my own topic ._.



EDIT: new tests with magikarp
1535 steps -> magikarp without a magma armor/flame body pkmn
1023 steps -> magikarp with a magma armor/flame body pkmn
-> this differs from what I thought first, 1280/2 + 255 would be 895, this one needs another 128 steps to hatch ._.

-> all magikarps had the same number of steps before taking them out of the box: order of hatching, number of steps it took, at what position they were in the team
1. 1023 steps needed, position 1
2. 1279 steps needed, position 2
3. 1535 steps needed, position 3
4. 1791 steps needed, position 4
5. 2047 steps needed, position 5

-> breeding two magikarps with a magma armor/flame body pkmn,
the first had 47 steps before deposit, and the second varied
test
A)
1. 1023 steps needed, had 47 + 252 steps before deposit, position 2
2. 1027 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1, hatched 256 steps after 1.
B)
1. 1023 steps needed, had 47 + 256 steps before deposit, position 2
2. 1023 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1, hatched 256 steps after
C)
1. 1023 steps needed, had 47 + 216 steps before deposit, position 2
2. 1063 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1, hatched 256 steps after 1.
D)
1. 1023 steps needed, had 47 + 208 steps before deposit, position 2
2. 1071 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1, hatched 256 steps after 1.
E)
1. 897 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
2. 1279 steps needed, had 47 + 126 steps before deposit, position 2, hatched 256 steps after 1.
F)
1. 819 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
2. 1279 steps needed, had 47 + 204 steps before deposit, position 2, hatched 256 steps after 1.
G)
1. 817 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
2. 1279 steps needed, had 47 + 206 steps before deposit, position 2

H)
1. 1019 steps needed, had 47 + 254 steps before deposit, position 2
2. 1021 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
3. 1533 steps needed, had 47 + 256 steps before deposit, position 3
4. 1791 steps needed, had 47 + 258 steps before deposit, position 4

is there anyone who can tell me the logic behind this? Why did the first karp only need 897/819/817 steps to hatch, though normally it needs 1023, it is respectively 126/204/206 lower than the 1023, that´s exactly the number the egg on the second position had OVER the first (meaning it had 126/204/206 more steps), this looks like the first would steal the number of steps the second one made...

 

[Justin8649]

Good job on the research. It's funny that nobody has figured this out yet, especially with all the breeding FAQs listing exact step amounts. But in D/P it seems like there is an odd range for hatching eggs. I usually have the step counter open when I am hatching and the numbers always seem different. I'll try to do some research on it tomorrow (i'm about to go to bed.)

 

[Wishy]

O_o Wow.

This will prove to be very useful, I think. Good job. :D

 

[X-Act]

The explanation I can give to this is that the game actually starts counting the steps for the egg to hatch after the 255th step you took after you take the egg.

So you're not actually walking 255 more steps to hatch the egg. It's that the game starts counting after you walk 255 steps.

After you walk 255 steps, regardless of whether you had stored that egg and retrieved it back or not, you then walk 768 more steps to hatch the Magikarp egg (the reason why it's 768 and not 640 for Magikarp is unclear... maybe the game sets a minimum amount of steps you need to walk in order to hatch an egg, and this seems to be 1023).

If you have more than one egg in your party, then they will always hatch at intervals of 256 steps. So egg position is actually not a factor.

 

[Mekkah]

You're insane.

Also, just to keep track of which egg/Pokemon is which, you should use the mark function if it's still there.

 

[Judgement]

ill have to try this since im breeding a lot anyway. (and i just transferred a magcargo to my game)

edit:

Rhyhorn egg: 2804 steps to hatch with a magcargo in my party

according to serebii, it takes 5120 to hatch but if that is so, then its ~11 steps short of the 255
(5120 / 2 = 2560. 2804 - 2560 = 244)

will check the without after i shower.

 

[X-Act]

My theory, as I said before, is that the internal 'step counter' of each egg does not start counting until after your 255th step after you get the egg.

Let's test this theory. Let's do it for Peterko's Gligar, who requires 2560 steps to hatch (with Flame Body)

first egg in team = 47 steps til deposit

second egg in team = 47+50 steps til deposit
thid egg in team = 47 + 100 steps til deposit
fourth egg in team = 47 + 150 steps til deposit
fifth egg in team = 47 + 258 steps til deposit

now the order in which they hatched and the number of steps each took:
1. fifth egg, 2815 steps taken
2. first egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 1., 2813 steps taken (-2)
3. second egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 2., 3119 steps taken (+256 + 50)
4. third egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 3., 3425 steps taken (+256 + 50)
5. fourth egg, hatched exactly 256 steps behind 4., 3731 steps taken (+256 + 50)

As you're seeing, you walked more than 255 steps with only egg 5 before depositing it. You actually walked 47+258 = 305 steps, and since the first 255 are redundant, the 'internal step counter' for the egg is actually 50 (305 - 255). For the other 4 eggs, it is 0, since you hadn't walked 255 steps before you stored them.

When you got them back, egg number 5 required only 2510 (= 2560 - 50) more steps in order to hatch, and it duly did. Actually, the other eggs' counter is now 2510 for all of them, so logic would dictate that, after 50 more steps, they should simultaneously hatch. The game, though, simply does not allow this to happen: an egg can never hatch within less than 256 steps of a previous egg. So, 256 steps after egg 5 hatched, the topmost egg hatches first. 256 steps after it, the topmost egg again hatches, and so on.

Another example: Your Magikarp is being bred with a Magma Armor/Flame Body Pokemon. The number of steps is 768 (the reason it's not 640 is probably because the game wants everyone to do 1023 steps at least to hatch an egg, and 768 + 255 = 1023).

1. 1019 steps needed, had 47 + 254 steps before deposit, position 2

2. 1021 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
3. 1533 steps needed, had 47 + 256 steps before deposit, position 3
4. 1791 steps needed, had 47 + 258 steps before deposit, position 4

Okay, so egg 1 had 301 steps, so its internal step counter is 46 (301 - 255). Egg 2 had 47 steps, so its internal step counter is 0. Egg 3 had 303 steps so its internal step counter is 48, while egg 4 had 305 steps, so its internal step counter is 50.

After 718 more steps, egg 4's counter reaches 768. Strangely enough, though, it's not egg 4 that hatches, but egg 1! I don't know the reason for this. It might be that, since the counter is supposed to be 640 for Magikarp, and not 768, it checks the first egg whose counter is greater than or equal to 640 (instead of 768 ). Since the counter of the first egg is 714, it hatches. The other 3 eggs are then hatched with a delay of 256 steps each, from the top downwards.

The other data you posted corresponds to how I think it works. Only the above one doesn't, although I'm offering a possible reason why it doesn't work.

 

[Peterko]

yeah your theory seems logical, but I´ve had another encounter with the last case that didn´t hatch in the order you would say it had to

I just bred two eggs with 513 steps (258 steps over 255), two eggs with 509 (254 steps over 255) and one egg with 511 (256 steps over 255) and...their position was 509-509-511-513-513...guess in what order they hatched?

1. third position, (256)
2. first position, (254)
3. second position, (254)
4. fourth position (258 )
5. fifth position (258 )

so it has to reach 768 steps...let´s say those 255 steps are in the same counter, but listed as -255

every egg has this -255 counter and if there is at least one pkmn in your team that gets to zero, all other - counters are reset to zero...this is actually what you say, X-act

now as you see, three of the 5 have already jumped over 256 steps, third position, fourth and fifth -> now I think those three are in the same "group" of 256steps, which means their position will decide, that´s why 256 comes before 258 and 258...
I don´t know how a different way this would be done than this: the game checks every 256 steps you take if there is an egg that already hit 0 (if there´s a countdown) , or 768 (if the steps are added)...now I forgot what I wanted to say ._.

OK so we have 254, 254, 256, 258, 258
you go 256 steps -> 510, 510, 512, 514, 514
you go another 256 steps -> 766, 766, 768, 768, 768
# 3, # 4 and # 5 are alredy finished -> what is their position?
right, #3 > #4 > 5, this is why #3 comes first
you take another 256 steps -> 768, 768, 768, 768
all of the eggs are finished -> what is their position?
#1> #2 > #4 > #5 -> egg # 1 will hatch
now every 256 steps one of the eggs hatches

YES! this has to be it

 

[Protege]

I did notice that it takes a little longer to hatch and that it was never what it says the number of steps is on serebii. Thanks for the info.

 

[Reflect Suicune]

good job, although it was a little too much for my brain to handle...

 

[Tytus]

I suspected this but had no clue of the mechanism behind it. In Emerald I would deposit eggs in the PC immediately after recieving them, and then I would take all five out at once to hatch them in a close time period, but they would never hatch at nearly the same time. I wonder why this was implemented into the game.

 

[X-Act]

OK so we have 254, 254, 256, 258, 258
you go 256 steps -> 510, 510, 512, 514, 514
you go another 256 steps -> 766, 766, 768, 768, 768
# 3, # 4 and # 5 are alredy finished -> what is their position?
right, #3 > #4 > 5, this is why #3 comes first
you take another 256 steps -> 768, 768, 768, 768
all of the eggs are finished -> what is their position?
#1> #2 > #4 > #5 -> egg # 1 will hatch
now every 256 steps one of the eggs hatches

YES! this has to be it

But, in your previous example, you stated that the egg hatched after only 1019 steps instead of 1023. This wouldn't have happened if the game checks for the hatching of an egg only every 256 steps.

 

[Peterko]

they´re in the order - position in team, #1, #2.. means order they hatched in

1.)
- 208 -> + 45 + 5x134 + 55 = 817 #1
- 2 -> + 45 + 7x134 + 43 = 1279 # 2

withdrawn, went two steps, the second one hit zero, the first one was reset to zero (the „steeling“ I was wondering about in my first post), aswell, then
after 43 + 5*134 + 55 = 768 steps, the first positioned hatched (both hit 768, but the second would automatically hatch 256 steps later)

2.)
-208 -> +45 + 7x134 + 41 = 1071 #2
0 -> +45 + 5x134 + 53 = 1023 #1

withdrawn, the first egg counter was set to zero, the second one was already zero, after 768 steps the second one hatched first – it had a priority over the first because it was through 255 steps first?

3.)
0 -> +45 + 5x134 + 51 = 1021 steps taken #1
+106 -> +45 + 7x134 + 39 = 1517 steps taken #2
+2 -> +45 + 9 x134 + 27 = 1535 steps taken #3

withdrawn, after 766 steps the first positioned hatched, the second positioned 256 steps after the first, the third 256 steps after the second
- looks like all the 255 to 511 step eggs were reset to zero, as well...that means minus 255 to plus 255 eggs are all reset to zero, their position is the key now, or
- second option: the other steps are not reset, but the egg positions is more important if they are in the same 255 (6) step group, which means that the other egg steps are ignored and have to wait until the egg before them hatches

I have no clue why it only needed 766 steps and not 768...maybe there´s a minus 2 if there are three eggs, let´s see what happens if there are four eggs


4.)
+2 -> +45 + 3x134 + 81 = 785 #1
+14 -> +45 + 5x134 + 69 = 1053 #2
+106 -> +45 + 7x134 + 57 = 1401 #3
+252 -> +45 + 11x134 + 33 = 2059 #4

lol

when compared to H) from the first post
1. 1019 steps needed, +46, position 2
2. 1021 steps needed, -208, position 1
3. 1533 steps needed, +48, position 3
4. 1791 steps needed, +50, position 4
the difference is that in H) there is one egg that didn´t make the first 255 steps before deposit, in 4.) all of them did pass that mark...but why did the fourth egg in 4.) hatch 512 steps behind the third, although it had the highest number of steps before deposit?

hopefully loadingNOW will help us by looking at the game code ._.

 

[X-Act]

4.)
+2 -> +45 + 3x134 + 81 = 785 #1
+14 -> +45 + 5x134 + 69 = 1053 #2
+106 -> +45 + 7x134 + 57 = 1401 #3
+252 -> +45 + 11x134 + 33 = 2059 #4

lol

Interesting things:

+2 -> 785 = 1023 - 252 + 14 - 2 + 2.
+14 -> 1053 = 1279 - 252 + 14 - 2 + 14.
+106 -> 1401 = 1535 - 252 + 14 - 2 + 106.
+252 -> 2059 = 2047 - 252 + 14 - 2 + 252.

I saw this pattern.

 

[Reflect Suicune]

I was hatching Ralts eggs last night and, remembering this thread, paid a little more attention to stuff. I noticed this after hatching the first egg:

This was in Pokemon Pearl with Magma Armor Camerupt in the first slot of my party

- It took exactly 510 steps before the next egg to hatch
- the following egg hatched 255 steps after that one
- All subsequent (forgot whether I had 4 or 5 eggs) eggs hatched in 510 step intervals

 

[Peterko]

silver shadow, did you have a pokémon with magma armor/flame body in your team? was that in diamond and pearl?

 

[Dan Dan]

i'd like to help with some research for this if I can, what can I do?

 

[Peterko]

i'd like to help with some research for this if I can, what can I do?

from my first post:
now I´d like to know if this works the same way in D/P, that´s why I need you to TEST this in DIAMOND and PEARL:

1. breed a magikarp (or any other pkmn) and count the number of steps it takes to hatch (I think there´s a step-counter function in the poketech) without having a magma armor/flame body pkmn in your team first, then with a magma armor/flame body pkmn

2. breed a magikarp, deposit it in the PC, remember the exact way (number of steps) you took til deposit, then breed the next magikarp, take the same exact way (number of steps) and deposit it, breed a third one and deposit it -> now all 3 should have the same number of steps taken -> withdraw them, shuffle their position, #3 first, #1 second, #2 third -> hatch them, count the numbers of steps the first one needs to hatch and which one of the 3 it is, which one is second, which one third, by how many steps do they differ?

3. get more eggs, before you deposit take a different number of steps for each, one of them at least 255(6) more steps than the rest, withdraw and hatch all of them, count the steps they took and in which order they hatched



EDIT: I think I figured out the difference between eggs that hatched first with the basic number of steps 1023 = 768 + 255 (because all other eggs hatch n*255(6) steps later)

A = B - C + 255
C = Emax - Epriority

A -> number of steps this egg has to walk
B -> basic number of steps (magikarp 768 with magma armor effect)
Emax -> egg with the highest number of steps in that group
Epriority -> egg that will hatch first, with the "best" position in that group
group -> means eggs that are in the same range of steps, the first range is 255, the second 255(6), third 255(6) etc.

255 - infamous 255 steps to walk before counter starts

let´s take for example
H) from the first post
1. 1019 steps needed, +46, position 2
2. 1021 steps needed, -208, position 1
3. 1533 steps needed, +48, position 3
4. 1791 steps needed, +50, position 4

the 1019 egg (pos. 2) walked 301 steps, pos. 3 303 steps and position 4 305 steps -> all above the 255 mark, which means the first egg that will hatch is from this group -> which one? the one that has the "best" position in that group...after that after 256 the next one will hatch, if more are able to hatch, the one with the best position (in this case pos.1) will hatch...

A = B - C + 255
C = Emax - Epriority
A = 768 - (305 - 301) + 255
A = 1019 steps

the next egg will hatch 256 steps later

another example G)
1. 817 steps needed, had 47 steps before deposit, position 1
2. 1279 steps needed, had 47 + 206 steps before deposit, position 2

both are in the same group, none of them passed 255 steps, the first one had 47 steps, the second 253

A = B - C + 255
A = 768 - (253 - 47) + 255
A = 817 steps



I´ve made a few other tests now to prove this theory:
magikarp
1. eggs with 47, 59, 71, 107, 177 steps in this order
the first one that hatched was 47, 1023 - (177-47) = 893 steps, proven
2. eggs with 269, 293, 317, 305, 365 steps in this order
the first one that hatched was 269, 1023 - (365-269) = 927 steps, proven
gligar
3. eggs with 649, 629, 689 steps in this order
the first one that hatched was 649, 2815 - (689-649) = 2775 steps, proven

 

[loadingNOW]

okay my first result is this:
the "gap" is real in every edition even r/s unpatched. Tested using the exactly same egg (cloned in emulator with sapp v1) 5 times.

I have quite a simple theory which would be that the game checks if there is an egg in the team beginning with the first one. if true, it checks if the conter has finished if so egg hatches, if not you will have to wait till the next time. It checks one egg max.
NOTE: note that this is just the most simple idea i could come up with. It's not really based on anything. And and it would really surprise me if its as complex as Peterkos ideas.

 

[Reflect Suicune]

Oh sorry, I made that post first thing in the morning because I didnt want to forget all the information, and ended up leaving out some stuff anyway... I edited the post

 

[Peterko]

loadingNOW: yeah, if you use 5 eggs that had the same steps, the first one will always hatch first, you have to try different eggs, first <255 steps, and then some with more than 255 steps and less than 255 steps

 

[loadingNOW]

the game only changes the steps to hatch counter every 256 steps (i assume there is global counter for that), so that might cause the small fluctuations

[edit]: yes that is how it works in ruby: there is one counter counting up from 0..255 if it's 255 all the "hatch" counters of the eggs currently with are decreased by 1. If a hatch counter is zero the egg hatches but only one egg for each time the counter is 255. For reference address of thet counter is 20287EA. Hatch counters are in pokemon/egg data which the byte which is normally happyness.

note: that counter is ALWASYS running so if you get your egg at 0xf0 you have less steps for that egg then if you get it when it's 0x00.

 

[X-Act]

Okay, that explains everything.

When we say Magikarp has 1280 steps to hatch, the internal egg counter for Magikarp is 5. (1280 / 256). Magma Armor/Flame Body reduces this to 5/2, which is rounded UPWARDS to 3. So a Magikarp with a Magma Armor/Flame Body Pokemon will hatch in 256 x 3 = 768 steps, plus a maximum of 255, depending on the egg step counter that will be explained in the next paragraph.

There is an egg step counter in the game which starts from 1 if you have at least one egg (even if it is deposited). Every step you take, this counter increases by 1. So, even if you have all your eggs deposited, the egg step counter will still be increasing. When this becomes 256, it is reset to zero (not 1), and all egg counters of the eggs that are in your party (i.e. not deposited) are decreased by 1 (unless they are zero). Then the game checks if one of the eggs has its counter zero, starting from the topmost one. If one of them is zero, it hatches, and the game moves on. This results in the eggs being hatched in intervals of 256 steps, even if their internal egg counter was zero 256 steps before.

 

[loadingNOW]

I'd think it's even running if you don't have any egg (not even in a box). But i'll test this later. Maybe it's even the same counter used for generating eggs.

And I'd assume that if holding magma-armor we get Happy=Happy-2 (unless it's 1 or 0) instead of -1 every 256 steps (which basicly results in the same thing X-Act said)

 

[X-Act]

I'd think it's even running if you don't have any egg (not even in a box). But i'll test this later. Maybe it's even the same counter used for generating eggs.

The reason I said that the step counter only works if you have an egg is because most of Peterko's examples first hatched an egg after 1023 steps, which suggests that the counter starts at 1 the moment you have an egg. It would have been extremely lucky for Peterko to have ALWAYS moved 256^n steps whenever he got his first egg.

And I'd assume that if holding magma-armor we get Happy=Happy-2 (unless it's 1 or 0) instead of -1 every 256 steps (which basicly results in the same thing X-Act said)

It does result the same as I said, but the way you explained it is even better than my explanation. Yes, the counter is decreased by 2 instead of by 1 if you have a Magma Armor/Flame Body Pokemon. It's much better to explain it this way... thanks.