As much as I love the NU tier, I always end losing due to weird team. Guess it's time for me to recheck the NU pokes.
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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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Some Pokemon are left to rot in the NU tier just because nobody uses them, they actually have potential even in the OU environment, like Ampharos, Raichu, Medicham & Gastrodon.
Imo Magmortar is probably the strongest sweeper right now. Medicham is weaker than I thougth it would be.
I for one have found DDWhiscash quite effective. With its reasonable bulk, exellent typing and good movepool (at least by NU standards) it can set up quite often. It can effectively run both bulky sweeper set with Waterfall/Dragon Dance/Rest/Sleep Talk or go all out with DD and 3 attacks.
I for one have found DDWhiscash quite effective. With its reasonable bulk, exellent typing and good movepool (at least by NU standards) it can set up quite often. It can effectively run both bulky sweeper set with Waterfall/Dragon Dance/Rest/Sleep Talk or go all out with DD and 3 attacks.
Um, no. Gallade was banned because of the SD set. (At least that was what I heard.)
OK, so why does my Scarf Medicham never sweep a signifigant portion of the Metagame? (The set is ZH, BB, Ice and Fire punch) It isn't as good as you make it out to be.
hey man maybe it's because you don't play it right! you obviously can't just spam one move every time and expect to sweep the opponent's team. the key word in your post is my. i could give a new player a shaymin-s and let him loose in ou, but that doesn't mean he would sweep with it. obviously, shaymin-s and medicham are different, with the former having one or two switch ins that are actually viable, but it's still a fair comparison.
Probably, because I'm new to the whole pokemon thing anyways.
Medicham and
Linoone are obviously the biggest problems. One Belly Drum leaves you with a sweeper with +6 attack, +1 Speed and a STAB Priority move. It also has access to Normal+Ghost+Grass coverage, meaning that it can hit basicly anything and everything for neutral in NU that's not NFE. The only way to really beat Linoone is to have Toxic Spikes+ Ghost Type, forcing you to really predict.
1048- The attack stat that Linoone hits with a Belly Drum and an Adamant Nature.
449- The speed that a Neutral Nature Linoone reaches after one Belly Drum. (With Salac Berry)
Seed Bomb alone 2hkos Shuckle with Stealth Rock.
43.75%47.32%51.79%
Extremespeed 2hkos even Torkoal.
63.08%68.31%74.42%
As you can see, this Pokemon can 2hko two of the most bulky Pokemon. And the only real counters to it require a Focus Sash, which LOL breaks with rocks up, forcing a spinner, which forces a Ghost. Basicly, it's like using Rayquaza in OU.
Medicham is easier to deal with, but still hurts when used properly. But one should note that Medicham needs the Scarf to sweep. The Choice Item also means that Medicham can only use one attack, easing prediction for your opponent, while you are strained. And even if you predict correctly, your opponent may come in on the revenge kill. I'm not saying that Medicham isn't useless or slightly broken, but I'm saying that Linoone is generally better.
480- The attack stat that Medicham reaches with an Adamant Nature and Scarf.
389- The speed that Medicham reaches with a Scarf and Neutral nature.
I also know that CAP has taken over as a NU server. I'd like to know if there are any plans to make CAPS for NU.
Linoone are obviously the biggest problems. One Belly Drum leaves you with a sweeper with +6 attack, +1 Speed and a STAB Priority move. It also has access to Normal+Ghost+Grass coverage, meaning that it can hit basicly anything and everything for neutral in NU that's not NFE. The only way to really beat Linoone is to have Toxic Spikes+ Ghost Type, forcing you to really predict.
1048- The attack stat that Linoone hits with a Belly Drum and an Adamant Nature.
449- The speed that a Neutral Nature Linoone reaches after one Belly Drum. (With Salac Berry)
Seed Bomb alone 2hkos Shuckle with Stealth Rock.
43.75%47.32%51.79%
Extremespeed 2hkos even Torkoal.
63.08%68.31%74.42%
As you can see, this Pokemon can 2hko two of the most bulky Pokemon. And the only real counters to it require a Focus Sash, which LOL breaks with rocks up, forcing a spinner, which forces a Ghost. Basicly, it's like using Rayquaza in OU.
Medicham is easier to deal with, but still hurts when used properly. But one should note that Medicham needs the Scarf to sweep. The Choice Item also means that Medicham can only use one attack, easing prediction for your opponent, while you are strained. And even if you predict correctly, your opponent may come in on the revenge kill. I'm not saying that Medicham isn't useless or slightly broken, but I'm saying that Linoone is generally better.
480- The attack stat that Medicham reaches with an Adamant Nature and Scarf.
389- The speed that Medicham reaches with a Scarf and Neutral nature.
I also know that CAP has taken over as a NU server. I'd like to know if there are any plans to make CAPS for NU.
Remember to consider that Linoone has to Belly Drum before it is a threat.
Furthermore, if it loses half its HP before or on the turn it sets up it is either dead weight or just dead.
Even a max attack Farfecth'd Slash (the weakest attacker likely) does 44% which is enough to make Belly Drum impossible with Stealth Rock's 12.5% damage.
Furthermore, it'll usually get only one shot to sweep due to the Salac berry being consumed and the HP penalty.
So the Linoone user will generally have to play with 5 pokemon until he is failry certain he can set up when Linoone comes out.
If it ends up being forced out (Roar?) in a situation where it is impossible to set up it can become dead weight especially with hazards on the field.
Lets not forget that a number of bulky Pokemon are still 2HKOd by +6 attacks boosted attacks meaning they can still survive and retaliate.
IMO, there is huge potential but significant risk to including Linoone in your team.
I guess it really comes down to whether NU players think it is sufficiently easy to arrange Linoone's Belly Drum turn.
If it's hard, which I suspect, and someone builds a successful strategy around getting that turn I believe they deserve to be rewarded with a sweep.
Overall, I consider Charizard more dangerous as it's a credible threat without a boost so you might have to run from it sometimes.
Then it has a free turn Substitute, Belly Drum, Sunny Day, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance or whatever nasty thing it has in mind.
Granted, I may have it all wrong since I haven't been playing NU actively.
But I'm very interested since I've found myself a bit tired of the relative few that are viable in OU.
I'll be definitely be looking about building a team to participate.
Where is the official ladder hosted?
Is it the CAP server as posted above?
Furthermore, if it loses half its HP before or on the turn it sets up it is either dead weight or just dead.
Even a max attack Farfecth'd Slash (the weakest attacker likely) does 44% which is enough to make Belly Drum impossible with Stealth Rock's 12.5% damage.
Furthermore, it'll usually get only one shot to sweep due to the Salac berry being consumed and the HP penalty.
So the Linoone user will generally have to play with 5 pokemon until he is failry certain he can set up when Linoone comes out.
If it ends up being forced out (Roar?) in a situation where it is impossible to set up it can become dead weight especially with hazards on the field.
Lets not forget that a number of bulky Pokemon are still 2HKOd by +6 attacks boosted attacks meaning they can still survive and retaliate.
IMO, there is huge potential but significant risk to including Linoone in your team.
I guess it really comes down to whether NU players think it is sufficiently easy to arrange Linoone's Belly Drum turn.
If it's hard, which I suspect, and someone builds a successful strategy around getting that turn I believe they deserve to be rewarded with a sweep.
Overall, I consider Charizard more dangerous as it's a credible threat without a boost so you might have to run from it sometimes.
Then it has a free turn Substitute, Belly Drum, Sunny Day, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance or whatever nasty thing it has in mind.
Granted, I may have it all wrong since I haven't been playing NU actively.
But I'm very interested since I've found myself a bit tired of the relative few that are viable in OU.
I'll be definitely be looking about building a team to participate.
Where is the official ladder hosted?
Is it the CAP server as posted above?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my experience of playing NU, a Linoone sweep is somewhat harder compared to UU because of the high usage of Skuntank. This was quite a few months back now, but according to the usage statistics Skuntank use has only increased since, so it must be harder if anything.
There is also a lack of Steel-luring wallbreakers in NU as the best ones serve to deter them for the most part. The lack of Magneton now can also be a factor, with NU losing its best Steel trapper, but then again it has also lost the best Steel type in general so I guess the two balance out somewhat.
There is also a lack of Steel-luring wallbreakers in NU as the best ones serve to deter them for the most part. The lack of Magneton now can also be a factor, with NU losing its best Steel trapper, but then again it has also lost the best Steel type in general so I guess the two balance out somewhat.
Well seeing as LC have been on cap for a lot longer than nu has and they havent got a cap, i highly doubt it.
Has anyone tried Belly Drum Ursaring?
Jolly Ursaring@Salac Berry
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Earthquake/Stone Edge
After the Salac activates Ursaring hits 343 speed which I believe only five NU pokemon can exceed without a scarf.
STAB Return at +6 has enough power to KO max HP/Def +ve natured Hippowdon so nothing in NU that lacks a resistance should stand a chance.
I figure floating Ghosts/Steels are rare in NU making EQ an acceptable coverage move.
Shedinja and Solrock resist both moves, though the latter takes massive damage from resisted Return even with max Defense/HP.
Stone Edge remedies that by OHKOing Solrock and Shedinja at the expense of losing to other things like Bastiodon.
There are quite a few conditions for this to work (getting behind a sub to Belly Drum, revenge killers and priority gone to sweep) but it might still be viable.
Azumarill sometimes tries a similar strategy in UU though with slightly superior bulk and appreciably more attack but less speed and a weaker STAB move.
Has anyone ever attempted this in NU matches?
Jolly Ursaring@Salac Berry
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Earthquake/Stone Edge
After the Salac activates Ursaring hits 343 speed which I believe only five NU pokemon can exceed without a scarf.
STAB Return at +6 has enough power to KO max HP/Def +ve natured Hippowdon so nothing in NU that lacks a resistance should stand a chance.
I figure floating Ghosts/Steels are rare in NU making EQ an acceptable coverage move.
Shedinja and Solrock resist both moves, though the latter takes massive damage from resisted Return even with max Defense/HP.
Stone Edge remedies that by OHKOing Solrock and Shedinja at the expense of losing to other things like Bastiodon.
There are quite a few conditions for this to work (getting behind a sub to Belly Drum, revenge killers and priority gone to sweep) but it might still be viable.
Azumarill sometimes tries a similar strategy in UU though with slightly superior bulk and appreciably more attack but less speed and a weaker STAB move.
Has anyone ever attempted this in NU matches?
The problem with Ursaring is that SD + Quick Feet is usually better and with a BD + Sub set he is outclassed by Linoone because of Linoone's priority.
Linoone and Medicham are not really threats at all in the curret metagame, however, Charizard is.
I've been using a Modest SpecsZard lead as a staple on one of my teams, and oh my GOD is this thing broken.
He outspeeds every user of SR (highest is base 85) and ohkos them with Overheat (Yes, including standard Nidoqueen and all Gligar).
Max HP Poliwrath and no SpD Quag take 50% and 65%ish from the initial switch in, respectively.
Max SpD Dusclops is 2HKO'd with ease.
Every special wall is defeated by Overheat, Flamethrower, or Air Slash, bar Flareon and Slowking, the former of which who cannot do anything back, and both are 3hko'd by Air Slash. If the Charizard user gets a flinch or crit, its game over.
But SpecsZard is not the only broken set, not at all. LO + 3 attacks with Roost, SD, DD, BD, and mixed wallbreaker (those this is mostly outclassed by Magmortar with the exception of Zard's speed) are all extremely viable and dangerous.
LO + 3 attacks can and will defeat every poke in the tier bar Manectric, Tauros, and Floatzel (who outspeed, but cannot switch in), Slowking, and Flareon. There is not a single Poke outside the latter 2 who are not 1 or 2hko'd.
SD + Fire Punch + Earthquake + Roost has no counters, and with Screen support it can and will defeat the entire tier. Dragon Dance can do the same. Because Charizard is a fire type, he is immune to Will-O-Wisp, which makes his physical sets even harder to stop. The biggest problems, once again, are bulky Waters and occassionally Shuckle, but those are set up bait for SD Leafeon, who is a perfect partner for Zard.
Charizard also has perfect synergy with another one of the best pokemon in the tier: Quagsire. Quagsire shrugs off every hit that hits Zard SE and can Encore and Toxic to wear down Waters and help Zard set up.
You might say that SR is stopping Charizard, but as he takes less than 50% from a lot of attacks and has access to Roost, this is not an issue for a good team. Rapid Spin is not hard to get off either, as there are only 2 viable ghosts in the tier, Dusclops and Haunter. Both are stopped dead by Skuntank, who is also one of Charizard's few checks.
TL;DR the only broken Pokemon in NU is Charizard.
Linoone and Medicham are not really threats at all in the curret metagame, however, Charizard is.
I've been using a Modest SpecsZard lead as a staple on one of my teams, and oh my GOD is this thing broken.
He outspeeds every user of SR (highest is base 85) and ohkos them with Overheat (Yes, including standard Nidoqueen and all Gligar).
Max HP Poliwrath and no SpD Quag take 50% and 65%ish from the initial switch in, respectively.
Max SpD Dusclops is 2HKO'd with ease.
Every special wall is defeated by Overheat, Flamethrower, or Air Slash, bar Flareon and Slowking, the former of which who cannot do anything back, and both are 3hko'd by Air Slash. If the Charizard user gets a flinch or crit, its game over.
But SpecsZard is not the only broken set, not at all. LO + 3 attacks with Roost, SD, DD, BD, and mixed wallbreaker (those this is mostly outclassed by Magmortar with the exception of Zard's speed) are all extremely viable and dangerous.
LO + 3 attacks can and will defeat every poke in the tier bar Manectric, Tauros, and Floatzel (who outspeed, but cannot switch in), Slowking, and Flareon. There is not a single Poke outside the latter 2 who are not 1 or 2hko'd.
SD + Fire Punch + Earthquake + Roost has no counters, and with Screen support it can and will defeat the entire tier. Dragon Dance can do the same. Because Charizard is a fire type, he is immune to Will-O-Wisp, which makes his physical sets even harder to stop. The biggest problems, once again, are bulky Waters and occassionally Shuckle, but those are set up bait for SD Leafeon, who is a perfect partner for Zard.
Charizard also has perfect synergy with another one of the best pokemon in the tier: Quagsire. Quagsire shrugs off every hit that hits Zard SE and can Encore and Toxic to wear down Waters and help Zard set up.
You might say that SR is stopping Charizard, but as he takes less than 50% from a lot of attacks and has access to Roost, this is not an issue for a good team. Rapid Spin is not hard to get off either, as there are only 2 viable ghosts in the tier, Dusclops and Haunter. Both are stopped dead by Skuntank, who is also one of Charizard's few checks.
TL;DR the only broken Pokemon in NU is Charizard.
No, CAP Pokemon are made for the OU metagame only.
My take on brokenness is this:
The Pokemon in NU are the bottom of the barrel so I don't think we should be looking for broken ones as a first step.
IMO, Limbo tiers aren't great for the game because they result in Pokemon that are not viable anywhere since they are banned where they could work and outclassed where they're allowed.
I would much rather that the cream of NU emerged from usage statistics while everything else falls into a natural state of disuse.
Then if people really wanted to use those extremely underpowered beasts a final tier could be created from which overpowered beasts could be banned.
As a final step, anything that stood out among the cream as thoroughly broken could then be doomed to Limbo.
I think this is a natural approach because NU really contains two main categories:
-'Outclassed' Pokemon with some good attributes that are rejected by OU and UU for better alternatives (eg. Charizard, Relicanth, Gastrodon)
-Pokemon that have hopelessly poor competitive prospects (eg. Delcatty, Farfetch'd, Mawile).
On Charizard:
He is a top tier threat, no doubt, but I'm not convinced it is broken.
A number of Pokemon especially Slowking and Flareon but maybe even Thick Fat Walrein, and HP rich Wailord should be able to cope with special sets.
Cloyster can switch into most physical sets (SubDrum on the Sub, DD, SD) and use quad effective Skill Link Rock Blast to get through.
Recoil Bellyzard is risky but potentially dangerous little set if pulled off successfully.
Cloyster comes close to beating it with Ice Shard and Double-Edge/Belly Drum recoil but just misses out on the guaranteed KO.
I agree that if there is any suspect it is Charizard but I think the tier is too young to declare it broken just yet.
Exactly how much Stealth Rock factors is something that needs to be considered as well.
The Pokemon in NU are the bottom of the barrel so I don't think we should be looking for broken ones as a first step.
IMO, Limbo tiers aren't great for the game because they result in Pokemon that are not viable anywhere since they are banned where they could work and outclassed where they're allowed.
I would much rather that the cream of NU emerged from usage statistics while everything else falls into a natural state of disuse.
Then if people really wanted to use those extremely underpowered beasts a final tier could be created from which overpowered beasts could be banned.
As a final step, anything that stood out among the cream as thoroughly broken could then be doomed to Limbo.
I think this is a natural approach because NU really contains two main categories:
-'Outclassed' Pokemon with some good attributes that are rejected by OU and UU for better alternatives (eg. Charizard, Relicanth, Gastrodon)
-Pokemon that have hopelessly poor competitive prospects (eg. Delcatty, Farfetch'd, Mawile).
On Charizard:
He is a top tier threat, no doubt, but I'm not convinced it is broken.
A number of Pokemon especially Slowking and Flareon but maybe even Thick Fat Walrein, and HP rich Wailord should be able to cope with special sets.
Cloyster can switch into most physical sets (SubDrum on the Sub, DD, SD) and use quad effective Skill Link Rock Blast to get through.
Recoil Bellyzard is risky but potentially dangerous little set if pulled off successfully.
Cloyster comes close to beating it with Ice Shard and Double-Edge/Belly Drum recoil but just misses out on the guaranteed KO.
I agree that if there is any suspect it is Charizard but I think the tier is too young to declare it broken just yet.
Exactly how much Stealth Rock factors is something that needs to be considered as well.
The bit I emboldened is something I strongly agree with. It was so annoying before, when we had like 50 BLs. All those interesting Pokemon, who couldn't be used to their full potential.
We should be trying to ban as few Pokemon as possible, only if they NEED to be banned. If we're thinking 'maybe', we should let them stay in the tier, until we are more sure.
However, apart from that, I think we should just do it the same way that UU was done.
You really have to compare Charizard to Salamence, as they both can run an extreme amount of effective sets and are hurt by Stealth Rock, but what NU doesn't have compared to OU is the threat of a Pokemon like BP Scizor. It is true that there are useful priority users in NU and it is true that OU and NU are very different environments, but the effects of these 2 Pokemon are the same. Priority or having the EXACT right Poke for the EXACT right set are the ONLY ways to stop these two.
Anyways, that last sentence brings me to what i want to address. Flareon is not a very useful Poke outside wish passing. Cloyster is next to useless on any team except stall as it dies to any special attack. Wailord and Walrein outside Hail stall are NEVER used and there are many common things to deal with them like Poliwrath. What I'm getting at is that Slowking is the only Poke that comes close to being able to deal with all Charizard sets, and for any given set there are a VERY Limited number of safe switch ins, several of which are ridiculous (TF Walrein and Wailord).
NU has been being tested by a while (though unofficially) and I'm sure that any regular NU player WILL tell you that Charizard is as hard to deal with as Salamence in OU if not more so.
And you're mentioning Stealth Rock factoring into his broken factor. Stealth Rock is almost a nonissue, especially to the special sets. Charizard can defeat EVERY user of SR and Rapid Spin (useable by Hitmonchan, Sandslash, Armaldo, and Cloyster, the former 3 all useable on any type of team) is not hard to get off with only one real viable spin blocker in the tier (who is easily abused by Charizard in the first place, but that is not the point). In my opinion, Stealth Rock does not have nearly as much weight in this argument as "counters" do.
Charizard is broken and I will defend this point and my opinion will not change. Never before has NU seen a Poke so capable of wiping out the entire tier (not even Medicham, who really needed to run a choice set to be able to do that).
Using this to support my argument. Outside of a few static Pokemon, the teams are indeed different and still a lot of useful sets have probably yet to be discovered. Charizard overcentralizes the metagame in the fact that you NEED to have Slowking or you NEED to have Skuntank or you NEED to have a Floatzel or Tauros or Manectric. Granted, these are all good Pokemon, but one should not be forced to use at least one just to CHECK a broken Pokemon in such a vast and changing metagame.
The thing with Charizard is that you can actually counter it, where as Magmortar you can't because it has Thunderbolt.
This metagame is variable, but there is still quite a few broken Pokemon off the bat.
Magmortar and Medicham I think are the only two broken Pokemon in the tier, Charizard is really good but I'm not sure if it's really 'too good', it might get to that point soon enough though.
Charizard, as I have said tons...and tons... and tons... to times, is the Salamance of NU. About as predictable, about as strong. I have a feeling he'll be debated for NUber for ages, but always verge on the 'Very Good' part of things.
Magmortar, as I think I've said before, is possibly broken. The Scarf set is a nightmare, considering that Mag's already fast for NU, and has the Equal 2nd Highest SP.Attack in the teir, combined with the 6th highest BST... and the movepool and ability to actually USE it. (Above him are Slaking and Regigias, who are crippled from the get-go, Regice, Articuno, and Entei, not known for stellar movepools.)
The Specs Set can basically OHKO anything that's not Shuckle, or a devoted special wall, or resists what's thrown at it. Neutral hits will put down most things in the teir from SpecsMortar
MixMortar is quite nasty too, harder to counter it when your check is slammed with Cross Chop instead of a Fire type move.
SubPunchMortar is nasty as well... heck, SubMortar is nasty, with the switches it forces. (Like Subtran)
Yeah, NU has a few possible suspects right now, in decending order:
Magmortar
Linoone
Walrein (Stallrein is hard to stop in NU... in fact, Walrein isn't that bad outside of StallRein either :/)
Medicham
Charizard
Primeape
The last may confuse a few of you, but Primeape is nasty. ScarfApe can tear things to bits with STAB Close Combats, Base 105 Attack, and Base 95 + Scarf Speed...
Then there's BandApe, due to the already high Speed, it dosen't need the boost... and hits even physical walls/fighting resists massivly hard with Close Combat.
It's listed below Charizard, but I feel a few people might agree with this.
And, yes, NU is highly volitile and variable. There are few staples, unlike OU, where there is tons of centraliseation, but there are centralised pokemon, most of them the possible suspects... although Linoone and Walrein are uncommon.
I mean, Sun teams are viable. Trick Room teams, Rain, Hail, Sand, Offence, Balance... Stall less so (Most things in NU hit like bricks)
I generally use some pokemon that are unexpected, even in NU, to massive effect. No-one who's not played me expects the Swords Dance Victreebel to drop in on them (Especially as I tend to slightly vary the set/EV's), and I've swept teams with my lead before... Floatzel FTW.
Magmortar, as I think I've said before, is possibly broken. The Scarf set is a nightmare, considering that Mag's already fast for NU, and has the Equal 2nd Highest SP.Attack in the teir, combined with the 6th highest BST... and the movepool and ability to actually USE it. (Above him are Slaking and Regigias, who are crippled from the get-go, Regice, Articuno, and Entei, not known for stellar movepools.)
The Specs Set can basically OHKO anything that's not Shuckle, or a devoted special wall, or resists what's thrown at it. Neutral hits will put down most things in the teir from SpecsMortar
MixMortar is quite nasty too, harder to counter it when your check is slammed with Cross Chop instead of a Fire type move.
SubPunchMortar is nasty as well... heck, SubMortar is nasty, with the switches it forces. (Like Subtran)
Yeah, NU has a few possible suspects right now, in decending order:
Magmortar
Linoone
Walrein (Stallrein is hard to stop in NU... in fact, Walrein isn't that bad outside of StallRein either :/)
Medicham
Charizard
Primeape
The last may confuse a few of you, but Primeape is nasty. ScarfApe can tear things to bits with STAB Close Combats, Base 105 Attack, and Base 95 + Scarf Speed...
Then there's BandApe, due to the already high Speed, it dosen't need the boost... and hits even physical walls/fighting resists massivly hard with Close Combat.
It's listed below Charizard, but I feel a few people might agree with this.
And, yes, NU is highly volitile and variable. There are few staples, unlike OU, where there is tons of centraliseation, but there are centralised pokemon, most of them the possible suspects... although Linoone and Walrein are uncommon.
I mean, Sun teams are viable. Trick Room teams, Rain, Hail, Sand, Offence, Balance... Stall less so (Most things in NU hit like bricks)
I generally use some pokemon that are unexpected, even in NU, to massive effect. No-one who's not played me expects the Swords Dance Victreebel to drop in on them (Especially as I tend to slightly vary the set/EV's), and I've swept teams with my lead before... Floatzel FTW.
If this is less harsh than what you posted before, I'd really hate to see what you posted before because this is pure drivel.
The truth is that we have a desire to use different pokes in different situations. If we only used the strongest pokemon at all times, every team would be chock-full of Ubers, leaving very viable OU pokes like Flygon, Empoleon, and Dragonite out to dry. Thus, we tier things. NU is just an extension of this system as the pokes that reside in NU do have some interesting abilities but these abilities just aren't utilized well in the UU metagame. It's also an exploratory exercise since new sets are discovered very frequently in NU and it's a lot of fun to "discover" something new.
We also get to use Marowak and Charizard.:naughty:
No, No, No I am not fighting the tier system, it is brilliant, you misunderstand....I am directing this purely at the NU tier, I am saying most are marketing gimmicks and are meant to be used ingame not really in the metagame [except for Marowak, Charizard [do not even get started on Zard he should be Fire/Drag and in UU] and Rampardos]
The two advantages Charizard has over Magmortar are speed and STAB Air Slash. Magmortar may have Thunderbolt, but because of its terrible speed even for NU (a huge portion of used NU pokemon are faster), it doesn't really have the opportunities to shine. Scarf Magmortar is not very powerful at all and tends to be very predictable.
Medicham is also heavily crippled by its speed. It also has no bulk whatsoever. Though it can hit like a truck, stall can use Pokemon like Dusclops and Leafeon to beat it and usually 2/3 of an offensive team is faster and most can OHKO.
Walrein is just as easy to work around in NU as it is in other tiers, in fact, it could be even easier, as the move Encore is more common (Jumpluff, Quagsire, Poliwrath, Raichu, Golduck, and more). To be blunt, I really think that if this guy is stalling a majority of your team, then you really need to rework it.
will comment on others later
And no, I'm not dismissing Magmortar or Medicham as threats, but with their middling speed, they cannot wreak the destruction on offensive and balanced teams that Charizard can.
Medicham is also heavily crippled by its speed. It also has no bulk whatsoever. Though it can hit like a truck, stall can use Pokemon like Dusclops and Leafeon to beat it and usually 2/3 of an offensive team is faster and most can OHKO.
Walrein is just as easy to work around in NU as it is in other tiers, in fact, it could be even easier, as the move Encore is more common (Jumpluff, Quagsire, Poliwrath, Raichu, Golduck, and more). To be blunt, I really think that if this guy is stalling a majority of your team, then you really need to rework it.
will comment on others later
And no, I'm not dismissing Magmortar or Medicham as threats, but with their middling speed, they cannot wreak the destruction on offensive and balanced teams that Charizard can.
I haven't had trouble with Walrein, but I'm saying, it is a possible suspect. The fact you cited Encore, which is not used in such an offensive environment, is evidence that it is hard to stop. Jumpluff, the only 'real' NU user of it, is a suicide lead 90% of the time.
Also, Maggy's Speed is Above Average, below are the Average Base Stats of:
NU and competitive NFEs*
HP 68
Attack 77
Defense 73
Special Attack 70
Special Defense 72
Speed 65
Base 83 is actually above average, and is a good speed stat in NU. While, yes, other threats ARE faster... that's why people use ScarfMortar.
In fact, Mag has above average Base Stats EVERYWHERE, except defence, which is possibly made up for by the higher HP. Combined with one of the best movepools of NU, and you can see why one might consider it a suspect.
Also, Maggy's Speed is Above Average, below are the Average Base Stats of:
NU and competitive NFEs*
HP 68
Attack 77
Defense 73
Special Attack 70
Special Defense 72
Speed 65
Base 83 is actually above average, and is a good speed stat in NU. While, yes, other threats ARE faster... that's why people use ScarfMortar.
In fact, Mag has above average Base Stats EVERYWHERE, except defence, which is possibly made up for by the higher HP. Combined with one of the best movepools of NU, and you can see why one might consider it a suspect.
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