NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Do bear Electabuzz in mind though. I know it's an NFE, so it'll get ignored by some people, but it actually beats Raichu in HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed. Not to mention, they have the same ability, and Electabuzz has a larger movepool.

The useful moves that Raichu gets that Electabuzz doesn't are Nasty Plot, Grass Knot, Encore, Surf and Volt Tackle, but the list of moves that Electabuzz gets that Raichu doesn't is a bit longer.

But basically, if I see a Choice Specs Raichu, with Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, HP Ice and Grass Knot, I'd be a bit confused as to why the person isn't using an Electabuzz.

 

[blasphemy1]

Do bear Electabuzz in mind though. I know it's an NFE, so it'll get ignored by some people, but it actually beats Raichu in HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed. Not to mention, they have the same ability, and Electabuzz has a larger movepool.

The useful moves that Raichu gets that Electabuzz doesn't are Nasty Plot, Grass Knot, Encore, Surf and Volt Tackle, but the list of moves that Electabuzz gets that Raichu doesn't is a bit longer.

But basically, if I see a Choice Specs Raichu, with Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, HP Ice and Grass Knot, I'd be a bit confused as to why the person isn't using an Electabuzz.

He can't learn a grass move, to start with, so he loses coverage on grounds and ground/water types. IMO, this is a huge reason to use Raichu > Electabuzz.

 

[MegaKick]

but raichu dpesn't get cross chop to hit regice hard. Raichu is more of a sweeper, while electabuzz breaks down walls with hp: ice, thunderbolt, psychic, and cross chop. Or you could run a gimmicky surprise choice band set. Choice band cross shop usually kos regice sith stealth rock.

 

[Mattman324]

Uaa, that's only really if a Regice user is stupid enough to switch it into an Electabuzz. Personally, I'd use something like Quagsire to switch into it. Or another electric type.

Besides, all this talk is moot when you realise that, with Switcharoo, CSpecs Manectric has become the best electric in the tier. It gets perfect coverage with T-Bolt, Flamethrower, and HP Grass, and can really pound away at you're opponent.

 

[blasphemy1]

Uaa, that's only really if a Regice user is stupid enough to switch it into an Electabuzz. Personally, I'd use something like Quagsire to switch into it. Or another electric type.

Besides, all this talk is moot when you realise that, with Switcharoo, CSpecs Manectric has become the best electric in the tier. It gets perfect coverage with T-Bolt, Flamethrower, and HP Grass, and can really pound away at you're opponent.

I agree.

@ Ubers are Awesome: Raichu does, however, get Focus Punch, and has higher attack, which allows him to OHKO on the switchin w/stealth rock.

 

[dbcb]

Has anyone had any success with Charizard so far?

 

[blasphemy1]

Has anyone had any success with Charizard so far?

Bellyzard is an option, but any special/mixed set is flat-out outclassed by Magmortar(access to Thunderbolt, Cross Chop, higher SpA). Problem with Charizard is his problem in any other tier: Stealth Rock. It is still prevalent in the NU tier, although admittedly spinning is a bit easier since Driftblim left :)

 

[dbcb]

Is it really "flat out" out classed? I haven't played much NU so this isn't attacking your position or anything (I don't know all the threats in NU yet) but does charizard's speed and immunity to ground not help it at all?


(is there anywhere to find NU statistics btw?)

 

[blasphemy1]

Is it really "flat out" out classed? I haven't played much NU so this isn't attacking your position or anything (I don't know all the threats in NU yet) but does charizard's speed and immunity to ground not help it at all?


(is there anywhere to find NU statistics btw?)

4x weakness to Stealth Rock is what negates that nice ground immunity and fighting resist IMO. His higher speed is nice, but Magmortar has Cross Chop and Thunderbolt, as well as higher attack and special attack.

 

[fitzy72]

*this point may have already been said as i havn't read the rest of the thread, if it has feel free to delete this post*
I noticed in the threat list magnatone(sp) is still there, but hasn't it recently been moved to UU?

 

[Lezowski]

Charizard had base 100 speed. Not only is most of the NU metagame incredibly slow, but he outpaces the key 95, and to a lesser extent 85, speeds that many popular pokemon possess. Magmortar has 83 base speed, which is decent but definitely not fast. Stealth Rocks hurt, but it won't stop it from getting several kills if the opponent doesn't have anything faster.

 

[blasphemy1]

Charizard had base 100 speed. Not only is most of the NU metagame incredibly slow, but he outpaces the key 95, and to a lesser extent 85, speeds that many popular pokemon possess. Magmortar has 83 base speed, which is decent but definitely not fast. Stealth Rocks hurt, but it won't stop it from getting several kills if the opponent doesn't have anything faster.

Does it really matter when Gastrodon, Grumpig, Ninetales, Relicanth, and Quagsire all switch in relatively unscathed? Magmortar has the same problems with them, sure, but atleast it does more damage to them and takes 25% less from Stealth Rock.

 

[M BLADE]

Charizard makes a great Subpetaya poke. Fire Blast is overkill(it OHKO everything that doesn't resist the hit in this tier and Air Slash can pick some pokes out with hax. HP grass kills any water/ground pokes. You can have Sunny Day and Solarbeam too.
It was a monster in UU( it did 65% to Chansey, 87% with Sunny Day IIRC). In NU it is even easier to put holes in other teams.
With Sunny Day even Hypno is OHKO by Charizard enormous power. Besides waters, the only thing that can stand a FB hit with all those boosts is a defensive Grumpig thanks to Thick Fat.

 

[PK Gaming]

So Raichu beats that pesky Buzz head? By a tad? Nice!!!
Grassknot FTW.

Why the fuck does Electabuzz beat Raichu in so many stats? Does GFreak hate him?

Move over Magmortar/Charizard, but the looks of it, Typhlosion will wreak NU.
(his usages are piss poor, he'll make it there eventually)

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

So Raichu beats that pesky Buzz head? By a tad? Nice!!!
Grassknot FTW.

Why the fuck does Electabuzz beat Raichu in so many stats? Does GFreak hate him?

Move over Magmortar/Charizard, but the looks of it, Typhlosion will wreak NU.
(his usages are piss poor, he'll make it there eventually)

I too, am a bit confused as to why they chose to evolve Electabuzz and, while we're on Electric types, Magneton, but they just did. Heck, Magneton was actually OU at the time we discovered it was evolving!

But, in all honesty, after the shock of them giving Chansey an evolution in GSC, this seems like nothing.

But whether Raichu is better than Electabuzz depends on the role its playing, and what moves you want. Whether you want Cross Chop/Low Kick/Karate Chop/Rolling Kick, Psychic, Signal Beam, Ice Punch, Fire Punch better defesive stats and better special sweeping stats, or whether you want a better Attack stat, Surf, Grass Knot, Encore, Nasty Plot and Volt Tackle.

I just recommend people keep Electabuzz in mind when choosing their Electric type. If you're using a Raichu with Substitute, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice, you're quite stupid.

 

[Whitakker]

Sorry if the following sounds uneducated, but I'm pretty new to the competitive battling aspect of Pokemon, and I've been working with NU since I started only a half-year ago. Since this is the NU discussion thread, I wanted to throw an idea or two your way.

I've been trying to come up with a better NU team than the one I already have (which hasn't done me too well), and I was considering a sleep team, with several members of the team having access to sleep. Members included Hypno, Parasect, and Noctowl, these having accesss to Hypnosis (Hypno/Noctowl) and Spore, the famous/infamous 100% hit ratio sleep move (Parasect). I thought these three might be good, since Hypno is considered (at least from what I've read) at the forefront of the NU metagame, can take hits, has access to a lot of boosting moves (Nasty Plot/Baton Pass/Reflect/Light Screen), and can be used as a tank if needed. Parasect, while admittedly weak to Fire, Flying, and Ice, has a 4x resist to Ground, which means he might be able to come in on EQ and wreak havoc with Spore and a well-placed Seed Bomb or X-Scissor, especially if Hypno has B-passed his Nasty Plot/Reflect/Light Screen to him. Noctowl is also another safeguard against EQ, although with an admittedly shallow movepool, but it can stay in a while with Roost, and can hit the passing Ghost with Night Shade (again, not very strong, but enough to give someone a headache if they use Haunter). I was also considering Poliwrath, though more geared toward the Defensive Tadpole set, but if I could work Hypnosis in there, it'd be nice.

My main problem lies in how to support these three pokemon. Any ideas that could help me out? If this idea seems shitty to you, by all means tell me why, and what I might try as an alternate.

 

[dbcb]

It seems shitty because what if you sleep on poke... and the opponent switches it out? now you have wasted move slots on 3 of your pokes. Not to mention you are banking on a 50% move hitting..

 

[anduril38]

Sorry if the following sounds uneducated, but I'm pretty new to the competitive battling aspect of Pokemon, and I've been working with NU since I started only a half-year ago. Since this is the NU discussion thread, I wanted to throw an idea or two your way.

I've been trying to come up with a better NU team than the one I already have (which hasn't done me too well), and I was considering a sleep team, with several members of the team having access to sleep. Members included Hypno, Parasect, and Noctowl, these having accesss to Hypnosis (Hypno/Noctowl) and Spore, the famous/infamous 100% hit ratio sleep move (Parasect). I thought these three might be good, since Hypno is considered (at least from what I've read) at the forefront of the NU metagame, can take hits, has access to a lot of boosting moves (Nasty Plot/Baton Pass/Reflect/Light Screen), and can be used as a tank if needed. Parasect, while admittedly weak to Fire, Flying, and Ice, has a 4x resist to Ground, which means he might be able to come in on EQ and wreak havoc with Spore and a well-placed Seed Bomb or X-Scissor, especially if Hypno has B-passed his Nasty Plot/Reflect/Light Screen to him. Noctowl is also another safeguard against EQ, although with an admittedly shallow movepool, but it can stay in a while with Roost, and can hit the passing Ghost with Night Shade (again, not very strong, but enough to give someone a headache if they use Haunter). I was also considering Poliwrath, though more geared toward the Defensive Tadpole set, but if I could work Hypnosis in there, it'd be nice.

My main problem lies in how to support these three pokemon. Any ideas that could help me out? If this idea seems shitty to you, by all means tell me why, and what I might try as an alternate.

Bear in mind once you've put one Poke to sleep, Sleep clause becomes active making the other part of your strategy useless.

 

[Whitakker]

You both make valid points. When I was considering this team, I thought of turning it into a statusing team, with others that use paralysis and poison. That method certainly opens up more of the NU for me to work with. If I had just one of those pokes to work with on sleep, I'd probably go for Hypno, like almost everyone does. There's several good Toxic users in NU, so I imagine I could find one that has good synergy with Hypno. As for paralysis, any good T-Wave users you could recommend?

I realize that this idea was pretty crappy to begin with, but I wanted (somewhat vainly) to believe that it could work.

 

[monkeyman]

4x weakness to Stealth Rock is what negates that nice ground immunity and fighting resist IMO. His higher speed is nice, but Magmortar has Cross Chop and Thunderbolt, as well as higher attack and special attack.

Its not that hard to prevent stealth rock set up in Nu...
just lead with a taunter and BAM! no rocks
If they get set up mid game thats your fault


Btw
DD Charizard is amazing...
DD
EQ
Fire Punch/Flare Blitz
ThunderPunch

that set recks alot of stuff

only 3 of those guys can really counter Charizard
Relicanth Quagsire Gastradon... Leafeon Says Hi =p
if you have a DD under your belt EQ can do nice damage to Relicanth anyway

not that hard to get a zard to set up

 

[Lezowski]

Charizard doesn't even need extensive set up to work. He works perfectly fine with just sub. He outspeeds most of the tier and can get that nice blaze boost and maybe a pinch berry.

 

[Yehom]

I find it difficult to believe, but why is Manectric in NU?

 

[petrie911]

I find it difficult to believe, but why is Manectric in NU?

The current NU list is based on the pre-HGSS metagame. Manectric didn't have Switheroo then, making it more wallable, and Electric-types just generally seem less popular in UU. Of course, at the moment, he's probably not seeing much UU use due to Raikou's presence in the tier. Raikou may not totally outclass Manectric, but you're not going to have both on the same team, and if you're going to just have 1, Raikou is probably better.

 

[Raikaria]

Do bear Electabuzz in mind though. I know it's an NFE, so it'll get ignored by some people, but it actually beats Raichu in HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed. Not to mention, they have the same ability, and Electabuzz has a larger movepool.

The useful moves that Raichu gets that Electabuzz doesn't are Nasty Plot, Grass Knot, Encore, Surf and Volt Tackle, but the list of moves that Electabuzz gets that Raichu doesn't is a bit longer.

But basically, if I see a Choice Specs Raichu, with Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, HP Ice and Grass Knot, I'd be a bit confused as to why the person isn't using an Electabuzz.

Nasty Plot alone is enough reason to use something as a sweeper over something with the same type, ability, and similar stats.

Chaizard is very useful, if used correctly.

In other words, with team support. Floatzel makes a GREAT lead with Charizard, as it outspeeds every single SR user in the teir, and can beat most of them as well.

My personal set uses Waterfall, Aqua Jet, Taunt, and (Move Rotates due to metagame shifts) On the rare occasion that Floatzel cannot beat the opposing lead, it switches out for later.

Without Rocks, which are a MAJOR weakness of Charizard, one particular set can rip NU to ribbons. One which no-one has mentioned.

Swords Dance.

At +2, even the bulky waters, such as Quagsire and Gastrodon, cannot switch in, take a hit, then take another hit before being KO'ed. Swords Dance Charizard dies to very few things. Without a Scarfer, or something such as Floatzel, or several priority users, SD Charizard is an instant win if it sets up.

Personally, I'd be backing a suspect test of Charizard. People haven't yet cottoned on to the fact that SR is more preventable in NU than anywhere else, and that can be majorly abused.

Also, LeadZard, anyone? I doubt anyone would waste time setting up rocks while Charizard is out, setting up DD/SD.

Now, for a few things I want to point out/ask:

1. The ladder seems dead whenever I go on Q_Q.
2. Anyone had any sucess with Kingler/Crawdaunt? Agility and DD respectivly are massive boosts for those two.

 

[RaichuGuardian]

Hell, I still use Raichu in OU. His abillity to surprise Swampert with GKnot and Encore any SR users is awesome. I honestly cannot believe he is NU, but its usage.