I'm really glad to see this thread. To me, this tier has been sick for a long time, maybe even since ORAS era. No doubt that there have to be some changes to be made.
The biggest problem of this tier is that the match-up factor plays a more and more important role in the game, which reveals that the meta is longing for changes. The better player cannot always win the game. It makes this tier more like a morra. That's the reason why good players in the tier go inactive and the tiering officials called out this tier.
For example, the Double Dance Primal Groudon may pose a huge threat to many teams. But scouting that set out is really risky, as the mixed set can easily cause a unacceptable damage to those checks, such as HP Ice to Zygrade, and Eruption/Overheat to Arceus-ground. The similar thing happens on Necrozma now as well. Same as P-Groudon, it can do Swords Dance and Rock Polish. Then with the combination of Z-move, weakness policy, morning sun and Ultra-burst, it causes quite a headache when scouting the set and dealing with it properly.
What I am trying to argue here is that it's actually the
boost moves with those bulky high-offensive mons that gradually ruin the tier. It actually started back from Xerneas's Geomancy. These boost move(s) combinations (allowing a mon to boost both the atk/spa and speed stats) highly increase the possibility of a sweep, and in addition, all these three mons are too bulky to OHKO (not Xerneas anymore with the rise of Necrozma-DM but without Nec it's still a huge threat). Moreover, P-Groudon is immune to burn and Necrozma-DM is immune to the poison. P-Groudon can even run mixed set and with its high offensive stats together with the weather addition, making a sweep possible even with only one boost in speed when played correctly. Evidently, both the offensive and defensive measure against these threats are quite limited: they are just bulky enough to make it hard to check offensively / revenge kill and pose absurd pressure on the defensive side.
Back in ORAS, there was that infamous sample HO team: The main idea of this team is exactly using one suicide lead with a bunch of bulky boost sweepers. We've already seen how this reformed the meta. Now we even have more sweepers. Compared to the offensive side which is strengthened by Mega, Primal Reversion, and Z-move, the defensive side never gets a substantial upgrade equivalent to those offensive upgrade. There is not enough space for a team to cover so many threats at the same time now. The team-building options are strongly limited because of the sweeper threats. And the limitation of team building deteriorates the problem of match-up factor.
Then I'm going to discuss based on those three basic tier policies, which are broken, uncompetitive and unhealthy. Based on the definition of "uncompetitive", the match-up factor actually has to be considered. It does reduce the effect of player choice/interaction on the end result. I'll explain how to relieve its influence in the following. I also need to mention Goth here. It's really hard to say how this mon change this tier as it only has very low usage. Nonetheless, it's specifically aimed at the semi-stall/stall team and remove key component on those teams. It makes many games even more brainless with the most popular pp stall set.
There's no doubt that some mons are actually in a higher level based on its incredible strength, which can be claimed to be "broken". However, in Uber tier, it's not that simple to ban a whole mon away from it. The tier itself will always form a kind of balance, while the balance in Uber is so vulnerable because of its shallow pokemon pool. It's easy for me to judge that P-Groudon is too broken. But roughly breaking the balance will make
the minimal amount of bans unfeasible. The ban on P-Groudon will immediately cause the problem of Kyogre, which will trigger a chain reaction. Same with Necrozma, the ban on it will make Geomancy Xerneas revive. Compared to ORAS, it even has more threat with Z-Geomancy.
So I have a strong willingness to ask for implementing a
complex ban in the Uber tier now. I understand it's the tradition that we don't make complex bans, esp. the "overcomplex ones." However, it's still better to do these complex bans than watch this tier dying without doing anything or watch an endless chain reaction. The complex ban also won't cause any bad outcome. With proper use, it may even do a better job. Now comes my suggestion:
ban Rock Polish on P-Groudon, ban Sword Dance on P-Groudon and Necrozma-Dawn/Dusk, ban Goth. And the order of suspect can be RP and SD on P-Groudon, SD on Necrozma and Goth respectively.
Basically, it's those boost moves make P-Groudon and Necrozma broken. So the simplest way is just to get rid of the exact element that causes the problem. Without speed boost, the speed of P-Groudon won't be hard for the offensive team to handle anymore. Without attack boost, many walls depending on resistance/immunity will be able to deal with P-Groudon. I am not proposing a ban of speed boosting moves on Necrozma because its base power is not as strong as P-Groudon. It only has a one-time usage Z-move that may cause some problem. Without attack boost, mons like Ho-oh, Zygarde, Ferrothorn, Giratina can become more reliable options for checks.
The bans proposed above will highly increase the team-building options. It offers more choices to check P-Groudon and Necrozma. It would also free some mons that lack enough offensive pressure to deal with Goth. The players will be able to build a team with a more comprehensive coverage for the threats in the tier. With the ability to deal with more situation, it reduces the matchup factor in the game. Moreover, the styles of teams will increase and there will be more room for players to make decisions in the game, which increases the playability of the tier. Though the diversity is not under the consideration while discussing a ban, many mons will also truly benefit from the weakened sweeping threat in the meta. The other problem such as Geomancy can be remained for observing after the first three bans are decided.
Excuse my English and s/o
fsk for grammar helps.
