I will be voting to ban sablenite, in the absence of being offered an opportunity to ban magic bounce or sablenite and diancite in the same run.
In the first place here is the main team i used for qualifying:
ferrothorn, bisharp, hippo, spd wisp talon, diancie, starmie
as you can see this IS a stall team.
if the pro-ban side, or really any side, is going to get anywhere it needs to move away from centering binaries like the stall-offense binary. Mega pokemon and several other factors, particularly team preview, have been the end of any meaningful understanding of the metagame that arises from talking generally about 'stall' or 'offense'. these are like the two least rigorously definable terms ever. it should just be a rule that these terms cant be used to make srs arguments, since they are so dumb and perpetuate the myths that keep the children-players on this forum as scrubs that will never be good at pkmn. do you also think you need a mixed wall, a physical wall, and a physical sweeper, a special sweeper, and a mixed sweeper, then youre sure to have a good team right? ban chansey, it doesnt lose to any mixed sweepers!!! sorry these arguments about the viability of stall depending on a certain pokemon are even dumber than debates about the viability rankings.
Magic Bounce is something we should be talking about, but there is probably a faction with better than average standing that is motivated to situate suspect tests in a certain way, maybe not intentionally, but obstructively. We are testing sablenite and not all magic bounce because there are high standing people in this community that dont want to see sableye go and so theyre putting us through this really stupid suspect test that should be about magic bounce. They are fooled by/fooling with the notion that m-sableye makes stall viable, when sableye is a pokemon that destroys 'stall' in literally dozens of ways, stopping them from laying hazards, spinning, using status, phazing, etc. That is fucking delusional, im sorry. Im not gonna tag you but when you talk about how sableye makes stall viable i am just like, you are so out of it, it beats every pokemon on stall 1v1 with most of it's sets and def with a cm set it 6-0s. wtf. wtf. wtf. if the counter argument to this rant amounts to 'clefable' str8 miss me with that, broken things countering broken things is how we got into this meta in the first place.
Anyway we should try to ban diancie and sableye (and espeon/mabsol too i guess if we want to do it the fast way) and then manaphy and clefable, then mmedicham, mlopunny. the meta should then stabilize with few additional bans needed.
we are playing a game of skill not a game of rock paper scissors in predicting team matchups or even moves in a battle (the 50-50). sableye is both horrible for the meta on t0, and creates gross 50-50s right and left in battle, ala magic bounce.
stall has been viable since day 1 of xy/oras. and will continue to be viable. ban ban ban.
sure the meta without sab is horrible, so is the meta with sab. embrace change, u can ban ur way to a good meta, almost all the good metas got that way from being to willing to ban for the sake of the meta.
and learn a lesson from bw: if we dont do the bans now, bkc or ojama or someone will just introduce all the bans we would be doing rn at a world cup a few years down the line. and then the meta wont be fresh anymore and it will be a major chore, so, my advice is to get it over with now. if we get it wrong, theyll undo the bans in similar fashion.
tl-dr- sableye fucks stall so hard that the posters who are only familiar with oras dont even know what stall is, and think sableye makes stall viable. the only way it could make stall viable is by being so restrictive that stall teams can be built to manage all the other common pokemon besides m sableye, which would probs still shit on it.
In the first place here is the main team i used for qualifying:
ferrothorn, bisharp, hippo, spd wisp talon, diancie, starmie
as you can see this IS a stall team.
if the pro-ban side, or really any side, is going to get anywhere it needs to move away from centering binaries like the stall-offense binary. Mega pokemon and several other factors, particularly team preview, have been the end of any meaningful understanding of the metagame that arises from talking generally about 'stall' or 'offense'. these are like the two least rigorously definable terms ever. it should just be a rule that these terms cant be used to make srs arguments, since they are so dumb and perpetuate the myths that keep the children-players on this forum as scrubs that will never be good at pkmn. do you also think you need a mixed wall, a physical wall, and a physical sweeper, a special sweeper, and a mixed sweeper, then youre sure to have a good team right? ban chansey, it doesnt lose to any mixed sweepers!!! sorry these arguments about the viability of stall depending on a certain pokemon are even dumber than debates about the viability rankings.
Magic Bounce is something we should be talking about, but there is probably a faction with better than average standing that is motivated to situate suspect tests in a certain way, maybe not intentionally, but obstructively. We are testing sablenite and not all magic bounce because there are high standing people in this community that dont want to see sableye go and so theyre putting us through this really stupid suspect test that should be about magic bounce. They are fooled by/fooling with the notion that m-sableye makes stall viable, when sableye is a pokemon that destroys 'stall' in literally dozens of ways, stopping them from laying hazards, spinning, using status, phazing, etc. That is fucking delusional, im sorry. Im not gonna tag you but when you talk about how sableye makes stall viable i am just like, you are so out of it, it beats every pokemon on stall 1v1 with most of it's sets and def with a cm set it 6-0s. wtf. wtf. wtf. if the counter argument to this rant amounts to 'clefable' str8 miss me with that, broken things countering broken things is how we got into this meta in the first place.
Anyway we should try to ban diancie and sableye (and espeon/mabsol too i guess if we want to do it the fast way) and then manaphy and clefable, then mmedicham, mlopunny. the meta should then stabilize with few additional bans needed.
we are playing a game of skill not a game of rock paper scissors in predicting team matchups or even moves in a battle (the 50-50). sableye is both horrible for the meta on t0, and creates gross 50-50s right and left in battle, ala magic bounce.
stall has been viable since day 1 of xy/oras. and will continue to be viable. ban ban ban.
sure the meta without sab is horrible, so is the meta with sab. embrace change, u can ban ur way to a good meta, almost all the good metas got that way from being to willing to ban for the sake of the meta.
and learn a lesson from bw: if we dont do the bans now, bkc or ojama or someone will just introduce all the bans we would be doing rn at a world cup a few years down the line. and then the meta wont be fresh anymore and it will be a major chore, so, my advice is to get it over with now. if we get it wrong, theyll undo the bans in similar fashion.
tl-dr- sableye fucks stall so hard that the posters who are only familiar with oras dont even know what stall is, and think sableye makes stall viable. the only way it could make stall viable is by being so restrictive that stall teams can be built to manage all the other common pokemon besides m sableye, which would probs still shit on it.