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np: Latios - "unban me"
- Thread starter Jumpman16
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I never said Latios made SpecsMence obsolete, just inferior. Even if Mence outdamages Steels with the Fire move, Hydro Pump is not advantageous to Surf. I'm not saying the ~80% accurate moves are always inferior to their 100% accurate counterparts, but in the case of Choice Pokemon I think they need to hit as often as possible.
They are different in a lot of ways, so I'm assuming if you really wanted you could use both.
Also I haven't seen a specsmence since latias became OU other that the one I just haxed in the tour. I think its being replaced, although as people have said they do play differently with advantages and disadvantages to both.
They're two separate pokemons, so no species clause.
Absolutely true. Access to fire blast and hydro pump is not enough to compensate the fact that latios reaches 359 special attack with a neutral nature (and 350 speed with a positive nature) while salamence stops at 350 with modest nature.
I'd personally object to a Species Clause esque restriction but "I object to everything"...
Anyhow, a few scattered battles here and there in the Suspect ladder have led me to believe that DS Memento Latios has a ton of potential. I threw an offensive team together in 5 minutes (teams I traditionally suck with) and won a few battles (and lost a few too but not by much!). I'll get back on once my Shoddy uncrashes itself.
Other thing with potential: Scarf Heracross and Heracross in general. Latios / 5 steels doesn't like fast Megahorns or Close Combats fucking shit up, and stall teams don't like Heracross in general. An Expert Belt / Leftovers (fuck you sandstorm making flame orb suck) Heracross with some Speed passed to it is one of the receivers I've been trying out (though I used Flame Orb and watched it kill itself) and it just tears shit into tiny little pieces.
Anyhow, a few scattered battles here and there in the Suspect ladder have led me to believe that DS Memento Latios has a ton of potential. I threw an offensive team together in 5 minutes (teams I traditionally suck with) and won a few battles (and lost a few too but not by much!). I'll get back on once my Shoddy uncrashes itself.
Other thing with potential: Scarf Heracross and Heracross in general. Latios / 5 steels doesn't like fast Megahorns or Close Combats fucking shit up, and stall teams don't like Heracross in general. An Expert Belt / Leftovers (fuck you sandstorm making flame orb suck) Heracross with some Speed passed to it is one of the receivers I've been trying out (though I used Flame Orb and watched it kill itself) and it just tears shit into tiny little pieces.
Stall is really prominent. I'm considering switching natures and adding Outrage to Life Orb Latios to beat Blissey. Mixmence does mixed sets better, but Outrage is a horrible surprise for her, especially considering Stall Blissey usually isn't Bold, nor does she pack a lot of HP EVs.
Outrage usually requires + atk nature and a lot of attack evs to hurt blissey, so I don't think it's a good idea. The best way to beat blissey with latios is to predict a blissey switch in and trick her your choice specs (this assuming you're running a specs set, of course).
Not really, a neutral natured outrage with Max Attk and Life Orb does minimum 60% to Blissey
A +1 neutral max Outrage does 60% minimum, while EQ does ~40%. The combo can finish off Blissey, but she usually gets the hell outta dodge after that EQ.
I am having a lot of trouble building teams for the suspect ladder. A team can manage for a few battles and then get completely 6-0'd a game later. Part of this is my problem with team building, but teams have a lot of trouble beating the super stall of suspect and beating hyper offense at the same time. It's aggrivating.
I am having a lot of trouble building teams for the suspect ladder. A team can manage for a few battles and then get completely 6-0'd a game later. Part of this is my problem with team building, but teams have a lot of trouble beating the super stall of suspect and beating hyper offense at the same time. It's aggrivating.
46.70% - 54.99% is 0 attack Life Orb Outrage versus 651/119 Calm Blissey. Not very impressive, really.
I tried out the LO Outrage set and found it to be pretty lackluster. It misses KOs even on stuff like Blissey and Rotom and being locked into a Dragon attack is pretty terrible when everyone is using 2 Steels. The only sets I have seen come to any sort of effectiveness are the Specs set and the defensive CM set with either Refresh or Reflect. Specs Meteor trashes pretty much everything besides Blissey, who hates Trick anyway, and the CM sets are hell for stall teams to deal with.
One cool thing about this metagame as opposed to Latias is that there are not the gobs of steel types there were before. Since the specs set is way more common than CM, countering with things like Scizor and Heatran and Magnezone is a really terrible idea, and instead players must turn to Blissey, Vaporeon, or prediction. I actually think this metagame is a lot of fun =)
One cool thing about this metagame as opposed to Latias is that there are not the gobs of steel types there were before. Since the specs set is way more common than CM, countering with things like Scizor and Heatran and Magnezone is a really terrible idea, and instead players must turn to Blissey, Vaporeon, or prediction. I actually think this metagame is a lot of fun =)
Just been battling around, I haven't found Latios too hard to handle, I've been able to revenge kill 90% of the time. It's so much easier to get rid of than Latias was. I haven't faced any Latios using dualscreens yet maybe that's the most differcult set as people say so oo, just been up against specs, mix and CM sets, they've been handled with ease.
I dunno I haven't found latios to be that difficult to handle and kind of predictable (because the majority of the people are running the same sets), although the choice specs one can dish out some damage, but Latios is too easy to revenge kill imo, because of its frailty.
So far I have found it kind of underwhelming but I'm not sure that I want it to be ou because there are already so many freaking dragons in OU....but I guess thats just me.
So far I have found it kind of underwhelming but I'm not sure that I want it to be ou because there are already so many freaking dragons in OU....but I guess thats just me.
That CM Refresh Recover Dragon Pulse set is hell for stall teams to deal with. Honestly makes Snatch Bliss an option as a strong counter or they really could only result to phazing it with Skarm over and over again until it was the last poke and Perish Song with Celebi. Which wouldn't work so well as Latios would eventually wear down the phazers.
Seeing and using Specs Latios in action honestly makes me think there is no way in heck that with Soul Dew it could fly. Having the power of Specs with the ability to switch attacks and also being able to run Calm Mind and Recover. Honestly the only safe switch in to the thing is Blissey to Specs Latios with Soul Dew it could Calm Mind so Bliss wouldn't even stand up to it.
Seeing and using Specs Latios in action honestly makes me think there is no way in heck that with Soul Dew it could fly. Having the power of Specs with the ability to switch attacks and also being able to run Calm Mind and Recover. Honestly the only safe switch in to the thing is Blissey to Specs Latios with Soul Dew it could Calm Mind so Bliss wouldn't even stand up to it.
With only Dragon Pulse, Skarm can Roost off the damage so you'll need to kill him first.
Of course I know Outrage locks you into play, I'm not stupid. I'm just saying it's a fair option, considering Bliss will always die to Draco Meteor + 2 Stealth Rock + Outrage unless she runs max Special Defence, and none of them run more than 216 or even 176. Stall is just that prominent. The problem is that without EVs it just doesn't hurt anything else much, so it'd be a bit of a last gasp.
I've been using Calm Mind Jirachi, and to say it's good is an understatement. Stall teams lacking Swampert tend to get taken down by a Flash Cannon or Psychic/Thunderbolt combo (Swampert will eventually fall to Psychic, but it's hard to get boosts against him because of EQ and Roar). Jirachi can easily come in on most Latios thanks to its resistance and high HP and it can also come in on the much-whored Scizor, set up a Sub and start sweeping. I've bumped its Speed up to 320 to beat neutral natured Latios, though (the most common). Jirachi can still beat Calm Blissey whatever the moveset unless it comes in on Thunder Wave, but it will need to get a Special Defence drop to garuntee the victory (and be in good health so S-toss isn't too much of a problem, other special attacks get walled badly after a few Calm Minds, even Flamethrower).
Of course I know Outrage locks you into play, I'm not stupid. I'm just saying it's a fair option, considering Bliss will always die to Draco Meteor + 2 Stealth Rock + Outrage unless she runs max Special Defence, and none of them run more than 216 or even 176. Stall is just that prominent. The problem is that without EVs it just doesn't hurt anything else much, so it'd be a bit of a last gasp.
I've been using Calm Mind Jirachi, and to say it's good is an understatement. Stall teams lacking Swampert tend to get taken down by a Flash Cannon or Psychic/Thunderbolt combo (Swampert will eventually fall to Psychic, but it's hard to get boosts against him because of EQ and Roar). Jirachi can easily come in on most Latios thanks to its resistance and high HP and it can also come in on the much-whored Scizor, set up a Sub and start sweeping. I've bumped its Speed up to 320 to beat neutral natured Latios, though (the most common). Jirachi can still beat Calm Blissey whatever the moveset unless it comes in on Thunder Wave, but it will need to get a Special Defence drop to garuntee the victory (and be in good health so S-toss isn't too much of a problem, other special attacks get walled badly after a few Calm Minds, even Flamethrower).
If killing Blissey is worth scarficing your Latios (since it's a sitting duck for Tyranitar and Mamoswine) then Outrage Latios would be nice, but I don't see the payoff.
Anyhow if Calm Mind Jirachi is "as good as always" (meaning it's better and everyone should use Flash Cannon), I'm probably throwing it on my next team.
Anyhow if Calm Mind Jirachi is "as good as always" (meaning it's better and everyone should use Flash Cannon), I'm probably throwing it on my next team.
Because Stall doesn't usually pack Tyranitar and Mamoswine, that's the only reason I'd really use it.
I'd reccommend Jirachi to you, he's working well for me. Flash Cannon is IMO better than Psychic because of Tyranitar. Jirachi doesn't have great STABs since Poison/Ice aren't seen much as defensive types (and Thunderbolt hits Tentacruel for Super Effective anyway) but Psychic hits the fairly common Infernape and Machamp for SE while Flash Cannon hits the very common Tyranitar and it'll hit Mamoswine when (if) he makes a comeback thanks to Latios. There are probably Pokemon I'm forgetting. Psychic hits Swampert for more damage, so it's up to you. I think Thunderbolt is more effective than HP Ground though; Jirachi can't really set up against Heatran, although hitting it on the switch is always nice (or subbing and hitting).
I'd use the spread 252 HP/36 SpA/220 Spd Timid, which gives 404 HP/245 SpA/320 Speed. The Speed helps for setting up against Latios and outspeeds Modest Latios' maximum. You could move the 36 EVs to Special Defence to take hits from Latios.
I wrote the original revamp that recommended Flash Cannon, I think I'd know lol :P Anyhow I'd run HP Ground over Thunderbolt for Magnezone more than anything else.
Swampert is pretty useless on stall teams so don't worry too much about him. He also lacks recovery so can be worn down.
Anyways my Memento team keeps barely losing but punching large holes in teams before going down. I wish I sucked less at basic offensive play so I could actually see if it's the teams fault or mine... I'll post an RMT soon.
Swampert is pretty useless on stall teams so don't worry too much about him. He also lacks recovery so can be worn down.
Anyways my Memento team keeps barely losing but punching large holes in teams before going down. I wish I sucked less at basic offensive play so I could actually see if it's the teams fault or mine... I'll post an RMT soon.
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