NFE NFE Metagame Discussion

[Miyami~~~]

As a follow-up to the post I did at the last DLC release, I'm going to cover the new pokemon I think have a shot at viability from this one.



Honestly, I have no clue what to think of this. It was banned last gen, but I don't really see it being overwhelming?. As a defogger, its type is pretty good, countering Thwackey and Machoke and just generally being fat even if Kadabra murders it. I guess it could also run offensive sets like Nasty Plot or Scarf and boots is just generally good for it if it can fit it over eviolite, but I really don't know what it does yet. It's just a huge question mark for me.


So going into this I thought Electabuzz was going to be really unhealthy in the same way as Raboot or Pika, just a really strong wallbreaker that also happens to be an incredible pivot. And while it is all those things, with the best speed tier NFE can offer and boots to make sure it can't get worn down by pivoting, it also has literally no way to intercept volt switch blockers thanks to the removal of hidden power. (I guess if you want to be that guy you can run Ice Punch for a Gabite lure, but it doesn't even 2HKO defensive Gabite so) It'll be good still, probably, but require more substantial team support than last gen since Focus Blast isn't going to break past the Gabites or Marshtomps or Palpitoads of the tier. At least it'll make Chinchou a fringe pick again!


Magmar's going to be a monster in this meta, specs goes Brrrrr and it even picked up Scorching Sands to hit Mareanie and Lampent on the switch. Its Speed tier is good but really unfortunate as it's one point slower than Raboot and thus can't force it to play sucker mindgames, but it's good enough to shred fat teams and it can take a Glide from Thwackey if it has to, meaning it can come in and attempt to force it out if you don't have a better option available. Fire/Fighting/Ground coverage just doesn't have a lot of switchins and it'll be able to abuse that really well, especially so on Webs.


I really want this to be good but it's probably totally outclassed by Fraxure except as a special attacker, which it's not even that good at because of base 70 attack. Any sort of niche it has as an attacker would probably come from Espeed, which may or may not be worthwhile.


This is now the best Unburden/Grassy Seed abuser in the tier, which is an unbelievably low bar to clear but it can probably see some usage as part of dedicated grassy terrain teams. It notably gets Acrobatics and Grassy Glide, so you could have two Acro Thwackeys! Base 65 attack is not good and without hidden power it gets no special coverage, so it'll probably be bad but fun to experiment with for a bit. I think a Sub/Seed unburden set with Acro and a STAB move could also work, since it's the fastest thing in the tier after unburden and can punish grasses/combusken with acro if you invest enough into attack. I'd love to see this be good even if it probably won't be all that great.


Mercifully, Combusken missed out on Close Combat and U-Turn that Blaziken got, otherwise we'd probably have to ban it. Monferno getting stopped at the Galarian Border was the best thing to ever happen to combusken, as it lost the biggest reason not to use it. It can go physical or special and since it resists grassy glide it'll be a huge headache to deal with after a few turns of Speed Boost. Its coverage will probably still let it down a bit, as it does have some hard walls, but those probably depend on what set it chooses to run and you opponent would have to scout that out first.


Does marshtomp things, it sets rocks and spreads status and invests into physical or special bulk. Nothing really changed for it, and it'll still be fine here. I could see Palpitoad actually being more legitimate competition for it this time around, as the water immunity is actually pretty crucial with SS Wartortle being a huge threat and Marshtomp getting owned by it, but it'll still be a good pokemon, doubly so if something like a Pikachu/Magneton unban happens.


It gets Body Press! It'll still be mediocre to bad but Body Press is at least kind of cute. Iron Defense + Body Press shenanigans could be fun if Gorsola didn't exist.


I think this and Gabite were the good offensive rockers the tier was desperately missing. Losing Pursuit actually isn't all that terrible in a world where Haunter doesn't exist, although not trapping Kadabra is kind of lame. The meta is fairly hostile to it, as it doesn't like Raboot or Machoke and Thwackey with Knock or even Drain Punch can be a pain for it to deal with it, but it's a rocker with real offensive pressure attached to it and that's something the tier's completely lacked until now.


this might not be the most meta-warping drop, but it'll probably be the one with the most consistent impact on the tier. Rocks sets are a godsend for the tier since as previously mentioned we just haven't had a good offensive rocker at all (no, Krokorok doesn't count) and it can mildly annoy Raboot with Rough Skin on its u-turns. It even has some customization options like Roar, Taunt, and Toxic. Scarf sets will also probably be solid, especially with Dual Chop to revenge Kadabra, and I could even see a silly Hone Claws/Scale Shot/Dragon Rush/EQ set being run as a meme every once in a while. This is by far the drop I'm most excited for.


It's probably a worse Wartortle, but it notably has Power Herb Meteor Beam to let it murder Mareanie and just generally nuke stuff that Wartortle might have issues getting over at +3 with Hydro and stuff. Wartortle will still probably be better in the long run since it's noticeably faster (Omanyte actually needs Timid to outspeed Kadabra at +2, which cuts into your power somewhat) and Thwackey owns them both anyways, but it seems like it could be a real option in the tier. For what it's worth, Tirtouga is worse in every way but can also do smash + meteor beam and has Sturdy to stop Thwackey from revenging it, but it's still bad so /shrug


Lowkey, with Boots it actually seems like it might work as an offensive pokemon? It gets Dual Wingbeat and hits really hard with it, Edgequake is great, and it even gets Knock Off to pester switchins, so a set like this could show merit. Base 70 speed isn't fantastic but it qualifies as "good enough" in this tier, outspeeding up to Modest Gastly and it hits really hard with base 112 attack. Possibly a cool mon that probably slipped under the radar so far.


It can set hail and rocks in one slot and is therefore probably better than Snowpix on dedicated hail teams. It also gets Meteor Beam to nuke stuff now with Power Herb and maybe RP + Meteor Beam could be cute, but it probably won't see any use outside of enabling Snowshrew.


NP + Beast Boost seems cute but without hidden power or Z-Moves its coverage is depressingly awful (Poison/Dragon/Normal) and therefore it probably won't be viable at all. Maybe it can set Tspikes? I don't know.

This seems like a good DLC pack overall, with enough pokemon that'll have influence on the tier but nothing obviously broken that wasn't already here before (*cough* Machoke *cough*). I'm also curious to see if there'll be any unbans and if so, how they'll influence the tier.

 

[SBPC]

Hey friends, with DLC 2 coming closer the NFE Council has decided to make a major decision regarding the tier. With the release of Crown Tundra, NFE will be unbanning a lot of pokemon from the metagame, in order to see how they fair in the new, stronger meta.

The NFE Council was given a slate comprised of every pokemon on the current NFE Banlist.

The list of pokemon returning to the metagame is as follows: Gurdurr, Haunter, Ivysaur, Mr. Mime-Galar, Pawniard, Pikachu, Rufflet, Sneasel.
With this in mind, the NFE banlist is down to only these pokemon: Chansey, Doublade, Magneton, Porygon2, Rhydon, Scyther, Type: Null.
Council also briefly discussed Golbat, but unanimously agreed that a ban on it this early would be a bad idea.


We hope these changes will bring forth an incredibly fun metagame, and we encourage you to explore it to its depths, while posting any findings you have on this thread.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

First impressions of "The Brokens!"These takes are hot and fresh out of the oven, but you guys gotta taste em and let me know if they're half baked or not.

- Broken - Sets: Choice Band, SD - Checks: , , , , | , , (Choice Scarf?)
Sneasel is likely the most broken mon in the meta due to its Speed and STAB attack combo. The pressure between the immediate power from Choice Band or the threat of Swords Dance breaks too many cores and mons. STAB Knock Off is a treasure in NFE, and coming off a great Attack and Speed really limits switch-in opportunities. The checks I listed don't appreciate losing Eviolite obviously, and they then become more susceptible to Icicle Crash breaking them. Offensively pressuring it is the way to go with Mach Punch Gurdurr and maybe something like Choice Scarf Raboot if that catches on, but it's limited. Even some of the bulkiest mons in the meta like Piloswine and Lairion can't take its Fighting coverage, meaning with minimal support and chip damage, even tanks fall. This makes the frailty of Sneasel less of an issue as it just breaks through its checks. Although it should be noted that physically bulky mons can still take good trades with Sneasel while healthy, the Sneasel player is usually getting more from these tradeoffs with the teamsupport it as, or can avoid them till late-game and still be successful. Unfortunately, I don't see the meta adapting to Sneasel anytime soon, and it's worth it imo to put it back in BL.

- Wait it out - Sets: Swords Dance, Stealth Rock - Checks: , , , , , (Focus Blast) | , , (Body Press), , , , , (Eviolite + Drain Punch),
What changed with DLC2 that could make Pawniard less broken? In general, there's a handful of defensive checks and more faster attackers with super effective coverage that can stomach a Sucker Punch and 1HKO. Previously, the most common offensive attackers like Galarian Mr. Mime and Haunter couldn't check it, but now there are Eviolite attackers like Combusken, Electabuzz, Thwackey, and Magmar that can stomach a +2 Sucker Punch and revenge kill if need be. More defensive checks like Gabite, Marshtomp, and Larion (baring no Brick Break) work as well. It's totally a tough call on Pawniard, as it shares a lot of the same broken aspects as Sneasel, but to me it's too early to tell for sure. I think adaptions can work to pressure it better this time around, and the meta has a lot of room to be explored. So again, I'm not adamant in saying it's not broken, because it totally has everything it needs to be overwhelming, but it isn't as obvious after Day 1 as Sneasel is.

- Wait it out - Sets: Bulk Up, Defog, Florb - Checks: , , , , , , , , | , ,
The offensive upgrade to Machoke, Gurdurr does a lot for the meta right now as a bulky offensive glue to counter Pawniard and check Sneasel. This time around, Gurdurr checks include more offensive mons like Kadabra and potential stallbreaker Ivysaur sets (ala ZU), as well as old favorites like Haunter and Rufflet. More over, defensive variants of Golabt, Tangela, Charjabug, and g-cors still work as decent Knock Off sponges that can take Gurdurr's boosted hits and deal with it in one way or the other. Nicher options in the meta like Koffing and Gloom could come out too as checks, but of course have their own downsides. All the potential of unhealthiness is there right now for Gurdurr, but it isn't immediate. If it chooses to have coverage for Faires or Flyings, then it'll be easier to check with other mons. All in all, the power level increased drastically with the unbans and DLC2 to the point that I think Gurdurr fits with the rest of the bunch rather than breaking the mold.

I like a lot of the meta rn and it's fun to see some of NFE's top threats and staples from last gen return. It's great to have more Defog options and Knock Off switch-ins, and I think the roles of the meta are the most fleshed out and variable as they've ever been. On that note, was there anything that I missed that should have been addressed with these three? Stallbreaker Golbat sets could be super dangerous, but are somewhat surprised with the popularity of Sneasel and Pawn in the meta, as well as the use of strong coverage against Poison- and Flying-types already existing in the meta. Rufflet is another unban worth looking at for sure, but also has issues with more Steel-types like Metang and Larion discouraging Brave Bird spam on CB sets, and a ton of fast pressure from Electabuzz and Galarian Mr. Mime for Sub Bulk Up sets. Regardless, anything can happen and I'm just trying to get the ball rollin for some discussion :)

 

[Jett]

Hey frens, the SS NFE Council has unanimously agreed to quickban Sneasel. (Tagging The Immortal to implement)

Since its unbanning, Sneasel has proven itself far too strong of an offensive powerhouse for the rest of the metagame to handle. Its Choice Band set is extremely difficult to switch into due to combination of its insane Attack stat and excellent STAB moves in Triple Axel and Knock Off which are two absurdly strong attacks which hit the entire metagame. It can also trade off some immediate power by utilising a Swords Dance set with Heavy-Duty Boots, which has the added bonus of being able to switch moves which makes it nearly impossible for defensive cores to handle once it has a boost. Arguably, the best way to deal with Sneasel's non-Heavy-Duty Boots sets, are with entry hazards, but hazard removal is better than ever with Pokemon like Gurdurr and Golbat back in NFE. Despite its low defensive and poor defensive typing, Sneasel is extremely difficult to revenge kill due to being the fastest Pokemon in the metagame. It is only really pressured offensively by the few viable Scarf users or Pokemon with priority moves such as Mach Punch Gurdurr and Extreme Speed Pikachu, although Sneasel can still KO some of these Pokemon if they are weakened with its Ice Shard. Overall the council feels that there isn’t sufficient counterplay for Sneasel to be kept in NFE and have decided to send it back to NFE Ubers.

Going forward, for the next few weeks, you can expect the Council to have a quickban vote every Sunday with the Pokemon being voted on being announced in a post in this thread, in advance. Currently the planned Pokemon to be voted on will be Golbat and all the recent unbans (apart from Sneasel since it's being banned now). We hope this will allow the community some time to provide some feedback to help the council decide whether to quickban these Pokemon or not.

Also keep your eyes peeled for an upcoming NFE forum tour coming soon!!

 

[Miyami~~~]

First impressions on the unbans/Golbat:

set

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 172 SpA / 84 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Knock Off
- Surf / Volt Switch

I think this is the optimal set for Pikachu right now, and I'm not even all that sure it needs a STAB move to function since FakeSpeed is its main issue and you want a way to cripple grounds and other switchins as opposed to just getting blocked. Speed's enough to outrun Lampent while still being able to 2HKO Evio Pilo with surf. Otherwise, just the rest into attack to hit really really hard.

We still don't have adequate defensive counterplay to this. New grounds are nice to make it think twice before Volt Switching but it's perfectly capable of knocking them and switching out, and because none of our good ground types have recovery, you can just chip them over time with knock/surf until they eventually get into KO range. FakeSpeed is still insane and forces out so much, as we know, and revenging it isn't as simple as "put something in that's faster or has priority" thanks to Espeed's +2 priority. If your RKer ever gets into espeed range, it just loses, and then you probably lose too. It also has a ton of opportunities to get in and cause havoc due to the general offensive pace of the meta, since it forces out a lot of the top threats by itself. This is the pokemon I'm most comfortable with banning right now, I think it is the most broken of the unbans.

sets

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin / Nasty Plot
- Freeze-Dry
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

This is probably the basic Mime set that you'll see most often, with the first move depending on team support largely. You could theoretically run NP Spin but giving up Focus Blast seems really inadvisable since then you're walled by every steel type ever. Shadow Ball's also an option but it's really hard to want to give up any of the moves here.

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Freeze-Dry
- Focus Blast
- Trick

This set probably isn't as good since a lot of the draw to Mime is its coverage, but Trick is broken in a meta with no absorbers where everything wants eviolite so /shrug. Scarf sounds funny if you want to become the fastest thing alive and get the drop on unsuspecting Electabuzzes. Specs Focus Blast does 2HKO both Ferro and SpD Klang, which is pretty nice.

It's easy to compare this to Kadabra, since they're both fast psychic types that hit hard and likely compete with eachother for a teamslot. Kadabra is noticeably faster, which doesn't really matter since only three pokemon outspeed it without a boost and it ties Linoone, Kadabra has a larger movepool and magic guard, which makes it noticeably more difficult to revenge kill without Pikachu since sash is the best Kadabra set right now. Mime, on the other hand, is more difficult to directly switch into thanks to having the perfect combination of STABs and Coverage to hit every usual Kadabra switchin for Super-effective damage. This doesn't mean it obliterates all the usual Kadabra checks, as Spd Ferro/Klang have enough bulk to avoid the 2HKO with Focus Blast if they haven't lost their eviolite, or avoid the OHKO from +2 Focus Blast. This isn't to say these are surefire answers, as with the proper team support (or running trick on mime, which is a one-shot deal but can work) it can break through them, but it does need that extra level of team support. I could see it being problematic but I think it's fine to leave it in the meta for a little longer, since I could also see the meta developing around it just fine. And another spinner is always nice, too.

set

Haunter @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam / Energy Ball
- Trick

This is still haunter's best set, since the draw to it is just hitting really really hard with its STAB moves. Energy Ball is a much more legit option now with the influx of grounds in the tier, letting you do stuff like this:

252 SpA Choice Specs Haunter Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Haunter Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Marshtomp: 324-384 (94.4 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Worth noting that Gleam's still a viable option to hit Pawniard on the switch, but most other ghost or poison resists hate Shadow Ball (Gabite), die to Energy Ball (most ground types not named Gabite), or are stuff Haunter has to settle for hitting neutrally and trying to wear down anyways (Ferro, Klang).

You could run something like LO Wisp/Hex/Sludge Wave/EBall or Gleam but that requires a lot more setup just for a slightly stronger hit on Klang/Ferro that doesn't even 2HKO anyways.

Same boat as Mime, it's extremely difficult to switch into and a lot of stuff you'd use to check it can only just barely do so and has to rely on clicking rest after a hit or two. The influx of ground types to dissuade sludge wave sort of helps, but they all hate taking moves that aren't sludge wave from it. I don't really feel the need to elaborate too much since it was banned a lot more recently than mime, but like Mime I feel like it could stay a little longer but still has a solid chance to be broken long-term.

set

Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

The nature basically depends on if you want to get ahead of stuff like Lampent or not, as Adamant outspeeds up to Jolly Piloswine anyways. SD is probably better, but Stealth Rock can work if you want to compress a Rocker here.

It's a physical attacker that gives zero fucks about the standard Gorsola set, which is already huge. Sure, Gorsola can run wisp for it but the opportunity cost of not running whirlpool is pretty big. STAB Knock Off is a pain to switch into, but we have enough things that do it and there's enough pokemon running around that can force it into sucker mindgames or just tank a sucker and kill it back. Mostly just echoing Ho3n here that it doesn't feel that overwhelming yet even if it looks that way on paper.

set

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- High Horsepower

While this isn't the only Gurdurr set, obviously, this is the one I've had the most success with currently. It's not a perfect Defogger, since it takes spikes damage, but if you really wanted you could run boots. I wouldn't recommend it though, since the main selling point of Gurdurr is its bulk. BU sets are decent but you're almost always going to have coverage issues and flame orb sets are done better by Machoke due to the higher speed. Maybe Taunt sets could be worthwhile?

I'm gonna be honest, Gurdurr feels fine and shouldn't be banned right now. Obviously, it's monstrously bulky and fairly strong, but it doesn't feel overly strong and the bulk is nice, to the point where it can 1v1 a lot of offensive pokemon from full health, it doesn't ever really feel overwhelming. It's nice as a stop-check that you can just throw in on something, but it gets worn down really quickly due to taking all forms of hazard damage and having no real recovery. There's a reason Machoke (the closest comparison to Gurdurr even if they play somewhat differently) started investing into speed instead of using its bulk to take hits. Bulk up sets have some merit, but Drain Punch is really weak as a STAB move and no matter what combination of moves you pick you're always walled by something. It's definitely not this huge threat to sweep or wallbreak that I was expecting, and stuff like GCors/Clef/Golbat/Mareanie/Tang nearly always feels like a safe switchin. It can't even DynamicPunch its way through its checks like Machoke can, so while it may just be placebo it feels easier to check since there's no danger of randomly dying to confusion. Maybe it'll be a problem in the future once the meta slows down but it just isn't one right now.

set

Ivysaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball

This isn't the only Ivysaur set but it's the only one that could even remotely be considered broken. Run on sun, click Growth, and attempt to profit.

So, Ivysaur might just be the unban I've seen the least of so far. While I kept hearing about its potential for the tier outside of sun, currently it seems like the only times people are really using Ivysaur is on sun teams, where it's obviously the star. However, I don't think currently you could make an argument for Ivysaur sun to be broken at all, and a lot of that is probably due to the meta right now being really offensive. Sun isn't special in that regard, and having to run a completely useless pokemon to enable it really isn't a good idea when every teamslot matters right now. Like Gurdurr, once the meta slows down I could see Ivysaur being an issue on sun, in which case the play is absolutely banning Ivysaur and not sun since it's pretty clear that the only remotely problematic thing about sun would be Ivysaur, but it sure isn't one now.

sets

Rufflet (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 72 SpD / 84 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Zero clue if the nature is right but I think I have the EVs right here. Aerial Ace could be an option here, I'm not too familiar with this particular Rufflet set.

Rufflet (M) @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Aerial Ace
- Close Combat
- U-turn

Rufflet could actually work as a scarfer if you can keep Rocks off the field, since it has a habit of dying quickly. Sub BU is still probably better but there's some merit to choice sets, too.

Probably the least broken of all the unbans we got right now. Sub BU sets up on Corsola, which is actually solid (I've experimented with Ice Beam Corsola for this, to mixed results) but it's pretty slow and thus is revenge killed really easily if it's not behind a sub. Choice sets I've barely seen but are still good in theory. The issue is mono-attack sets have to deal with stuff like Ebuzz or Lairon that just naturally resist Brave Bird even after a boost, and choice sets get worn down easily and have to make a read every time they come in, where the payoff isn't always as extreme as something like Haunter. Like all the others in this post below Haunter, it isn't really broken right now but could possibly be after a few ban waves.

sets

Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Speed is for Pikachu aiming to creep Lampent. You could always go higher if you want.

Golbat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain

You could conceivably put Eviolite on this, but I was running it on a screens team which sorta makes up the difference. Air Slash could be slotted in somewhere if you're really afraid of Choke/Gurdurr. Giga Drain 2HKOs Pilo, which is why I put it on there, but unless you have screens up you still have to be really careful around it. These definitely aren't the only Golbat sets, just the ones I've been using. Feel free to experiment!

Golbat isn't broken. I feel pretty confident that it's actually a really healthy addition to this tier, as it's the best Thwackey answer we have now while having enough bulk to handle the fighting types and can soft check Raboot in a pinch. It's also kept in check by the myriad of Electric and Psychic types running around, although I expect this to decrease over time given that Pikachu and Mr. Mime are probably meeting a banhammer. Offensive sets are fun, both of the offensive defog or nasty plot variety, but don't feel too broken. Maybe stallbreaker bat could be an issue but there isn't really any stall teams around to break. I'm not even that sure of a "later it'll be broken", it honestly just feels like a solid addition to the tier.

Overall, with Sneasel gone the metagame's a lot better, and still very offensive with a lot to have to cover, but hopefully a ban or two will help stabilize it.

tldr, I'm only really certain on a Pikachu ban with mixed-pro feelings on Mr. Mime and Haunter but would be willing a wait a week, nothing else really stands out to me at this time as being a problem.

 

[Jett]

SS NFE Post DLC 2 Quickban Vote #1

Hey frens, as previously mentioned, the council have voted on 8 Pokemon. At least 60% (3/5) was required in order to ban each Pokemon.

Votes

Individual votes and reasoning can be found in this spreadsheet.

Haunter and Pawniard have been banned from SS NFE. Tagging The Immortal to implement. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jett]

The council will be voting on Gurdurr , Mr. Mime-Galar, Pikachu , and Rufflet. We would appreciate any feedback on these Pokemon and we are willing to add more Pokemon to the slate if there is enough push from the community. The results of this vote will be announced on Sunday.

 

[hayedenn]

Hey, so I'm a bit newer to the NFE tier but I think I've played enough in my life and in NFE since DLC to get a good idea for the tier (also btw thanks Miyami~~~ lmao I know we've played like, a ridiculous amount of times in the past week but the ladder be how it is).

Suspect mons
Not really broken, I think it's definitely a good wall and obviously Knock Off is a very spammable move. I don't think there's really enough "data" to think this mon is broken yet. Worth keeping an eye on though.

Mime is so ridiculously good. It can outspeed and crush most offensive teams without good priority (and Pika/Thwackey can't really switch in on it so something has to die). Ice/Psychic/Fighting is amazing coverage and there aren't any good mons that can actually beat this defensively either. Ban-worthy for sure.

While Fakespeed is strong, Pikachu suffers from heavy 4MSS and is always missing some sort of necessary coverage to beat the opposing team. Go for Knock > Surf, get walled by Pilo. Go for Knock > GKnot, get walled by Marshtomp and Palpitoad. Go for Surf/GKnot/Volt Tackle > Knock, can't really spread the Knock around. If Volt is the only electric move, you get into tricky situations. Pikachu is definitely good, and it's existence can stress teambuilding, but it isn't really that great *yet*. Don't ban

This is literally fine. Do not ban

Dude this needs to go. Like yeah I'm probably overreacting but acro is ridiculously strong at +2. I wouldn't say quickban this but it's lookin kinda sus

Mons I really like right now
I haven't played with this too much but NP is very heat with Mareanie usage down. Can check thwackey, raboot, etc. while fairy/fire coverage is v nice.

Taunt evio Magmar is a pretty good "wallbreaker" that can bust defensive cores. Yeah yeah I get it like every bulky water switches in but this can stop clef/gorsola/ferro/golbat/vullaby so it's good in my book. Also specs is ridiculously strong

Ok ok hear me out, CB lairon is busted. At max speed you are outspeeding wartortle and like every other wall and head smash is just a busted move. This isn't obviously gonna be S tier stuff but I'm a fan

This goes on every team and every set is good. Not busted, but this has so much variety to where you can feign Scarf, HDB, and Band and really surprise some people if they guess your set wrong. CB is my favorite set just because you like 2hko everything but boots is hella good too.

Big fan of evio buzz but you can run anything on this mon and it will put in work. Boots, scarf, specs, etc. (is there any other set? lol)

Pretty good suicide lead that can 1v1 hattrem. Probably the best suicide lead tbh

 

[ojr]

The council will be voting on Gurdurr , Mr. Mime-Galar, Pikachu , and Rufflet. We would appreciate any feedback on these Pokemon and we are willing to add more Pokemon to the slate if there is enough push from the community. The results of this vote will be announced on Sunday.

I have played a fair amount of nfe recently so I'm gonna give my thoughts on the mons that will be voted on.

Gurdurr
I don't believe this guy is broken at all, I find gurdurr to be just a better version of machoke and we have enough counterplay with the great amount of fight checks in the tier: Clef, Golbat, G-Cors, Mareanie, Koffing etc. Furthermore we have a lot of metagame defining threats like the psychics, rufflet and more that offensively check it. So for me Gurdurr is totally not broken, Do Not Ban.

Mr Mime Galar
Very broken in my eyes, has very limited counterplay, mons that are faster than it (unboosted) are literally just Kadabra, which would need Sball, and Ebuzz which can eat a hit or 2 with evio but is obviously not a great check since it doesnt kill back. Besides that its very hard to wear down if its boots and evio can very easily get a nasty plot off. you would oftenly need to rely on priority from the likes of fakespeed pikachu and sucker punch raboot. scarfers generally suck in this tier (but that's maybe a post for a different day) so revenging it with those isnt gonna be easy either. While there are checks to mime-g with things like: sdef sball g-cors, metang and slowpoke I dont believe this is gonna cut it. sball from g-cors isnt doing that much to evio variants, metang lacks reliable recovery and slowpoke loses to freeze dry variants. To conclude: too fast, coverage is phenomenal and can always find a winpath vs "counterplay". BAN!

Pikachu
Pikachu is still broken. we gained some counterplay to it with gabite and marshtomp which are obviously great additions but just like before pikachu will wear them down during the game with like fake out chip, knock on the switch or a surf. just because of this I feel the need to add multiple pikachu checks on 1 team. I dont think I need to write much about this really, pikachu still does what it did before and it will espeed all your worn down mons lategame. Its not as broken as Mr Mime Galar but still broken enough for a ban for me, BAN!

Rufflet
Honestly haven't used it and havent seen it much yet. but that should say enough to be honest, its not in the ideal place right now with this metagame where we have Mime-g and Pika running around. Its not having enough opportunities to set up in my eyes and things like choice band are of course very strong but its not fast enough to be broken. For me Do Not Ban for now, this could change in the future depending on how the meta will shape out.

Then there is one final thing Id like to address with this vote and that is Golbat.

Golbat is currently I think still a healthy mon in the tier BUT if the council may end up banning Mr Mime Galar and Pikachu we have lost 2 excellent offensive checks to the bat. Obviously we still have other great mons left in the tier but Im afraid that Golbat will end up unhealthy. I think Super Fang variants are one of the more dangerous sets in the meta since our flying resists, dont have reliable recovery so most mons that are knocked off will be taking a decent chunk from brave bird, coupled with its great speed it might be very overwhelming for a lot of teams since it will slowly super fang your brave bird switch-ins down. While that 80 base attack might not seem much at first glance it will bite you in the ass if you dont have enough fast checks to it like Kadabra and Electabuzz. I know this might be a bit of a controversial one but this bat has great defenses, great speed and decent attack to show you why its probably one of the most metagame defining threats and maybe even more than that.

thats it from me for now
(people please play more nfe the tier is cool)

 

[Greybaum]

SS NFE Post DLC 2 Quickban Vote #2

Hey frens, the council have concluded voting on Gurdurr, Mr. Mime-Galar, Pikachu, and Rufflet. A majority of at least 60% (3/5) of the votes were required in order to ban each Pokemon.

Votes

Individual votes and reasoning can be found in this spreadsheet.

As a result, Gurdurr, Mr. Mime-Galar, Pikachu, and Rufflet all remain NFE.
With only one Ban vote being made out of a possible twenty, the NFE Council do not see merit in re-voting on the aforementioned Pokemon over the course of the next week. However, we do recognise that there has been some disagreement over the viability of Pikachu and Mr. Mime-Galar specifically, and we'd really like to hear from more of the community on these two Pokemon in particular as we discuss the potential of a Suspect Test down the line.

Also, please join me in welcoming xavgb to the NFE Council!

 

[hayedenn]

After playing a pretty decent amount this past month, here are some thoughts on the metagame. Overall, I do think everything is at least fairly balanced. Nothing has seemed crazy broken but there are some pretty big threats.

Mildly common mons I have thoughts on
Still a crazy mon, can threaten a ton of things. Not really ban-worthy or anything (yet) but really threatening to offense and stuff. Everyone should be running some sort of ground type tbh to check this and ebuzz
Sleep Powder Tang is a really good mon right now. It can force a ton of switches and spread knocks to everything. offensive tang is the definitive good set
Gurdurr is always good and it continues to be good. Drain + Knock is suuuuuch a good combo. I tried out some Flame Orb sets on TR and I'm also pretty favorable towards that set as CC + Knock + Facade w/ Guts is crazy good
Nuzzle is hella annoying. That is all
obv sash is good but LO is an underrated set tbh. Nothing switches in on it consistently outside of Ferro
There aren't many dark-types atm that are frequently used so Acid Armor + CM Duo can start getting boosts and sweep pretty easily.
Way2bulky4me
IK people like boots raboot but banded is crazy. Consistently good in every game
SpDef tort is a very very good spinner right now. Big fan of this
I haven't seen many Magmars lately but specs is still crazy and even taunt/evio sets are good. lava plume is the most frustrating move to face

Some more obscure mons I like rn
Specs porygon is still pretty underrated imo and can really create some havoc if given the chance. too bad it's slow
With how prominent TSpikes is, nidorino is a good offensive poison type that can remove them and set them itself
I know Trick Room is an iffy playstyle but it gets TSpikes + TR + Memento + Knock Off which is a pretty nice combo
It gets CM + Grassy Seed/Unburden combo + ridiculous coverage. not the most consistent mon but it's cute
yeah yeah spdef is ok but offensive? that's where it's at (i was playing around with specs on TR which was baller but i assume even an offensive evio set with scald/ice beam/flip turn/toxic(?) wouldn't be awful)
still a big fan of this. still gets swords dance + priority + good coverage. has a ridiculous defense stat

those are all the thoughts i really have from this past month

 

[Jett]

(Here is a cute gif hattrem sleeping because I felt this post lacked visual stimulation.)

Hello reader. For quite some time discussions about the metagame on this thread have gone dormant, so I thought I'd write a little something on it to hopefully spark some discussion again. I want to share my thoughts on the current metagame as a whole and whether there is anything worth suspecting at the moment, given that it has been around 2 months since the last quickban vote slate (I'm well aware the metagame has shifted in some ways in spite of that).

Before I continue with this post, I'd like to address the fact that this is purely my own opinion, and is not meant to be representative of the council's opinion as a whole (note: the council have yet to talk about potential suspects). That being said, I am personally still curious on whether the community deems anything to be problematic, and am willing to formally bring up any solid points made in this thread, in the form of a discussion with the council, if they get enough support. Additionally, if the council do end up discussing anything which is noteworthy, I'll be sure to make a follow-up post so that the community will have a chance to respond.

Quick Thoughts on the current metagame

I believe the metagame is in a pretty good spot at the moment, and have personally enjoyed playing NFE these past few months more than the rest of its existence in SS. Whilst the metagame is pretty top heavy (and will most likely remain that way due to the nature of how NFE mons interact), I feel that many different team archetypes have a place in the metagame and can find success relatively easily. Sun is very strong and probably the most reliable form of HO, but Dwebble HO teams are also good. Bulky offense and Balance builds are still extremely common, and still revolve around sturdy walls and strong pivots, as well as potent setup sweepers. Semi-stall is also good but I think more defensive teams can struggle slightly more than the offensive ones at the moment. Often NFE becomes sorta stale after a few months of no bans/no new Pokemon introduced by a DLC, but right now, there still feels like there is some room to experiment. I say some room because there are definitely some Pokemon which do push the boundaries of fun or healthy, which I'll address in a bit. The metagame is dominated by Pokemon which can fulfil multiple roles as role compression is extremely important, with the rise of more special attackers and wallbreakers, meaning defensive walls are more stretched out. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but what is certain is the metagame feels a lot more fast pace (apart from a few exceptions) due to the overall power creep.

Thoughts on potential suspects

So far I've briefly talked about how balanced the metagame feels, but I'm well aware that there have been a few discussions in the discord, about removing certain Pokemon (or unbanning in the case of Pawniard). From my understanding, I've gathered the Pokemon which I've seen some talk about their removal from or addition back into the metagame, and presented my thought below each of them. The Pokemon are listed in alphabetical order (except for Pawniard since I wanted to focus on suspects before resuspects for layout purposes).

Golbat
Golbat is arguably the best Pokemon in the metagame, or at the very least the most splashable. For the most part, I don't find Golbat overly troublesome, although I've realised many of my opponents have a tendency either rely super heavily on it, or have way too few Pokemon which can switch into it. My main gripes with Golbat would have to be in teambuilder. Golbats that run the combination of Taunt and Super Fang are very oppressive against balance and semi-stall teams, making it more difficult to pull off these archetypes. One of the biggest reasons I run a much faster Golbat is the ensure I can land a Taunt on them before they do the same to me, which is by no means an excellent answer, but to me isn't particularly healthy either. Now, I don't necessarily need to use faster Golbat sets, but Golbat almost mandates you run a Pokemon which are faster than it, in order to keep it in check. Whilst I'm on the topic on Golbat, a small side note I want to talk about is Defog users, and how I hate it when I have to run Defog on Golbat because it has so many better moves in its arsenal. The same is sort of true with a Pokemon which a lot of people seem to replace with Golbat, Vullaby. Moves like Roost and Defog lose a lot of momentum and very much suck to use. I think Vullaby's Dark-type can be invaluable for some teams as Psychic-types are extremely scary at the moment. Overall, I find Golbat super annoying to have to account for during teambuilding but for the time being I think it's not overbearing enough for me to want it remove, although a suspect on it could be interesting.

Mr. Mime-Galar
Mr. Mime-Galar is a very potent Special Attacker, regardless if its Nasty Plot 3 Attacks, some Choiced set or a more niche set. Its movepool makes it very difficult to switch into because it can use coverage moves to somewhat break past its supposed counters (Focus Blast for bulk Steels, Shadow Ball for bulky Psychics and Ghosts). That being said, I do feel as if Mr. Mime-Galar has slightly fallen off since the start of the Crown Tundra metagame, and I myself find that Kadabra is much more effective as a special Psychic Wallbreaker and Cleaner. Teams have adapted pretty well to Galarian Mr. Mime and give it very few opportunities to setup (although, it is very devastating if it does). More importantly, priority moves are so common that even if it is able to setup, it will get forced out again in the following turn, losing a lot of momentum. Ultimately, I think Mr. Mime-Galar should be left in the metagame, and isn't very high on the priority as something to be looked at.

Pikachu
Since the last ban, the Electric Mouse is still up to its same tricks, being an amazing mixed wallbreaker, pivot, and cleaner. Pikachu is very difficult to switch into and when preparing for it, I feel somewhat forced to bring a Ground-type or specially defensive Tangela as those Pokemon don't hard lose momentum when switching into Pikachu, since everything else gets worn down/is forced to recover or else it can no longer reliable switch into it. The overall speed tier of the metagame increasing does hurt Pikachu slightly, but more often than not, these Pokemon can be easily cleaned up with its FakeSpeed combination after a bit of chip. Pikachu isn't without its faults, as its extremely frail, making it difficult to reliably switch-in, and also gets worn down by hazards with how it is forced to pivot in and out in order to avoid being knocked out. Out of all the Pokemon in this list, Pikachu is probably the one I'd be most tempted to ban if it were to be suspected, just because of how limited counterplay options against it are, when compared with every other Pokemon, but even then I'm unsure if I'd vote ban.

Tangela
Tangela is probably the most interesting Pokemon on this list, as from a glance it just looks like a very well rounded Pokemon which is extremely versatile, in its spread and move choices. The main complaint I've heard about Tangela (as I understand) is how "unfun" and debatably unhealthy its ability to abuse Regenerator is. Tangela is extremely difficult to break past due to its amazing physical bulk, and respectable special bulk if invested into, but also has incredible Special Attack to abuse moves like Leaf Storm, especially when invested into (does this remind you of another Grass-type in the previous generation?). I agree that Tangela is one of the most obnoxious Pokemon to deal with but nothing past that, and I don't believe suspecting it would help the issues about how restrained the metagame feels to play at times. Maybe its because of use of status moves on Pokemon which you wouldn't typically expect to use them, that means I have never felt that Regenerator allows Tangela to have a vice grip on the metagame, but this obviously could be seen as unhealthy adaptation by some. I would be unwilling to ban Tangela at the moment if a suspect for it was called.
------------------
Pawniard
Lastly, Pawniard was also mentioned a couple of times as a Pokemon which should be allowed to rerurn to the metagame. As one of the two people, who voted Do Not Ban on the slate that Pawniard was banned, I'm still not totally opposed to a resuspect of this Pokemon, but would much rather it stay stay banned for the time being. Pawniard's influence on hazards alone is way too great for me to believe that its addition would have a positive effect on the metagame. Aside from hazards, its Swords Dance set would yet again mandate the usage of the few checks, which lack reliable recovery, to be brought every game, mainly Gurdurr and Machoke. We simply don't have the same tools that we had in the previous generation (mainly Monferno lol...) in order to reliably keep this Pokemon at bay.

Thanks for reading!!

 

[lepton]

pileo's post nfe open teamdump extravaganza (theres only 3)
(click on mons for pastes)


replay: vs tlenit (W)

this is definitely the build i like the most - i only used it vs tlenit because i built it after round 3. decided to build around future sight slowpoke + cb monke as a way to break balance. am running the sick tech of spdef drilbur but im also running way too much speed (i dont even remember what im creeping besides modest lamp), i will find a reasonable speed number some other time. driller sets rocks on hatt and eats everything from electabuzz. ferro is there for psychics and does ferro things, pika is there for revenging, knocking, and being a general nuisance. the real star of the show is super fast stallbreaker bat. 188 jolly outspeeds adamant boot, and also creeps other bats really hard.


replays: vs damflame (L) | vs jho (W)

probably the worst of the 3 teams, i wanted to build webs cause i love charja so i did. i actually think charja is pretty neat atm as it checks both gurdurr and monke, and webs are pretty impactful in some matchups. its also a fairly good pivot with volt and toxic even when webs arent useful. bulk up rufflet under webs is powerful, and the speed i run outspeeds kadabra after webs. offensive hattrem is great at keeping hazards off and nuzzle is another form of speed control. another mon i quite like right now is linoone-g, as fast taunt is really powerful, and it spreads knock pretty well too. wart and pilo are standard sets that are there for type coverage and hazards.


replays: vs tlenit (L) | vs fardin (W) | vs damflame (W) | vs jho (W)

the team i used in every set was this build around choice band fraxure that i orginally built for wcoom (ty tj for a few changes). i wanted to try cbfrax because its a great rkiller with first impression and if you click the right move it picks up a kill almost every time it comes in. rest of the team is fairly standard and boring however i would like to say that i think taunt boot is really good right now, in fact just taunt in general is incredible.

if ur wondering what team i used for the missing games, its a fairly standard sun team that professor tox passed me

to conclude, im honestly surprised i made it that far in open. even though its pretty disappointing to only get 3 grand slam points cause of a ff r4 and also to lose in semis in a game i think i could have won, i had fun and i hope to continue this success moving forward. s/o all the nfe homies you know who you are

 

[85percent]

Since NFE Open is over now (congratulations aesf!), and I don't plan on playing any NFE tournaments in the near future, I thought I'd just post some teams here. None of these are perfect, but they should be solid enough to have a fighting chance in most games. Especially the second one is somewhat weird to me. Usually I might change sets or spreads, but I never really exchange Pokemon on a team once it's finished. This team was an exception. It initially had Marshtomp, and a Wish Clefairy to give the Marshtomp enough longevity. Marshtomp failed to impress or even perform decently, so at the cost of a worse Fire and Surf / Grass Knot Pikachu MU, I decided to replace it with a Piloswine. I made that change quite late into NFE Open, so it hasn't been tested too much. If you like Marshtomp, feel free to put it back in there. The third team I built in Quarter Finals of Open, so it also lacks testing. The first one on the other hand has been used a lot, and has performed really well, despite some holes. (Maybe I'll bug tlenit for his replays if I remember to do so - Edit: No need to bug him, he already sent some of them - see below). Don't feel like explaining the teams, since they are pretty standard. Only thing I wanna say: Thief Koffing is a Cutie and has stolen around 20 Eviolites for tlenit.

(Click on sprites for importable)

The team (and little Koffing) in action!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nfe-542529
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1274061270-49w1j3guw7xwl8dyt91crhm6qwt0c6rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1271301377-vikyojiiq15ftn1nu8mi2abn85rvzvrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1265572943-uu0s3t8zjp9cpb5pseykmmot3wyvdlrpw

 

[hayedenn]

Because I’m unoriginal and because stresh is so cool, I decided to do a little rundown on HO in the current meta, which imo is a pretty decent playstyle right now, capable of breaking through some of the common cores in the NFE metagame and wreaking havoc.

Hyper Offense

As stresh touched on in his original post, there a couple of things HO is able to capitalize on effectively in the NFE metagame that other playstyles may struggle to do effectively

1. Hazards
   1. Hazards are by far the most important tool HO has at its disposal. With Eviolite being by far the most common item in NFE, it’s rare to see Pokemon with HDB. This, along with the absence of Leftovers, means that it’s much easier to get chip damage, compounding offensive pressure that you can apply throughout the match.
   2. You have three options for hazard setters in NFE:
      1. Suicide leads: There are a few options for suicide leads in NFE, including Dwebble, Krokorok, Amaura, and Whirlipede. The purpose of a suicide lead in NFE is to set hazards as quickly as possible and then proceed to spread Knock Off and other damage. The advantage many suicide leads have is that they often do not need to be supported by other members of your team. However, it’s much more difficult to set up hazards multiple times during a match and many common Defoggers and Rapid Spin users such as Gurdurr, Wartortle, and Magic Bounce users such as Hattrem have good matchups against these suicide leads.
      2. Offensive hazard setters: There are only a few offensive hazard setters in NFE, but they are very effective at not only putting hazards on the field but also pressuring common forms of hazard removal. Piloswine is able to set up Rocks and threaten out Golbat while Roselia can set up spikes and threaten out Gurdurr/Wartortle with Leaf Storm and incapacitate Golbat with Sleep Powder. While offensive hazard setters have an advantage in being able to apply more pressure throughout a match, they tend to suffer more against offensively-minded teams.
      3. Defensive hazard setters: Defensive hazard setters find a solid niche on HO teams focused on stacking hazards. When choosing a more defensive hazard setter, have a clear idea of what it is that you want to check. For example, I’ve used PhysDef Gabite to check Pikachu/Raboot, or Ferroseed as a general check to multiple threats while also being able to set up Spikes/Stealth Rocks. However, your hazard setter needs to be able to create enough offensive momentum on its own so that you don’t find yourself getting bogged down in a battle. Gabite is a good choice due to its fairly strong Earthquake and access to Roar and Toxic. Piloswine is also good (if you wanted to go more defensive) because of its already high defense stats and ability to threaten out common forms of hazard removal. Charjabug also ends up going in this category because it is the only good Sticky Web setter and access to Volt Switch.
2. Offensive pressure
   1. As stresh mention in their post a few months ago, one of the main ways HO improves upon BO is that its able to, through a combination of offensive Pokemon, find ways to consistently apply offensive pressure throughout a match. Whether this be through VoltTurn cores, type-spam cores, hazard stack, etc. HO is able to exploit its favorable matchups consistently and find ways to win. Usually, at least lmao
3. VoltTurn
   1. HO benefits massively from NFE’s plethora of Pokemon with access to U-Turn and Volt Switch. Whether you’re running a Thwackboot core, Pikabuzz core, Drakloak, Klang, Rufflet, or Ginoone, all of these are able to pivot continuously and give HO teams the offensive momentum needed to apply continuous pressure. Not only that but oftentimes all of these Pokemon have great synergy with each other as well. Pikachu and Electabuzz both wear down similar checks with Pika also having access to Knock Off, and Thwackey is able to spread Knock Off and check what often switches in on Raboot.

Leads I Like (credit to stresh for some of these sets)

set

Dwebble @ Eviolite / Mental Herb / Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge / Shell Smash
- Stealth Rock / Shell Smash
- Spikes / Shell Smash

Dwebble fits the role of an effective suicide lead. It has decent bulk with an Eviolite, two sets of hazards it can utilize, Shell Smash, Knock Off, and a good Rock-type STAB. Dwebble also has a favorable mansion against Hattrem, whether it be a combination of Knock/Edge or Knock/Shell Smash. While Taunt users can be problematic for Dwebble, you can pair it with a Mental Herb in order to get a guaranteed layer of hazards or a Shell Smash off. Custap is another item that, if Dwebble is brought down to low health, can help you get a final attack or hazard up.

set

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Roar / Stone Edge

Gabite is a solid defensive Stealth Rock setter, with solid offensive presence and good utility moves. Toxic lets Gabite poison common switch-ins such as Tangela, Thwackey, Piloswine, Corsola-Galar, and Marshtomp. Earthquake is the STAB move of choice, and even though it gets weakened by Grassy Terrain, it’s Gabite’s most effective form of attack. Roar is an effective way of phazing Golbat switchins and potential setup sweepers, and Stone Edge allows Gabite to hit Golbat (even if it is a bit weak).

set

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Scale Shot
- Outrage / Stone Edge / Iron Head / Fire Blast / Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Gabite is also capable of running an offensive Stealth Rock set. This set focuses more on Gabite’s above average attack stat and good STABs. Scale Shot increases Gabite’s Speed stat, outspeeding the entire unboosted metagame and Choice Scarf Lampent. Earthquake is Gabite’s most consistent STAB move, with the final slot going to an assortment of moves to fit your team. Outrage allows Gabite to hit neutral targets for more damage and without taking a defense drop, although it can be inconsistent with the multitude of Steel-types and Clefairy’s. Stone Edge hits Gabite, while Iron Head lets Gabite target Iron Head for consistent damage. Fire Blast can target Tangela (you will need to adjust the EVs to hit Tangela) and Toxic hits common defensive switch-ins.

set

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder / Synthesis / Toxic Spikes

Roselia is the best offensive Spikes user in the NFE metagame. Spikes hit the grounded metagame for more consistent damage (including Ferroseed, Metang, Wartortle, etc) while Toxic Spikes can be utilized to get more passive damage against defensive teams. Grass/Poison is a (generally) great STAB combination, hitting much of the tier for neutral damage. Sleep Powder hits Roselia’s most common switch-in, Golbat while Synthesis is able to give Roselia a consistent form of recovery. Giga Drain is a usable move over Leaf Storm that gives Roselia another form of healing, however the drop in power is very noticeable.

set

Charjabug @ Eviolite
Ability: Battery
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- Skitter Smack
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

Charjabug is the only viable Sticky Web user in the tier. It’s incredibly bulky with an Eviolite, taking even the strongest physical attacks. With Volt Switch, Charjabug is able to quickly gain momentum for your team after setting up a layer of webs. Skitter Smack lets Charjabug take on Hattrem while Toxic can hit ground-type switchins and other bulky mons.

set

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD*
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- High Horsepower
- Ice Shard

*You can also make your Piloswine as fast as you want if there are things you specifically want to outspeed, just know it can heavily decrease your ability to check things like Pikachu/Electabuzz. A SpDef set is also good if your team needs a check to Electabuzz, although I think Piloswine works best when it can deal heavy damage.

Piloswine is an incredibly effective offensive Stealth Rocks setter, being able to threaten Golbat, scare Tangela (to some degree), threaten other Pokemon out with priority, and do an assortment of other things I can’t think of off the top of my head. Icicle Spear lets Piloswine break through sashed Pokemon such as Kadabra and (occasionally) does more damage the Crash, while Crash has a more consistent damage output and sometimes flinches. HH > EQ avoids the Grassy Terrain damage decrease.

set

Metang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Toxic

Metang makes a solid lead due to it’s good typing and movepool. It’s niche lies in its ability to switch in consistently against Golbat and threaten it out with Zen Headbutt. Meteor Mash gives Metang a STAB move to use against opposing hazard setters such as Clefairy and Pilo (although please don’t stay in against Pilo lmao) and Toxic is able to help you wear down Corsola-Galar, Tangela, and setup sweepers that may switch in against you such as Wartortle. Meteor Mash can also help you break through Hattrem, with it occasionally giving you a 10% boost in attack.

set

Krokorok @ Eviolite / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Krokorok is not a favorite lead of mine, but it has a significant niche in being able to threaten out opposing Hattrem w/o Giga Drain. While physically defensive Krokork is another set you can use, I don’t find Krokorok gets many times to switch in (compared to Gabite, you can’t switch in on any U-Turn mons and Pika/Electabuzz are able to kill you with their coverage moves). Taunt does give you a decent enough MU against opposing leads however the most common ones can 1v1 you, such as Clef and Pilo. Krokork is decent, but I do think in most scenarios Gabite outclasses it.

set

Carkol @ Power Herb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Spikes
- Flamethrower
- Rapid Spin

Carkol holds a very special place in my heart, and I love it more than I probably should. What makes Carkol such an interesting hazard setter on hyper offensive teams is not only its access to Spikes, but also Rapid Spin and a very solid typing. Even without an Eviolite Carkol is able to pressure Golbat and switch into non-Super Fang sets multiple times throughout a match. Fire is also a very good offensive typing, threatening most defensive mons not named Wartortle and Marshtomp. Meteor Beam is the crux of this set, catching a lot of people off guard and boosting Carkol’s special attack, making Flamethrower even more threatening.

Other Leads That Exist

set

Drilbur @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

Drilbur is….an okay lead. Mold Breaker is very nice, meaning you’re able to set up on Hattrem. Drilbur also has a very good attack stat, meaning Earthquake is able to do decent enough damage to anything that switches in. However, you aren’t able to set up hazards if someone else leads with their own Rapid Spin user such as Wartortle. Along with that, once Drilbur dies, you don’t usually have a secondary way to avoid hazards getting up, meaning you can quickly get behind later in games if you can’t wallbreak early on. I think Rock Slide is a good secondary option over Toxic since it is everywhere, however I do like the utility of Toxic a lot. Depends on ye team

set

Koffing @ Eviolite
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Corrosive Gas
- Explosion

Fast Koffing is a really nifty offensive (?) toxic spikes setter. Because you’re fast, you can outspeed basic every slow hazard setter and also set TSpikes without fear of Hattrem. Corrosive Gas let’s you start wearing down whatever the opposing team sends in and Explosion is pretty self explanatory. Just, don’t be a fucking idiot when you use it.

set

Amaura @ Power Herb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard
- Meteor Beam
- Freeze-Dry

Amaura honestly isn’t a very good lead, but it does have a favorable MU against Tang/Mareanie/Bat cores and Meteor Beam is a funny move. It can also hit pretty hard which is always nice.

set

Whirlipede @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Spikes
- Endeavor
- Skitter Smack

Whirlipede exists. It’s ok but it’s never wowed me even though Endeavor is a funny move and you can 1v1 some Hattrem sets. I just don’t like having to wait for my opponent to kill me, I feel like you lose a lot of momentum that way.

set

Yamask @ Eviolite
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic Spikes
- Trick Room
- Memento
- Knock Off

set

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD*
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Steel Beam
- Psychic

*Since zong's SpA is already so low you could always just invest into def and forget about doing any damage

Both of these are the Trick Room leads I’ve used. Yamask is my favorite since TSpikes are a really solid hazard, it has access to Knock Off, and it’s hella bulky. Bronzor is nifty since it has Steel Beam but I feel like it always dies too soon.

Attackers/Cores I like

sets

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 68 SpA / 188 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

Electabuzz @ Choice Specs / Heavy-Duty Boots / Eviolite
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast / Toxic

Double electric is one of my favorite cores. Pikachu and Electabuzz complement each other very well, with both being incredibly strong attackers who are able to wear down each other's checks very effectively. With Knock Off, Pikachu can remove the items of Electabuzz's common switchins, making it easier later on for Electabuzz to come in and continue wallbreaking. I prefer Specs on Ebuzz, mainly because once opposing items have been removed it becomes ridiculously strong, however Eviolite and Boots are both solid choices as well

grassy seed sets

Thwackey @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 136 HP / 232 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics

Raboot @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Sucker Punch

boots & eviolite

Thwackey @ Eviolite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 136 HP / 232 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Raboot @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch

Raboot and Thwackey cores have become the core of many of my Hyper Offense teams, and for good reason too; they compliment each other so well. Grassy Seed sets have become widely used on many HO teams (just ask Ho3nConfirm3d) and while I prefer a more standard bootsboot + evio thwackey, both are great options. Grassy Seed Thwackey is able to threaten common Defog users and beat common checks such as Golbat, Vullaby, Ferroseed, etc. with SD + Acro while Raboot becomes a threatening SubBU sweeper once it activates Grassy Seed, with Libero making it a STAB move. Boots/Evio cores become a threatening VoltTurn core, with Thwackey also being able to serve as a light check for common threats to HO, such as Pikachu and Electabuzz due to its Eviolite while Raboot becomes a general wallbreaker and cleaner, however at times it can struggle to break past physically defensive walls.

set

Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 176 HP / 252 SpA / 80 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Substitute / Flip Turn / Aura Sphere

I really like Wartortle. Probably a little too much for my own good. It's incredibly bulky, Shell Smash is always a fun move to click, and Water-type STABs for the most part are really solid when combined with Ice Beam. Not only that, but you can really fine-tune your Wartortle sets to fit whatever team you're running. At some point in time, I've run all four of those moves in the last slot whenever, for example, I needed Wartortle to function more as a pivot with Flip Turn or be able to break past walls such as Ferroseed, or be a spinner. It's just incredibly versatile, and always a great pick.

set

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Draining Kiss
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Psychic

Togetic's niche is that it's one of the few mons that fits on HO that hard-checks Gudurr. With Nasty Plot, Togetic is also able to effectively act as a decent wallbreaker, passively recovering HP with Draining Kiss, effectively targeting poison-types such as Golbat and Koffing with Psychic, and breaking past steel-types with Flamethrower. I'm not sure if Fire Blast does THAT much more but I hate missing so....

Honorable Mentions:

Things I haven't really used but am sure are somewhat good

Honestly I just don't like using ghost-types on my HO teams. Yeah, they're useful, but Rapid Spinners honestly aren't that common and all of these Ghosts are frail af. Drakloak just doesn't seem to work for me (but I've seen others use it effectively), Gastly is frail af and can't really switch in unless something dies, and while I've used Lamp to decent effect, my first choice for a fire-type is almost always Raboot


I haven't avoided these because they're bad, they just haven't really been on my mind when building. There's no reason to believe Kadabra is a bad choice by any means, it can effectively use a revenge-killer set with your choice of Counter/Knock/T-Wave/Encore and it's Life Orb set is a busted wallbreaker. Gime can use Rapid Spin, Specs, NP, or even Scarf (lol) and perform it's role well. I think my main gripe with these two mons are their vulnerability to being revenge-killed, especially with Raboot, Thwackey, and Pika being so common. Kadabra dies to any physical attack when it isn't sashed and Gime needs its Eviolite to have any bulk at all and when it uses that it then takes 25% from rocks every switch-in. I'm sure someone else can make them work, just not me.

Teamdump (click on the sprites for Pokepaste links)
Favorite Teams

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276853592-1x4qctuhc6d2ub3ilykvre1e5ep777ppw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1285937641
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1282121863
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1272904010
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1266881125
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276885299-o1lmvyy4b2feelfm25lc4w2kj4m3xw3pw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276867672-v67eba944s3hr7shmkxn19sxy07k4t8pw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276950521-jq7qltrxnu4pmljx9uosmprhtti1o8wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276876414-9ve3luprq0qvauy2m4oniuws1upfnicpw

Other Teams

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276882857-sv2sq18z0bcvmkbexm2a2dm9k3m4ocjpw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1267615372-1j9h83a5cr9cf5l8szntk6i2e0qtzj0pw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1270084713-bnrh215tvszhn9h2j0boojp14gcsz2ypw

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276940758
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276944777-r5r6xzpdwkw6frcfb1n643m6czwiw0kpw

Trick Room Teams

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1276892997

Again, lots of credit to xavgb for much of the framework and the sets I used for this post, and I hope this was informative for some of you! Cheers

 

[Jett]

Council Minutes
​

It's been a minute, huh.

Metagame Discussion

The council has been focussing their discussions on potential suspects as the metagame has stabilised since the initial quickbans that occurred last November.

- Golbat has been a hot topic ever since the Crown Tundra released. While the council as a whole doesn't believe it is the most outright broken Pokemon in the metagame, some of us believe that it has a very unhealthy effect on teambuilding as it holds back many different sets which were commonly seen during the DLC 1 metagame, and has nearly single-handedly pushed several Pokemon (especially those which used to lie in the middling ranks of the VR) out of viability. The main set that the council deems as problematic is its Stallbreaker set which utilises both Taunt and Super Fang and is very difficult for more defensive archetypes to deal with, as well as being hard to make progress against for all playstyles.

- Pikachu continues to spark debate within the community and council after its initial ban and freeing. The main argument for a Pikachu suspect is that most of its answers can be worn down easily throughout a game. Physical is more commonly seen with FakeSpeed being difficult for faster Pokemon to deal with, while mixed lures in Ground-types with Grass Knot/Surf which would otherwise be solid answers it. Tangela is extremely common and remains an amazing counter to Pikachu as it is the only one that does not get worn down easily. Despite its frailty, Pikachu's ability to pivot can make it very difficult to maneuverer around and it is arguable that a Volt Switch absorber is a necessity on teams in order to keep it from running rampant.

- Tangela is something we've been discussing more recently as potentially unhealthy. Some of the council believe that it should be suspected first because of its amazing role compression with Regenerator providing obnoxious survivability for both its offensive and defensive sets just by switching in and out. Its physical bulk means it can act as a blanket check to physical attackers while still being able to abuse its utility moves such as Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Knock Off, and its potent STAB Leaf Storm. Tangela's offensive set may be seen as unhealthy due to its unrivalled role compression in a single set and with only a handful of Pokemon that do not mind switching into its STAB move and utility.

- and The council briefly talked about both of these Pokemon and unanimously agree that neither should be suspected for the time being. Galarian Mr. Mime is definitely a potent sweeper and wallbreaker, but is something which doesn't warrant a suspect. It has multiple clear weaknesses, such as 4MSS, difficulty to build with, lack of defensive utility, and weakness to Stealth Rock, which can all be exploited and make it far less splashable. For Pawniard we believe not enough has changed in the NFE metagame to handle such a threat. To quote Ho3n, "our meta is okay rn, but idt we need to have another borderline broken mon in the tier vs looking at the other threats atm", but we won't rule out looking at Pawniard once the metagame accommodates for it.

It's also worth noting that Greybaum and stresh were on the fence on whether a suspect should occur while Ho3n, Jett, and Marjane want a suspect to happen. Do not suspect anything is still a valid option and the council will side with what the community decides is the best course of action.

Below is a summary of the council's individual opinions of what suspects they wanted/would support and in order of personal preference (this is important to distinguish since council will happily support which ever Pokemon gets the most community approval for a suspect test):
Greybaum: > >
Ho3nConfirm3d: >
Jett: > >
Marjane: > >
stresh: >

Points of Discussion

• We'd love to hear your thoughts on Golbat, Pikachu, and Tangela; are they too overwhelming for NFE to handle and deserving of a suspect test?
• Aside from those three, are there any other Pokemon that are suspectworthy/need to be monitored in the near future?

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

While it wasn't the highest on everyone's list, Tangela actually never showed up on mine. I want to go into more explanation and say that I don't imagine Tangela as a broken / unhealthy threat largely due to its Achilles Heal: awful special bulk after it loses its Eviolite.

Knock Off sponges are integral to NFE team build, and this is one of the many roles Tangela fulfills on teams between its stallbreaker and wall sets. Beyond taking little from it, Tangela is pretty much the only consistent switch-in for Pikachu, as everything else is very likely to get worn down from Knock Off, Volt Switch, and other coverage. Tangela's great bulk, Regenerator recovery, and Volt Switch resistance combined with its multiple punishing coverage options allows it to punish Pikachu from staying in and using Knock Off. Very little beyond say Marshtomp can do anything similar, so this invaluable support will always come up when facing Pikachu. There's also other Knock Off users that Tang checks and is encouraged to switch into like Gurdurr and Thwackey, which again it's really the best at this job for these threats.


So while it's a great check relatively to physical attackers, they may still be doing their job by removing its Eviolite and making Tangela much more likely to succumb to Kadabra, Raboot, Electabuzz, and Koffing. With an Eviolite, the matchup is a lot trickier with these examples as Tangela can tank an attack usually and do something nasty back. Without it, it's a lot more pressured by those offensive attackers and their neteutral or super effective attacks. Koffing is unique in that Neutralizing Gas works great with pivots like Pikachu and Thwackey to keep Tangela low when it switches out, which it's usually forced to as it won't want to stay in and take a Sludge Bomb without its Eviolite. Technically Tang can still risk Sleep Powder if it has it, but if it stays in and tries for Knock into Leaf Storm then it's very unlikely for it to KO Koffing before it wakes up–if it switches out, great, Tang is very low. And this is all of course not mentioning special wallbreakers like Galarian Mr. Mime, Gastly, Lampent, Magmar, and sun teams from being able to OHKO Tang on their own. Setup sweepers like Wartortle, Morgrem, and Rufflet also setup sweepers that, once they boost, have no issue with Tangela


Defensive counterplay is decently varied. Options for counters centers mostly around Ferroseed and Vullaby, as they're the only walls able to tank hits and are immune to Sleep Powder and Stun Spore. Golbat is always appreciated and can afford to tank a Knock Off but status can be annoying for it so it's far from perfect. There's nicher options like Roselia and RestTalk Volt Switch Klang that work as well as counters but teams have moved away from including them; they're still viable if you wanted to explore different options though. Something like Mareanie can also work to remove its Eviolite earlier than expected and set Toxic Spikes to wear it down in the future. Toxic and Toxic Spikes are also countermeasures to prevent Tangela from switching in as freely as it often does. Ground-types like Marshtomp and Piloswine sometimes fit it to help out with Tangela and other phys walls.

Comparatively, it's much easier to pressure Tangela offensively than pack defensive checks for it. Even Vullaby hates losing its Eviolite and being worn down by Sludge Bomb Poison + Stealth Rock support, so it's not nearly as simple as throwing it on your team and telling yourself Tang won't be a problem now. It's totally deserving of S-rank but there's too much available in the VR that's able to adequately deal with it and not overtly hurt teambuilding. In some cases it actually may encourage the usage of nicher Pokemon like Combusken, Gastly, and Roselia, as well as validate already consistent mons or playstyles like Ferroseed and sun.

The other two are more pressing imo. Jett summed up how I feel about Pikachu and why I think its the main concern in NFE. Golbat has similar issues with Tangela in that it has the potential with sets like Substitute + Super Fang to have almost no defensive counterplay, and because it's significantly faster and specially bulkier than Tangela, it has even less offensive counterplay in comparison. There's some tradeoffs like Tangela handling Pikachu, SR, and pivoting better, but then Golbat is able to check Ivysaur, Raboot, and not be worn down by Toxic. Even Pikachu really ins't that great for handling Golbat when the bat is usually faster and 2HKOes with Brave Bird. I'm explaining all this about Golbat because really between it and Pikachu it's hard to say which is more broken and I'm starting to warm up with the idea that Golbat is more of an issue.

Regardless, I like the meta a lot rn. Future Sight Duosion is a set I finally got a round to using and it's been so much fun. I'm not sure if the meta needs a suspect or not but please let council and I know how you feel about these threats.

 

[hayedenn]

I’ve played competitive mons for honestly almost 7 years now (wew), on and off and NFE sure is…a tier that I have played lol. Look, I really do love a lot of the people in the tier and the metagame right now is in a really good spot where I think most everyone is happy with how it is going. But...there’s definitely been some issues I’ve seen over the past few months since I’ve joined that are particularly egregious and I think need to be addressed.

First off, the NFE room is dead af. I’m honestly not sure if I’ve seen a more dead room on PS for a tier but god damn. The room averages give or take 25-40 people at any given moment (being generous) and there is basically no chatter. Not only that, but the chatter isn’t even from randos. It’s mostly staff or people who are already active in NFE. It is very rare that any new person comes along and says anything or even joins the discord. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a new person in the discord since I joined a few months ago.

On that topic, the room tours are dead. Like, at least half are probably canceled because nobody joins, and do you know what the average is for people who’ve actually played the room tours this month? Three, out of the probably 100 automatic room tours that have occurred since February 1st most people have played in three. And on that point, the staff don’t even participate in the room tours outside of maybe two people (ho3n ily bb). If the room staff themselves dont even play on the ladder or join the room tours, what are they doing? Playing ZU like bitches :^) in tournaments maybe once every three months before they eventually lose in round two. Also, have you guys seen the NFE ladder? It’s basically a joke, nobody good plays on there and it takes probably 15-20 minutes to find a battle at any given time. The amount of times I've found any person of relevance on the NFE ladder? Maybe Ho3n/Rav/Oran/Marj every once in a while and that's it

Second, there are no community projects. What are we supposed to be doing in between tournaments? It isn't my responsibility as a room voice to be pushing for this stuff, and I honestly have no idea what the NFE staff does or is working on outside of talking in their secret council room and make the occasional metagame post. That’s actually a great question though, what is council doing? Literally no idea, since they communicate nothing with the rest of the tier. The tier has been dead since I’ve joined and the only communication from them has basically been “yeah we’re PLANNING on suspecting tang, pika, and bat.” Yeah you wrote a 3 paragraph post after months of talking about a suspect and you're just saying it’s a POSSIBILITY. You really couldn’t make a decision in that time period? What tf have you been doing? How long does it take to work on fixing this tier, especially since it's been in a steady decline since gen 8? You can't keep complaining about how NFE was killed off after it was made an OM when it happened forever ago.

Similarly, NFE is cliquey af. The social interactions with people are incredibly bizarre. I’ve never actually felt like anyone in NFE has ever reached out to me or started a conversation with me about anything until today lol. Not only that but I’ve had MULTIPLE players tell me that most of the conversation about NFE and such doesn’t even happen in the NFE server, it happens in private chats and NFEPL servers. What a nice way to get the community involved, write one post a month and talk in private chats.

Also, did you guys know there’s an NFE Old Gens? I barely knew it existed and you wouldn’t even know because nothing ever happens with it! People on the council have even admitted that it's in shambles (it's been in shambles for months btw). ORAS can’t even decide on what they want to do (it’s been this way FOREVER AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED). SBPC resigned forever ago and BW NFE still has no leadership and DPP hasn’t even decided on a banlist. How hard is this to do? You remember this shitshow? Everyone hated it and ORAS NFE has been dead since. Sad

Also, when is NFE UU happening? You keep talking about it and there’s actual interest in it yet it still hasn’t happened yet. Hurry up, and show some interest in your own tier before it's dead for good. We're pretty close to that point already.

Some Suggestions:

1. Proper tour schedule (should be happening soon hopefully) would be awesome
2. More interesting tours. Maybe an NFE WC, budget tour, rigged tour, draft tour, mix of other OMs into NFE, NFE UU, etc. Because of the non usage based nature of nfe it is inherently somewhat stale, so projects that incentivise expanding the horizon a bit probably make sense (maybe a bit down the line)
3. Any sort of events, competitions, etc that require little commitment (pls no 2 month team tour).
4. Side projects would be good, things to engage people outside of tournaments. More posts from everyone is also good, let's get that activity going
5. Anything to retain players. Honestly I don't know what this really looks like in practice but we definitely haven't been doing that!
6. Similar to point 2, more small tours. Anything that can increase Discord and the PS room's activity would be good.
7. I mentioned to Jett a possible Old Gens NFE leaderboard. Every week host a different Old Gens tournament in the NFE room and add those points to a leaderboard and such. Make it a competition
8. More participation from people on the ladder. It can't improve unless you do something about it
9. Have staff be more active in the room, play hangman or something idk anything to give it character
10. Just like....some interest in the tier? Progress? Advocating the tier to OM leadership?

I'm kind of brain dead and I couldn't think of any more off the top of my head but I'm sure others have some good ideas. Anyways, end of post, y'all have a good day I need to do homework

 

[hayedenn]

OP adapted from Roxiee UU Research Week thread | Hosted by professor tox with the help of ojr :^)

Welcome to the first edition of NFE Research Week!

tl;dr description:

• This will be run in two week cycles, starting Sunday, going until the Friday of the week after where we enter a two day voting period to pick that week's winner!
• We'll provide two Pokemon for you to research on Sunday (today I'm releasing this early); usually, one will be a frequently used Pokemon with a new set, while the other is an uncommon Pokemon.
• Anyone interested in testing them out creates a team using these mons
• After testing and playing games, players discuss their thoughts about the Pokemon. Sharing the the sets you used on the research Pokemon or the team(s) you used is required!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, typing and movepool and think something up!
• In return, we will try to explain why each Pokemon/set is chosen and suggest ways to make it succeed.
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period, however, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, and perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets we choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks!
• Please PM us any suggestions, complaints, or other feedback, and we will be happy to talk discuss it.
• My Discord is @hope#0678 you're also welcome to VM / PM me on Smogon.

A few things to clarify:

• You can sign up any time in the week, but the week will always end on the Friday of the second week
• Early period means the first week of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymonning to a minimum after this period.
• The late period refers to the last week of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Discussion is mandatory in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week.
• You must make one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame. If you don't you will be disqualified from winning this week.
• Post the team you used this mon in, describing it's role and whether it succeeded or not. No team means no entry!
• Please post about your experiences regardless of whether you think you will win, we appreciate it!
• Post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write about the role of a Pokemon, but watching it in battle can be even more informative.
• If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them!
• You are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in the NFE chat on Pokemon Showdown, in the official NFE Discord, and in the Resource Thread and Metagame Discussion Threads.

The timeline: For example, (outside of this week) I will post the new thread Sunday night. The first week will be you all choosing your mons, testing them and seeing how they work, and general discussion. The next week will be you all posting your teams, discussing your opinions, how they've worked, etc. That Thursday night, discussion will close and we will all vote for our favorite teams posted that week. Two days after that, on Sunday voting will close and I will post the next two mons.

Ex. Thread posted Sunday 2/28. First week of testing/general discussion is 2/28 until 3/6. Team posting, theorymonning, pro/cons is from 3/7-3/11. Posting stops and voting starts Friday 3/12-3/14 where that cycle is then ended and new one starts Sunday night 3/14

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post a team! Teams are mandatory to be entered in the competition
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has received the most votes on their sets/teams at the end of the week
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame the best reward one can receive!

Sample Discussion Template

Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

Hall of Fame
Cycle One - Setup Clefairy and Natu
won by professor tox won by Jett
Best Team by ojr

Cycle Two - Machoke and Seadra
won by Jett won by Marjane
Best Team(s) by Jett
Marjane

Cycle Three - Dartrix and Choice Specs Klang
won by Jett won by Greybaum
Best Team(s) by Jett
Greybaum

Cycle Four - Combusken and Non-BU Rufflet
won by S1nn0hC0nfirm3d won by Jett
Best Team by Jett
​

 

[hayedenn]

Hey all, so for the first week we have.....

Natu! Natu has generally been pretty outclassed by Hattrem this entire DLC2 (and maybe before then, idk I didn't play then). However, it has a niche in having access to Roost and Teleport/U-Turn. This cycle it'll be your job to decide whether this little birdy can work or if it has go back to the bin. Sad!

example set

Natu @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Teleport
- Roost
- Toxic
- Psychic / Night Shade

We'll also be researching Clefairy! Clefairy is known for its strong role as a Stealth Rock Setter and Wish Passer. However, we want to know if it has any niche as a set-up sweeper. So, for this week, your Clefairy set if using an Eviolite must include either Calm Mind or Cosmic Power. If not using an Eviolite, you can use any moves you want.

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the most votes by the time the challenge ends
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame :]

TL;DR: Make a team, post about it and your experiences with the mon, whether you like it or not and think it's viable w/ some replays to justify your point, and we'll vote for our favorite teams between 3/12-3/14

edit: however if you are using natu you can use regular clef, u just wont be getting brownie points for both

Sample Discussion Template

Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

 

[Greybaum]

Hey professor tox, thanks for the post. I appreciate the feedback and I hope I'm able to answer some of your questions and complaints. I would also like to apologise for the extended period of time it took to respond to this post as I had to get some more specific information on things like NFE UU and Old Gens that I don't typically delve into.

First off, the NFE room is dead af. I’m honestly not sure if I’ve seen a more dead room on PS for a tier but god damn. The room averages give or take 25-40 people at any given moment (being generous) and there is basically no chatter. Not only that, but the chatter isn’t even from randos. It’s mostly staff or people who are already active in NFE. It is very rare that any new person comes along and says anything or even joins the discord. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a new person in the discord since I joined a few months ago.

While I don't want to dismiss this entirely, I don't think there's anything that can be done here short-term; NFE is a niche OM with a close-knit community and there's no way to have the chat buzzing and active in it's current state. An empty chat is a natural consequence of having a small playerbase. This is something that can be 'fixed' as more users start to play NFE which is something that will (hopefully) come as a byproduct of us tackling the other issues you noted later on in your post.
Mind you, we've definitely considered specifically targeting room activity with ideas being thrown around, one such idea being daily 'spotlights' on Pokemon to encourage discussion, but users have unofficially already tried this in the past with the !dt command. You know yourself that any successful attempt at generating conversation typically dies after half an hour at most. We're open as always to suggestions, but as it stands the general sentiment is that there's not much merit in specifically targeting room activity at this time but instead letting it naturally improve as things develop.

On that topic, the room tours are dead. Like, at least half are probably canceled because nobody joins, and do you know what the average is for people who’ve actually played the room tours this month? Three, out of the probably 100 automatic room tours that have occurred since February 1st most people have played in three. And on that point, the staff don’t even participate in the room tours outside of maybe two people (ho3n ily bb). If the room staff themselves dont even play on the ladder or join the room tours, what are they doing? Playing ZU like bitches :^) in tournaments maybe once every three months before they eventually lose in round two. Also, have you guys seen the NFE ladder? It’s basically a joke, nobody good plays on there and it takes probably 15-20 minutes to find a battle at any given time. The amount of times I've found any person of relevance on the NFE ladder? Maybe Ho3n/Rav/Oran/Marj every once in a while and that's it

As with the above paragraph, I think this is an expected consequence of having a small playerbase. No (or at least very few) tiers offer any reward for playing in roomtours because it's reward enough to have an easy method to get games in a low-commitment tournament format. Speaking of which, 4 roomtours a day is a bit much for the number of players we have. We'll be lowering the number of daily tours shortly which will hopefully push people towards joining the remaining ones in larger numbers instead of having them spread out across a day. We also have plans to run more frequent oldgen and custom tours over weekends etc. but this needs more time to sort out because we need to liaise with Felucia to ask her to code some stuff in to support it.
With regards to staff participation, please understand that numbers don't mean everything. I've personally played ladder off an on recently and never encountered you (nor anyone else you mentioned), and there have been frequent times (including earlier today when the direct started) where I joined a roomtour but then left it just before it started because there was only one other signup. Yes people have other committments so obviously we'll play other tiers as well (stresh is on like 4 other councils for example) but I promise we do play the tier more often than just whenever a forum tour comes out.
Finally, concerning the ladder, this is once again just an issue with user activity across the board. We occasionally get spikes of activity which in my experience comes from well-mannered groups of people testing for off-site NFE tours, hence why it's usually filled by players using Leftovers and Assault Vest (with clauses like Item Clause being involved) but I can't think of a good way to improve activity here without instead focusing on increasing the playerbase and letting it happen naturally. We could do a ladder tour (or suspect test) but this would only increase activity short-term and not give us room to maintain those numbers.

Second, there are no community projects. What are we supposed to be doing in between tournaments? It isn't my responsibility as a room voice to be pushing for this stuff, and I honestly have no idea what the NFE staff does or is working on outside of talking in their secret council room and make the occasional metagame post. That’s actually a great question though, what is council doing? Literally no idea, since they communicate nothing with the rest of the tier. The tier has been dead since I’ve joined and the only communication from them has basically been “yeah we’re PLANNING on suspecting tang, pika, and bat.” Yeah you wrote a 3 paragraph post after months of talking about a suspect and you're just saying it’s a POSSIBILITY. You really couldn’t make a decision in that time period? What tf have you been doing? How long does it take to work on fixing this tier, especially since it's been in a steady decline since gen 8? You can't keep complaining about how NFE was killed off after it was made an OM when it happened forever ago.

This paragraph is extremely harsh and makes many accusations which I don't believe are particularly fair. We are definitely going to have more tournaments and a proper schedule which Jett has kindly sorted out and I'll post below but the tl;dr is we've tentatively planned a tour for every month, starting with a No-Titans tour (name potentially WIP) ready to go with signups live later today/tomorrow (provided we get approval). Secondly, with regards to the suspect and the metagame post, I very much disagree here. We've been saying that we do not want bans to influence the flow of NFE Open and we wanted to wait until afterwards. This was made clear early on. While I do admit it took us a while to get out the recent Minutes post, council should NEVER be the sole decider on what Pokemon gets suspected. While I agree that there's been a lack of incentive to play NFE recently for the majority of the playerbase (having been knocked out of NFE Open) I do think it's unfair to suggest a suspect should have happened by now. We've been waiting for people to give input as to what should be suspected, if anything should be, and unless I'm misinterpreting your post you're now telling us we shouldn't have given you that opportunity? If there are actual issues with the metagame that need to be fixed, please state them. The metagame is in a solid place right now, at least in my opinion and if I personally pushed for a suspect test it'd be because the community wanted one. This is not an issue with transparency, there simply hasn't been anything worth saying. We've put across our thoughts on the meta and I beg you and everyone else reading to do the same.
As for community projects, I agree with you, we could and should do more, and NFE Research Week is something I've personally been advocating for recently (I think it's a solid way to inspire consistent ladder activity) and I'm personally thankful to both you and ojr for getting it started. I hope we have some similar projects starting up in the future.

Similarly, NFE is cliquey af. The social interactions with people are incredibly bizarre. I’ve never actually felt like anyone in NFE has ever reached out to me or started a conversation with me about anything until today lol. Not only that but I’ve had MULTIPLE players tell me that most of the conversation about NFE and such doesn’t even happen in the NFE server, it happens in private chats and NFEPL servers. What a nice way to get the community involved, write one post a month and talk in private chats.

I think it's important to keep in mind that NFE spawned from a clique. In addition, being a private room means it's incredibly hard to get new players without word of mouth; that is to say NFE is going to be "cliquey" to some extent because a lot of people are friends before they join. This is obviously something we're aiming to move away from, but also something that to an extent happens in every tier. That said, you're clearly targeting this paragraph at the supposed clique where the majority of council members reside and to be blunt you've been fed misinformation. The private NFEPL discord you're referring to has had virtually 0 talk about NFE for a month and all of it was planning teams for NFE Open as we wanted to create a test group among ourselves to get us further in the tour. This is completely normal in any metagame. I do agree more talk should happen in the NFE Discord, and in the private room on Showdown, but as already covered in this post it's rare that this results in any followup conversation.
I'm unsure what you mean by "reach out and start a conversation"; I can only speak for myself here, but I rarely DM anyone on Discord without a good reason, and unless I'm misunderstanding I think this in particular is just a weird thing to expect to get from NFE. You've initiated conversation with me a few times especially recently and I appreciate that, but speaking personally I'm just not the kind of guy who reciprocates that except with close friends, although I'll certainly respond to people who message me.

Also, did you guys know there’s an NFE Old Gens? I barely knew it existed and you wouldn’t even know because nothing ever happens with it! People on the council have even admitted that it's in shambles (it's been in shambles for months btw). ORAS can’t even decide on what they want to do (it’s been this way FOREVER AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED). SBPC resigned forever ago and BW NFE still has no leadership and DPP hasn’t even decided on a banlist. How hard is this to do? You remember this shitshow? Everyone hated it and ORAS NFE has been dead since. Sad

Also, when is NFE UU happening? You keep talking about it and there’s actual interest in it yet it still hasn’t happened yet. Hurry up, and show some interest in your own tier before it's dead for good. We're pretty close to that point already.

I'm going to entirely quote Jett for this because she's far more informed on the state of oldgens than I am.

"Again, I have barely any interest in half of these Old Gens, it was forced upon with the departure of SB, making me a sort of temporary leader i suppose, but each respective council should be run by their respective leaders and communicate with me for tours and whatnot since nobody really wants to lead the section. I cannot decided what ORAS wants to do but I can ask them for sure and make a public post stating what direction they're going with so the whole community is clear; BW is in a pretty good place at the moment and only needs a council to update VR occasionally/keep the metagame as is which is pretty easy to do, a specific leader isn't as necessary for that. Lastly with DPP I think you misunderstood but the banlist needs revaluating because of how awkward it is. I will take the blame for this since I'm on it but I definitely will try to work on this with anybody who is still interested since most of the DPP council has left now."

I'm glad you linked Old Gens to UU here because it's a similar situation. Some members of Council might want to run UU (I personally don't) but, like LC UU, it's not something you should expect the council to host themselves. It needs more formalising and an actual hosting platform on the forums which may have to end up on a separate thread (provided OM leaders agreee). I believe Jett plans to discuss this with individual users who have expressed interest in NFE UU prior but there's been no information on NFE UU up to this point because it's not something we run, to be blunt.

Some Suggestions:

Proper tour schedule (should be happening soon hopefully) would be awesome
More interesting tours. Maybe an NFE WC, budget tour, rigged tour, draft tour, mix of other OMs into NFE, NFE UU, etc. Because of the non usage based nature of nfe it is inherently somewhat stale, so projects that incentivise expanding the horizon a bit probably make sense (maybe a bit down the line)
Any sort of events, competitions, etc that require little commitment (pls no 2 month team tour).
Side projects would be good, things to engage people outside of tournaments. More posts from everyone is also good, let's get that activity going
Anything to retain players. Honestly I don't know what this really looks like in practice but we definitely haven't been doing that!
Similar to point 2, more small tours. Anything that can increase Discord and the PS room's activity would be good.
I mentioned to Jett a possible Old Gens NFE leaderboard. Every week host a different Old Gens tournament in the NFE room and add those points to a leaderboard and such. Make it a competition
More participation from people on the ladder. It can't improve unless you do something about it
Have staff be more active in the room, play hangman or something idk anything to give it character
Just like....some interest in the tier? Progress? Advocating the tier to OM leadership?

I'm kind of brain dead and I couldn't think of any more off the top of my head but I'm sure others have some good ideas. Anyways, end of post, y'all have a good day I need to do homework

These have all be considered and are being discussed with respective staff/council. We've already started to take action on some of these, and I'm sure you're tired of hearing the same "it will happen soon" spiel but I hope our actions speak for themselves over the next days, weeks, and months. I think some of these are much harder to tackle, with the limitations we have within OMs and some being a lot more out of our control than others, but we'll definitely have more events on all platforms and tours which is a good start to help push NFE back onto the right tracks. Thank you for your feedback and expect progress on this really soon.

Now for the fun stuff. None of this is concrete, mind you, and some stuff remains private information for... reasons I can't get into just yet, but if you know then you know.
With that said, here's the draft Jett's come up with for future NFE tours over the upcoming months:

Tour Schedule Draft
- February 28th : No Titans Tour
- Mid-March: Pending / TBA
- May 14: OMPL + OMFL
- July 4th: NFEPL
- August 30: Tour placeholder
- September 26: OM Swiss
- October 8th: OMWC
- January: NFE Open
- February 20: Oldgen Tour

Thanks for reading, and if anyone else has any concerns please don't hesitate to reach out.

 

[Jett]

For the first cycle, I decided to use Natu over Clefairy for a couple reasons; the first being I haven't used it since DLC 1, and the second being setup Clefairy is far more linear in how it performs (if opponent has a Taunt Pokemon and a decent wallbreaker, Clefairy will struggle to ever clean games, and would have been much better off as a utility set). With that being said I'm rather disappointed with the results that I've gathered.

<- team link

Basically wanted to use braindead PikaBoot with Natu since Magic Bounce is generally good with these sorts of teams, and Gurdurr was my Defog User of choice since it can beat Piloswine which threatens Natu out. Last two slots, I honestly wasn't too fussed but needed rocks so picked Specially Defensive Piloswine and went with Golbat cause I kept running into Sun teams, but this team is not optimised by any means. In some of the earlier replays I had Tangela instead. I'm sure there is a better Pokemon to replace Golbat but many teams still don't prepare well enough for its Taunt + Super Fang set (but then again it does beat half the metagame lmao)

set

Natu @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Roost
- Toxic / Feather Dance
- Psychic / Night Shade

Alright so let's start with the pros or more so what distinguishes it from Hattrem.
- Has Teleport which is decent on more pivot based teams or teams with frail glasscannons
- Has Roost
- Has Future Sight but I didn't use it because it's 4MSS is already pretty bad

It's basically downhill from here, Natu suffered a lot from DLC 2 and I do believe the team i was using would be much better with Hattrem instead despite the additional pivoting it sometimes provided. Many of my guys Natu failed to do anything relevant and often ended up as deathfodder. Its Magic Bounce was only ever used to good effect in the depths of low ladder where people don't know what Magic Bounce does.

Hattrem is better because:
- Bulkier in general
- Better utility in Healing Wish and Nuzzle
- Stronger offensively and can make better use of its coverage moves
- Doesn't mind not having Roost because RestTalk is a valid set
- Not weak to Stealth Rock
- Better matchup into many of the metagame's entry hazard users
- Is cuter

I want to focus on the second to last point here, Natu fails to beat Piloswine and Shadow Ball Corsola, which are the two most common Stealth Rock whereas Hattrem can beat both with its coverage in Giga Drain and Mystical Fire or with the help of Rest or at least wear them down heavily so that they will not have the opportunity to get up Stealth Rock. In the majority of my games, I felt I was super reliant on Gurdurr for entry hazard control rather than my Magic Bounce user. Additionally, the benefit of Roost on Natu can be largely ignored since its too frail to even use effectively for the most part. While Teleport was nice on the occasion, I felt that it wasn't worth losing out on Healing Wish which is even more beneficial on VoltTurn teams, and makes Hattrem far more of a viable choice on other archetypes.

Replays which show it isn't worth using

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290433106-j2oq3zym69iutflhdrfhg4usd0vow27pw (Does nothing vs sun aside from stop Strength Sap once and is then a sack)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290465214-c45gnw4utf8fm6c5ur6iwvjx06digmnpw (Here it beats Night Shade Corsola and bounces back Stealth Rock. Unfortunately, Night Shade Corsola is pretty bad)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290478272-85jypypmurwuoec6b5ik3oov28qc312pw (Again, pretty useless because it can't bounce back Toxic Spikes showing my reliance on Gurdurr, but pivoted a few times I guess)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1290891886-khth9suafe8yxfh62ia1zpvpgcpzyg1pw (Low ladder not understanding how Magic Bounce works although I think the Charjabug matchup is okay for Natu)

Overall, this isn't worth using over Hattrem. I'll probably nom it down to UR on the VR in the near future as the metagame has become severely unfavourable to it with increase competition in the hazard control department and entry hazard users adapting to beat Hattrem, which in turn harms Natu more due to worse defenses.

 

[ojr]

NFE Research week 1 | Set up Clefairy
So for the first week, I kinda picked the easy one. I have used natu before on a stall team (https://pokepast.es/c9c754eb2af36b33) so I decided to pass on that one and go with Clefairy. I decided to go with cosmic power because I have used calm mind before (https://pokepast.es/58afde05f7589118) which was a cool set but cosmic power sounded even more demonic. At first, I used a set with cosmic power substitute stored power and softboiled. but after testing I realized that cosmic power as the only boosting move can be too weak to really be successful. so I decided to change substitute to work up. Substitute was mainly there to avoid paralysis since that is often the only thing that can stop set up Clefairy from breaking your team. But work up is overall better since u can get an even stronger stored power and really break through non knocked psychic resists.
@ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Work Up
- Stored Power
- Soft-Boiled
Building with this was pretty fun since I used some other fun sets that u don't always see. Importable:https://pokepast.es/df08f6c04c5dca3f.

I chose this Thwackey set because it matches up very well against the dark and steel types in this tier. This is more of an offensive pivot Thwackey which can also be used to check the electric types, ss wart, and a great knocker.

Lairon is a really fun rocker and opposing Thwackey check with its great defense and overall damage output. I advise using this monster more to every NFE player.

Mareanie provided an extra knocker, a good magmar check, and tspikes which helps clefairy even more. I chose sludge bomb as last move on mareanie because tangela is really annoying to face for this team and it also catches thwackey because having lairon alone is often not good enough.

Gurdurr was my next member to improve the pilo matchup, have another knocker because u can never have enough in nfe, and it's my hazards remover. toxic is nice for tangela because we already established that its a big threat for this team. I also chose Iron Fist to get more recovery from drain punch to keep gurdurr as healthy as possible.

At this stage I needed a ground type and a dark type, couldnt have been more simple than krokorok. krokorok also lures in tangela with toxic which makes the matchup actually pretty doable.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1291440500-33a9rjznp3m19nbtvf9dp8gsodcbzphpw (with sub clef)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1291475539-rb6tokn20kt9s74f2siq18msbmfmd8ypw (with work up)

Conclusion:
Set up Clefairy is an underrated sweeper, that can win a lot of games on its own. The downside of using it is that you don't have the usual support that a normal clefairy set gives you. I would definitely recommend using it because it can fully counter some teams and it feels very good to pull the sweep off.​

 

[Greybaum]

Went for CM Clefairy because I'd used it quite a bit in the past and wanted to see if anything had changed since last time. I normally don't use fully dedicated CM sets because they have so many auto-lose matchups (more on that later) but instead as an option on Stealth Rock Clefairy over Knock Off to help threaten out Hattrem, giving you an immediately advantage.

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

This is the set in question and I used it on on this team mostly because I wanted to try using offensive Gabite. The team itself is really unpolished but the general idea was to make use of Clefairy's ability to scare out Hattrem (and get up rocks) to benefit VoltTurn and use Gabite as a Pika softcheck and fast wincon to clean up when possible (+1 Outrage does a respectable chunk to Golbat after Tangela knocks it off, for example) and I think Clefairy excels in that role. What it didn't really excel in was sweeping on its own; it can't get past Super Fang Taunt Golbat, Haze Mareanie, defensive set-up sweepers like Duosion or opposing Clefairy (also see the replay ojr posted), and that last replay also shows the other issue with CM Clefairy as a wincon; it has pretty poor physical defence even fully invested and its SpAtk isn't particularly high either, meaning after you've lost your Eviolite it's pretty easy to get forced out by Pokemon like Piloswine, and if they're willing to sack a weaker physical attacker they can usually finish you off with something like Raboot or Golbat like in this replay so even in best case scenarios you're generally not cleaning teams. The other Clefairy set I tried was a Cosmic Power / Charge Beam variant, giving up the utility of Stealth Rocks for a way to bypass many variants of Golbat while also easing setup against physical attackers like the aforementioned Piloswine, but it ended up having similar problems like here where a Gunk Shot Raboot kills me despite three Cosmic Power boosts, or when a Haze Mareanie guaranteed a loss from turn 1. I think as a dedicated wincon Duosion massively overshadows it, but Calm Mind is still a really nice move option on Stealth Rock sets (instead of Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Wish, whatever the kids are running nowadays).

 

[ojr]

love react to this if u want to ban sun
fuck sun
its very obviously broken with limited counterplay, abusers are good as fuck, easy to use which makes it a great mu fish. even if ur a good nfe main vs a less experienced player you could lose cuz of how good it is. its basically really hard to prevent sun from going up since the main sun teams have hatt which beats like almost all the setters and port clef gets in pix. then lets talk about ivysaur, this mon has good moves with solar beam weather growth and then u can go sbomb/sleep powder. both are good options as last move sbomb hits fire types not called lampent for neutral damage and sleep powder kinda stops golbat in its tracks. and then we have charmeleon who just nukes almost everything except if ur immune to fire moves. raboot and magmar are a bit weaker but are more consistent picks overall. so yeaa we have a lot of abusers of sun and they are all very good + preventing rocks isnt hard at all makes sun very hard to beat. and thats why I think its broken lol