New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread - UU Edition

Really, the best Drummer outside of a sub would be one using a Wish/BD combo. Especially Clefable, because a lot of people will expect Wish/Protect and use that turn to try for some setup or something. Magmortar is lolslow, too - my entire team outspeeds it (granted, it is a HO team...)
 
I've tried a Belly Drum Magmar, it was something like this:

Magmar @ Salac Berry
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Hp
Adamant/Jolly
Belly Drum
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch / or maybe it was Earthquake?
Mach Punch

It was really reliant on Stealth Rock on YOUR side, as after a Belly Drum and Stealth Rock damage the berry would activate. Of course it was quite hard to set up perfectly.
 
i would really run a adamant nature on that, you got mach punch anyway and salac give you enough speed, mach punch beat scarfed ones with more then 90 speed.
 
I've been running CM passer hypno. Thing is, most people don't realize it's passing and let it set up about 2 or 3 CMs....

Hypno (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Toxic/Rest

I run it in tandem with moltres, but I assume any special sweeper is viable.
 
how's this for an UU lead?

Furret @ Choice Scarf
Jolly 4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
Trick
Super Fang
Sucker Punch
U-Turn

Trick the Scarf onto the other pokemon (I have 469 Speed with Scarf). Super Fang on the switch, use Sucker Punch for the kill. If I can't kill, switch with U-Turn.
 
Recently I've been giving a lot of thought to pokemon considered outdone by similar pokes, most notably Wigglytuff who's often considered a Clefable wannabe due to it's lower defenses, lower special attack (pretty much lower everything except HP) and worse ability selection. So I asked myself "What can Wigglytuff do better than Clefable?" and the answer came to me. Low defenses+high HP+low speed make it an excellent user of counter. And unlike it's counterpart Clefable it learns pain split making it capable of causing special attackers to eat their own attacks as well.

Set Name: Tough Tuff, or Glutton for Punishment
Wigglytuff@Leftovers
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 Sp D, 252 Defense, 4 HP (0 speed IVs)
Counter
Encore
Pain Split
Sesmic Toss

Wigglytuff will nearly always be going last, meaning that counter will always find it's mark against physical attackers. Against special attackers, Encore forces a switch from calm-mind users, while Pain Split is useful against choice specs users like Modest Alakazam who deals around 90% to a wigglytuff with this load-out when and then is then crippled by pain split. This Tuff can also handle some non-stab fighting attacks, taking heavy damage but achieving a KO through Counter. Seismic Toss is a no-brainer for a straightforward attacking move, given that this Tuff has no attacking power of it's own. It's crippled by toxic but can encore it and then pass on the increasing toxic damage to it's enemies with Pain Split.

Now why does Wigglytuff execute this set better than a similar Pink Blob who's much more popular (and more powerful all around)? Well for one, Wigglytuff has more HP and lower defenses than Clefable meaning that it'll take more damage on average, making both Pain Split and Counter more effective. It's lower speed also means that you aren't going to have to deal with the embarrassment of ending up using counter before the opposing pokemon attacks. Another point in Wigglytuff's favor in this niche instance is that Clefable can't learn Pain Split, which is in my opinion a rather underrated recovery move.
 
Wigglytuff sucks. Don't use it. A poke dedicated to using Counter works exactly once against most people, everyone will remember it because nobody else uses it, and having high HP makes it a super crappy user of Pain Split. Ghosts lol at it, mixed sweepers lol at it, special sweepers lol at it, and any setup poke besides Cursers lol at it. Oh, and Modest LO Alakazam OHKO's with Focus Blast. So does Timid Specs Zam.

Also, Counter always goes last, something well-known by users of CounterZam.

Try again.
 
I think Wigglytuff is just best as a supporter. Even with crappy defences, it can still survive quite a few hits. Wish/Protect/Heal Bell and even Perish Song works quite well in the UU environment (atleast in my experience).

EDIT: There's a Seviper set that I've been testing for random fun that's actually won me (or caused ragequits) quite a few battles:

Set Name: Annoying Bulky Snake
Seviper @ Black Sludge
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 Sp Def (252 Hp / 162 Def / 96 Sp Def / Careful Nature for a more bulkyspecial wise one)
Impish Nature / Shed Skin
Rest
Stockpile
Taunt
Poison Fang / Toxic

I realize there is a similiar set on the strategydex, but this set works purely as a staller. Although difficult to set up, it is extremely rewarding when given the chance. At +3 Def, +Atk Nature/252 Ev's Donphan's Earthquake is at best a 3HKO (3HKO with bulkyspecial at max HP too). Rest is for recovery, and has a 30% of waking up at the end of each turn with Shed Skin (Because of this it's not afraid of statuses as well). I prefer Poison Fang as it only takes a couple of hits to induce poison, and also helps the stalling process a little. The reason I chose Seviper over Arbok who also is able to learn Stockpile (and faster too!) is purely because of Taunt. With this, slow powerful threats aren't able to set up on you. I personally run the 252 Hp / 252 Def / 6 Sp Def as I don't usually keep it in against something like Alakazam. I find most people bring in their ground types against it.

It is a little gimmicky and a bit of work to set up, but a pretty fun set nonetheless.

Note: Did some random calculations and here (with Black Sludge healing 6%):
+2 Venusaur's Earthquake against +3 bulkyphysical Seviper: 41.1% - 49.7%
+2 Venusaur's Earthquake against +3 bulkyspecial Seviper: 52% - 62.4%
ChoiceSpecs Moltres' Fire Blast against +3 bulkyphysical Seviper: 48.3% - 58.1%
ChoiceSpecs Moltres' Fire Blast against +3 bulkyspecial Seviper: 36.1% - 44.9%
It's pretty much a matter of personal choice whether to survive as 2HKO's or 3HKO's.
 
DisableKazam?

Need some thoughts here on an Alakazam set that I haven't really seen used.

Disable
Encore
Psychic/Toxic
Substitute

(Leftovers)
SDEF/Speed

The basic idea here is to use Alakazam's speed to set up a Substitute, mainly fearing Fake Out, though Shadow Sneak can be dangerous too, esp at low HP. The Sub will block TWave and Toxic as well.

Depending on the move the opponent used, you either Disable or Encore. Disable things like Shadow Ball that are dangerous to Alakzam, or Encore things like Calm Mind that you can exploit.

Toxic probably works best with this, but I personally run it with Psychic because my team has plenty of Hazard support already and needs the firepower.
 
Narulyg said:
Wigglytuff sucks. Don't use it. A poke dedicated to using Counter works exactly once against most people, everyone will remember it because nobody else uses it, and having high HP makes it a super crappy user of Pain Split. Ghosts lol at it, mixed sweepers lol at it, special sweepers lol at it, and any setup poke besides Cursers lol at it. Oh, and Modest LO Alakazam OHKO's with Focus Blast. So does Timid Specs Zam.

Also, Counter always goes last, something well-known by users of CounterZam.

Try again.
Click to expand...

Now I wasn't denying that Wigglytuff is outclassed in pretty much all areas by Clefable-as a matter of fact I clearly stated that in the beginning of my post. I was just trying to create a potential moveset where Wigglytuff has an advantage over Clefable as far as how well he/she can use it. And I object to your contention that setup pokes LOL at it, as well as special sweepers. Set-up pokes, regardless of their speed aren't going to be able to act twice before Wigglytuff can get an Encore off, and mixed sweepers could be hurt by either pain split or counter based on prediction. It's certainly not perfect, and I'll try to improve it, but isn't the point of this forum to try out new ideas and "see what sticks?"

And to be quite honest with you I don't really appreciate your condescending tone. You could have simply outlined what you thought was wrong about the set, instead of saying "x pokemon sucks don't use it" and putting a smug "try again" at the end of your post. Personally speaking, Wigglytuff was a member of my first pokemon team back in the RBY days before I even knew there was such a thing as competitive battling, and so holds a special place in my heart just for nostalgia's sake. And I'm sure that anyone else who likes an admittedly subpar pokemon will agree with me that it's satisfying to try to salvage a poke who you like but who is outclassed by other choices (just as Wigglytuff is by it's counterparts Clefable and Chansey).

Here's my second try. I sincerely hope that it's acceptable to you.

Wigglytuff@Leftovers
EVs: 252 Sp D, 252 Def, 4 HP
Nature: Calm
Encore
Toxic/Pain Split/Wish
Counter
Seismic Toss

As far as the moveset goes, Toxic can help against bulky ghosts and walls, while pain split offers a measure of insurance against high powered special sweepers who will put the hurt on Wigglytuff. Wish can be used as an alternate recovery move that will provide a bit of team support as well.

Another set I thought might be possible is a curse/gyro ball set taking advantage of Tuff's already low speed. It might be an interesting idea for a trick room team.
 
Nice bulky seviper set-I've seen a few bulky Arboks on shoddy, who were quite annoying and surprisingly durable and I had never really considered doing a similar set with Seviper-I thought the lower defense and speed would be deal breakers. But I'd imagine that taunt would be a significant advantage, especially against slower pokemon like rock polish Golem or Torterra. Do you have a list of common threats that Seviper can outspeed with those EVs? Or is it pretty much just slow rock/ground/steel types?
 
It's pretty much just the slow ones you mentioned (-Base 60 Spe). Now that I actually look into it, Rock Polish Aggron/Rhyperior outspeeds Seviper even before the Rock Polish. I wouldn't keep Seviper in against an Aggron though (or any steel types for that matter), but Rhyperior is dangerous, threatening to 2HKO.

Rock Polish Aggron against bulkyspecial Seviper (w/ Black Sludge heal): 36.4% - 45.1%
Rock Polish Rhyperior against bulkyphysical Seviper (w/ Black Sludge heal): 56.1% - 67%
 
I've been wanting to test this for some time, but since Shoddy doesn't have Recycle (also no Iron Ball, I think), I never got the chance to. Also, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work, but meh, I want to try it once anyways:
Wigglytuff@Iron Ball, Adamant nature
EV's: 252HP/252ATK/4DEF
IV's: 0SPD
Moves:
-Gyro Ball
-Fling
-Recycle
-Wish
Fling with an Iron Ball is a base 130 Dark move, and the Iron Ball also powers up Gyro Ball. Wish is for recovery, and Recycle regains the Iron Ball. As I said, this has such a high chance of not working, with pretty bad coverage and Wigglytuff's low attack, but hey, this thread was about creativity anyways.
 
MasPan said:
Need some thoughts here on an Alakazam set that I haven't really seen used.

Disable
Encore
Psychic/Toxic
Substitute

(Leftovers)
SDEF/Speed

The basic idea here is to use Alakazam's speed to set up a Substitute, mainly fearing Fake Out, though Shadow Sneak can be dangerous too, esp at low HP. The Sub will block TWave and Toxic as well.

Depending on the move the opponent used, you either Disable or Encore. Disable things like Shadow Ball that are dangerous to Alakzam, or Encore things like Calm Mind that you can exploit.

Toxic probably works best with this, but I personally run it with Psychic because my team has plenty of Hazard support already and needs the firepower.
Click to expand...

This set is cool. If you can mange to switch zam into something it forces out (like say weezing), sub on the switch, encore the attack/setup, and then disable it, zam will get to fire off a psychic/Twave/toxic/whatever at a pokemon not designed to take hits from Alakazam. The downside is that you only have one slot to take advantage of. Psychic seems like the best choice, since it will dent even things that resist it in UU. There is always the option of setting up another sub on the switch and repeating the strategy for a while, which would work great with entry hazards. However disable's accuracy, encore's low pp, and the limited leftovers recovery will be sure to catch up to you eventually, making the option to continue only viable if there are already lots of entry hazards on the field and the opponents spinner is fainted.

Also you might want to change the evs up to SATK/SPE since its not supposed to be taking hits directly, just absorbing them with the sub. Timid nature of course, to outrun as much as possible.
 
Here's a fun set:

SubSeed Sceptile with a twist!!
Sceptile @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 216 HP/40 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade

Grass Pokemon will always beat you. The good thing about this set is that it can both attack and stall. If your opponent is something you can kill with SD'd Leaf Blades, kill it. If it isn't, bring on the Sub and start stalling (Exception would be Grass Pokemon).
 
"Stallturn" Set

Lanturn: @ Leftovers

56 HP / 200 Def / 252 SpD
Calm

Surf
Toxic
Stockpile
Aqua Ring / Protect / Heal Bell

Lanturn soaks up Special hits, and can boost its defenses. It resists Steel, Water, Fire, Ice and is immune to Electric. If you feel the foe is switching in a Lanturn counter, use Toxic (if you feel the counter is Poison or Steel, like Venasaur, then use Aqua Ring to heal 12.5% with Leftovers during their switch in and then switch out). You could also use Protect over Aqua Ring, and abuse it with Toxic.

I find Heal bell is great to have since its a rare move, and gives it something over other waters, but it's kind of situational... Just have a Poison/Steel, and a Fire type on your team.
Have Lanturn switch in on Thunderwaves and heal, a Poison/Steel like Venasaur switch in on Toxic, and a Fire type like Moltres switch in on W-o-w. Plus this way you get a "Water+Fire+grass" core. Moltres also covers the Ground weakness, while Lanturn covers the Electric and Water weakness, as does Venasaur.

Or just pack another Heal Bell or Aromatherapy user like Miltank, Meganium, Chansey, etc. Additionally, if you use Toxic Spikes, perhaps Heal Bell could go over Toxic.

Pack a Rapid Spinner to help your team like Hitmontop with Intimidate, so it can take Rock hits for your Fire type, as well as spin away Stealth Rocks and handle Chansey.

So in other words: Lanturn, Moltres, Hitmontop, Venasaur work well together! Add 2 more and you're set. The advanatage here is Hitmontop can Intimidate physical foes so Lanturn has an easier time switching in, and setting up. With Toxic, Moltres doesn't need to use a Toxic Set, and can instead be a sweeper. Venasaur helps absorb opposing Toxic [Spikes], Grass and Leech Seed attacks, while Lanturn takes Fire, Ice, and Flying hits in return.
 
shrang said:
Here's a fun set:

SubSeed Sceptile with a twist!!
Sceptile @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 216 HP/40 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade

Grass Pokemon will always beat you. The good thing about this set is that it can both attack and stall. If your opponent is something you can kill with SD'd Leaf Blades, kill it. If it isn't, bring on the Sub and start stalling (Exception would be Grass Pokemon).
Click to expand...

You do realize that Venusaur is the number one Pokemon and absolutely destroys this set right?

This will never work, well I doubt it anyway.
 
Heysup said:
You do realize that Venusaur is the number one Pokemon and absolutely destroys this set right?

This will never work, well I doubt it anyway.
Click to expand...

I tried it before, and Venasaur is indeed a huge problem, one big enough that I just changed mine to the standard Swordtile.
 
If I was to run that Sceptile I'd use X-Scissor or something so that I can hit Grass-types because they're the only thing immune to Leech Seed. So Leech Seed takes care of everything else while X-Scissor clears out grass-types. I could see it being effective with a good amount of hazards down, but I still think SubStormTile would be more effective overall....
 
I've been trying something a little strange lately, but I think it might work:

Linoone
Jolly
252 Attack/ 6 Defense/ 252 Speed
@ Salac Berry/Choice Scarf*

Super fang/Switcheroo*
Belly Drum
Extremespeed
Shadow Claw

Simple strategy. If I feel that the other lead won't be offensive and will probably set up SR, I use Belly Drum. After that, it's a 6-0 sweep (unless they have a steel type). If they are going to be offensive, I either use Switcheroo to lock them into one attack, then switch in someone who resists it, or I use super fang and then extremespeed. What do you think?
 
Naturally that's dependent on whichever item and first move-slot you use.

If you run Fang and Salac Berry... You're Taunt fodder and you're nearly always forced out (Don't quote me on this entirely, I could probably wake up tomorrow and question this post, myself).

If you run Switcheroo and Scarf... Well you're not in the easiest situation, still. Opposing Scarf leads will be issues (and with Uxie being so versatile, it's really unsure whether it's a Dual Screener, Standard support or TrickScarf. Same applies to Mesprit, more or less.

I see the merits, but I see the issues too. It also wouldn't surprise me if the opponent did carry a Steel-type (most notable encounter, in my opinion, would be Registeel).

To sum up this post; This lead does have merits, not major but it has them, but it also has a few major flaws. Ambipom would generally cause you some issues. They don't mind a Scarf too much, but on top of that they're going to get something done. Fake Out is obvious (and naturally, you won't enjoy it). Due to Linoone instantly giving the impression of a Belly Drummer you can expect Taunt. This forces you out either way (SwitchScarf or not).

Sorry this post will likely seem pointless. =\
 
@ Shrang

Like Thund said, if you want offense on your SubSeed Sceptile, use the version with 0 HP IVs and max Special Attack with Leaf Storm over Energy Ball. Overgrow Leaf Storm hurts anything like a bitch.

I've been using Cloyster as an offensive lead/bulky water lure and it's been working prety well:

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Attack, 104 Speed, 152 Special Attack
Naughty (+Attack, -Special Defense)
- Spikes
- Ice Shard
- Surf
- Explosion

These EVs allow Cloyster to outspeed 8 speed neutral natured Milotic and everything below, such as standard Blastoise, Poliwrath, and Azumarill. Explosion OHKOs all of them except max/max+ Blastoise. Surf hits leads such as Rhyperior, Donphan, and Steelix as well as giving a nicely powered STAB move to throw around. Ice Shard lets Cloyster beat lead LOTres, as well as hitting Swellow, Scyther, and Dugtrio faster than you can say 'wtf Cloyster has priority'. Spikes are spikes.

This set allows Cloyster to maintain much of its incredible physical bulk while ditching its piss-poor Special Defense in an effort to take a defensive pokemon down with it. This set allows Cloyster to abuse the fact that the aforementioned bulky waters love to switch in and get free turns off of its normally lolsauce offensive prowess and does its job pretty well
 
I have been leading with Houndoom the past couple of weeks. I didn't like the set in the analysis so I tried one myself. It has been amazingly succesful, not only as a lead but also as midgame heavy hitter:

houndoom.png

Houndoom @ focus sash/ rash/ flash fire
EV's: 20 Atk, 236 Spe, 252 SAtk​

- Overheat
- Sucker Punch
- Hidden Power (grass)
- Magic Coat​

This set allows me to let Houndoom act as a decent anti-lead. Most People expect him to have Taunt so they go for an attack move anyway. This will preven set up of entry hazzards most of the time. Faster leads (Scarf Venusaur, Jumpluff, sometimes even Uxie) can be put to sleep with their own Sleep Powder thank to Magic Coat. Since the lead Houndoom set on the strategydex has Counter, most opponents try to status him instead, which is where Magic Coat comes in handy again. Overheat is a STAB move and with max special attack it is sure to dent anything. Hidden Power (grass) comes in handy against Omastar, Kabutops and Rhyperior leads. and with Sucker Punch I can take down Sash leads. (most notable Aqua Jet Kabutops).

The speed EV's lets Houndoom outspeed all max speed base 80's (Venusaur). Max SAtk to do more damage and the leftover EV's are there to boost the power of Sucker Punch (which still does about 70% to Dugtrio).

This is how it fairs against common leads:

Spiritomb: Overheat + Sucker Punch KO's it and because I'm immune to Will-o-wisp, I'm pretty safe.

Kabutops: Hidden Power (grass) + Sucker Punch will deal with it, I shall live thanks to Focus Sash.

Omastar: OHKO'ed by Hidden Power (grass).

Cloyster: Most versions are OHKO'ed by Overheat.

Rhyperior: Hidden Power (grass) does 88.9% - 105.2% so it's a definite 2HKO.

Ambipom: I need to switch unfortunatly.

Moltres: I need to switch as well.

Venusaur: Magic Coat back the Sleep Powder and threaten it with Overheat. Otherwise take the Earthquake and OHKO back with Overheat.

Jumpluff: Magic Coat back the Sleep Powderand threaten it with Overheat.

Uxie: I trie to get as much damage on it with Overheat and Sucker Punch on the predicted U-turn. Magic Coat against the Thunderwave users and take the Trick (Scarf) so I can 2HKO with Overheat.
 
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