Need for Speed (Ninjask Discussion)

chewy

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/291.shtml

Looked back to threads up to September 06, surprised to find no threads discussing this insectoid beast.

Base Stats
HP:61
Atk:90
Def:45
SAtk:50
SDef: 50
Spd:160

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Notable Attacks:
Bug Bite (if you're lucky you'll catch a Liechi berry)
X-scissor
Aerial Ace
Thief
U-turn
Night Slash

Notable Support:
Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Protect
Roost (too fragile to use it effectively though)
Substitute

Notable Special:
Off 50 SAtk, nothing really.

Analysis: Fragile as hell, but with one of the best trait/move combos in the game: Speed Boost + Baton Pass. In addition, Jask has THE HIGHEST SPEED in the game, including ubers. It can go up to a max EV/+nature 460 speed without boosts. This allows it to outspeed neutral speed nature, base 102 speed pokes (read: Garchomp) with Choice Scarf.

Edit: It has the highest speed other than Deoxys E.
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Counters: Anything that phaze/hazes that can survive a ninjask attack. Also Weavile with Ice Shard beats it 1v1 when Ninjask doesn't have a sub up. The biggest blow to Ninjask is, of course, Stealth Rock. 50% to 4x rock weaks on the switch destroys everything, from the mighty Ho-Oh to the lowly Butterfree. On the upside, there are much less pokes using p/hazing due to a more offensive metagame, though Skarmary remains a threat to all Ninjask sets.

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Recommended Sets:

Speed/Attack Passer:

Ninjask (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Aerial Ace/ X-scissor/ U-turn
- Protect/ Swords Dance
- Substitute

Ninjask (M) @ No Item
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Thief
- Protect/ Swords Dance/ Physical Attack
- Substitute

Choice Bander:
Ninjask (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Night Slash
- U-turn
- X-scissor

156 Speed for 395 to outspeed the base 130's. If you're afraid of Choice Scarf, Jolly Jask is an option, but the CBer really needs the Atk. Also, Protect allows Adamant Jask to outspeed all CSers after one boost. 96 HP EV's for 287 HP to let it survive 2 switch-in with Stealth Rock and Sandstorm active.

The thief set is to be used to combination with Magnezone. Steal the Beautiful Skin of an incoming Skarm and let Magnezone handle the rest. If using a non-attacking thief set (not recommended), put more Ev's into defenses.

==============================

Conclusion: Ninjask is still very much viable in the OU metagame, especially as a starter. It handles common leads Heracross and Gengar easily and U-turns to counter the switch. If the opponent isn't prepared, passing even one speed boost to a monster like Garchomp could spell doom for the unwary. Although it lost Hidden Power in the DP transition, it gained powerful new weapons in X-scissor and U-turn. Stealth Rock hurts it badly, so players must make more judicious use of this pokemon than in RSE. Saving it until the end of the game when there is a higher chance of sweeping is advisable.
 
In addition, Jask has THE HIGHEST SPEED in the game, including ubers.

Actually, Deoxys-E is faster at 504 speed.
 
Well Ninjask better be a starting pokemon (it always was, but now moreso than ever) the darn thing is 4x weak to stealth rock bad deal... Substitute sets really dont work much with it anymore due to Sandstorm being likely prevalent... You have to play Ninjask differently than you used to for the most part. Get a Few Speed boosts and Baton Off... I think its going to become quite hard to use this thing.
 
Mekkah said it before, but I'll say it here. I think that Ninjask works wonders in Baton Pass chains as a disabler of their counter. The major counter to a Ninjask in a BP chain is Skarmory, Thief that item away from it and Baton Pass to Magnezone. +1 speed when you give it enough to reach 200 makes it faster than base 100 neutral Pokemon and allows Magnezone to have some fun.
 
I noticed how almost all the rmt's so far have almost no phazer, i've seen skarmory a couple of times but besides skarm there are little to no (p)phazers.
This is of course great news for jask.
I think he might get some more use in DP.
 
The thief set is to be used to combination with Magnezone. Steal the Beautiful Skin of an incoming Skarm and let Magnezone handle the rest. If using a non-attacking thief set (not recommended), put more Ev's into defenses.
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks for the credit and stuff...

Toxic should prove sufficient for forcing Suicune to Rest as well as Regice, but these two seem to be extremely rare. Ninjask does not like the addition of Adherance Scarf and Stealth Rock at all. Nonetheless a great starter to scout Salamence's moveset with, using Protect then passing to something adequate with Ice Beam. Or something like that.
 
Sorry, I didn't find that specific thread, I thought of it myself, if you want the credit for that set, its yours.

Ninjask really doesn't mind Choice Scarf that much. Protect really allows it outspeed everything. The addition of new first strike moves hurts it more IMO. It can easily outspeed the common CScross and 1HKO it as well.
 
Don't underestimate Ninjask... I was messing around some time ago and came up with this lead:

Ninjask speed boost
~ Adamant @focus strip
Swords dance
Scissor cross
Sunny day
Baton pass

Hilarity. Swords dance against anything because you will survive with focus strip. Baton pass next turn. If you are facing T-tar, use sunny day so that sandstream doesn't kill you. If T-tar dances, swords dance next turn (you still have focus strip). If instead it taunts, 2HKO it (or OHKO with a swords dance). If it substitutes, break the substitute. When your focus strip is used, BP next turn. At worst you are passing one speed boost, which could be enough for say... swords dance/rock polish/stone edge/earthquake Rhyperior (especially with sunny day halving water attacks. Nobody uses haze, and Cradily gets swords dance now.

You only have a problem if specifically you face a T-tar lead who taunts first turn, uses your focus strip second turn and then switches out, unless your opponent randomly roars at some point.

Edit: yeah ok, so random rock blasting leads will hax you too. That's being rather pedantic isn't it, Violent Storm? The idea is sound and rock blast is predictable.

Edit2: usually my initial reaction to any opposition is annoyance, but secondary reaction is good job on finding a weakness.
 
Thats not quite true McGraw... Anything (mainly Armaldo) using Rock Blast gets around this (and by Default Rhyperior would too if it had Rock Blast) The first Hit negates Focus Strips Effect, and the second Rock Blast sends poor Ninjask Straight to Hell as Ninjask no Longer has Full HP...

Edit: I never said the idea wasnt a good one now did I? I only pointed out Rock Blasters would be able to take out this type of strategy... Your point about predictability is fairly decently noted however...

As far as prediction goes talk to the last person whos Ninjask that was 0wned by my Octillery...
 
Barely anything will use Rock Blast, though I always prefer to Protect against potential Blasters so I can still pass speed.

Passing to Cradlily and Octillary are both viable options now that they can both boost (again hazing seems rare). Octillary has Charge Beam to boost its high special attack. Cradlily has Swords Dance to beat Skarm.

Interesting set McGraw, though if you can predict the Sunny Day/Swords Dance, Weavile can come in on the switch and ruin the fun. Stealth Rock/Sandstream already being in play is going to ruin that set 9 times out of 10. Even when said Ninjask is the lead, Weavile sends him running, and Cradlily and Octillary with speed passsed don't have the firepower to make a dent early game, should Skarm come in. If CB T-tar is the lead, then all Ninjask can do is pass speed, which doesn't do much early game.

It would go something like this:
T-tar and Ninjask enter the arena!
A sandstorm rages. (First turn, Ninjask doesn't take damage, right?)
Turn 1:
Ninjask used Sunny Day!
T-tar used Stone Edge!
Its super effective!
Ninjask hung on using Focus Strip!
Speed Boost raises Ninjask's speed!

Turn 2:
Ninjask used Baton Pass...

As far as I can tell, Ninjask can't really do anything to t-tar...

Edit: I didn't see your edit before McGraw, taunt is an even greater force to be reckoned with this gen, which is another reason I like protect on my Jasks.
 
chewy said:
Barely anything will use Rock Blast, though I always prefer to Protect against potential Blasters so I can still pass speed.

Passing to Cradlily and Octillary are both viable options now that they can both boost (again hazing seems rare). Octillary has Charge Beam to boost its high special attack. Cradlily has Swords Dance to beat Skarm.
Click to expand...

I would never run Ninjask on a team unless I had Magnezone on it, but having Magnezone, hell yes I would run Ninjask. Circular, huh? Having a Cradily / Octillery would just be icing on the cake, I'd probably opt for Cradily given its amazing durability. You only need to outspeed Heracross with Cradily and nail it with HP Fire / HP Flying or STAB Stone Edge.

I like a lot. I think I'll make a Ninjask team now. McGraw's Ninjask lead is tempting, and it would work well with an HP Fire Cradily should TTar show its face.
 
McGraw said:
Don't underestimate Ninjask... I was messing around some time ago and came up with this lead:

Ninjask speed boost
~ Adamant @focus strip
Swords dance
Scissor cross
Sunny day
Baton pass
Click to expand...
Nice. I think that I first posted a focus strip Ninjask near the beginning of february. I'd put down Sommesault over scizzor cross for the "threat" of celebi switching out at an inconvienient time, and protect over sunny day for +3 speed (sweeping cradily, anyone?). But dealing with many pokes at once is good too.
 
the voice of reason said:
Nice. I think that I first posted a focus strip Ninjask near the beginning of february. I'd put down Sommesault over scizzor cross for the "threat" to celebi, and protect over sunny day for +3 speed (sweeping cradily, anyone?). But dealing with many pokes at once is good too.
Click to expand...

Why have U-Turn on a Pokemon whose purpose is to Baton Pass? Celebi wouldn't want to be in on Ninjask anyways, X-Scissor murders it.
 
OMFG McGraw. You gave me a OHKO orgasm when I saw that lead. It's an awesome lead and REALLY gets around Stealth Rock. I would've never thought about using Ninjask as lead to get around its main weaknesses. That's damn good eats.
 
In DP, Choice Scarf's existence now makes me think that turning Ninjask into a Choice Bander would be a bad idea, so I modified the CB set you posted to take advantage of Life Orb or Expert Belt.

Ninjask @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 82 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash
- Protect

I put more into Speed because I like round numbers, and 400 is more than enough to make sure that after it Protects once and gets a Speed Boost, it outspeeds every single Scarf holder in the game (aside from something like Deoxys-E, but anybody who decides to give that poke a Choice Scarf is an idiot). 400 also ensures that it outspeeds any pokes thinking that they can get by with a Salac boost, since most users make sure that they have just enough speed to beat Jolt and Aero.

This Ninjask would be more of a late-game cleaner, something to bring in after the opponent's Steel type is gone. It has quite a bit of Attack to use, but it's not exactly a lot compared to actual sweepers, so this would be better suited to getting rid of pokes who've already taken a bit of damage. Because of how frail it is, there's no sense in putting any EVs into the Defences, so just put any leftovers in the HP.

Life Orb or Expert Belt can be used to boost the strength of its attacks; Life Orb whittles your life down, and in a metagame with Stealth Rock and Sandstream, it may not be a great idea, but it ensures that most of the pokes you face will be more heavily damaged. On the other hand, Expert Belt allows Ninjask to do more super effective damage, and that can help out a lot, but then again, it can be situational. Personally, I'd just use Life Orb.
 
I made this back a while in a RMT that ended up being locked.

Ninjask-Focus strip
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Speed/ 6 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk - SAtk)
-protect
-baton pass
-somersault
-swords dance

protect, swords dance, protect, batton pass. in that order Survives every thing but sandstorm and of corse the roar but a 2.5X boost in speed and 2X in attack is something i feel is worth the risk.
 
quinnydinny said:
I made this back a while in a RMT that ended up being locked.

Ninjask-Focus strip
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Speed/ 6 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk - SAtk)
-protect
-baton pass
-somersault
-swords dance

protect, swords dance, protect, batton pass. in that order Survives every thing but sandstorm and of corse the roar but a 2.5X boost in speed and 2X in attack is something i feel is worth the risk.
Click to expand...
That is identical to the one that I already suggested. The reason for Sommersault is to immediately switch out AFTER they switch out their Celebi, while still remaining a crebible threat. Just thought I'd explain myself to ADH.
 
yes it was almost exactly yours BUT the use of protect gives you a 3 speed boost pass instead of just 1.

Edit: though i guess you did mention protect...
 
OMG ITz Hirschberger said:
Ninjask is so easy to beat if you know how. Stealth rock and Roar.
Click to expand...

But if used it right, it will turn the game around for you. On every team, it is the type of pokemon that you build your team around once you know its weaknesses. Ninjask basically needs a support team to work its way around roar and stealth rock, so a rapid spinner is in order as well as MaggyZ, Octillary or Cradlily. It's high risk, very high reward.
 
I've been trying to abuse a SD, Night Slash, ScissorCross, BatonPass set but have worried about Sandstorm and Stealth Rock ruining the fun of Focus strip.

Sunny Day does stop the sandstorm (though I believe most Tars will be CBTars who will StoneEdge/Crunch you first turn) and Stealth Rock necessitates the need of him as a starter (moreso than usual).

The big deal with McGraw's set as a starter is the ASGar hype and getting put to sleep (which ruins all the fun). Night Slash sadly isn't a OHKO so that isn't a quick fix either (and Bug is a better attacking type than Dark in virtually every situation except against Ghosts).

There's not much room to fit Substitute in and should you do, you lose efficacy completely.
 
I'm picturing this hilarious opener...

AGmence vs. FSjask

FSjask uses Protect
AGmence uses Flamethrower

FSjask uses Sunny Day
AGmence uses Flamethrower
FSjask is saved by focus strip.

FSjask uses Protect
AGmence uses Flamethrower

FSjask Baton Passes to Heatran... Sunny Day'd Flash Fire'd +3 speed Heatran sounds mighty nasty, no?
 
More like this:

Opponent switched to Skarmory
FSJask uses Protect
-
FSJask BatonPasses/SDs/Attacks
Skarmory used Whirlwind
-
Skarmory dropped spikes everywhere


You're using Protect too many times.
It would work a bit more like this if they stayed in:

FSJask used SD
CGMence Fthrew
FSJask held on
-
FSJask BatonPasses +2att/+1spd to asskicker
CGMence either keeps fthrowing, switches, or cries as per standard.
 
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