RU National Dex RU Metagame Discussion

[Runo]

Mamoswine is banned from NatDex RU

Slate

Gangsta Spongebob's vote will be added once he votes, but it doesn't effect the outcome.

Mamoswine has been problematic for a while now but with Slowbro's rise to UU we've come to the realization that it's an insanely dumb wallbreaker since it is borderline impossible to wall and quite difficult to offensively check with only Buzzwole being able to switch into it properly and force it out. Everything else is 2HKO'd or outright OHKO'd by Mamoswine's absurd STAB combination and incredibly high attack stat. Other assumed "checks" such as Rotom-Heat and Bronzong couldn't actually check it in reality because of Mamoswine's powerful Knock Off. Offensive checks such as Scizor and Cobalion once again ran into the problem of being unable to switch into it at all (Or in Scizor's case, it could switch in but not without taking massive damage in the process). Fast revenge killers (which needed to have something sacked in order to get them in safely because again, nothing aside from Buzzwole can switch into this safely) such as Mienshao and Zarude also were unable to keep it in check throughout the game since they would be wiped out by Mamoswine's Ice Shard once they were worn down enough. Basically unless you had a Buzzwole on your team, then nothing was safe from its wrath which is obviously insanely constraining on the teambuilder.

Oh wait a second. After some in depth research, I have found another mon that can check Mamoswine! Its immune to Earthquake, is resistant to its Ice STAB, not weak to Knock Off, has great physical bulk, AND can force it out. Lets see our saviour!

The 2nd Mamoswine Check

yea... Mamoswine is broken as hell lmfao.

tagging Kris and Marty to implement this.

Also if you couldn't tell by the banslate georgebowserjr has stepped down from council and Kinzo Ketchum has taken his place. Thank you George for your time with us, and congratulations to our newest council member.

 

[Runo]

If you spent anytime in this tier, you might have noticed the several Fighting-type breakers that tend to roam this tier such as Mienshao, Cobalion, Conkeldurr, Slither Wing, and many more. Buzzwole, as one might imagine, shares a lot of the same aspects with these threats such as it's rather absurd attack stat. A key difference however is that it can pair this absurd attack stat with its equally absurd physical bulk and easily switch into staple physical attackers such as Mienshao or Scizor and threaten heavy damage back with its powerful Close Combat or just stonewall it with Bulk Up variants. But this isn't even the most egregious thing it does; Buzzwole's Choice Band sets are absurdly broken because it barely has any switch-ins to speak of because of it's insane power level and obnoxious coverage options such as Ice Punch, Dual Wingbeat, and the uncommon Earthquake. Many assumed checks to Choice Band Buzzwole need to either fully invest into Physical Defense (such as Nidoqueen and Primarina [They can only switch in once due to a lack of recovery]), predict around its coverage (such as opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and Crobat) which is easier said than done, or both in Togekiss's case. Another thing that tends to go unmentioned when talking about Buzzwole is the partners it tends to pair with, with Slowking being one of the best partner because of FuturePort enabling Choice Band Buzzwole very well. It's incredibly difficult to call Crobat or even a hard "counter" like Galarian Weezing a good answer when they get wiped off the map by Slowking's Future Sight. It's not just Poison-types that get invalidated as checks; those opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and literally anything that might be able to switch into it just once can all end up taking heavy damage with Close Combat + Future Sight. This isn't isolated to Slowking either since Munkidori and the rare Assault Vest Reuniclus and Galarian Slowbro can pull off the same thing with it. Being honest I think the idea of Fighting-type breaker + Future Sight is very strong in this tier but Buzzwole is very much the dumbest you can get with this strategy so I think it should be removed from this tier as soon as possible. I know that the defensive sets are incredibly valuable for this tier but this isn't a necessary evil we need to keep. We would be better off long term removing it and cleaning up the mess left behind.


"Does this mean Conkeldurr and Slither Wing could be broken too?"

I won't lie, it's very possible that both these mons (especially Conkeldurr) might be too much for this tier as they function pretty much the same as offensive Buzzwole with Conkeldurr hitting even harder than Buzzwole while having even less switch-ins (Yeah you know that Galarian Weezing you tried to switch into Buzzwole? It's not switching into a Guts boosted Facade, you're SOL) and Slither Wing having access to Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, and U-Turn to invalidate any resemblance of a check in Nidoqueen, Primarina, and the former mentions. It's very important to keep these threats on watch after Tier Shifts occur, especially if council seriously considers a ban on Buzzwole.


I'm throwing this next mention on here as an addendum of sorts, since there has been a very insistent person who thinks that Latias is broken and at this point I can understand their concerns. After we unbanned Latias post-Tera, it's been pretty stable since we have a good array of checks in theory such as Tinkaton and Slowking. But recently Latias's main issue is that it's too versatile to reliably check since it has it has a lot of viable sets and each of them can have a lot of variance to them such as the Calm Mind sets. Trying to predict what a Latias is going to be on preview is a really big chore to accomplish because of this and it can have dire consequences for guessing incorrectly.

examples

<
Sending in your special defensive Steel-type to check it only to end up getting nuked by Calm Mind Z-Mystical Fire is incredibly annoying. Especially if this is your only response to Latias.

<
Sending SpDef Slowking in to scout Calm Mind sets can be ok but if the Latias set is Z-Tbolt or worse Z-Thunder, then it means that your Slowking can't be chipped at all or it will get overwhelmed (even then there is a chance to be completely OHKO'd regardless and Slowking can't do anything to this set unless it is the uncommon Thunder Wave variant). Physdef Slowking can't respond to a boosted Latias at all.

< /
Kind of the same thing as Slowking except it struggles to answer CM Mystical Fire Latias unless Togekiss is the defensive Thunder Wave set.

This already feels like a lot for the tier's defensive cores, but we still have some decent revenge killers to deal with this such as Krookodile, Zarude, Mienshao kind of, and more. Although it really feels like you always have to choose something to sack to get them in safely in front of Latias. And on top of that I only think that Krookodile, Mega Absol, and Scizor (set dependent / you need significant chip on Latias) are effective enough because of Pursuit. Otherwise Latias can just switch out and come back later to finish off your team. Overall I just think Latias puts unnecessary strain on the teambuilder since realistically you need to stack checks in order to be fully secure against Latias. I think we could test this a bit more and explore some different sets but to be honest, I've seen enough of it. It's not a healthy presence in this tier to me.

This is a little fluffy so the TL:DR is just ban Buzzwole, seriously consider banning Latias too.

While I'm here I might as well show off my new and improved personal VR and dump some of my favorite teams.

- Elaborate "I'm gonna build for every mon on the VR" type of scheming (I gave up after Tangrowth [It was team #3])
- Choice Band Metagross BO
- CM Glowbro ft. Noivern
- ToxRock Nido ft. Noivern
- Fire-Z Latias Hazard Stack
- NDPL Week 6 ZeraRude BO

The VR

Don't treat C- as a real rank cuz most of the mons there suck ass anyways

Also I don't really have a good idea of where Okidogi should be so I didn't rank it. Probably in the B area

 

[Runo]

After 7 days in this new year, our announcement to celebrate are some desired bans for National Dex RU.

Blacephalon and Buzzwole have been banned from National Dex RU!
Tagging Kris and Marty to implement

Voting Slate

RU Slate	Blacephalon	Buzzwole	Hydreigon	Latias
Gangsta Spongebob	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban
Furret4SSB	Ban	Ban	DNB	DNB
Velcroc	Ban	DNB	DNB	DNB
db	Ban	Ban	Abstain	DNB
Runo	Ban	Ban	DNB	Ban
Kinzo Ketchum	Ban	Ban	DNB	Ban
Outcome	Banned	Banned	Not Banned	Not Banned

Self-quoting because I don't really want to re-invent the wheel with ban arguments here.

If you spent anytime in this tier, you might have noticed the several Fighting-type breakers that tend to roam this tier such as Mienshao, Cobalion, Conkeldurr, Slither Wing, and many more. Buzzwole, as one might imagine, shares a lot of the same aspects with these threats such as it's rather absurd attack stat. A key difference however is that it can pair this absurd attack stat with its equally absurd physical bulk and easily switch into staple physical attackers such as Mienshao or Scizor and threaten heavy damage back with its powerful Close Combat or just stonewall it with Bulk Up variants. But this isn't even the most egregious thing it does; Buzzwole's Choice Band sets are absurdly broken because it barely has any switch-ins to speak of because of it's insane power level and obnoxious coverage options such as Ice Punch, Dual Wingbeat, and the uncommon Earthquake. Many assumed checks to Choice Band Buzzwole need to either fully invest into Physical Defense (such as Nidoqueen and Primarina [They can only switch in once due to a lack of recovery]), predict around its coverage (such as opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and Crobat) which is easier said than done, or both in Togekiss's case. Another thing that tends to go unmentioned when talking about Buzzwole is the partners it tends to pair with, with Slowking being one of the best partner because of FuturePort enabling Choice Band Buzzwole very well. It's incredibly difficult to call Crobat or even a hard "counter" like Galarian Weezing a good answer when they get wiped off the map by Slowking's Future Sight. It's not just Poison-types that get invalidated as checks; those opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and literally anything that might be able to switch into it just once can all end up taking heavy damage with Close Combat + Future Sight. This isn't isolated to Slowking either since Munkidori and the rare Assault Vest Reuniclus and Galarian Slowbro can pull off the same thing with it. Being honest I think the idea of Fighting-type breaker + Future Sight is very strong in this tier but Buzzwole is very much the dumbest you can get with this strategy so I think it should be removed from this tier as soon as possible. I know that the defensive sets are incredibly valuable for this tier but this isn't a necessary evil we need to keep. We would be better off long term removing it and cleaning up the mess left behind.

Blacephalon is one of the new drops in January which didn’t really had any business in UU due to the presence of tier king M-Tyranitar as well as faster, stronger and bulkier threats such as Cinderace, Iron Hands, Iron Moth, Alakazam and more. Now in RU? A lot of these answers are not present at all, allowing all 3 of Choice Specs, Choice Scarf and Sub Calm Mind Ghostium Z to thrive in a meta with such a limited amount of “counterplay”. Bulky waters such as specially defensive Swampert can only switch into it once or just not at all in Empoleon and Primarina's case. Other potential checks such as Blissey can end up getting invalidated by Trick or turned into setup fodder by Sub Calm Mind. This means that, for the most part, the only true defensive checks to Blacephalon consisted of Hydreigon and Cyclizar. While these are pretty good in the current metagame, both come with their own issues. For starters, Hydreigon isn't particulary bulky nor does it actually want to invest into bulk traditionally. But it needs a good amount of defensive investment in order to check it which cuts into either it's speed or its power. Both of which make Hydreigon less effective into other threats in this metagame such as Latias. Cyclizar on the other hand is pretty fine, you just need to slap on an Assault Vest and you're good to go. But similar to defensive Hydreigon, it doesn't do the best job at offensively pressuring it and other threats like Thunderus. Overall being forced to go either defensive Hydreigon (not a good set) or Cyclizar in order to handle it is incredibly constraining for this tier.

Some other mentions:

As stated in the last post, Latias has been a very versatile threat in this metagame which makes it incredibly dangerous when trying to predict any one of its sets (and their subsequent variants which can be fine tuned to beat whatever wall it needs to). However with high Tinkaton usage, solid checks in Togekiss and Primarina, and revenge killers such as Hydreigon, Zarude, and Krookodile, there is a still some counterplay left to work with. Additionally a split vote on Latias and some high animosity among the playerbase means that there is a very high chance we vote on Latias again.

We voted on Hydreigon because Nasty Plot sets are still extremely difficult to contest defensively. Other sets such as Choice Specs and what looks to be its flagship offensive utility sets are also very dangerous to account for, especially with the amount of coverage options (like Earth Power, Fire Blast, and Flash Cannon) and Z-crystals (like Darkium, Dragonium, Firium, Groundium, etc) it has to choose from.

We didn't vote on these but there was some legitimate concerns about these.

Arctozolt and Slowking has been a very dangerous core in this tier since Arctozolt has very few switch-ins in general, and mons that can switch into it are either not great in this tier (such as Mega Steelix) or lose to its strong Freeze Dries or Blizzards (such as Quaqsire and physically defensive Hippowdon respectively). What's stopped us from being concerned before was that Arctozolt was just tied to Slowking or some shitty auto snow setters such as Vanilluxe or Abomasnow, but with Alolan Ninetales dropping Arctozolt can be enabled far easier and additionally enjoys the fast Aurora Veils that it recives in order to make it quite hard to revenge kill. Even with this, it's not super hard to remove it with your Choice Scarf user, with common ones in Mienshao, Krookodile, Hydriegon, and Munkidori all being capable at removing Arctozolt.

Yeah so it turns out that Mega Beedrill isn't a shitty niche C-ranker and is actually very threatening with it's incredibly powerful U-turns, making it turn into a fantastic pick on volt-turn teams. Unlike in UU, it can also get more value in its coverage moves such as Drill Run in order to obliterate threats such as Tinkaton and quickly wear down walls such as Mega Aggron and the nicher Mega Steelix and Doublade. Other moves such as Knock Off is great at crippiling walls such as Gligar and Crobat, while helping to force progress against Mandibuzz and non-Bugium Z Scizor. It also functions pretty well as a Pursuit trapper, being able to remove threats such as Latias and the now banned Blacephalon. But one can't ignore its obvious flaws in its typing and bulk. Being really weak to hazards in a tier with mediocre hazard control is not great and any chip Mega Beedrill takes is very bad for it since it has very limited switch ins to begin with.

Quaquaval has started to pick up some steam recently with Slowbro's rise to UU and the uptick of offensive teams to take advantage of since its strong STAB moves in Close Combat and Aqua Step alongside great coverage options (like Triple Axel, Knock Off, U-Turn or Brave Bird) and great variety in sets (Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance, Utility, etc) makes it hard to defensively account for in the teambuilder, making it similar to Latias in its versatility. Unlike Latias, Quaquaval is actually way harder to revenge kill because of Aqua Step's speed boost letting it outpace every Choice Scarf user in the tier at +2 and generally bulky enough to survive blows from common revenge killers such as Choice Scarf Krookodile.

 

[Velcroc]

I'm ranking the UR'd guys so we have some semblance of where they stand before the shifts and the ladder goes live.

--> C

I guess this does have a niche as a very specially defensive answer to something like Thundurus or a physically defensive answer to Tapu Bulu, Zarude or Zeraora, so it wouldn't be completely useless. But normally you have a hard time justifying this over Tangrowth and other similarly Bulky Grasses.

--> C

Again, I see niche defensive uses for Cress as a Trick Room setter or a last-ditch pivot into Fightings here. Doesn't pull off either of them that proficiently, though.

--> C+/B-

Nobody has used Ribombee... yet. The presence of key Pokemon immune to Webs like Latias, Hydreigon and Crobat is an issue, which makes it tricky for tour users. I expect this thing to work much better on the ladder since Webs is good at farming points, and we have a few decent abusers of it.

--> C+

This is a cheesy HO pick IMO. The biggest thing holding this back is that it's a fairy type that's worse at answering Dragon types than something like Togekiss. At least CM + Iron Defense sets are somewhat interesting.

--> B-

It's controversial, but I can see myself running this on Psyspam or on very fast-paced offensive teams. Priority is fairly common and it is answered by Pokemon like Hydreigon and Zarude, but it can be pretty scary when faced under the right set of circumstances. If anything, the more disappointing part is that it's outsped by every scarfer at modest and thuds into Mandibuzz and Blissey. However, these limitations don't scream C-rank to me, given what this thing can do to unprepared teams.


--> B-

I theorymonned AV on this as a crazy Thundurus check (technician Icy Wind!), but it would most likely run specially defensive sets with Roost. Fez is in a good spot right now since not many Hydreigon are willing to run Flash Cannon, as they'd like to hit Tinkaton as hard as possible. However, if I'm laddering with Fez, I'm running a secondary drei check too since that flash cannon weakness is brutal. I think B- is a good spot for it, given the things it shares its ranks with and the utility it can offer.

--> B

B might be hard for a Pokemon like Gligar, but its passivity has always held it back. Additionally, competition from Hippowdon and Swampert has effectively phased out defensive Stealth Rocks sets. However, Defog and Spikes, on a slow, Physically Defensive pivot, offer unique niches that few teams can freely pass up.

--> B/B+

I'm putting Ogerpon this high for the utility that Scarf sets bring. Not only do you outspeed common Scarfers like Mienshao, Zarude and Sandy Shocks, but you also force your own pressure with Spikes. Additionally, you have a strong Ivy Cudgel and nice coverage in Superpower, Knock Off, Stomping Tantrum and Play Rough. There's 4MSS, but Scarf Ogerpon is fairly customizable and is a Pokemon better suited to filling cracks rather than being the de facto scarfer.

--> B+

I'm a big K9 believer. Not many things can afford to switch-in to Banded Head Smash or Flare Blitz. That wall-breaking prowess alone elevates it above the B mons and even a few B+ mons. That's all there is to K9, aside from a meh Boots set (I'm bc I built this for NDFL) and a nice scarf set. But as Bruce Lee said "I fear mon that can click one move 1000 times, than a mon that can click 1000 moves once".

--> B+/A-

Still a good Pokemon, although Latias being released into the tier gave it both competition and a check. I think scarf is the best set personally, but Specs and Nasty Plot can put in work once you manage to control the speed.

--> B+

Fighting types look solid in the metagame. Being a fighting type AND checking other fighting types is a nice suite of attributes to have in the metagame. Bulk Up is the better set, but I can see Choice Band putting in work.

--> A

If Crawdaunt can get itself to A-, I think Band Azu should be able to go a bit higher. Without Amoonguss in the tier, Band is harder to slow down. Choice Band sets and Belly Drum sets are both solid and add to the mind games. I've also used AV to stave off Hydreigon and Lati.

--> A-

Bit of a controversial ranking, but Mega Beedrill is a reliable momentum generator in the metagame atm. A standard set of U-turn/Pjab/Drill Run/Knock is all it needs to harass most teams. However, techs like Pursuit and Protect help elevate its game by punishing Psychic Types from switching and scouting scarves (respectively)

--> A-

Steel-type usage is at an all-time high, with Tinkaton and Scizor being common. Zone is able to eliminate it for strong partner Pokemon like Hydreigon and Mega Beedrill, enabling them to be more menacing. Specs and Air Balloon are probably the more consistent options, but you can also run Scarf.

--> A

Best defensive ground in the tier hands down.

--> A+

Very few things really like taking on Specs Hydreigon from the get-go. However, Specs isn't the only thing this can pull. Nasty Plot sets have the potential to act as a strong balance breaker. Defog/Rocks utility sets leverage its excellent typing to switch in on stuff like Slowking, and Scarf can clean games when needed.

--> A+

Utility sets are an option, but nothing can withstand Sword Dance + Flyinium-Z. Banded and Scarf are other options that place immediate pressure on teams (even punishing defensive plays for those anticipating the SD set). It has a centralising presence but is not an S-rank candidate since it's pretty tough to fit on a lot of teams.

-->A+/S-

This is a conservative ranking. Scizor is arguably an S-rank candidate, but a few things hold it back at the moment. Choice Band has been the worst since RU Alpha, but on the other hand, Swords Dance Scizor is still an excellent Pokemon right now, with few Pokemon able to switch into Knock Off. I like Scizor's ability to function as a defensive pivot with reliable recovery, but Tinkaton offers excellent role compression right now, one of the few things that can punish Boh Lati and Drei. A very strong Pokemon overall, but I don't think it has the same metagame presence as the following Pokemon.

--> S+

Although this hasn't been voted on yet, expect tiering action at some point. CM Latias is a centralising offensive threat requiring teams to have at least 2 answers to it. Electrium and Dragonium Z to nuke would-be answers like Slowking and Aggron-Mega, meaning you need to tip-toe around a boosted Lati. Not to mention coverage options in Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire punishing would-be checks like Scizor, Mega Steelix, Tinkaton and Krookodile. I'm not saying there's 0 counterplay, but Latias can potentially overwhelm them, depending on the set.

Other Pokemon:

--> B-

Solid check to Latias and Munkidori and can soft-check Hydreigon. Not a fan of the volt-turn MU though.

--> B

It helps play around many fighting types in the metagame right now. Solid typing for the Hydreigon MU as well. With its performance in recent tours, I think this nom is warranted.

--> B

The qualities that made them good aren't in the same demand atm. Jugulis and Pidgeot Mega face more competition and are burdened by the increasing power level. Azelf could stay B, but I don't like running this over Latias. Even without Latias, Azelf is prone to being revenge by most of the common scarfers.

--> B+

With Drei here, this Pokemon is a lot more justifiable to run.

--> B+
Hail is putting solid results, and I got to give Arctozolt its due. It does struggle with certain scarfers, but it's a pretty scary Pokemon to face when you're not prepped for it.

--> B

Feels weird to drop this when Lati is in the tier, but I've been increasingly disappointed with this Pokemon. If I wanted a pursuit trapper, I'd run Scarf Krook or Band Scizor (depending on the team).

--> A-

Part of why this was ranked so lowly was because we underestimated this thing's coverage or maybe Mega Hera skewed our perspective. Being a fighting type with spammable STABs in U-turn and First Impression are valuable in this metagame. Not to mention that this thing punishes Slowking for being the "de facto" Fighting check.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

I know no tera holds it back, I know its spdef sucks, I know it has no recovery, but are you sure orthworm doesnt have a place in the vr? pretty decent counter to scizor, mega bee, muk-a, actually decent Spikes setter, breaks many offensive combos and a counter to many stuff that dont run fighting- or fire-type coverage. Can run rocky helmet + spikes, double Hazards, ironpress, sand tomb shenaningans, coil iron tail, Can Very Well cover weaknesses of a team imo. Especially considering it is a pseudo steel-flying more viable than bronzong.

 

[Lupla]

I know no tera holds it back, I know its spdef sucks, I know it has no recovery, but are you sure orthworm doesnt have a place in the vr? pretty decent counter to scizor, mega bee, muk-a, actually decent Spikes setter, breaks many offensive combos and a counter to many stuff that dont run fighting- or fire-type coverage. Can run rocky helmet + spikes, double Hazards, ironpress, sand tomb shenaningans, coil iron tail, Can Very Well cover weaknesses of a team imo. Especially considering it is a pseudo steel-flying more viable than bronzong.

The issue with Orthworm is that you it's just outclassed by all of the bulky steels in the tier, mainly M-Aggron and Cobalion, who fulfill the same role but a lot better as they don't have as many exploitable weaknesses.

Orthworm has the basic trades of a bulky steel + more (such as a Ground Immunity and Spikes) but this is far from good due to it's weaknesses of being passive, having a really exploitable SpD stat and being really slow which, for a steel type, isn't really that great. The Pseudo Flying type is also middling when you're still threatened by most Ground types anyway (The Nidos or Sandy Shocks for example) and you still take Spikes damage.

M-Aggron is slow and takes up a mega slot but it's FAR bulkier in both sides and has more than just Body Press to make progress with (better coverage in Fire Punch, a decently strong Heavy Slam and Toxic), Cobalion is a much more threatning presence that also has a good speed tier, compensating the low special defense and neutrality to Psychic and Fairy with other good trades (Like being a really good pivot into physical attackers like Zarude).

I could mention more but i'll limit it to a short saying, Orthworm is not just outclassed but also struggles in fulfilling it's role as a bulky Steel anyway due to lacking the same good trades that makes the others more splashable or fit for the meta.

 

[Runo]

Quaquaval has been banned from NatDex RU!
Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement

Ban Slate

Voters	Quaquaval
Gangsta Spongebob	Do Not Ban
Furret4SSB	ban
Velcroc	dnb
db	ban
Runo	ban
Kinzo Ketchum	Ban
Outcome	Banned

I won't lie to you guys, we've been meaning to ban this since NatDex USA vs RoW ended and now we've finally gotten around to pulling the trigger. Quaquaval being broken is no surprise to the regulars of NatDex RU; on the surface it doesn't seem like a problem but Aqua Step in addition to a powerful Close Combat and Brave Bird can easily wipe out teams. At times there have been staunch comparisons to Gyarados and Salamence with how insanely fast it can snowball with Aqua Step and Moxie boosts.

Below is essentially a list of Pokemon that check it in theory, but ultimately can fail in practice unless they position into it perfectly (this often requires them to switch into Quaquaval when it clicks Swords Dance or to come in off a sack, since chip damage from switching into it can significantly hinder their ability to handle it).

()
Bulky Water-types such as Primarina and Slowking can only respond to Quaquaval if they are running max defense sets, otherwise they threaten to get vaporized by a +2 Supersonic Skystrike. This requirement is "ok" for Slowking (although it would generally like to run special defense to keep Latias and others such as NIhilego and Nidoking at bay), but generally terrible for Primarina since it needs investment into special defense in order to check Latias and Hydreigon easier since that's a major part of its niche. Mantine and Milotic are in a similar boat, where they need to be max defense in order to handle it. However Mantine is exceptionally rare in this tier due to how hard it is to build with for a multitude of reasons like passiveness and competition from other bulky Water- and Flying-types, whereas Milotic is a little more common but doesn't have much to stop Quaquaval aside from fishing for Scald burns and Haze (both of which are essentially forcing a trade because it has to take massive damage from a +2 Close Combat in order to do that). Reminder that all of the aforementioned Pokemon need to be kept at peak condition or they can get removed by +2 Supersonic Skystrike (most of, if not all of, these calcs against them are 80-100%+ damage) as mentioned before. Additionally if Quaquaval has claimed a kill and grabbed a Moxie boost before hand, then they just can't check it at all. Finally the last bulky Water-type, Quagsire, can actually serve as a decent answer to Quaquaval since Unaware blocks the boost from Swords Dance. However it runs into two key problems: The first being that Quagsire only fits well on stall teams so standard playstyles are still sort of left out to dry, the second is that Quagsire really doesn't like dealing with Quaquaval's other sets such as Choice Band and Choice Scarf with the former being able to 2HKO Quagsire with Close Combat and the latter being able to pivot into a partner like Ogerpon or Zarude in order to harass Quagsire and eventually wear it down. Quagsire like a lot of the other Quaquaval "check" also needs to be kept at peak condition in order to answer it properly (Close Combat into Supersonic Skystrike still does heavy damage to it, just narrowly avoiding an OHKO).


Fast defensive checks such as Crobat and Latias can somewhat act as answers, but they are incapable of switching into a +2 Supersonic Skystrike and can get invalidated by Aqua Step's speed boosts. Using these to check Quaquaval means that you have to essentially hard switch into Quaquaval before it sets up with Swords Dance or you lose. Not impossible to do, but sets such as Choice Band makes it really difficult to accept that gamble everytime since Crobat can't switch into a Band Aqua Step while Latias hates taking a Band Knock Off. Set variants to Swords Dance sets, such as Triple Axel instead of Brave Bird, are also a nightmare for Crobat and Latias to handle.

()
Defensive Fairy-types such as Togekiss are kinda decent checks to it but it's important to keep in mind that they are also tasked with dealing with other scary threats, such as Hydreigon and Latias, making it really hard to conserve their health in order to handle Quaquaval since (as said before) it threatens to deal massive amounts of damage after a Swords Dance boost. Two interesting Pokemon to note are Scream Tail and Galarian Weezing. On paper they seem like pretty exceptional checks to Quaquaval but in reality they falter a lot. Scream Tail for instance is faster than and has enough bulk to take a +2 Super Sonic Skystrike, but it is incredibly passive so a healthy Quaquaval can simply shrug off the hit and break it next turn. Galarian Weezing on the other hand has no means of recovery outside of Pain Split, meaning it can't afford to check any of Quaquaval's partners such as Zarude as too much chip results in Galarian Weezing being removed by a +2 Supersonic Skystrike. So Galarian Weezing has to be played very conservatively to a detrimental extent.

()
Now the reason why I'm saving all of these rather bulky Grass-types for last is to really bring the point across that a specifc Quaquaval set is what breaks the tier (Hint: What is a Flying-type 190 BP Z-move after a Swords Dance boost called?). If you somehow couldn't guess it by now, a +2 Supersonic Skystrike from Quaquaval oblierates all of these Grass-types (Brave Bird alone can just wipe these guys off the map), they really have no real response to that move and aren't checks to Quaquaval in the slightest because of that. Roserade can kinda make an attempt if it's an fast utility variant, but if Quaquaval got any Aqua Step boosts before hand then it's game over.
I've mentioned +2 Supersonic Skystrike 8 times including this mention.

Now since the defensive counterplay is pretty terrible, maybe the offensive counterplay is better. Below are a list of offensive checks before and after it gets an Aqua Step boost (spoiler alert: the amount of counterplay changes pretty drastically if it gets a boost).

()
Before an Aqua Step boost, you can clearly see that a lot of fast Flying-, Electric-, Dragon-, and Grass-types are able to pressure Quaquaval. The vast majority of them are capable just outright OHKO Quaquaval from full. That being said, a lot of these checks cannot switch into it at all and need to safely be brought in, which is easier said than done because they no longer become checks is Quaquaval gets a single Aqua Step boost off and outpaces all of them.

()
After Aqua Step, ~50% of the offensive counterplay becomes invalid since they can't effectively handle its rather brutal stab combo in addition to Brave Bird. The remaining counterplay that exists are all Choice Scarf users, Iron Jugulis and Arctozolt. Now luckily these strong speed control options are more than capable of revenge killing it, but if it gets another Aqua Step boost (which it can grab easily while it finishes mauling a defensive check like Crobat or Togekiss) then all hope is practically lost and the only thing that could ever hope to stop it is Ditto which is insanely rare and only fit well on really specific fat and stall teams.

The TL:DR if you don't want to read over 7 paragraphs of info

The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
The opposing Quaquaval used Swords Dance!
The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
The opposing Quaquaval surrounded itself with its Z-Power!
The opposing Quaquaval unleashes its full-force Z-Move!
The opposing Quaquaval used Supersonic Skystrike!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!
The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!
The opposing Quaquaval used Close Combat!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!
The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!
The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

In some other news,

NatDex RU has won the spotlight ladder slot for Feburary! Be sure to play it to your hearts content during the month.

We have also created a dedicated VR team consisting of our current council members and Adriyun, Lupla, and Rafadude, all are pretty competent players and builder and keep up to date with metagame affairs so we felt it was warranted on bringing them on to work with us. Expect a VR update sometime after things settle from Feburary's shifts.

Also unofficially the watch-list is kinda looking like this:

Try these guys out in the near future, tell us your thoughts on them!

 

[Lupla]

NATIONAL DEX RU LADDER IS LIVE
GO PLAY IT

 

[Runo]

VR Update time!

New

Latias: NEW -> S
Scizor: NEW -> S-
Hydreigon: NEW -> A+
Beedrill-Mega: NEW -> A
Hippowdon: NEW -> A
Azumarill: NEW -> A-
Ninetales-Alola: NEW -> A-
Ogerpon: NEW -> A-
Okidogi: NEW -> A-
Arcanine-Hisui: NEW -> B+
Munkidori: NEW -> B+
Gligar: NEW -> B
Magnezone: NEW -> B
Fezandipiti: NEW -> B-
Talonflame: NEW -> B-
Enamorus-Therian: NEW -> C+
Polteageist: NEW -> C+
Ribombee: NEW -> C
Cresselia: NEW -> UR
Dipplin: NEW -> UR

Rise

Slither Wing: B -> A+
Slowking: A -> A+
Tinkaton: A- -> A+
Aggron-Mega: A- -> A
Conkeldurr: A- -> A
Tangrowth: A- -> A
Volcanion: A- -> A
Arctozolt: B -> A-
Empoleon: B+ -> A-
Slowbro-Mega: B+ -> A-
Togekiss: B- -> A-
Absol-Mega: B -> B+
Basculegion-F: B -> B+
Krookodile: B -> B+
Primarina: B -> B+
Registeel: B- -> B
Scream Tail: B- -> B
Milotic: C+ -> B-
Suicune: C+ -> B-
Sylveon: C+ -> B-
Braviary-Hisui: C -> C+
Ditto: C -> C+
Typhlosion-Hisui: C -> C+
Weezing-Galar: C -> C+

Drop

Sandy Shocks: S- -> A
Blissey: A -> A-
Crawdaunt: A- -> B+
Nihilego: A -> B+
Sceptile-Mega: A- -> B+
Azelf: B+ -> B
Houndoom-Mega: A- -> B
Iron Jugulis: B+ -> B
Lycanroc-Dusk: A- -> B
Pidgeot-Mega: B+ -> B
Slowbro-Galar: B -> B-
Zygarde-10%: B -> B-
Bronzong: B- -> C+
Noivern: B- -> C+
Regidrago: B- -> C+
Scolipede: B+ -> C+
Steelix-Mega: B -> C+
Aerodactyl: C+ -> C
Klefki: C+ -> C
Pawmot: C+ -> C
Porygon2: C+ -> C
Raikou: C+ -> C
Rhyperior: B- -> C
Torterra: C+ -> C
Toxtricity: C+ -> C
Araquanid: C -> UR
Arcanine: C -> UR
Articuno: C -> UR
Barbaracle: C -> UR
Basculegion: C+ -> UR
Celebi: C -> UR
Cetitan: C -> UR
Darmanitan: C -> UR
Doublade: C+ -> UR
Durant: C+ -> UR
Espeon: C -> UR
Flamigo: C -> UR
Gardevoir: C -> UR
Glalie-Mega: C -> UR
Guzzlord: C -> UR
Heracross: C -> UR
Iron Thorns: C+ -> UR
Maushold: C -> UR
Oricorio-Pom-Pom: C -> UR
Orthworm: C -> UR
Shuckle: C -> UR
Slurpuff: C+ -> UR
Tatsugiri: C -> UR
Vanilluxe: C -> UR
Venomoth: C -> UR
Wo-Chien: C -> UR

Most Drastic/Important Changes:


Latias' versatility in the tier is just without equal to be honest. Choice Scarf, Specs, Life Orb, and Calm Mind are all fantastic sets and fairly annoying to guess from preview. Calm Mind specificly adds another layer onto this since the mon gets to basically pick and choose it's defensive counterplay with variants like Firium Z to remove Tinkaton and Tapu Bulu, Electrium Z to nuke Slowking, and even rarely Aura Sphere and Alluring Voice to take down Hydreigon and Krookodile without having to use Draco Meteor. Its speed tier and good bulk also makes it quite annoying to take down after it boosts with Calm Mind. Ultimately Latias is a mon that has counterplay but is so good that it just forces you to stack checks to it in order to properly respond to it.


Scizor is just such an elite pivot in the tier and an even more elite Sweeper with Swords Dance. Bulky Swords Dance Scizor with Bullet Punch + Knock Off is just insanely difficult to answer defensively and really limits the amount of offensive checks you can use against it. Ignoring the more egregious things, Scizor is also really valuable defensively since it keeps down a lot of the strong breakers and sweepers (like Tapu Bulu, Mega Beedrill, Arctozolt, etc) with it's good bulk, typing, and strong priotity Bullet Punches.


So Slither Wing is literally just Buzzwole except it just throws defensive value out the window completely. Dangerous to switch into, priority makes it an annoying revenge killer, solid enough speed tier to just obliterate nearly every defensive mon in the tier bar Gligar. Buzzwole leaving the tier means that it's also more free to run Wild Charge so good luck trying to check it with your Crobat or Togekiss.


Snow teams are busted with Arctozolt at the helm since hard checks to Arcozolt just...don't exist in this tier. You're really just limited to using your Choice Scarf user or a priority mon like Conkeldurr and Scizor hoping that you wear it down enough.


Togekiss offers pretty cool role-compression: being a strong answer to Fighting-type breakers like Mienshao, and Okidogi, checking Dragon-types like Latias and Hydreigon, and easily handling the likes of Tapu Bulu, Ogerpon, and Zarude. Its respective Heal Bell, Defog, and Para-spreading roles are also very valuable since combinations such as Heal Bell + Defog allows it to easily check Swampert and Hippowdon while Thunder Wave variants offer a way to shut down all of the above threats in a pinch. Nasty Plot sets are also a very strong balance breaker thanks to it's high bulk and power letting it easily setup and remove threats like Mega Aggron by flinching them to death, very hard for defensive cores to respond to. The classic Choice Scarf sets are also pretty cool to use for even further role-compression and you can even slot Trick in order to shutdown things like Tinkaton and Blissey.


Sandy Shocks being anywhere close to S-rank had to be cope from when Tera was still legal because post-Tera, it just doesn't get the same results. To make it even worse threats such as Hippowdon, Hydreigon, and Latias returning to the tier and mons such as Tangrowth and Swampert getting more popular, there's is just a lot less room for Sandy Shocks to maneuver in this tier.


These guys suffer from "Scizor-existing Syndrome". They are sweepers that just can't respond well to it in the slightest. Lycanroc-Dusk and I guess Scolipede you can kinda make a case for since they can be really scary with their power and coverage after they setup, and Nihilego can too! Except for the fact that it specifically is stonewalled by most of the common steel-types, gets felled by priority users in Azumarill, Conkeldurr, and Scizor, and is heavilly annoyed by special walls like Slowking and Blissey


At this point, Mega Houndoom Bulky Offenses have become irrelevant thanks to Hydreigon existing, so now it's only really seen on Hyper Offense teams. It's STAB combo is kinda better (I think) and it's faster than Latias, but the weakness to Stealth Rock is crippling. It's also kinda just really frail and the typing doesn't help much defensively in the metagame so it's hard to setup on things like Hippowdon or even things like Slither Wing (First Impression just OHKOes it lol).


Yeah these two are kinda weird ground-types. The role compression they offer is really specific to the point where a lot of the times you are better off using another mon. Mega Steelix for instance is kinda incapable of hard checking a single mon in the A-ranks bar like Arctozolt or Crobat, but hey that typing comes in handy when you have to deal with Nihilego and Necrozma I guess. And it's a Steel-type that doesn't insta-lose to Magnezone. Rhyperior checks even less than Mega Steelix and is pressured by even more threats, namely SD Scizor, Slither Wing, Tapu Bulu, Slowking, Conkeldurr, etc. And the things it should be checking in theory (i.e Electric-types) can easily carry coverage to neutralize it.

:Every C/C+ mon that got unranked:
No clue what the hell was going on with the last two VRs when we got to the C-ranks but this time we had an interesting sitdown and significantly cut the size of C-rank. Long story short: the mons that got removed are all memes and rarely do anything of value anymore. I would type out why each unmon is terrible but the final draft would probably end up being longer than the rest of the post (maybe when I have time later, someone remind me). Anyways sorry @GuzzlordFan93

 

[Velcroc]

Usage for March is out. Let's take a look at the stats!

Hippowdon moved from NDRU to NDUU
Hydreigon moved from NDRU to NDUU
Latias moved from NDRU to NDUU
Magnezone moved from NDRU to NDUU
Scizor moved from NDRU to NDUU

Altaria-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Gallade-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Goodra-Hisui moved from NDUU to NDRU
Metagross moved from NDUU to NDRU
Pecharunt moved from NDUU to NDRU
Torkoal moved from NDUU to NDRU
Tyranitar moved from NDUU to NDRU

Good news is that we got Metagross back. Not that it was a particularly good Pokemon here. I guess Scizor, Latias and Hydreigon rising is a blessing in disguise. Magnezone rose because Scizor rose.

The two Pokemon I'm most worried about are Tyranitar and Pecharunt. Both of them can be long-term issues. Band Ttar Knock-Off has very few switch-ins, and it pursues Slowking and frees up all the crazy fighting types here. Pecharunt is an interesting Pokemon here as I do think that Malignant Chain + Hex can break the tier with Nasty Plot. Still, at the same time, it is a valuable mon into ALL the Fighting types here thanks to that beautiful typing (though it fears Future Sight). I do see the value in keeping this long-term, however.
Expect many Tyranitar + Slowking + [INSERT FIGHTING TYPE] cores here.

As for the other drops, Hisui Goodra is good for defence. Torkoal is not worth it because Drought is banned.

Those are my brief thoughts on the drops, let me know if you guys have any comments on these metagame changes

 

[Big Chungus irl]

Alright, time to throw my hat in the ring. Stall is not just viable, it is downright great in this meta, and multiple of it's potential mons are not included on the VRs. I got to second on the ladder exclusively spamming a single stall team, and only didn't go for first because of the extreme ladder wait times. I would like to nominate the following mons to be included on the VRs


How is this one not on here? It's pretty much the only viable Unaware user on the block, and with it's ability to spike and recover it is very much viable on stall.

--> C+

An Alternative wishing wall to Scream tail, what it lacks in HP and physical defence it makes up for in it's monstrous special defence, better defensive typing and better movepool, including options like toxic and defog, both of which are immensely useful on a stall team.

--> B-

A great Defesive water type with reliable recovery that comes with the added benefit of defog and water absorb, next to the obligatory scald. Mantine posesses a powerful defensive profile that lets it defog and scald many times during a game, fishing for scald burns. Mantine also gets great use out of it's secondary STAB in hurricane, as it has natural synergy with defog, this allows mantine to whittle down many prospective breakers that wish to kill it and it's team. This means that it provides a way to deal some actual damage while not letting down the stall team defensively.

--> C+

And Finally, Umbreon, this one, while present on the VRs, is in my opinion simply ranked too low, it provides superb support for both bulkier balance and stall teams, with both wish and heal bell being great options, and STAB foul play ensuring that it is not simply a passive, do-nothing pokemon, being able to counter many physical attackers present in the tier.

--> B

Thank you for listening and I hope everyone has a great day.

 

[Juiceinthebag]

New month means new tier shifts lets take a look at some relevant calcs

Joke aside i'm really excited to see how round 4 of the tour and the tier as a whole develops with these new mons legal!
Gastro gives us another great role compressor (specifically another good spike user) and a water/ground with reliable recovery
Latias has basically the same role and concerns as before (With ttar down here now it's situation is worse, but its still a nightmare in the builder)
Enamorous looks really great for both speed and breaking power. Scarf outspeeds everything relevant, can be physical or special depending on your structure, and makes practically every other fairy obsolete on more offensive builds. Non setup variants have their checks, but I can see its set variety making it overwhelming down here without more steel options like scizor or magneton.
I have no clue what golispod really does down here yet but any extra priority option in the tier is nice.
Two mons expand the tier and the other two break it (unban mamoswine to check them and then break the tier even more please )

 

[about15gals]

been playing the tier for ssnl for a bit now
to A-/A
this mon is so insane, it's insanely bulky, easily able to sponge a hit from scarf krook from full, and has a really good matchup spread due to its typing. I've only really used nplot z sets, i think parting shot pivots are mid and empoleon is better for that (also why does the sample team with it have speed evs if its a pivot) but nplot z is able to set up on a lot of mons in the tier and fire off its insanely powerful neverending nightmare. tox rng is also an x factor in a lot of matches, and can cheese games pretty easily. A might be a bit much but with how much work it's been putting in lately in my ssnl games I think it needs a little love

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

Hey everyone, I'm here to make a big announcement. I'm stepping down as Nat Dex RU Tier Leader, with Runo taking my place.

In general I've just been increasingly inactive. Other obligations on Smogon, University work, people trying to break into my apartment, and a job have been taking away more and more of my time, preventing me from being the leader this tier deserves. Runo has been a great presence in Nat Dex RU, already being Council, so I have no doubts that he'll be a great Tier Leader.

Honestly, it feels a bit weird stepping down. I found Nat Dex RU, and really got involved with Smogon as a whole, when I saw an r/stunfisk post in late 2020. It's hard to imagine that a single post I could've easily missed would lead me to where I am today. Shortly afterwards, I became Tier Leader after the original leadership lost interest, so since November 2020, barring a break or two, I've been NDRU Tier Leader ever since.

I can't say everything was sunshine and daisies with me in charge. This was the first time I had ever got any sort of leadership role on the internet, so it was hard navigating through the various hurdles that came by, many of which were entirely my fault. However, throughout my time as TL I also met many great people, who I remain good friends with to this day. What I mean to day is thank you everyone, for making my time in Nat Dex RU amazing.

Now, this isn't goodbye forever. I'm still going to be around, and I'll always be here to help my friends if needed. However, this is the end of my leadership of Nat Dex RU, so once again I thank everyone for being with me, throughout NDRU's highs and lows.

 

[Adriyun]

Hey everyone, I'm here to make a big announcement. I'm stepping down as Nat Dex RU Tier Leader, with Runo taking my place.

In general I've just been increasingly inactive. Other obligations on Smogon, University work, people trying to break into my apartment, and a job have been taking away more and more of my time, preventing me from being the leader this tier deserves. Runo has been a great presence in Nat Dex RU, already being Council, so I have no doubts that he'll be a great Tier Leader.

Honestly, it feels a bit weird stepping down. I found Nat Dex RU, and really got involved with Smogon as a whole, when I saw an r/stunfisk post in late 2020. It's hard to imagine that a single post I could've easily missed would lead me to where I am today. Shortly afterwards, I became Tier Leader after the original leadership lost interest, so since November 2020, barring a break or two, I've been NDRU Tier Leader ever since.

I can't say everything was sunshine and daisies with me in charge. This was the first time I had ever got any sort of leadership role on the internet, so it was hard navigating through the various hurdles that came by, many of which were entirely my fault. However, throughout my time as TL I also met many great people, who I remain good friends with to this day. What I mean to day is thank you everyone, for making my time in Nat Dex RU amazing.

Now, this isn't goodbye forever. I'm still going to be around, and I'll always be here to help my friends if needed. However, this is the end of my leadership of Nat Dex RU, so once again I thank everyone for being with me, throughout NDRU's highs and lows.

yapper alert much.? ily.. :(.

 

[Runo]

Following a survey we conducted we decided to vote on our more controversial threats (scored a 3 or higher on the survey). Here are the results.

Furret4ssb has left council due to inactivity


With that, Enamorus has been banned from NatDex RU!
dhelmise and Marty please implement this in the builder thank you.

Enamorus has a ton of options to break the tier with sets such as Choice Specs and Calm Mind being insanely good at breaking open defensive cores like Tinkaton + Slowking with its strong coverage options, but the set that has everyone's concern recently is the all too potent Mixed Superpower sets which bypasses the typical Enamorus counterplay such as Rotom-Heat and Blissey while still being just as threatening to most teams defensive cores to the point where less common defensive checks such as Crobat and Talonflame are shoehorned onto teams for the most part despite not being that great in the metagame (additionally Enamorus can remove the former by running Psychic). Although Enamorus also has mons that can easily revenge kill it such as Zeraora and Thundurus, there is way too much emphasis on the "revenge" part since most if not all of them are incapable of switching into Enamorus without taking massive damage from Moonblast or its other coverage options. In conclusion free Amoonguss, Scizor, and Moltres (maybe not Scizor but the other ones lets discuss this @NatDex Ladders >_<).

Q: What about Latias and Slither Wing?

Latias is still probably at the top of our list of controversial mons but Enamorus and Tyranitar's presence in the tier (not to mention upticks in Empoleon, Metagross, Special Defensive Slowking, Bronzong, etc) forces Latias to more or less adapt its sets in order to survive. A key example of this is Latias's Calm Mind sets being more inclined to run Aura Sphere instead of Mystical Fire and also dropping either Roost or Draco Meteor in order to stand up to Tyranitar and Enamorus respective and changes like that causes ripples in the metagame (such as Tinkaton and Tapu Bulu suddenly becoming stronger checks to Latias). So we are going to kick the can down the road again and see how it fares in a post Enamorus landscape.


Slither Wing is another mon that is a victim of recent metagame trends since its powerful Close Combats and First Impressions aren't as spammable anymore with threats such as Enamorus dropping and Gligar, Crobat, and Talonflame being more common place. Additionally its slow speed and general lack of longevity makes it compete with Mienshao and Conkeldurr more than usual. Also its generally pretty frustrating to get in with threats such as Tangrowth, Tinkaton, and Tyranitar being able to cripple it with Knock Off or status if using Slowking, Gastrodon, etc. It's still a powerful mon here but generally there is a lot more room to manuver around its raw power. Similar to Latias we'd like to see how Slither Wing responds to a post Enamorus metagame before deciding on it.

I will post the actual survey results sometime later, IRL stuff is killing me as of late but that probably solves itself in a 2-3 weeks.

 

[Runo]

Last month was an interesting scene for NatDex RU with nice metagame insights from Seasonal and MSPL, and your fantastic council has brought those back to share for a VR Update.

VR Update changes:

New

NEW -> A-
NEW -> A+
NEW -> A+
NEW -> A+
NEW -> B+
NEW -> C+
NEW -> UR
NEW -> UR

Rises

A+ -> S-
A- -> A
B+ -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C

Drops

A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
A- -> C+
B -> C+
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

Not gonna bother with explanations this time since there's a bit too much to cover and I'm short for time this week. Feel free to ask questions here or in the discord.

Also Adriyun has joined council fully.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Am curious as to Fezandipiti's viability here. It is only mid B but I'm still wondering.

Was gonna say Metagross too but it got better moves this gen including Knock and buffed STABs so that one's more clear.

Edit: Also Golisopod's lack of viability. I'd like that explained too.

 

[Adriyun]

Am curious as to Fezandipiti's viability here. It is only mid B but I'm still wondering.

Was gonna say Metagross too but it got better moves this gen including Knock and buffed STABs so that one's more clear.

Edit: Also Golisopod's lack of viability. I'd like that explained too.

ok hi!! i’m here to explain.
The reason Fez is Mid B is because it’s a good “counter/switch in” to most fighting types, it’s poison/fairy typing allows it to switch in Easily on Mienshao and slither wing. It also switches into pokémon like Mega Sceptile Zarude Etc. This gives it a pretty good niche, the reason it isn’t higher is because offensively it isn’t threatening and gets threatened/taken advantage of by pokémon like Slowking/Tinkaton/Gligar Letting them set up/clear hazards/pivot/knock off
It’s defensive utility is good enough to give it a spot in B

Golisopod’s lack of viability comes down to it just being outclassed/not as good. it has a strong first impression alongside knock off, spikes, and a good water typing, but.. if you want an offensive spiker you’d go for ogerpon/sandy shocks or diggersby. As a revenge killer It is severely and utterly outclassed by slither wing, who has the same stab first impression, u-turn and a strong fighting stab. Golisopod just isn’t bulky or has the longevity to do much along side it’s ability. It just doesn’t compete with meta too well.
hoped this helped :D

 

[Lupla]

Good morning everyone (since i'm writing this at 6-7 am) i'm here to discuss a bit on the recent Viabilty Rakings update (as some of you know i was gonna be making this after my ND UUbers post) so here we go with what i'd say are the more relevant ones but first of gz to Adriyun for council!



Here we have what's basically THE THREAT that, despite a generation later, still proves to be not just excellent but potentially ban worthy once again. Mienshao just has everything going for it and repeats it's cycle of dominance with Choice Scarf and Life Orb sets (last one in particular being considered unwallable and beating defensive checks long term), it's only the surroundings that change yet it still remains as either the best pivot in the tier or one of the best wallbreakers in the tier. This is really a mostly flawless mon, only worrying about is bulk but even with both new faceslike Pecharunt, Latias, Slowking, Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, M-Manectric, the old faces of Gligar, Zeraora, Crobat and Togekiss don't slow it down even a single bit which is even more impressive given how much competition it had through the entire history of the tier.



So the thing about Latias that makes it really different from how it was in February is not just the fact that we don't have things like Hydreigon or Scizor which is a significant change that makes building agaisn't it easier but also the fact Tyranitar exists now. The presence of the ND UU King's base form pretty much mandates Latias to run Fightinium Z in most CM sets as it's otherwise completely trapped by it, not only that but this also makes it a lot less flexible despite the possibility of other sets as most of what used to check it like Tinkaton or Slowking are perfectly fine when paired with Tyranitar, having Pecharunt in the tier also doesn't help it since it also annoys non-Psyshock variants while increasing the use of Tyranitar even more. Preparing for it has become a lot easier but that doesn't really kick Latias out of the metagame or anything, it's still the (somewhat) unpredictable threat with CM sets but it's just a lot more restricted with options compared to before where you could just go with any variant and don't care about anything.



I'll be honest, i could be wrong with this take but i don't really see Tyranitar overwhelming these days (at least on the level from before) which is somewhat interesting considering Hippowdon left at the same time it dropped into this tier. It's exclusively Choice Band sets here as Dragon Dance sets are too slow and easily revenge killed by most fighters, Ogerpon, Zarude, Zeraora and most of the speed control available while any other variant is likely to be just a gimmick (AV lmao). But it's not really that bad as nothing really switches in safely considering how most Fighters and Tinkaton get trashed by Earthquake (While Slither doesn't even resist Rock). It kind of creates a Rock, Paper, Scissors dynamic of the Fighter checks (Slowking, Latias and Pecharunt), Tyranitar itself and the Fighters themselves (Mienshao, Slither Wing and Conkeldurr) which i think keeps things interesting.



Am i forced to say good things about Pecharunt? No i am not because this thing is actually great. Good Ghosts types are a rarity in most tiers, you usually have a good one then the rest are extremely niche (unless we talk about OU's lack of top tier ghosts as that tier is cursed with either broken or mid) and Pecharunt is one of the rare gems around, serving as one of the best checks to the top 3 Fighters in Mienshao, Slither Wing and Conkeldurr with it's immunities, resistances and excellent bulk it's able to deal with them reliably as long as the user isn't switching into knock offs all day with hazards up or if Tyranitar is present. It's also a decent threat on it's own as the only things that aren't troubled by Malignent Chain are Steel types like Tinkaton which give it an opportunity to setup Nasty Plots and nuke anything with Ghostium Z (ignoring Encore as well). It does have a few common weaknesses and it can be difficult to deal with hazards at times but what it offers to teams is really valuable.


This is a big raise altho a part of me tells me that this is likely to change depending on how things go from now on. H-Arcanine is the one reason you'd drop Tyranitar on teams (or even pair with it if you feel that crazy but that's not recommended) as it's a much more threatning wallbreaker that trades bulk and longevity for not just better damage but also a usable speed stat which notably allows it to easily force things that Ttar wouldn't be able to without taking much in return or flat out dying like Slither Wing, Tinkaton, Tapu Bulu or Volcanion. Unfortunately this also comes at the cost of reliability, the lack of bulk and weakness to rocks really hinders it and despite having an improved speed tier compared to Tyranitar, it still falls short to most things as most of the crowded speed tiers are around 100-110, it's also noteworthy that Gastrodon returned to the tier which is a massive roadblock to it that could get really popular. I did vote this to A- but i may just drop it next time if things get worse for it (and that's likely the case).


Honorable Mentions (i am so original i keep doing this everytime):

: This has the chance to be a good offensive rocker as it has really good targets to force out (Latias, Pecharunt and Tyranitar) but other than those three it kinda fumbles with most things and doesn't really have much else going for it.

: Gastrodon seems really promising in this meta, any variant just puts in some work and has a lot of things Swampert lacks like Spikes, Recover and Clear Smog. On the other hand Swampert is probably gonna be relegated to BO now.

and more c tiers: The amount of things lurking in VR was too much, the purge was necessary.

rip bozo lmao

 

[Velcroc]

Let's kickstart this thread and go through the June Usage Stats.

National Dex UU (1630 stats)

Combined usage for National Dex UU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Skarmory           | 25.938% |
| 2    | Ting-Lu            | 23.333% |
| 3    | Aegislash          | 22.935% |
| 4    | Rotom-Wash         | 22.344% |
| 5    | Excadrill          | 20.970% |
| 6    | Iron Moth          | 18.382% |
| 7    | Clefable           | 18.223% |
| 8    | Tyranitar-Mega     | 16.990% |
| 9    | Celesteela         | 15.937% |
| 10   | Iron Boulder       | 13.134% |
| 11   | Venusaur-Mega      | 12.865% |
| 12   | Zapdos-Galar       | 12.796% |
| 13   | Hippowdon          | 10.160% |
| 14   | Iron Hands         | 10.121% |
| 15   | Greninja           | 10.086% |
| 16   | Tapu Fini          |  9.623% |
| 17   | Chansey            |  9.375% |
| 18   | Keldeo             |  9.335% |
| 19   | Hydreigon          |  8.930% |
| 20   | Victini            |  8.760% |
| 21   | Sableye-Mega       |  8.565% |
| 22   | Alakazam           |  8.348% |
| 23   | Amoonguss          |  8.116% |
| 24   | Scizor             |  7.757% |
| 25   | Beedrill-Mega      |  7.602% |
| 26   | Gardevoir-Mega     |  7.565% |
| 27   | Azumarill          |  7.421% |
| 28   | Skeledirge         |  7.310% |
| 29   | Magnezone          |  7.030% |
| 30   | Slowbro            |  6.559% |
| 31   | Quaquaval          |  6.476% |
| 32   | Hydrapple          |  6.001% |
| 33   | Kleavor            |  5.657% |
| 34   | Buzzwole           |  5.383% |
| 35   | Goodra-Hisui       |  5.215% |
| 36   | Dracozolt          |  5.174% |
| 37   | Latias-Mega        |  5.059% |
| 38   | Quagsire           |  4.818% |
| 39   | Bisharp            |  4.733% |
| 40   | Aerodactyl-Mega    |  4.594% |
| 41   | Blacephalon        |  4.411% |
| 42   | Sinistcha          |  4.174% |
| 43   | Enamorus           |  3.842% |
| 44   | Gastrodon          |  3.620% |
| 45   | Iron Leaves        |  3.498% |
| 46   | Hawlucha           |  3.453% |
| 47   | Zoroark-Hisui      |  3.411% |
| 48   | Blissey            |  3.195% |
| 49   | Haxorus            |  2.893% |
| 50   | Zeraora            |  2.819% |
| 51   | Slowking           |  2.680% |
| 52   | Altaria-Mega       |  2.678% |
| 53   | Latias             |  2.677% |
| 54   | Mew                |  2.633% |
| 55   | Ribombee           |  2.515% |
| 56   | Mandibuzz          |  2.387% |
| 57   | Heracross-Mega     |  2.333% |
| 58   | Smeargle           |  2.226% |
| 59   | Gallade-Mega       |  2.186% |
| 60   | Tangrowth          |  2.119% |
| 61   | Tyranitar          |  2.101% |
| 62   | Empoleon           |  2.025% |
| 63   | Salamence          |  1.948% |
| 64   | Tapu Bulu          |  1.895% |
| 65   | Jirachi            |  1.849% |
| 66   | Pecharunt          |  1.821% |
| 67   | Arcanine-Hisui     |  1.653% |
| 68   | Gengar             |  1.548% |
| 69   | Golisopod          |  1.506% |
| 70   | Tentacruel         |  1.467% |
| 71   | Galvantula         |  1.462% |
| 72   | Nidoking           |  1.307% |
| 73   | Swampert-Mega      |  1.293% |
| 74   | Ogerpon            |  1.288% |
| 75   | Aggron-Mega        |  1.285% |
| 76   | Sandy Shocks       |  1.271% |
| 77   | Volcanion          |  1.239% |
| 78   | Conkeldurr         |  1.180% |
| 79   | Swampert           |  1.147% |
| 80   | Thundurus          |  1.114% |
| 81   | Porygon-Z          |  1.103% |
| 82   | Lokix              |  1.100% |
| 83   | Deoxys-Defense     |  1.065% |
| 84   | Pincurchin         |  1.057% |
| 85   | Araquanid          |  1.046% |
| 86   | Mienshao           |  1.008% |
| 87   | Darmanitan         |  1.002% |
| 88   | Zygarde-10%        |  0.976% |
| 89   | Breloom            |  0.954% |
| 90   | Terrakion          |  0.954% |
| 91   | Naclstack          |  0.927% |
| 92   | Indeedee           |  0.908% |
| 93   | Shuckle            |  0.876% |
| 94   | Donphan            |  0.874% |
| 95   | Reuniclus          |  0.868% |
| 96   | Camerupt-Mega      |  0.847% |
| 97   | Mamoswine          |  0.845% |
| 98   | Corsola-Galar      |  0.835% |
| 99   | Forretress         |  0.825% |
| 100  | Gorebyss           |  0.821% |
| 101  | Whimsicott         |  0.819% |
| 102  | Hattrem            |  0.816% |
| 103  | Sharpedo-Mega      |  0.812% |
| 104  | Moltres-Galar      |  0.784% |
| 105  | Audino-Mega        |  0.784% |
| 106  | Umbreon            |  0.753% |
| 107  | Gligar             |  0.746% |
| 108  | Pidgeot-Mega       |  0.744% |
| 109  | Ninetales-Alola    |  0.730% |
| 110  | Absol-Mega         |  0.727% |
| 111  | Cyclizar           |  0.727% |
| 112  | Mimikyu            |  0.699% |
| 113  | Bellossom          |  0.696% |
| 114  | Crobat             |  0.693% |
| 115  | Arctozolt          |  0.666% |
| 116  | Pyukumuku          |  0.649% |
| 117  | Incineroar         |  0.649% |
| 118  | Diggersby          |  0.647% |
| 119  | Cresselia          |  0.627% |
| 120  | Marowak-Alola      |  0.617% |
| 121  | Infernape          |  0.611% |
| 122  | Durant             |  0.607% |
| 123  | Espeon             |  0.600% |
| 124  | Cacturne           |  0.575% |
| 125  | Grimmsnarl         |  0.572% |
| 126  | Nihilego           |  0.569% |
| 127  | Hoopa              |  0.566% |
| 128  | Azelf              |  0.562% |
| 129  | Cloyster           |  0.557% |
| 130  | Primarina          |  0.545% |
| 131  | Klefki             |  0.524% |
| 132  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.514% |
| 133  | Suicune            |  0.504% |
| 134  | Tinkaton           |  0.503% |
| 135  | Entei              |  0.499% |
| 136  | Krookodile         |  0.499% |
| 137  | Eelektross         |  0.498% |
| 138  | Revavroom          |  0.489% |
| 139  | Polteageist        |  0.477% |
| 140  | Manectric-Mega     |  0.464% |
| 141  | Stakataka          |  0.464% |
| 142  | Zarude             |  0.461% |
| 143  | Talonflame         |  0.457% |
| 144  | Togekiss           |  0.441% |
| 145  | Lilligant-Hisui    |  0.426% |
| 146  | Porygon2           |  0.407% |
| 147  | Sceptile-Mega      |  0.406% |
| 148  | Scolipede          |  0.402% |
| 149  | Iron Jugulis       |  0.402% |
| 150  | Abomasnow-Mega     |  0.397% |
| 151  | Cradily            |  0.392% |
| 152  | Fezandipiti        |  0.389% |
| 153  | Dhelmise           |  0.389% |
| 154  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.385% |
| 155  | Slowbro-Mega       |  0.382% |
| 156  | Torterra           |  0.382% |
| 157  | Glalie-Mega        |  0.375% |
| 158  | Pawmot             |  0.372% |
| 159  | Armarouge          |  0.372% |
| 160  | Tornadus           |  0.364% |
| 161  | Brambleghast       |  0.362% |
| 162  | Shiftry            |  0.354% |
| 163  | Ampharos           |  0.351% |
| 164  | Crawdaunt          |  0.350% |
| 165  | Exploud            |  0.348% |
| 166  | Seismitoad         |  0.344% |
| 167  | Steelix-Mega       |  0.343% |
| 168  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.342% |
| 169  | Hitmonlee          |  0.339% |
| 170  | Blastoise          |  0.337% |
| 171  | Houndoom-Mega      |  0.335% |
| 172  | Basculegion        |  0.334% |
| 173  | Honchkrow          |  0.334% |
| 174  | Audino             |  0.332% |
| 175  | Hitmontop          |  0.332% |
| 176  | Milotic            |  0.325% |
| 177  | Gallade            |  0.325% |
| 178  | Ditto              |  0.320% |
| 179  | Chandelure         |  0.318% |
| 180  | Vaporeon           |  0.307% |
| 181  | Decidueye-Hisui    |  0.304% |
| 182  | Sylveon            |  0.301% |
| 183  | Cinccino           |  0.298% |
| 184  | Exeggutor-Alola    |  0.298% |
| 185  | Arctovish          |  0.277% |
| 186  | Gardevoir          |  0.275% |
| 187  | Okidogi            |  0.273% |
| 188  | Aggron             |  0.269% |
| 189  | Xatu               |  0.261% |
| 190  | Obstagoon          |  0.255% |
| 191  | Slurpuff           |  0.249% |
| 192  | Kabutops           |  0.244% |
| 193  | Gigalith           |  0.243% |
| 194  | Decidueye          |  0.239% |
| 195  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.236% |
| 196  | Solrock            |  0.231% |
| 197  | Necrozma           |  0.229% |
| 198  | Comfey             |  0.224% |
| 199  | Doublade           |  0.213% |
| 200  | Tyrantrum          |  0.211% |
| 201  | Feraligatr         |  0.208% |
| 202  | Raikou             |  0.205% |
| 203  | Electabuzz         |  0.201% |
| 204  | Braviary-Hisui     |  0.200% |
| 205  | Ninjask            |  0.199% |
| 206  | Lurantis           |  0.199% |
| 207  | Toedscruel         |  0.198% |
| 208  | Starmie            |  0.195% |
| 209  | Archeops           |  0.192% |
| 210  | Charizard          |  0.191% |
| 211  | Scrafty            |  0.188% |
| 212  | Ampharos-Mega      |  0.187% |
| 213  | Jolteon            |  0.186% |
| 214  | Stoutland          |  0.185% |
| 215  | Sigilyph           |  0.176% |
| 216  | Metagross          |  0.171% |
| 217  | Houndoom           |  0.170% |
| 218  | Arboliva           |  0.170% |
| 219  | Tsareena           |  0.167% |
| 220  | Arcanine           |  0.166% |
| 221  | Cobalion           |  0.159% |
| 222  | Druddigon          |  0.157% |
| 223  | Mr. Rime           |  0.157% |
| 224  | Dusclops           |  0.154% |
| 225  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.153% |
| 226  | Goodra             |  0.151% |
| 227  | Grafaiai           |  0.150% |
| 228  | Staraptor          |  0.147% |
| 229  | Mareanie           |  0.144% |
| 230  | Sableye            |  0.144% |
| 231  | Frosmoth           |  0.142% |
| 232  | Maushold           |  0.141% |
| 233  | Jellicent          |  0.139% |
| 234  | Flygon             |  0.136% |
| 235  | Basculegion-F      |  0.132% |
| 236  | Barraskewda        |  0.132% |
| 237  | Vikavolt           |  0.131% |
| 238  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.128% |
| 239  | Celebi             |  0.126% |
| 240  | Florges            |  0.124% |
| 241  | Regirock           |  0.124% |
| 242  | Cetitan            |  0.119% |
| 243  | Braviary           |  0.118% |
| 244  | Turtonator         |  0.115% |
| 245  | Heracross          |  0.112% |
| 246  | Muk-Alola          |  0.111% |
| 247  | Drampa             |  0.107% |
| 248  | Machamp            |  0.106% |
| 249  | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.105% |
| 250  | Bellibolt          |  0.102% |
| 251  | Munkidori          |  0.102% |
| 252  | Glaceon            |  0.102% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

Drops


Would-Be Drops

Haxorus would have dropped from NDUU to NDRU
Sinistcha would have dropped from NDUU to NDRU




We're only holding onto this for a month, but I reckon this thing will make waves. Excellent Tyranitar check that can easily fit moves like roar for Pecharunt. The only real drawback to this thing defensively is that it lacks reliable recovery outside of rest. Maybe something like Rocks / Scald or Flip Turn / EQ / Rest could work ala gen 6 UU. The only real flaw with this set is that it competes for a slot with Swampert which can run Leftovers or Boots.

Offensive Rain Dance with Waterfall / EQ / Ice Punch is another set that is being theorized. I think this set is a bit too specific and I'm not sure how I feel about the Water and Ground type slot sticking in the back for most of the game. Still, I think this set will catch quite a few teams off guard and is nice for Hyper Offense since Mega Pert can easily tank a hit from many HO sweepers and retaliate, especially in the late game where everything is chipped. Another niche option could be a Bulk Up set although that doesn't particularly like all the Grass types here.

Fun Fact: Mega Swampert, Swampert, Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Seismitoad are all viable here. This combined with Latias and Gligar being here makes being a Special Attacking Electric difficult.



We've had a metagame without Haxorus metagame for so long, so seeing this thing almost drop back down is a weird feeling. I can only see Haxorus staying in this tier so long as there is a faster Dragon-type than it that can run Scarf. I think the January metagame would have been the best time for this to make its return as Hydreigon and Latias were both in the tier and would have kept it under the ropes. With Hydreigon in UU, and Latias's position looking tenuous in the future (since Tyranitar is likely to rise the month after OU picks up Mega Tyranitar), I'm not sure if this thing will be sustainable in the tier for the long run.



On the one hand, this is Pecharunt with worse defensive typing. However, being naturally stronger and having multiple avenues for recovery (including Strength Sap) I can see this thing being at least good in the tier. Heatproof in particular is annoying as with Ghostium/Grassium Z you effectively lose two weaknesses in Fire and Physical Dark types (aka all of them bar Mega Doom and Jugulis). Another nice thing about Sinistcha is that it does provide another Tapu Bulu/Water-type/Electric check which is cool, and I do appreciate its ability to pivot into Fighting-types and Ground-types. The one thing I fear is this Pokemon being broken in the tier with high physical defense and its Calm Mind antics but that's hard to confirm in a vacuum.


Wishlist for the coming months:

• Please keep this thing here. Losing this means losing Latias and soon enough the dominoes will start falling with stuff like Pecharunt, Mienshao, and Slither Wing coming under the radar.
• Much better here than in UU. At least here, it's a good fighting check and has valuable pivoting support. In UU, it's a poor man's Mega Venusaur. This is slightly ambitious since Amoong is actually on an uptick in UU, but it would be cool to have
• If Amoong drops, this should be fine. A cool breaker that can occasionally don the Assault Vest to work as a nice make-shift Lati answer.
• Ting-Lu is back so I anticipate this to drop soon. Keeps physical attackers (especially ttar) in line. Nice wall with recovery. Free the mans
• This thing sucks in UU, but could be nice in RU. I've mellowed out on this mon since its presence naturally strains hazard removal, a bad, bad thing, but having it here helps make revenge killing a lot easier.
• It doesn't trap that many more steels here than UU (it doesn't trap a whole lot in UU matter of fact) but Zone is more flexible here. Nice Bulu check and if it's not magnet-pulling it could be a decent analytic breaker.
• this is a pipe dream. If both of these mons come back (and stay), we might see a lot of RUBL mons drop.
• Worst mon in UU atm. This mon was freed on the NDRU ladder and it was such a cool mon. Having something naturally faster than Latias helps keep Calm Mind sets in check, and its good speed tier lets it get the jump on other dangerous threats such as Zeraora and Thundurus. The attacking stat is crazy but it's fairly easy to keep it in line with Pokemon like Mega Aggron, Mega Steelix, Talonflame, and Crobat, and it does have notable drawbacks: being high maintenance and taking up the mega slot.
• Goat RU mons but it's unlikely they fall out of OU, let alone drop to RU. Not putting Mega Banette here since I'm indifferent to it being RU.

 

[Adriyun]

Pecharunt has been banned from National Dex RU!

Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement

Ban Slate

Since Pecharunt dropped down to National Dex RU, it has been considered a premier defensive and offensive threat. Equipped with a Ghostium Z, it annihilated its checks like Tinkaton, Gastrodon, and perform better into Calm Mind Latias along with beating physical threats like Mienshao, Conkeldurr, and Slither Wing. Disruption with Malignant Chain was a reliable option to mess with and potentially beat its checks such as Blissey, Tyranitar, and Mandibuzz. With its decent defensive typing, gargantuan physical bulk being able to take super effective hits well with not too much concern along with its decent Speed tier to set up and disrupt and sweep teams. For example, it outsped Timid Nidoking and below while being able to threaten it with a boosted Ghostium Z. Its best counterplay option, Tyranitar, couldn't even reliably beat it over the course of a game, having to deal with confusion and poison from Poison Puppeteer. Knock Off from it couldn't even worry it because, as its been mentioned quite a bit, Pecharunt often ran Ghostium Z. Alternative sets like Heavy-Duty Boots or Black Sludge with more Defense investment were used to stonewall physical threats and be a decent pivot as well, but it wasn't as game breaking as Ghositium Z was. Overall, Pecharunt was way too consistent and crossed the borderline of being centralizing, and as such, it is banned from National Dex RU.

 

[Runo]

Wowzers it didn't take ages for another NDRU post to drop this time!

Ok so big shocker I know but Fighting-types are broken again. Pretty sure I've heard talk about all them being broken at some point in time but discussion hasn't really gone anywhere due to Pecharunt trolling all of the Fighting-types in the tier. Now that it's gone we got some problems to worry about.


Very blatant winner of the Pecharunt ban here; Pecha was one of the few mons that could actually counter Mienshao to begin with and with that gone that leaves one less hard counter and one less check in general. I don't think reverting back to the "soft check stacking" metagame we had before Pecharunt is that terrible but partners like Tyranitar (it's on like half of the broken Mienshao comps) trapping and removing its few checks and Slowking giving it chances to blow up mons like PhysDef Tangrowth, Okidogi, and Galarian Weezing make that way easier said than done now. I don't think Choice Scarf is the broken set, just Life Orb. So hopefully our offensive checks like Latias, Munkidori, and the fast Electric-types can hold the line with the defensive soft checks. If not then...don't expect it to survive the next round of RU Open lol.


Another mon that directly benefits from Pecharunts ban. It too has barely any defensive switch ins but has slightly more than Mienshao. Gligar is a stellar counter to Slither Wing while mons like Crobat, Talonflame, and any Fairy-type dissuade it from spamming Close Combat at the very least. It's slower speed is also critical, since Slither Wing is easily revenge killed and left struggling against stuff like Nidoking and Munkidori. The huge decline in overall longevity is also pretty annoying when compared to Mienshao. This isn't to say that it's a shitty mon though, quite the opposite. First Impression is still a nice tool against more offensive comps and still hits incredibly hard as it spams U-turn. Last NDPL also saw sets like Bulk Up + Flame Charge popup with nice results although that fell off more in recent times. I think that set + Bulky Pivot and Choice Scarf can also to differentiate it more from Mienshao since Choice Band's raw power isn't doing it enough (seeing a lot of times where I consider running Slither Wing only for Mienshao to generally perform the role better).


Conkeldurr has two major sets and I will discuss why both are "broken"

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

Now this is the typical Conkeldurr set that everyone knows and loves. If Mienshao is hard to switch into defensively, then this is nearly impossible. It excels at being a very powerful trader by nature of being impossible to switch into (You basically have to sack something every time it hits the field). That sort of creates a unhealthy dynamic in the tier with Slowking whereby it gets on the field (typically with Slowking's Teleport), takes a key part of the opponent's defensive core (or offensive core if they can't afford to give up anything), switches out unpunished, and repeats the cycle a couple of turns later. Very annoying to play proactively against it overall. Best bet is probably just trying to accept the trade vs a mon that Conkeldurr doesn't OHKO (such as Mandibuzz) and chipping it down until it eventually dies from Burn + Hazards. Although its still a scenario that a Conkeldurr still tends to come out of with an advantage so the unhealthy dynamic still persists.

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 176 SpD / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off / Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Mach Punch

I forged this set for an MSPL game and I've never stopped using it. The premise of it is simple: Create a Conkeldurr set that solves its longevity issues while also attempting to invalidate standard means of outplaying Conkeldurr. And one of the key ways it does this is by EVing to live random attacks that it realistically shouldn't (bootleg Iron Hands). "Officially" the spread I made lets you switch into Scarf Mienshao's Close Combat and outruns Tangrowth so you can effectively use both as setup fodder. In reality I've have seen this spread live things like Latias's Psychic from full and KO back if its boosted, so any attacker equal to or under that threshold can just be made quick work of. And then if you make the mistake of statusing this (say with Tinkaton or Slowking) then you now how to deal with the firepower of Guts in addition to its great bulk. This creates a rather interesting situation for Conkeldurr, since it has the potential to beat every single S- through A rank mon in additon to a large chunk of the A- pool (I've seen this setup on and beat Crobat for instance). Fortunately for the great people of NDRU, this still thuds into most non-Bulu Fairy-types so if you really hate that set then that is an option to handle it.


Okidogi (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpD / 140 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

Speed outruns Adamant Metagross, can be moved up or down to meet whatever benchmark. Shouldn't matter that much.

Pecharunt kept this down so hard, but now I think it has a chance to come back to the spotlight with its nasty ass Bulk Up sets if we experiment with it more. Like it's almost perfectly fine-tuned to the current metagame in theory since it can setup on virtually all of the defensive good mons while keeping strong threats like Tyranitar, Mienshao, and Slither Wing in check. Also probably turns into one of the best Knockers and Toxic spreaders in the tier. Put it this way: Okidogi has the potential to beat everything in the tier unless its like a bulky Psychic type. Of course that could easily be an exaggeration (hopefully it is) but the amount of mons I've seen this cheese is insane. If you don't have a good way of breaking its Substitute then...just click X bro it's not winnable.

Other thoughts on the metagame right now:


These 3 are just really consistent breakers in the metagame post-Scizor, I don't think I've ever seen them on a team where they just sit there and do nothing. Infact they are more likely to help elevate a flimsy composition to a more consistent level since they can cover so many defensive pieces in the tier in just one slot. Fairly easy to fit on your typical Bulky Offense composition and not at all hard to either get in or generally use in practice too.


Choice Band Tyranitar clicks one move and its Knock Off. Such an insane progress maker in the tier and also helps enable the Fighting-types of the tier by being a fantastic Latias, Slowking, Crobat, etc check. Pursuit (The only other move this thing loves clicking) is super duper good right now due to Slowking and Latias being everywhere and its presence in the builder alone also invalidates a ton of mons like Blissey, Reuniclus, and Togekiss while also influencing move and item choices on a ton of mons like Latias (Aura Sphere with Colbur, Expert Belt, and Fightinium-Z), Slowking with Colbur Berry, Thundurus with Focus Blast, etc. Also doesn't help that its fairly easy to put on a team and build around, circling back to how Slowking and Mienshao are its best partners right now. Tyranitar has other sets of course but they feel so much worse to run over Choice Band since the amount of pressure its exerts is just so absurd.


Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Substitute / Stealth Rocks / Toxic Spikes / Taunt / Superpower / whatever filler move you want lmfao

Seeing this Nidoking on preview always feels like a nightmare scenario because it gets on to the field deceptively easily and terrorizes any non-Blissey team. It's two best partners (Mienshao and Slowking) wear down its already slim checks and let it be really consistent in the metagame. Nidoking is always something you probably need to play proactively against, with the best way of doing that is offensively pressuring it with faster mons which most of them thankfully do successfully. Keeping it from being a full on broken mon and just being a rather strong balance breaker. Can also clearly do a lot with your fourth moveslot as well, I prefer the offensive utility aspect of Nidoking with Rocks or Toxic Spikes. Substitute is probably a flagship variant though to help punish switch outs from mons like Okidogi and Tapu Bulu further.


Ok so I kinda lied since Shark isn't that easy to fit on your standard BO team, but it makes up for by being an insanely dumb breaker for Hyper Offense teams. Needs very minimal support to function there, often just needing a hazards lead and its set to go crazy. Generally it also gets more threatening as the game progresses since its checks like Tangrowth or Mega Aggron are more prone to being worn down by its partners to make way for the clean up.

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

This is my current preference for a Mega Sharpedo moveset since EQ + Ice Fang lets you cover threats like Tapu Bulu, Tinkaton, and Cobalion while still being a threat to stuff like Tangrowth, Gligar, Togekiss, etc. Psychic Fangs is also a fine option since Fighting types are hella brokey right now, but it's not as potent since you have to trade your matchup into defensive threats in order to slot it.


Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake

This lives...something from a Latias set. I forgot what it was though. Max Def is more than fine usually so feel free to disregard those EVs.

Sometimes Tangrowth feels like an S- mon in the tier due to all of the things it can just blanket check for a team. Tangrowth + Fighting resist = Boom Mienshao solved not broken everyone! Tangrowth + Tinkaton, Tyranitar is done for. And that's definitely not all, Tapu Bulu borderline feels BAD in this metagame sometimes because its just thuds so badly into Tangrowth, most of the defensive mons in this tier can't even pressure Tangrowth whatsoever, any attempt to directly switch into it can be punished with Knock Off, Sludge Bomb, or Sleep Powder. And then just when you thought you could wear it down, the second you force it out it gets to heal off most of the damage its sponged. Mind you that was all in a Pecharunt metagame, so its probably even better now.

This was just in regards to the PhysDef Tangrowth sets. Idrk how good AV is right now, but probably not very. Too many Knock users in the tier for my liking.


Thundurus (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Electrium Z
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Blissey's usage is not great right now and it's in a fairly negligible state in the builder right now due to getting flustered by Tyranitar too easily (it's also passive as fuck so yea). Hopefully the Pecharunt ban lifts it up but I doubt it. Anyways the reason I bring this up is because that means Tyranitar and the Spdef Steels are kinda on their own when trying to handle Nasty Plot Thundurus. None of those Steels can actually pressure it well outside of status, which is irrelevant since Thundurus will just nuke them from orbit at the best and at the worst take 2 or more other mons with them. Grass Knot + HP Ice essentially mauls most of the defensive metagame including mons like Tangrowth (even if its AV Tang, best it can do back is Sludge Bomb), Tapu Bulu, Swampert and Gastrodon, Cyclizar, Gligar, etc. There's only really a handful of mons that can actually stand up to it defensive like like the aformentioned Tyranitar and Blissey, after that I think its like Rotom-Heat and I think Mega Steelix. But none of them like dealing with Thundurus's other NP variant: Fightinium Z. Its high speed (coincidentally outpacing Latias) also makes trying to revenge kill it with the few Scarfers we have rather annoying since its bulky enough to live some of their hits from full (lives Ice Spinner from Mienshao, Flare Blitz from Infernape, has a high chance to live Diggersby's Return, etc). I can't see it staying if Mienshao leaves the tier ever to be honest.


He is so mid as a pure defensive or offensive mon, but I think you can still have some great uses with a nice mix between the two. Bulky Offrocker (Akin to something like how Rhyperior behaves) generally feels like a nice set since the speed isn't that necessary and being able to take hits while hitting back hard yourself is a game changer for some teams.

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 36 Def / 152 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn / Liquidation or Waterfall idk
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Toxic / Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

This is my rough idea of a "good" Mega Swampert spread, where you essentially live 2 hits from Scarf Mienshao's CC and a hit from from Specs Latias and weaker's Draco Meteor. All while still having a lot of power to threaten both of them and other threats like Tapu Bulu, Cyclizar, Slowking, etc.



I used this spread on this team since the original version of this team (it had base pert instead of mega) felt a little bit too passive. Lures in Tangrowth and makes the Band Tyranitar matchup less reliant on Conkeldurr to carry.


Actually horrid mon, I ranked kept this ranked because of false information (I thought it had Focus Blast). Lets never touch this mon again until Tyranitar leaves the tier.

 

[Runo]

Oh nobody posted tier shifts here that's a bummer:
-----------------------------
Rise
RU to OU:

Drops
UU to RU:
-----------------------------

Anyways cutting to the chase here, we held a quick slate on Haxorus out of fear of it impacting the impending RU Open finals:

Slate

Haxorus is banned from National Dex RU!

Even though Haxorus is a threat that National Dex RU has familiarized itself over the generation, dropping and rising multiple times throughout the tier's lifespan, that doesn't necessarily mean that we enjoy its return to the tier once more. Haxorus's raw power and Swords Dance + Scale Shot sets are still frankly a nightmare to deal with especially with its stellar coverage and z-moves on the table. Would-be checks like Mega Aggron can easily fold to a +2 Close Combat, Tinkaton to Earthquake, Primarina and Tapu Bulu by Poison Jab, meanwhile defensive behemoths that might've been able to take a boosted hit from it like Tangrowth can't hit it back hard enough for significant damage and the ones that can (such as Mandibuzz) risk getting removed by a well timed Z-Scale Shot. This leaves only offensive checks to stand a chance at taking down Haxorus, which is easier said then done due to the lack of good revenge killers to beat a +1 speed boosted Haxorus. Scarf Mienshao and Scarf Latias are essentially the only good responses to it; and while the former is a stellar revenge killer and insanely splashable, the latter is not very which leaves the offensive checks fairly desolate. Enough to where council feels really uneasy letting this mon loose in Finals of a circuit tournament, so we felt a ban was justified here. Haxorus could be explored at a later date if there is enough public support for it.

On Mienshao:

Mienshao remains a very controversial threat in the tier because of how negatively it can warp the metagame around its presence, but council did not belive that this should be slated at this time once again due to the impact it (or rather its absence) can have on Finals. Additionally although there is significant support to ban Mienshao in the community, there is also a lot of apathy or outright support for keeping it in the tier so we would like to have some sort of consensus regarding this mon before moving forward with potential action.

I would like to ask those who are top 6 in NDRU Open II and top 9 in NDRU Seasonal to give their thoughts about Mienshao here:
Flames Of Elixir Caesarr BellUno seth sealoo entrocefalo s7a Hairoll Don Bork JeoZ Kinzo Adriyun Amstan Juiceinthebag about15gals Big Chungus irl eona misa

I know some of you guys are not really invested in the NDRU metagame, but if you have any sort of stance then it would help us out a lot if you made it known. Thank you.

Edit: Even if you aren't apart of the list of people I tagged, we would still love to hear your opinions on Mienshao and the rest of the tier if possible!

 

[about15gals]

Oh nobody posted tier shifts here that's a bummer:
-----------------------------
Rise
RU to OU:

Drops
UU to RU:
-----------------------------

Anyways cutting to the chase here, we held a quick slate on Haxorus out of fear of it impacting the impending RU Open finals:

Slate

View attachment 646248

Haxorus is banned from National Dex RU!

Even though Haxorus is a threat that National Dex RU has familiarized itself over the generation, dropping and rising multiple times throughout the tier's lifespan, that doesn't necessarily mean that we enjoy its return to the tier once more. Haxorus's raw power and Swords Dance + Scale Shot sets are still frankly a nightmare to deal with especially with its stellar coverage and z-moves on the table. Would-be checks like Mega Aggron can easily fold to a +2 Close Combat, Tinkaton to Earthquake, Primarina and Tapu Bulu by Poison Jab, meanwhile defensive behemoths that might've been able to take a boosted hit from it like Tangrowth can't hit it back hard enough for significant damage and the ones that can (such as Mandibuzz) risk getting removed by a well timed Z-Scale Shot. This leaves only offensive checks to stand a chance at taking down Haxorus, which is easier said then done due to the lack of good revenge killers to beat a +1 speed boosted Haxorus. Scarf Mienshao and Scarf Latias are essentially the only good responses to it; and while the former is a stellar revenge killer and insanely splashable, the latter is not very which leaves the offensive checks fairly desolate. Enough to where council feels really uneasy letting this mon loose in Finals of a circuit tournament, so we felt a ban was justified here. Haxorus could be explored at a later date if there is enough public support for it.

On Mienshao:

Mienshao remains a very controversial threat in the tier because of how negatively it can warp the metagame around its presence, but council did not belive that this should be slated at this time once again due to the impact it (or rather its absence) can have on Finals. Additionally although there is significant support to ban Mienshao in the community, there is also a lot of apathy or outright support for keeping it in the tier so we would like to have some sort of consensus regarding this mon before moving forward with potential action.

I would like to ask those who are top 6 in NDRU Open II and top 9 in NDRU Seasonal to give their thoughts about Mienshao here:
Flames Of Elixir Caesarr BellUno seth sealoo entrocefalo s7a Hairoll Don Bork JeoZ Kinzo Adriyun Amstan Juiceinthebag about15gals Big Chungus irl eona misa

I know some of you guys are not really invested in the NDRU metagame, but if you have any sort of stance then it would help us out a lot if you made it known. Thank you.

Edit: Even if you aren't apart of the list of people I tagged, we would still love to hear your opinions on Mienshao and the rest of the tier if possible!

mienshao's definitely a weird mon in ndru right now, while I still don't have the MOST experience, especially compared to some of the other people mentioned, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. I think that mienshao is undeniably a fantastic pokemon in the builder. Regen is great on it, and its high attack stat paired with very respectable coverage makes it hard to deal with. Its main weakness is that, while it's incredibly fast, it's not faster than some notable threats like Mscept (haiiiii adriyun) and Mmane, leaving it weak to teams with those structures,.I still think that teams that are able to bring it in often with the large variety of incredible pivots ru has access to (gligar, slowbro, empoleon, etc) that it's overwhelming at times. I still do think that there's some counterplay to it however, but it's hard to find a consistent answer to it, as ice spinner, poison jab and knock off all allow it to threaten mons, and regen keeps it healthly throughout a match even with helm, rocks and spikes being relatively common. I think between its speed, strength and coverage options, on top of its access to uturn make it incredibly overbearing to deal with, especially due to its propensity to just beat helm mons long term, especially since they're not running HDB to outlive hazards. I'd rather see it gone, but if it's allowed to stay I won't be staying up at night lamenting it

minor ps: i forgot to mention that this thing's also like impossible to bring in safely, but ru has so many good pivots that I don't think it's very problematic for it

(brainspew over)