Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Moyashi]

I didn't even notice the base Ttar usage when looking at recent stats (somehow glossed over it), but now that you pointed it out I just am perplexed This mon's continued usage by ladder is so inexplicable to me and I'll never understand ladder's continued insistence on using this when MTtar s better 100% of the time (I say this as I notice the teams I've faced on ladder that use this thing don't even use another mega, so there's really no excuse to use this over MTtar on those teams). Scarf is still way too slow, it's passive and bad with junk spdef lefties, AV is a joke (and locks you out of the good utility of rocks/twave), and choice band's strong but the extra power is unnecessary when the boost Mtar gets is plenty and it not being choice locked allows it much greater flexibility comparatively during a game.

I honestly think it's a terrible Tera user because outside options like ground/steel, Terastilizing causes it to take chip from its own sandstorm which only further inhibits its already limited longevity, and having to build to support its flaws just feels like a massive headache that just isn't worth it when MTtar is just great and while still needing some support, is much more functional.

 

[Patar136]

Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar seems like the way to go. It's a Kaiju Monster. Let it be a Kaiju Monster.

Sadly Gen V is a memory for it.

 

[Patar136]

Not only do u insist on having suck broken mon allowed, but you also dared called Scovillain a shitmon...

It is a shitty Pokemon. Get with the times and embrace Kingdra, King of All Dragons, Guardian of Johto, sweeper of the rains, destroyer of Landorus and wrecker of your shit. >:)

 

[Oculars]

A few trends I've seen lately (shoutout Psychic types):

Pinkacross popularizing Specs Iron Crown on Terrain with Koko support has me fighting demons. I have run into it a few times now and my standard/meta teams can really struggle with this.

On this note pinkacross has been here for like two days and has already been innovating the meta, me Kayzn Toxic Ariados and Ineros played a load of matches with him yesterday evening and he brought some super off meta sets that worked out really well such as tera ghost lando, tera water sub tect kyurem and scarf thunderus therian. He also is a big fan of mega pinsir it seems, brought a lot of helmet slowbro which hasnt been as popular as mola lately and specs crown with koko. Its nice to see an outsiders perspective on the tier coming from someone who isn't adapted to our meta trends and can give fresh insight to our tier.

Pinkacross I was wondering if you have any thoughts on how our current meta is after your ladder run and the games we played yesterday.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

It is a shitty Pokemon. Get with the times and embrace Kingdra, King of All Dragons, Guardian of Johto, sweeper of the rains, destroyer of Landorus and wrecker of your shit. >:)

It is a shitty Pokemon. Get with the times and embrace Kingdra, King of All Dragons, Guardian of Johto, sweeper of the rains, destroyer of Landorus and wrecker of your shit. >:)

Yeah sure, how about no? Im sticking with the pepper boi even if yalll consider it bad. Imo it is the better chlorophyll sweeper to use currently as venusaur's 100 spatk just aint cutting it without a growth. Scovillain on the other hand has 108 (both physical AND special), fire stab and stab fire blast or even overheat, giving that more needed burst in power. Sure it is frail as a paper when it touches a water drop, but with pivoting that's nothing that can't be solved. He may not be great, but it does have its niche in dedicated sun teams at the very least as a riskier but more rewarding version of venusaur.

 

[Sami]

set

Alakazam @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Psychic / Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam

Few folks have been running some NP LO Zam lately and I really fuck with it. Great speed tier, breaking power. Not a whole ton of priority to contend with though obviously there are yet a few threats supplying it (and Paradox mons are fast as hell with Booster). It also pairs pretty well with a couple of those Fake Out users in Lopunny and Medicham. I've had the idea for a while to try out some Expanding Force Tera Psychic shenanigans, though haven't landed on a decent structure yet. That, and the classic Sash Counter tech...

Alakazam is actually pretty cool and I think it could be nominated in the future simply because of its immediate power, speed and flexability between its item, movepool and Tera type. Both Life Orb and Focus Sash are valid options, with the first giving Alakazam lethal levels of damage with no repercussions while the second guarantees either a Nasty Plot or a 2HKO on something, while also being useful against HO teams to revenge-kill a weakened sweeper. Life Orb actually makes a big difference in a lot of kills you get, such as:

Life Orb vs Focus Sash

Unboosted Psychic

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-Therian: 181-214 (47.3 - 56%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-Therian: 235-278 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 168-198 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 218-257 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 174-205 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 226-266 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 145-172 (38.8 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 188-224 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 189-223 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 246-290 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 192-226 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 250-294 (88.9 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Diancie-Mega: 156-184 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Diancie-Mega: 203-239 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 180-212 (69.4 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 234-276 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Unboosted Focus Blast

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 256-302 (79.2 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 333-393 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 308-364 (82.3 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 400-473 (106.9 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 278-328 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 361-426 (119.9 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Boulder: 126-149 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Boulder: 164-194 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(do ppl even run this)
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads: 162-192 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads: 211-250 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Boosted Psychic

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 304-359 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 262-309 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 341-402 (96.3 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 330-388 (83.7 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 429-504 (108.8 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Boosted Focus Blast

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 372-438 (96.3 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 484-569 (125.3 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 237-279 (69 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 308-363 (89.7 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 76 SpD Corviknight: 282-332 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 76 SpD Corviknight: 367-432 (91.9 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 336-396 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 437-515 (85 - 100.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

idk if that last one proves that alakazam is strong as fuck or ting lu is bulky af

With all this damage aside, Focus Sash is nice for ensuring Pokemon like Rillaboom, Samurott-H, Raging Bolt or even the niche (but viable IMO) Lokix can't get in your way, although obviously the drop in power does suck especially without a boost. This is just 3 moveslots by the way, the last one alongside the Tera type is pretty customizable; Shadow Ball + Tera Ghost not only lets you dodge Extreme Speed from Dragonite and Fake Out from Mega Medicham, but it lets you muscle through Galarian Slowking and Iron Crown with a strengthened Shadow Ball:

Alakazam vs Slowking-G and Iron Crown

252 SpA Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 237-281 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 362-428 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 471-556 (119.5 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


252 SpA Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 134-162 (34.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 174-211 (45.4 - 55%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 270-320 (70.4 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Iron Crown: 351-416 (91.6 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

It also lets you beat Stall marginally better since Chansey or Blissey can't whittle you down with Seismic Toss anymore, basically making you immune to any sort of damage from the two since you're immune to Toxic as well. Alternatively, there's Tera Fairy + Dazzling Gleam letting you take Sucker Punch from Samurott-H better:

252+ Atk Choice Band Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Alakazam: 153-181 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's also the option for Tera Psychic to make your own Psychics absolutely nuclear, such as letting you almost OHKO Tornadus-T, Landorus-T, Kyurem and Dondozo with Life Orb Tera-boosted Psychic, but this is definitely overkill IMO and you benefit more from the other two Tera types than you do this one.

As for teammates, Tapu Lele is a no-brainer for more damage and extra survability versus priority spammers, as well as somewhat handling opposing Dark-types for us. Mega Tyranitar is good at wearing down Slowking-G and Iron Crown for us to break easier, while providing hazard support and a way of shutting down opposing weather, particularly Rain, so we don't get too out-offensed; Ferrothorn also helps with this while giving additional hazard support with Spikes and speed control with Thunder Wave. Psychic-types as a whole don't like Mega Scizor, especially if you're using Mega Tyranitar, so Heatran, Iron Moth and Moltres (if yall believe in it) can help versus it, otherwise Landorus-T is just a good pivot into it to slow it down (Fly-Z is actually a decent check into Mega Scizor and Gravity helps with Focus Blast too).

Alakazam BO (probably could do with a few tweaks maybe)

This isn't really a "nomination" because I have no replays but Alakazam is pretty cool NGL, especially with the small number of good Dark-types around; like there isn't much outside of Mega Tyranitar, Samurott-H, Ting-Lu and I GUESS Meowscarada is there?

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Yeah sure, how about no? Im sticking with the pepper boi even if yalll consider it bad. Imo it is the better chlorophyll sweeper to use currently as venusaur's 100 base power just aint cutting it without a growth. Scovillain on the other hand has 108, fire stab and stab fire blast or even overheat, giving that more needed burst in power. Sure it is frail as a paper when it touches a water drop, but with pivoting that nothing that cant be solved. He may not be great, but it does have its niche in dedicated sun teams at the very least as a riskier but more rewarding version of venusaur.

the audacity of Patar for Citing Kingdra, a Pokémon with No niche , to bring down Scovillain, A Pokémon with the Niche of being better than the other option lmao Speaking of Pokémon that are underrated as fu i wanted to give a Lil Spotlight to


Calm down, calm down. this thing has that one lil bulk of

116/85/95, access to Fairy coverage (no drain kiss tho), Heal bell, Cm stored power and Recovery in Moonlight. sure, its rank been
NU/PUBL/PU/ZU/Natdex Untiered, very lame of it, but it can win games by itself as long as the opp doesnt have A dark type anymore. things Like scarf meowscarada and Mega Lop are great at killing dark types, and Thanks to Heal Bell Musharna wins against things like Chansey Comfortably, arguably one of the best Stallbreakers if u ask me. now why use it over Cress, reuniclus and other such mons? well Reuniclus cannot use things like Moonblast in exchange of Boosting Physdef and recovering regardless of the weather, Cress is shut down by Toxic if not running Rest, and Musharna can Paralyze back a Poké like hatterene and glowking who try to para haxx it and immediately Heal bell. Obviously this thing will never ever be something to consider in the builder so you can bring it in like roomtours to surprise and sweep ur opp

 

[Patar136]

the audacity of Patar for Citing Kingdra, a Pokémon with No niche , to bring down Scovillain, A Pokémon with the Niche of being better than the other option

My Pokémon actually has an analysis for it. Considering there is also a Chinese translation a decent amount of people agree with me.

Another Pokémon who I have been thinking about lately is Gengar. That False Swipe Gaming video dropped on Halloween and I am wondering if our spooky friend is worth trying out? Probably bad but might be funny to try it out. I miss the days of Levitate Gengar. WTF Game Freak?

 

[Dead by Daylight]

As the writer of the Kingdra analysis:

Don’t use it.

 

[Patar136]

Oh come on Dead by Daylight. Look, even if you don’t like me don’t diss your own work.

It’s a fun analysis.

Speaking of Analysis I kind of wanna make a sequel to the rain analysis I drafted years ago. Archaludon, Raging Bolt (the GOAT), Waterpon and friends…. I think it deserves to be mentioned. Since rain is still good.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

"DON'T YOU KNOW [Neo] IS FAMOUS FOR ITS HIGH DEFENSE!?"

So, earlier this week I decided to build a team with one of my favorite Pokemon to come out of Generation 9, Armarouge. I wanted to experiment with a Calm Mind + Expanding Force set under Psychic Terrain, so I came up with this set. And after messing around with it a bit, I found out that Armarouge can be pretty destructive.

CLICK FOR FREE KROMER (Armarouge Set)

Neo (Armarouge) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force
- Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind

Similar to its Medieval Cousin, this Armarouge uses a Focus Sash Weak Armor build to wreak havoc. Once you set up that Calm Mind and activate your Weak Armor, you become [[Number 1 Rated Sweeper2022]]! Tera Fighting & Aura Sphere are there to take down things like Heatran, Hydreigon and Tyranitar safely. A real [[BIG SHOT]] would use Focus Blast for the extra damage, but I'm way too afraid to trade accuracy for power.

Psychic Terrain support [[100% Guarantees]] that those [[Clowns Around Town]] won't be able to hit you with priority moves like Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, Thunderclap, or the like, allowing you retaliate by clicking Armor Cannon and firing off a BIG SHOT! (Or you can just click Expanding Force, but that isn't nearly as cool!)

Using a Terrain Extender Tapu Lele team along with Armarouge, I was able to reach the 1850s on the ladder. Based on my experience, Armarouge has the potential to be a terrifying force under Psychic Terrain due to the raw power of Expanding Force and the BIG SHOT Armor Cannon. In the future I might experiment with other sets like Double Dance/Endure Weakness Policy, just to see how well those perform. So what do you think? Is Armarouge worthy of [[BIG SHOT]] status? Or is he nothing but a [[Little Sponge]] who hates its [[$4.99]] life?

 

[sealoo]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...e-test-post-dlc2-new-suspect-process.3754393/ i love hats and funny gems! Tera resuspect!

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

What does eligible mean?
urgent question sorry to one-line

 

[LBN]

View attachment 684597
What does eligible mean?
urgent question sorry to one-line

it means your account didnt have any starting games when u registered it, thus its eligible to be used for the suspect.

btw if yall fumble this shit again imma laugh at yall for eternity hope u know this LMAOOO

 

[hidin]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...e-test-post-dlc2-new-suspect-process.3754393/ i love hats and funny gems! Tera resuspect!

If you like funny gems, you'll love to hear my opinion on it. Check out this video I made on Tera, again!

 

[Patar136]

Well this is it folks. Either Tera gets banned here or people are just gonna leave this tier. I think people are gonna elect to ban it on principle at this point. But it all depends. Who knows?

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Well this is it folks. Either Tera gets banned here or people are just gonna leave this tier. I think people are gonna elect to ban it on principle at this point. But it all depends.

I'll be voting DNB, am getting the reqs rn, still a 0L on my sus account but anyways I will be supporting Tera to stay. I really like how this generation is different from all the others as in it's offensive but not "the fastest wins", it's Heavy in hazards but not as in "run Mold breaker Hawlucha to defog", it's Letting Archetypes, notably TR, finally be Viable without being broken (still die if you manage to get hzards up and survive more than they get to) but also Tailwind (Brambleghast on theVR before Glastrier? Biased asf).

If anything should be looked at rn it's Raging bolt you cannot change my mind

 

[awyp]

I'll be voting DNB, am getting the reqs rn, still a 0L on my sus account but anyways I will be supporting Tera to stay. I really like how this generation is different from all the others as in it's offensive but not "the fastest wins", it's Heavy in hazards but not as in "run Mold breaker Hawlucha to defog", it's Letting Archetypes, notably TR, finally be Viable without being broken (still die if you manage to get hzards up and survive more than they get to) but also Tailwind (Brambleghast on theVR before Glastrier? Biased asf).

If anything should be looked at rn it's Raging bolt you cannot change my mind

People like you are the reason I’ll be going out of my way to get Reqs in a meta I don’t really play. Your reasoning seems weak and as you said your mind is already set. So thank you for making this post, you have motivated me. SS > SV

 

[yonmd]

I'll be voting DNB, am getting the reqs rn, still a 0L on my sus account but anyways I will be supporting Tera to stay. I really like how this generation is different from all the others as in it's offensive but not "the fastest wins", it's Heavy in hazards but not as in "run Mold breaker Hawlucha to defog", it's Letting Archetypes, notably TR, finally be Viable without being broken (still die if you manage to get hzards up and survive more than they get to) but also Tailwind (Brambleghast on theVR before Glastrier? Biased asf).

If anything should be looked at rn it's Raging bolt you cannot change my mind

Trick room is viable? I must be blind then because I saw a total of 0 trick room teams in NDPL. Also tailwind is a literal meme LMAO

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

People like you are the reason I’ll be going out of my way to get Reqs in a meta I don’t really play. Your reasoning seems weak and as you said your mind is already set. So thank you for making this post, you have motivated me. SS > SV

people like me? what?
Tier preference is subjective you know, good for u

Laddering back up, experiencing lowladd made le realize that the meta down there is not that different, like I can measure how high elo I am by the Greninja per 5 Game factor, going from ~3 to ~0.2 from 1000 to 1400 elo, but other than 1-2 Underrated troll mon per team, it's globally the same. Another thing I remark is the Tera on Various Pokémon is Practically the same regardlesss of elo, for example Tera ground blast Moth is a thing even at 1200, and Tera Dragon Corv and Tera Fairy Garg are Universal. just to say that I suport COIL over GXE, that is.
Look I'm delighted I am your source of inspiration, great honour for me, but I really feel like We shouldn't try to remodel the tier towards something a significant part of the playerbase doesn't want it to be remodeled towards, and I am of the part that likes the current state of the meta. I dont feel it to be legitimate to talk about objectiveness, we as human beings cannot reach such point of view. I lost 3 games to unfortunate Crits, one to an unexpected set, and one to my opp simply outplaying me. And a whopping 0 games to Surprising or any Teras because Tera is simply very manageable and counterable in its current state. I'm not saying the meta as a whole is balanced, Kyu gets a lot of hate, so does waterpon,and I feel like the drop in enjoyment and Balance (myself having answered 7 to both of the Qs) is more due to the Pokémon that inhabit the tier, if you want a boost in motivation, I'll say it: Raging bolt is what I dislike the most in this Meta. I'll stop laddrin for the night, I love the new system, and good luck to everybody laddering!

 

[Aso]

Shameless plug people lets ban this!(i will not upload for another 6 months)

 

[Eve L. Duehr]

We finally have another chance to get Tera out of this tier and have a balanced meta! I'll be on ladder working my hardest to get reqs, and I hope to see you all there! If we can remove Tera, the tier will be able to support far more diverse play. Maybe your favorite mon becomes viable. Maybe new cores become good and you find something you love. But certainly, you will get to see new, cool, and fun things on ladder.

Removing Tera will do a lot of good for the tier. Hyper Offense has been so good that it's come at the cost of other teamstyles being much less viable. Everybody should be able to have a fair shot with their favorite teamstyle. Banning Tera would bring the various teamstyles back into balance. This would necessarily make more mons viable. Banning Tera would give you more options in the teambuilder. And the removal of Tera would make games more skill-based and predictable. Imagine losing a tournament to a weird Tera type designed to fish the matchup you're in. Banning Tera would ensure that skill is the deciding factor in matches.

There are a lot of great reasons to ban Tera, and the best arguments I've seen against it are... "Trick Room" and "Tailwind Brambleghast." The choice is clear. Let's do what's right for National Dex.

 

[sluGGy]

Look I'm delighted I am your source of inspiration, great honour for me, but I really feel like We shouldn't try to remodel the tier towards something a significant part of the playerbase doesn't want it to be remodeled towards, and I am of the part that likes the current state of the meta.
I dont feel it to be legitimate to talk about objectiveness, we as human beings cannot reach such point of view.

1. It's quite interesting that you mention that a supposed sizeable portion of the playerbase doesn't want the tier to be redone, when the survey dictates quite the opposite. Of course, that's all up to interpretation, but one of the most effectual conclusions that can be drawn from a majority disliking the current state of things is that the tier is in dire need of a makeover. And no, it wouldn't be sincere to take a solely objective stance on the issue, but shouldn't we aim to be as sound as possible?

I really like how this generation is different from all the others as in it's offensive but not "the fastest wins", it's Heavy in hazards but not as in "run Mold breaker Hawlucha to defog", it's Letting Archetypes, notably TR, finally be Viable without being broken (still die if you manage to get hzards up and survive more than they get to) but also Tailwind (Brambleghast on theVR before Glastrier? Biased asf).

2. Yes, Offense isn't as polarizing as it can be, but it's still by far the most dominant playstyle to an arguably unhealthier degree. It has way too many tools at its dispossal, so much so that its entirely invalidating the usage of other playstyles since any other wouldn't be able to catch up. But this is not a case by case issue, or a mon by mon issue rather, it's Tera overblowing their threat level to an unmanageable point. This can be seen regularly when managing a threat defensively, where the response to an opp's tera abuser is more often than not, a tera of your own.

Also, I want to believe that you utilizing TR's "viability" and Tailwinds's (well, Bramble's, really) appereance on some PL matches are satirical, as there have been no tier redefining breakthroughs with either playstyle other than utter memery.

I feel like the drop in enjoyment and Balance (myself having answered 7 to both of the Qs) is more due to the Pokémon that inhabit the tier, if you want a boost in motivation, I'll say it: Raging bolt is what I dislike the most in this Meta.

3. Those Pokémon have been fine enough well before the introduction of the mechanic. This can be clearly seen with Eleki and Melm being cast off, and Kyu and Dnite being held as a problematic presences. These mons were fine enough last gen and aided in fomenting a healthier metagame, barring the former one which aids less as its one note. Other mons are being constantly held up to debate if Tera is what really pushed them over the edge, which, imo, is an other indicator the the problem lies within the mechanic itself.

Any other solutions towards the undeniable critical state of the tier rn would imply to keep the continous, seemingly never ending, stream of bans, which that itself is one of the many factors pushing so many people off from touching this tier for the 1st time or ever again.

 

[Patar136]

I think people are annoyed at Tera because they dislike its volatility. I personally don't really mind Tera that much as it can be used skillfully (using tera to spin block, to block a revenge kill attempt, to set a hazard, clear a hazard, set up) etc. However, at this point, I do sympathize with the non-tera crowd as I would like to see certain Pokemon return to the tier to help stabilize the metagame. (Looking at you Kingambit. I miss you.)

Removing Tera will do a lot of good for the tier. Hyper Offense has been so good that it's come at the cost of other teamstyles being much less viable. Everybody should be able to have a fair shot with their favorite teamstyle. Banning Tera would bring the various teamstyles back into balance. This would necessarily make more mons viable. Banning Tera would give you more options in the teambuilder. And the removal of Tera would make games more skill-based and predictable. Imagine losing a tournament to a weird Tera type designed to fish the matchup you're in. Banning Tera would ensure that skill is the deciding factor in matches.

There is something to be said in that we are not beholden to make any one playstyle dominant or not dominant. HO being good doesn't necessarily mean that the metagame is unhealthy or bad. Gen 8 OU comes to mind where that metagame favors slower bulkier regenerator stacking teams that avoid hazards as you pivot into potentially hundred+ turn games. However, many would say that Gen 8 OU is totally fine and healthy and shouldn't change. At least some people seem to think that a more offensive-leaning metagame isn't a bad thing. GSC OU is famously offensive and that tier is still loved anyway.

What comes down to the matter is that balance teams are struggling, stall is struggling and fatter defensive teams are being punished by all the offensive threats running around. People don't like that there are so many threats in the teambuilder to have to deal with. From reliable screens HO with terrain support, to rain teams, to semi-sun teams with protosynthesis abusers to more niche but utterly devastating playstyles like full sun teams, sand teams, trick room teams and various others that can't always be accounted for in the builder. People want consistency. They want to create a team where Corviknight can reliably wall a host of physical attackers while Blissey walls special attackers. They want their weavile to be able to revenge kill Raging Bolt without getting denied by a surprise Tera. Even some offense teams like having a Charizard that can beat Heatran with Scorching Sands or even Focus Blast and not be walled by a Tera Grass Heatran that sits on you all day.

People want reliability from their mons. They want their Pokemon to be consistent at doing their job and not being invalidated by a tera they can't account for without compromising itself in some other way. To that, I understand where they are coming from.

 

[Oculars]

Trick room is viable? I must be blind then because I saw a total of 0 trick room teams in NDPL. Also tailwind is a literal meme LMAO

Trick room wins when its the correct load its good into hyper offense and stall but not much else, it is a fish but a good one