National Dex AMs 2025 Circuit Discussion

[Runo]

Hey everyone, the NDAM staff wants to make some changes regarding the circuit so we've opened up this thread for all of you to discuss.

2024 Circuit Tournaments
AAA Seasonal
BH Seasonal
Camomons Seasonal
Convergence Seasonal (dropped)
Godly Gift Seasonal
LC Seasonal
MnM Seasonal
NFE Seasonal
STABmons Seasonal
NatDex OMs Circuit Playoffs (Top 16)

Team Tournaments
NDAM Trios Tournament
NDOTSL II

Questions to consider

• Activity concerns regarding tiers like Convergence (had to be dropped from circuit), Camomons, and Mix and Mega. Should we continue considering them for a 2025 circuit?
• Points Chart needed to be changed mid circuit, currently does not seem like the best based off of the lack signups per tour. Is there a better alternative to fit our needs?
• 16 player playoffs might've been too ambitious for a smaller ran circuit like this, should we go to an 8 player playoffs instead?
• How should the playoffs formatting work going forward? The current system was created on the fly.
• National Dex Ubers UU is a thing, should that be added to the circuit going forward?

To be clear regarding the first point, just because the tier was pointed out does not mean that it will be removed, merely trying to figure out how to restructure the tiers in circuit due to the activity issues.

Suggestions unrelated to the above points are welcome as well.

 

[Evie]

drop camo and mnm, make circuit playoffs 8 person with the same format as OMs, with higher seed picking first game and then loser picking the meta until the bo5 is won.

 

[LordBox]

There's been a bit of talk in the Discord about reworking the circuit but trying to get constructive and concrete progress is kind of cancer so I'll summarise a few changes that I think should happen to the circuit.

-> Drop Camo and MnM (mentioned above) it is a bit regrettable as they might be fun metas (so I've heard) but any activity has been completely dead in the water with no chance for spotlight ladder or inclusion in NDOTSL.
-> Add UUbers, they are a fairly developed meta and community relative to the rest (as far as I can tell) and deserve to be included within the circuit like LC, NFE and the rest.
-> Double the circuit tours, having 1 tour and then NDOTSL being the only consistent flow of tours for most of the metas kind of sucks and can strangle the metas, particularly some of those unfortunate enough not to be popular enough for ladder as its annoying AF to not be able to play a meta for months on end. There's been a big lull lately in tours since NDOTSL (bar Trios) and I think we can fit them with Camo, MnM and Conv most likely being dropped even if UUbers gets added as individuals overlapping doesn't really hurt much. In general a more consistent system for more tours should be set up as that's pretty much the only way these metas and community can be developed (bar the rare ladder) and something like Spotlight Tours would also be nice. As such doubling the circuit tours does sound like the best way, though it might be a bit inflexible with how the tours are scheduled. Ideally it would probably be better if we just got more random tours like trios or some money tours got set-up but this seems far more concrete in making some actual progress instead of hoping more tours are set-up.
-> Somewhat unrelated to the circuit but I also remember discussion around fitting 2 major team-tours, I am somewhat ambivalent to the idea and I've seen quite the debate around it in Discord, I think it would be nice but a bit idealistic.

 

[zastra]

(jan - april)
- ndom homefield advantage
- ndaaa open
- ndbh open
- nd gg open
- nd lc open
- nd nfe open
- nd stab open
- nd uubers open

(april)
- pl

(may-september/oct)
- ndaaa ssnl
- ndbh ssnl
- nd gg ssnl
- nd lc ssnl
- nd nfe ssnl
- nd stab ssnl
- nd uubers ssnl
(trios somewhere in between)

(nov/dec)
- poffs

- team tour 2

i like this structure

 

[Runo]

a 7-metagame circuit frankly sounds like a nightmare to build for, although this is an improvement from the initial 9 we had this year. It's hard to ask any of the metagame's zastra listed to leave the island so we should probably alter the scorecard to incentivize playing multiple tiers or else we could have another convergence / camomons? situation. Other than that I suggest that we move homefield advantage to the end of the year instead of the start. If its done at the start of the year after such a long break, players will have a harder time shaking of the rust and it could be pretty poor quality / poor signups / etc. End of the year will be after everyone has gotten familiar with the metas of the new circuit + ndotsl with more developed resources and tier states, so they will probably be higher in quality.

 

[Chessking345]

I also think that 7-meta circuit is a lot but I'm not informed enough to give anything else on that, ideally it would be favourable for it to be cut to 4-6 but seems hard. Also agree with Runo regarding the multimeta open tour to be more ideal placed later, however regarding an actual schedule I think it fits best at beginning of year as any other timeslot feels very awkward. 2nd major team tour feels a bit shaky to actualize but I don't think is a bad idea. If it seems highly supported I can pitch some ideas to help distinguish from PL.
For my own thoughts, I feel like to also help with the incentivizing playing multiple tiers could be worthwhile having something similar to OMGS for NDAMs, a multimeta tour for the top results from all the Opens that occurs right after the last open but before PL, and this would also help boost Open participation making it easier to scout for PL. I also would like to entertain the idea of making this Grand Slam Playoffs a Round Robin format with 6 qualifiers, Opens as the only qualifying tournaments already means that for Single Elim the count is going to be 8, meaning only 3 rounds and 7 matches. RR ensures more matches for all players that qualified instead of being elimed early and only lasts 2-3 weeks extra which I feel like can fit; RR also can support draws/ties if necessary and could be interesting. This hypothetical GS would also count for circuit points, I'm not super sure how it would work with a RR but maybe award circuit points based on the final score of each player, I don't think there needs be points awarded to just qualifying as the qualified already have a bunch of points from the opens.
Sample Schedule:
Assuming that schedule is arranged efficiently (i.e. the popular and thus longer tiers first). Times mark start of R1 not sign up date to the end of Finals.
Homefield or w/e: Jan 12 - Mar 2 (Giving 7 weeks feel like thats a max duration)
Opens: Mar 2 - Apr 20 (Total 7 weeks)
Assuming 3 batches (2-2-3 in some order) in 1 week gaps, last Opens last 5 weeks (16-32 signups)
GS: Apr 20 - May 25 (Total 5 weeks)
Assuming 5 week RR, left 1 week gap but can add a finals week between top 2.
PL: June 1 - July 27 (Total 8 weeks)
Assuming 6 teams and 1 tiebreak week.
SSNLs: July 27 - Nov 16 (Total 16 weeks)
Assuming 1 week gap between each SSNL, last SSNL lasts 10 weeks (16-32 signups)
Final Playoffs: Nov 16 - Dec 7+ (Total ? weeks)
I don't know how long this is going to last. SElim is probably necessary for this as any other format risks players losing interest when low chance of winning. For SElim I feel like 16 players this year was too much considering the playerbase, 8 players means 3 weeks. Either way plenty of time.