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There are a few Pokemon on this list that should really not be there at all. D rank Pokemon are still supposed to have some niche that could just maybe warrant their use on some teams, and require support to be viable (but still can be). None of what I'm about to mention do that. Again, all of these Pokemon should become unranked. They are simply not good at all, and we should not make new players think so.
Oranguru (Normal)
This Pokemon is completely outclassed by Meloetta in everything it does. There isn't a particular set it can pull off better than Meloetta, so there is just about zero reason to use this over Meloetta.
Cacturne (Dark)
Cacturne falls under the same case as Oranguru. There is no valid reason to use it over the various physical (and special?) attackers on Dark. Its movepool is decent, but it is so frail and slow that it is outclassed by other Pokemon in any role it tries to play (Bisharp as SP SD sweeper, Greninja as Spikes lead, Hoopa-U as a special/mixed attacker)
Poliwrath (Fighting)
Again, there is zero reason to use this on a serious Fighting team, as it shares a Water typing with Keldeo. Its ability is outclassed by Toxicroak. It has absolutely terrible stats and is rather slow. Tell me why this Pokemon deserves a rank?
Sandslash-Alola (Steel)
This is a terrible Pokemon with no good quality that warrants its use on Steel. There are far better ground checks. Alolan Sandslash is too slow and too weak to do anything except just add more weaknesses to Steel (and worsen the ones it already has). It is absolute deadweight against certain matchups.
There are some key differences though between Sandslash and Beatric that makes Sands lash a much more superior abuser. First off, Beartics base 50 speed is a pretty big issue, where your almost forced to run Jolly to reach an optimal speed teir, whereas Sandslash you arent. Secondly, pure ice typing doesn't provide any significant buffs, at least with part Steel typing Sandsladh is neutral to Steel attacks, and it can threaten Rock and Fairy teams. I'm not saying Beartic is bad, however, it is kinda clear that as a hail abuser is kinda sub optimal.
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During the couple days many people have not followed the rules that are stated or are heavily implied.
Friendly Reminder- if anyone breaks any rules especially these ones you're post will be deleted and or infracted(this is your warning)
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For now the primary focus of the VR is S/A Ranks, please avoid talking about C--->D, D--->C, C--->B nominations in the future. (If you feel a passion about a certain Pokemon in a lower rank to be higher or lower please PM the Viability Rankings Council instead of posting in the thread)(this rule is only temporary until the metagame can settle a bit more)
Please instead of reposting a nomination use the like button
tagging scpinion & Dream Eater Gengar so they're aware of these changes and can moderate accordingly Art Update
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(Please Note certain nominations are not on here because either VR Council did not get to it, the nomination was rejected, or the council would like to wait on the nomination a bit longer.
Quick Updates
Rules Reminders
During the couple days many people have not followed the rules that are stated or are heavily implied.
Friendly Reminder- if anyone breaks any rules especially these ones you're post will be deleted and or infracted(this is your warning)
Please don't post pointless One Liners
Please don't post Joke Nominations
For now the primary focus of the VR is S/A Ranks, please avoid talking about C--->D, D--->C, C--->B nominations in the future. (If you feel a passion about a certain Pokemon in a lower rank to be higher or lower please PM the Viability Rankings Council instead of posting in the thread)(this rule is only temporary until the metagame can settle a bit more)
Please instead of reposting a nomination use the like button
tagging scpinion & Dream Eater Gengar so they're aware of these changes and can moderate accordingly Art Update
Art has been added special thanks to Chras for the unique piece of art Rank Changes
(Please Note certain nominations are not on here because either VR Council did not get to it, the nomination was rejected, or the council would like to wait on the nomination a bit longer.
I'm just curious, I agree with most of these nominations, but I want to ask why Mega Garchomp is now B ranked on Ground. With Zygarde now banned entirely I'd imagine it being used a lot more since it's such an effective wall breaker to use, with much needed Fire coverage, Sand Force to boost EQ to dangerous levels in Sandstrom, SD for further wall breaking (I've actually been using an SD set with FB lately, and it's proven to be pretty effective), and it's incredibly bulky with neutrality to both Water and Grass. I really am confused as to why it was put down, I would argue it is still a very solid A ranked mon.
Edit: I also wouldn't mind knowing the reasons to why Alolan Ninetales and Scolipede aren't S ranked, if you have the chance to.
Alright, Buckle in folks, because this is going to be a long post :D
Apologies if any of my suggestions / notes have already been covered or are trivial and not worth discussing.
EDITED: Put the minor nominations for unranked/C/D pokemon at the bottom.
(Water) Golisopod | C ---> B: An incredible asset with it's powerful priority, Golosipod offers powerful Bug STAB in First Impression and Leech Life and can carve Dark, Psychic, and Grass teams to pieces. Golisopod also sports a bulky ground resist and can even set spikes using the switches it forces. Thus, I think it's more in line with the B-ranked mons.
Araquanid| B ---> C: This Pokemon's one-dimensional offenses are really transparent on water: it's also very slow and contributes little to the type defensively with unremarkable typing and unreliable recovery. Definitely a C, if not D ranked pokemon, despite it's powerful water STAB.
Slowbro | B ---> A: Slowbro is as dependable as ever as a physical wall, despite new additions like Toxapex. It's markedly less passive than Toxapex, for one, with a wide variety of coverage moves and crippling status to choose from. I think it still deserves an A ranking on Water.
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(Normal) Drampa|C ---> B: Drampa is underwhelming, but it's still an excellent win-condition against some of the best types right now (electric, psychic, water) by abusing Calm Mind, Roost, and Berserk Boosts. Drampa boasts much more offensive presence than your typical Normal-type and has a movepool as wide as the horizon. It's not perfect, but it deserves a B ranking alongside other underwhelming additions like Bewear.
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(Ghost) Golurk |A ---> B: I think with the addition of Alolan Marowak, Golurk has found itself outclassed on most fronts. Since Marowak hits significantly harder and has more useful resists (Fire, Fairy, Grass, Ice, Steel), Golurk's only real defining feature is Dynamic Punch; and even that was indirectly nerfed this gen with the reduced confusion chance. Rocks resistance is handy, but I think Golurk is better suited to B-ranking now.
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(Ice) Cloyster | B ---> A: While playing around with Aurora Veil and set up, I found Cloyster was a far more potent abuser of screens than Sandslash or Beartic. With Screens Cloyster has much more freedom in item (not having to run Sash) and can run King's Rock or Life Orb or even Z-moves. I think Cloyster's blossomed into an A-rank threat.
Beartic | A ---> B: I was hugely underwhelmed with Slush Rush Ice Offense; i feel it doesn't outperform pre-existing offensive Ice Builds. But while Alola-Sandslash offers a plethora of resists, ground coverage, and rapid spin; Beartic is slower, frailer (on special side), and is all around crap. Even with Slush Rush, I believe Beartic is a B-rank at best.
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(Fairy) Clefable | S ---> A: With the mounting power creep and general shift to offense this generation, Clefable isn't as effective in the metagame as it once was. Clefable is still excellent, whether utilized as a rocker, a Calm Mind Win-condition, an Unaware set-up counter or some combination of the 3. But it's not a S-rank anymore, I feel: it's not as meta-defining and essential to the type as the others of that rank.
Ninetales-Alola | C ---> B: While Alola-Ninetales may not seem to offer Fairy much, powerful ice STAB and Weather Disruption gives Fairy a large advantage against Ground Teams (and SS water) while serving as a strong lead and Screens Setter. I feel these attributes put Ninetales on similar ground as other B-ranked mons for Fairy.
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(Flying) Togekiss | A ---> B: Togekiss isn't as great a Special Wall as it once was, now competing with not only Zapdos but Mantine as well. It simply isn't as effective in the current meta-game, especially with so much Steel afoot. Stallbreaker sets may have some use, but Delta Airlines isn't worth A rank anymore.
---
(Poison) Salazzle | C ---> B: As much as I dislike Salazzle, it's not a C-rank. Salazzle's handy fire STAB allows it to check troublesome pokemon for poison, namely Mega-Metagross and Celesteela. It's also capable of crippling defensive threats like Heatran, Toxapex, Mega-Venusaur, and Celesteela with Toxic, thanks to it's ability Corrosion (though doing so without taking heavy damage is tricky). It's worthy of a B-ranking.
Nihilego | S ---> A: This might be a contentious opinion, but I don't feel Nihilego is S-rank worthy on Poison. It's strong, versatile, and offers the type a lot of bulk and offensive presence. But it isn't essential for a Poison team, facing stiff competition from Gengar, Salazzle, and the Nidotwins. Nor is Nihilego as Meta-Defining as Mega-Venusaur or Toxapex. A-rank is far more suiting, IMO.
Dragalge | B ---> C: Dragalge offers little to Poison: Toxapex surpassing it as a T-spike setter, Phazer, and Fire resist. It can Wallbreak, but Drag's woeful speed and impotence against Steel-types make it difficult to support or abuse. It's more fitting as a C-rank.
So I'll kick things off with a spirited discussion on Nihilego, as its ranking is still a bit fuzzy to me on both types:
Poison: Nihilego is the first rock/poison type, and as such is the first poison type to resist flying (particularly handy vs. Hurricane / Air Slash spam that would normally terrify Mega-Venusaur). It also takes many special attacks like a champ even w/ no investment; unless you are eating a powerful SE attack, chances are you won't get OHKOd on the special side. The two sets that are the most common are all-out attacker (with specs/scarf/AV, 4 attacking moves which usually consist of Power Gem and 3 attacks to round out your coverage as this thing gets psychic/fairy/electric/grass coverage in addition to hidden power and a strong 2nd STAB), or suicide lead (kind of a waste of its potential IMO but it still does this well w/ tspikes and SR).
While this is usually a solid choice for your team, in my opinion it is in the same boat as pokemon like Gengar/Nido/Scoli in that while it would love a place on the team, it may not always work out in the interest of covering other metagame threats. Further, it is almost a liability vs. ground and steel, which are two matchups poison can't really afford one of their teamslots to be a liability. I am personally leaning towards A rank on poison but would love to hear reasoning on why I'm wrong..
Rock: Nihilego imo is more appreciated here as it is a speedy special attacker with great special tanking capabilities (what more could Rock ask for?) The strongest Power Gem in the game, Beast Boost helping with power or speed (depending on your needs), and more importantly the sheer wall-ness of it under sand (with AV, sand and minimal EV investment it can survive LO lando-i Earth Power and KOs right back w/ HP ice, which is insanely useful for a rock team). There are things that Omastar does better and it may not be prudent to have 2 scarfers or 2 dedicated special attackers on the Rock team, but here I am personally leaning closer to S rank. Again, would love to hear arguments on why it should stay at A instead...
Having played current Rock, Nihilego is a godsend for the type after the loss of Mega Diancie. It covers the role of a special attacker, and is one of the few Rock Pokemon to be able to actually OHKO Tabu Bulu, a massive threat to the type. Despite this, Rock teams that run Nihilego will find themselves in an even harder disadvantage against Steel, because of the fact that Nihilego simply lacks the coverage to actually hit Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Heatran and even Magnezone for real damage. Unlike other S tier pokemon on Rock, I don't believe Nihilego should be used on ALL Rock teams, as the choice on whether the Rock team wants to do better vs Ground and Steel (Omastar) or Water and Grass (Nihilego) should be what determines the special attacker the team wants to use. Because of that, I feel it should stay A.
(As a side note, not saying that Rock teams can't use both Omastar AND Nihilego, but usually this causes problems with using the rest of the teamslots, as Tyranitar and Terrakion are basically guranteed a slot, usually Rhyperior should be used, and by then only one slot for webs/cradily/lycanroc/aerodactyl is left.)
I have to disagree on Lycanroc going down to C. Rock, back in gen 6, basically was forced to run Sticky Webs in order to have any sort of Speed Control. When Gen 7 dropped, the meta became much more offensive and it was really hard for Rock to reliably handle all the threats thrown at it. Because of this, Lycanroc was a good get. Thanks to Lycanroc being added to Rock, it could afford to run a much more offensive play style in order to keep up with the new metagame. While it's true that it's coverage leaves something to be desired, it still had a few key roles on the current Metagame. From sweeping weakened Psychic teams past their scarfers to checking incredibly difficult to deal with threats such as Sand Rush Excadrill, it does have a good niche. I will agree, however, that's its lackluster movepool and not quite high enough Attack stat warrant it going down to B rank.
Tyranitar (Dark) S => A
While Tyranitar is a really good Pokemon and perhaps one of the best hazard setters on Dark, it should not be S ranked. The bonus it provides with weather only really benefits Mandibuzz, Bisharp, and Krookodile. Furthermore, its typing doesn't really benefit Dark at all, and it becomes deadweight in Fighting matchups, losing to really common threats in the metagame as well. It's a great offensive Pokemon with leading and phazing capabilities, but I feel like it deserves the A rank due to its detrimental typing, with common weaknesses to Steel, Water, Ground, Fighting, Fairy, Grass (all of these being some of the most popular types right now, save for Fighting and Grass).
Victini (Psychic) S => A
Looking at Victini on this list, it's definitely not as influential as other S ranked Pokemon like Mega Metagross and Hoopa-Unbound. While it is a terrific wallbreaker whose typing helps out Psychic a lot, Victini shines the most on Sun teams which utilize its wallbreaking potential better. It does have great coverage, U-turn, and good bulk, but Victini is definitely not a metagame-defining Pokemon on Psychic. You can easily make a successful team without it, and for its good traits I believe it should fall to A rank.
Lycanroc (Rock) A => C
Lycanroc may look like a very viable option on Rock, being the first Sand Rush Pokemon the type has access to, with a decent attack stat and Swords Dance. However, Lycanroc is simply just not good. Its poor bulk makes setting up almost impossible, and on top of that, its coverage is laughably bad, being one of the only Rock types to not learn Earthquake, and being forced to run moves like Brick Break. It's almost completely outclassed by Terrakion, which has significantly better bulk and attack, and an infinitely better movepool. It doesn't offer anything to Rock other than some Speed control, which Rock already has better options for, such as Mega Aerodactyl, Minior, and Scarf Terrakion. Because Lycanroc still has a small niche in being able to get a x2 Speed and x1.5 Special Defense boost in the sand, it should stay at a C rank.
Kommo-o (Fighting) B => A
Kommo-o was such a great addition for Fighting teams, it's pretty hard to pass up when making a team. It has the ability to check many things that threaten Fighting, specifically Mega Venusaur. Its typing gives it useful resistances to Water, Electric, Fire, and Grass, which can all be tedious matchups for Fighting. The fact that it's a great special attacker alone can be enough to warrant a spot on a team- it's an excellent Scald absorber since it doesn't really mind burns. Another good thing about it is how unpredictable it can be, running sets like Autotomize, Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, and Choice sets. Its great bulk doesn't have to be mentioned. Fighting doesn't have many threats that can legitimately set up and tank hits while doing so. While it has a glaring Fairy weakness, as well as underwhelming offense at times, its good qualities and great coverage for Fighting teams make me think it should be A rank.
I respectfully disagree with these nominations. However, it's clear here that you didn't do very much research on any of these and why they play as huge as a role as they do (and a lot of the disadvantages of using others) Let me explain why:
First off, do you know how many SR setters there are on Dark? It's essentially Ttar and Krook, that's really it out of the viable ones. It's also a fantastic Special Defensive tank with much needed Fire coverage, and access to Twave o be able to slow down a variety of threats.
Victini is also the best scarfer to run on Psychic, being able to cover a team's Bug weakness, and access to Bolt strike to check Mega Sharpedo and (Mega) Gyarados at +1. It additionally has access to a variety of coverage to fit a teams particular needs. Nothing can really beat out Victini's ability as an offensive pivot. Also, every successful Psychic team runs Victini.
Lycanroc Bit addressed, I'd refer to his post on that because he summed it up well.
Kommo-o I also disagree with due to underwhelming offenses, and the fact that it usually needs to boost something in order to have major use. You also stack a hefty 4x fairy weakness, which doesn't really benefit you. As for some of the matchups you mentioned, Keldeo, Breloom, and Heracross/Buzzwole already can handle a very significant majority of these.
I have to disagree on Lycanroc going down to C. Rock, back in gen 6, basically was forced to run Sticky Webs in order to have any sort of Speed Control. When Gen 7 dropped, the meta became much more offensive and it was really hard for Rock to reliably handle all the threats thrown at it. Because of this, Lycanroc was a good get. Thanks to Lycanroc being added to Rock, it could afford to run a much more offensive play style in order to keep up with the new metagame. While it's true that it's coverage leaves something to be desired, it still had a few key roles on the current Metagame. From sweeping weakened Psychic teams past their scarfers to checking incredibly difficult to deal with threats such as Sand Rush Excadrill, it does have a good niche. I will agree, however, that's its lackluster movepool and not quite high enough Attack stat warrant it going down to B rank.
I addressed the good points about it. The fact that it's decent speed control in sand is the only reason it should be ranked, and even then, I mentioned three VERY good Speed Control Pokemon, 2 of which Rock never used in gen 6, and all of which are obviously better than Lycanroc:
Minior
If you go to the Monotype Speed Tiers thread, you will find that Minior is at the very top, reaching a ridiculous amount of Speed after one single Shell Smash. It takes a turn to set up, but as far as speed control goes, they are comparable (of course, Minior shines in literally every other aspect), which is why Lycanroc should not be used over these Pokemon.
Mega Aerodactyl
Again, an excellent speed control Pokemon, outspeeding relevant threats like Tapu Koko, base 110s and 120s.
Scarf Terrakion
An old threat that we already know how good it can be, so no need to explain this one.
So I disagree with the B rank, as it doesn't do anything these three can do.
Um... I'll be completely honest with you. I don't think Minior is very good on Rock. The fact is, Rock is a type that already has 5 weaknesses that it struggles to cover. The only resistance to those weaknesses provided by Minior is a resistance to Grass, which on some teams Cradily already does, and a resistance to Steel, which doesn't help since it's only coverage for that type is Earthquake. Minior only becomes fast when it's in it's Meteor form, but honestly most Monotype teams have threats to OHKO Minior after it shell smashes which Rock teams already have issues covering. Personally, I don't believe Minior is worth a valuable teamslot on most Rock teams, as it simply lacks the damage output without losing half its HP, and even when it DOES get to it's Meteor form it's usually revenge killed! (On basic terms, Rock lacks the support for Minior to function as well as it does on Flying)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-502150884
A recent replay from the Sun and Moon tournament, in which doubleswitches tries to utilize Minior against Flying. As you can see, iexca had no issues checking Minior with Celesteela, and Minior outside it's Meteor form only did 35% to Celesteela after a shell smash and was OHKO'd by Heavy Slam.
I agree with you, Mega Aerodactyl teams would probably have issues utilizing Lycanroc due to lack of teamslots. However, the choice resides on how much Speed Control you'll actually get. Lycanroc in sand outspeeds relevant threats like Alolan Raichu, and fast pokemon like Lati@s. While Mega Aerodactly does indeed do the same, it fails to outspeed common scarfers like Victini, forcing it to switch and losing valuable momentum. Alongside this, I personally feel Mega Aerodactyl lacks power and it's Flying coverage is lackluster, making it a difficult decision on what teamslot to give it.
Finally, I don't see why you can't use Scarf Terrakion along with Lycanroc as a cleaner after it has weakened the other's checks.
Um... I'll be completely honest with you. I don't think Minior is very good on Rock. The fact is, Rock is a type that already has 5 weaknesses that it struggles to cover. The only resistance to those weaknesses provided by Minior is a resistance to Grass, which on some teams Cradily already does, and a resistance to Steel, which doesn't help since it's only coverage for that type is Earthquake. Minior only becomes fast when it's in it's Meteor form, but honestly most Monotype teams have threats to OHKO Minior after it shell smashes which Rock teams already have issues covering. Personally, I don't believe Minior is worth a valuable teamslot on most Rock teams, as it simply lacks the damage output without losing half its HP, and even when it DOES get to it's Meteor form it's usually revenge killed! (On basic terms, Rock lacks the support for Minior to function as well as it does on Flying)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-502150884
A recent replay from the Sun and Moon tournament, in which doubleswitches tries to utilize Minior against Flying. As you can see, iexca had no issues checking Minior with Celesteela, and Minior outside it's Meteor form only did 35% to Celesteela after a shell smash and was OHKO'd by Heavy Slam.
I agree with you, Mega Aerodactyl teams would probably have issues utilizing Lycanroc due to lack of teamslots. However, the choice resides on how much Speed Control you'll actually get. Lycanroc in sand outspeeds relevant threats like Alolan Raichu, and fast pokemon like Lati@s. While Mega Aerodactly does indeed do the same, it fails to outspeed common scarfers like Victini, forcing it to switch and losing valuable momentum. Alongside this, I personally feel Mega Aerodactyl lacks power and it's Flying coverage is lackluster, making it a difficult decision on what teamslot to give it.
Finally, I don't see why you can't use Scarf Terrakion along with Lycanroc as a cleaner after it has weakened the other's checks.
Minior's definitely great on Rock. It doesn't add to its defenses very much but it truly shines in its coverage (a ground immunity is still a ground immunity, though, and you missed it being neutral to Fighting, which it takes advantage of very well), being one of the best checks to Fighting types. As long as it can live one attack from a Fighting mon, which shouldn't be hard, it can clean many Fighting teams with Acrobatics after a Shell Smash. It's only really stopped by Breloom and Focus Sash users if rocks aren't up (Minior can't be statused in its shield form, however). It also can beat Grass, a type that troubles ground, and acts as a very decent check to Mega Venusaur. Lastly, Minior can switch into Earthquakes, which can be useful against things like Choice Band Excadrill. There's some matchups it doesn't excel that much in, notably Flying, as seen from the replay, but that's a matchup that Rock generally doesn't need to worry about that much (especially since Mega Gyarados can't be used anymore), so where I'm going with this is that Minior should be A rank on rock.
Going back to Lycanroc, and looking at the replays you initially provided, I agree that, if we look solely at Speed Control, it's better than everything I mentioned. But I still stand by my statement due to the fact that speed control is everything Lycanroc is really good for, and the other things I compared it to are all better in other areas, such as setup sweeping in Minior's case, and sheer power in Aerodactyl and Terrakion's case.
Hmm. You're right, I forgot to mention the Ground immunity, which is fairly important for Rock! (I'm just used to using Balloon Omastar or Lead Aerodactyl, so I forget XD)
And as for your other point, I can't argue it lacks power and it doesn't setup sweep, which is why I feel it belongs in B rank:
"B rank Pokémon are great at what they do, but also have some issues that prevent them from being higher, such as some dependence on team support or partial outclassing by A or S rank Pokémon, but this doesn't mean that they aren't good Pokémon."
You guys have done enough to get your thoughts out. The council will figure it out from here considering both sides and looking at both of your arguments. Let's move on.
Having played current Rock, Nihilego is a godsend for the type after the loss of Mega Diancie. It covers the role of a special attacker, and is one of the few Rock Pokemon to be able to actually OHKO Tabu Bulu, a massive threat to the type. Despite this, Rock teams that run Nihilego will find themselves in an even harder disadvantage against Steel, because of the fact that Nihilego simply lacks the coverage to actually hit Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Heatran and even Magnezone for real damage. Unlike other S tier pokemon on Rock, I don't believe Nihilego should be used on ALL Rock teams, as the choice on whether the Rock team wants to do better vs Ground and Steel (Omastar) or Water and Grass (Nihilego) should be what determines the special attacker the team wants to use. Because of that, I feel it should stay A.
(As a side note, not saying that Rock teams can't use both Omastar AND Nihilego, but usually this causes problems with using the rest of the teamslots, as Tyranitar and Terrakion are basically guranteed a slot, usually Rhyperior should be used, and by then only one slot for webs/cradily/lycanroc/aerodactyl is left.)
I think the main problems are the same as they are on poison, in that Nihilego can't really damage most ground and steel types reliably (something Omastar does very reliably, and after a shell smash Omastar does a number on Tapu Bulu as well w/ Ice Beam...)
That said, I think A rank is more suitable on Poison for Nihilego for the same reasons; it is a great pokemon but there are some teams that would prefer Gengar or Scarf Nidoking for their speedy special attacking needs... If there were an A+ rank, Nihilego would go there; ultimately though it's not a 'must-have' on the same level as Mega-Venusaur or Toxapex
I've been using Flying a lot and want to nom Mantine for S.
Mantine A->S
Aight I know Mantine isn't part of SkarmDos and isn't one of the best special wallbreakers in the metagame, but Mantine is making huge waves and is absolutely S-tier right now.
Every balance Flying team needs Mantine. With the current state of the metagame, not having Mantine is just about a suicide note. Water-type wallbreakers were the bane of ORAS Flying teams, as the likes of Keldeo and Kingdra couldn't be defensively checked. Now, with Choice Specs Greninja added to the mix, it's even worse. Mantine, though, outright counters all of them (barring exactly Hidden Power Electric Choice Specs Keldeo. Keldeo usage is pretty poor right now, though). Mantine also steps in as a Nidoking counter, barring the one person using Thunderbolt on it. Previously, Nidoking was a huge threat to balance Flying teams, being able to easily break right through the SkarmDos core. Mega Charizard Y is just a joke. Mantine comes in every time and eats it all up. Landorus without Rock Slide, looking at you Ground teams, also have no hope of getting through Mantine. And while Meloetta used to be able to run Psychic to break SkarmDos and deal substantial damage, it needs to run Psyshock to get through Mantine. And there are more wallbreakers that can break SkarmDos that Mantine now checks including Choice Specs Hydreigon.
In general, Mantine's ability to switch into Water- and Ice-types is just great for Flying. But it also greatly supports the SkarmDos core in ways outside of just being a switch-in. Mantine's ability to Defog reliably opens up Zapdos to run a SubToxic set, which I've personally been using to phenomenal success. All three of Skarmory + Zapdos + Mantineare so good at using Defog that you can really just put two on any of the three and have a very nice core. This versatility and team support is why Mantine is on the level of SkarmDos in my opinion. Given how absolutely necessary it is to run Mantine on any balance Flying, I think it's underrated in A. Just compare it to the very situational Celesteela and Togekiss. Celesteela and Togekiss are actually pretty hard to find room for, unlike Mantine which just has to be on the team every time. I don't think Mantine should be on that level when it's just as needed as Skarmory and Zapdos in SuMo. Try to build balance Flying without Mantine, you won't get very far.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 189-223 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 112-133 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 148-175 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 133-157 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- 95.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 147-174 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 136-161 (36.3 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Gravity)
+2 252 SpA Omastar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 121-143 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 208-246 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kommo-o (Fighting) B => A
Kommo-o was such a great addition for Fighting teams, it's pretty hard to pass up when making a team. It has the ability to check many things that threaten Fighting, specifically Mega Venusaur. Its typing gives it useful resistances to Water, Electric, Fire, and Grass, which can all be tedious matchups for Fighting. The fact that it's a great special attacker alone can be enough to warrant a spot on a team- it's an excellent Scald absorber since it doesn't really mind burns. Another good thing about it is how unpredictable it can be, running sets like Autotomize, Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, and Choice sets. Its great bulk doesn't have to be mentioned. Fighting doesn't have many threats that can legitimately set up and tank hits while doing so. While it has a glaring Fairy weakness, as well as underwhelming offense at times, its good qualities and great coverage for Fighting teams make me think it should be A rank.
As the one of the ONLY (relevant) Fighting Mono players, I agree with this, Kommo-o is an extremely versatile pokemon overall that can aid Fighting Monos tremendously and even sweep teams that are unprepared or with the right plays. I even won the recent OT with Fighting (somehow I didn't face a Fairy Mono xD). Sure, it struggles against Fairy Monos. Name one thing on Fighting that DOESN'T struggle against them. Exactly. Anyways, I believe that B Rank is too low and it should rise to A.
Time for a few nitpicks on high-ranked mons i disagree with
Bug
Armaldo S->A - I know this was a very controversial mon in ORAS, and i agreed with its S rank there. So, what changed? First off, Araquanid's introduction gave the type a much better Fire check, that had to rely a lot on Armaldo to check some threats like Victini. Also, with the type's leaning more towards a balanced build this gen, Armaldo's SR weakness and lack of recovery (so it's not hard to wear down) make it less appealing than other hazard removers like Mega-Scizor and Forretress, that also check all of the type's weaknesses that Armaldo used to check bar Fire.
Fairy
Clefable S->A - With the introduction of all new fairies and the harsh team slot competition, Clefable isn't as good as it used to be in Fairy monos. It's definitely not as vital for the type as other S-ranks like Klefki, Azumarill, Koko and Magearna, especially because of its single typing that dont benefit the type with more resistances. Don't get me wrong though, Clefable is still great, it just faces fierce competition from the likes of Magearna, Tapu Fini and Koko and other fairies as a Calm Mind (or just setup in general) sweeper. It also faces competition from Tapu Fini as a status absorber. It only has a few niches right now from what I've seen, setting up Stealth Rock and being a bulky CM sweeper.
Ghost
Mimikyu A->S - Mimikyu is a godsend for Ghost. It's ability to deal with annoying Dark types that are troublesome for the type is amazing. It can work as a Swords Dance attacker with perfect coverage outside of Pyroar in balanced builds, leaning towards checking Dark types without being weak in other matchups. It can also work as a Emergency sweep stopper in stall builds using Red Card, while having access to a plethora of status inflicting moves. Overall, a great mon that is mandatory on every serious Ghost team Golurk A->B - With the introduction of A-Marowak, Golurk lost its main niches as Stealth Rock setter, Electric immunity and Physical attacker. Right now, the only reason to use it is if you want to abuse A-Marowak's other ability, Rock Head in a more offensive build, a SR suicide lead or if you want Dynamic Punch. Not an A rank mon.
Grass
Tapu Bulu A->S - I'm on the fence on this one and this may be a long shot, so i can be convinced otherwise, but i feel that Tapu Bulu provides the type a whole different playstyle, while also working in balanced builds as a Wallbreaker with a scary Choice Band set, while also giving mons like Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur much appreciated recovery. With its ability Grassy Surge, Tapu Bulu provides teammates like Serperior the power boost they were missing to be very effective and make Grass be able to run a more offensively inclined build.
Time for a few nitpicks on high-ranked mons i disagree with
Bug
Armaldo S->A - I know this was a very controversial mon in ORAS, and i agreed with its S rank there. So, what changed? First off, Araquanid's introduction gave the type a much better Fire check, that had to rely a lot on Armaldo to check some threats like Victini. Also, with the type's leaning more towards a balanced build this gen, Armaldo's SR weakness and lack of recovery (so it's not hard to wear down) make it less appealing than other hazard removers like Mega-Scizor and Forretress, that also check all of the type's weaknesses that Armaldo used to check bar Fire.
Fairy
Clefable S->A - With the introduction of all new fairies and the harsh team slot competition, Clefable isn't as good as it used to be in Fairy monos. It's definitely not as vital for the type as other S-ranks like Klefki, Azumarill, Koko and Magearna, especially because of its single typing that dont benefit the type with more resistances. Don't get me wrong though, Clefable is still great, it just faces fierce competition from the likes of Magearna, Tapu Fini and Koko and other fairies as a Calm Mind (or just setup in general) sweeper. It also faces competition from Tapu Fini as a status absorber. It only has a few niches right now from what I've seen, setting up Stealth Rock and being a bulky CM sweeper.
Ghost
Mimikyu A->S - Mimikyu is a godsend for Ghost. It's ability to deal with annoying Dark types that are troublesome for the type is amazing. It can work as a Swords Dance attacker with perfect coverage outside of Pyroar in balanced builds, leaning towards checking Dark types without being weak in other matchups. It can also work as a Emergency sweep stopper in stall builds using Red Card, while having access to a plethora of status inflicting moves. Overall, a great mon that is mandatory on every serious Ghost team Golurk A->B - With the introduction of A-Marowak, Golurk lost its main niches as Stealth Rock setter, Electric immunity and Physical attacker. Right now, the only reason to use it is if you want to abuse A-Marowak's other ability, Rock Head in a more offensive build, a SR suicide lead or if you want Dynamic Punch. Not an A rank mon.
Grass
Tapu Bulu A->S - I'm on the fence on this one and this may be a long shot, so i can be convinced otherwise, but i feel that Tapu Bulu provides the type a whole different playstyle, while also working in balanced builds as a Wallbreaker with a scary Choice Band set, while also giving mons like Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur much appreciated recovery. With its ability Grassy Surge, Tapu Bulu provides teammates like Serperior the power boost they were missing to be very effective and make Grass be able to run a more offensively inclined build.
I agree with almost all of these, but there's a few things in particular I wanna bring up.
With your Armaldo nomination, one of the biggest reasons to use Forretress in the first place alongside Araquanid is Hazard Stack (being able to set up SR, Spikes, and/or Toxic Spikes all with one Pokemon), and it has access to Volt Switch to provide some nice slow momentum, all of these traits which Armaldo lacks. Back in gen 6, I did (eventually) agree with its nomination to S rank due to its ability to help check Fire to an extent, however with Araquanid, there's almost no point in using Armaldo in conjunction with it since your not getting many extra buffs (besides Rock coverage or Knock Off). They're almost on even slate now that Araquanid gains the niche of becoming the best Fire check, and there isn't exactly a superior spinner now, despite Bug desperate need to hazard control (which technically you could pop Defensive Scizor in the mix as well, Tyke managed to make a pretty successful team with it). I feel mentioning what Forretress has over Armaldo can be added to Czim's argument to further enforce it.
I also want to touch up on your Golurk nomination as well. The only real reason to use Golurk at this point is for Dynamic Punch, which is pretty haxy as it is, and really can't be relied on. Marowak is significantly more powerful thanks to the Thick Club, and it can run a pretty decent handful of varying sets, making it in a sense unpredictable (think about it: Bulky Sp. Def SR setter, all-out attacker with SR, Rock Head to be able to spam crazy recoiless Flare Blitz, and there may be a couple I'm forgetting even).
The only nomination I disagree with, and you said you were pretty unsure about it as well, is Tapu Bulu. The biggest thing that hinders it I feel is the fact that its as slow as it is (where is where it and Whimsicott can technically be interchangeable, provide different utilities to the team, and basically be equally as viable). There's also the fact that Grassy Terrain heals everyones health, which can more or less be a double edged sword. If there were ranks within the letter rankings, I'd put it at a solid A+, however, it isn't enough to define what Grass teams are, and it is not a necessity to run it.
While I'm at it, I'd like to re-post about a couple nominations I made not too long ago since neither were ever addressed, as well as talk about a new one.
Ninetales A-> S (Ice): This is a Pokemon I've been hyped for since it got introduced. With base 109 speed tier just barely outspeeding every non-scarfed Fighting type Pokemon, Alolan Ninetales is a god-sent Pokemon. The fact that it has access to Snow Warning, which can help support Alolan Sandslash and Beartic, as well as allow it to set up Aurora Veil, it's an amazing asset to use on Ice. It can also run a variety of sets, with Choice Scarf being able to outspeed Scarf Terrakion, Choice Specs/LO allowing it to be a pretty good late game sweeper, boosting its unfortunately mediocre Special Attack, and as I mentioned it has access to Aurora Veil, which can halve the damage done to itself and its team mates for a maximum of 8 turns. It can also run other nifty ultility moves such as Encore and Disable, and it also has access to Freeze Dry to take out bulky Water types. Overall, I feel this Pokemon is very deserving of being an influential part of Ice teams, and there's very little reason why it shouldn't, especially with the introduction of Slush Rush. I'll pass a set I've been personally using, getting quite a bit of success.
The point of this is for it to be a hail setter, as well as a reliable Aurora Veil setter. Aurora Veil is no joke, it's able to provide so much to ice teams you wouldn't get with out it, suck as: Avalugg can now effectively check non-banded Terrakion's Close Combat, Lapras/Walrein won't die to a +3 Mega Scizor/Banded Scizor lacking Superpower, Kyurem-B is less likely to be successfully revenge killed by Mach Punch, Piloswine/Walrein can better tank Fire Attacks, thus increasing longevity, ect.). Other than being able to set up that, it can in some situations be able to easily set up Nasty Plot to double its mediocre Special Attack, making it a much bigger threat to deal with, and be able to land 2KOs/OHKOs it would otherwise not be able to do.
Mega Garchomp B->A (Ground): I mentioned a bit of ways ago shortly after the VR revamp that I was necessarily sure why this was dropped. Sand teams are still extremely prevalent, and with Zygarde now gone entirely, aside from a Water Absorber and Torterra, this is one of the best options to help against Water teams. Under Sandstorm it boasts an extremely strong STAB Earthquake with the ability to 2KO Slowbro, and it has access to a strong Fire Blast for excellent mixed coverage, further helping it to hit things such as Skarmory. Stone Edge is also further boosted in the Sandstorm, and prior to Mega evolution it can check timid Mega Charizard Y. Additionally, Swords Dance is an extremely viable set to use to further its wallbreaking capabilities to insane levels. I really don't get why that was dropped, I would put it back at A rank.
Mega Garchomp A->B (Dragon): Funny enough, I don't exactly agree with this either (oh the irony!). Regular Garchomp (BulkChomp sets especially) really outclass this, especially in terms of racking up recoil damage with Rocky Helment + Rough Skin, and there isn't exactly much of a reason to use this instead (aside from to take up a Mega slot). Even with offensive Swords Dance sets, Regular Garchomp also outclasses that there technically due to its superior speed tier. So really, the only thing you're getting out of this is possibly stronger mixed coverage, but even with that, there are plenty of special options for breaking certain walls for Dragon teams to the extent where there really is no point to even bother with this. That's why I'm vouching for a lower rank--it is not on par with Latias or Hydreigon, who have much bigger niches that Dragon teams can abuse.
One more additional thing I'd like to ask Vid, when are we allowed to talk about lower ranks again, just wondering?
Just posting quick thoughts
Bewear A=>B (Normal)
Although the bear can hit hard with its superior stab coverage I really think it's not worth an A rank because it is so damn slow. In steel match ups it gets outsped by almost the entire team and is only really hitting skarm since celesteela runs flamethrower which can easily KO bewear since its 2x effective. Rock versus normal is the only match up it has some use since rock has no real switch ins to it thus warranting it to be a B rank mon. Furthermore, this thing has half the utility of diggersby since SD LO diggersby is such a threat right now especially if you are jolly since you can out speed heatran skarm magearna cekesteela and nuke them with se coverage. Also diggersby has access to quick attack and a much stronger presence against ghost and dark which have mega sableye which otherwise roflstomps normal unless you have cm dgleam meloetta or some other dramatic innovation. Furthermore, most top tier types can shutdown bewear quite easily as psychic smashes it, flying likewise, water as well and it also just makes toxqpex a larger annoyance.
TLDR- bear is only good in one match up does not justify A rank.
Since some people can't read and or listen. Tagging Dream Eater Gengar and scpinion to clean this thread up and moderate accordingly Dandy Highwayman please PM viability council your Haunter nomination instead of posting in the thread.
Also edited the OP to more clearly reflect the goals of the early Sun and Moon VR In the future please don't post about lower rank Pokemon, instead PM Viability Rankings council (this rule is only temprorary until the metagame settles)
An update to the VR should be coming in two to three days
Just posting quick thoughts
Bewear A=>B (Normal)
Although the bear can hit hard with its superior stab coverage I really think it's not worth an A rank because it is so damn slow. In steel match ups it gets outsped by almost the entire team and is only really hitting skarm since celesteela runs flamethrower which can easily KO bewear since its 2x effective. Rock versus normal is the only match up it has some use since rock has no real switch ins to it thus warranting it to be a B rank mon. Furthermore, this thing has half the utility of diggersby since SD LO diggersby is such a threat right now especially if you are jolly since you can out speed heatran skarm magearna cekesteela and nuke them with se coverage. Also diggersby has access to quick attack and a much stronger presence against ghost and dark which have mega sableye which otherwise roflstomps normal unless you have cm dgleam meloetta or some other dramatic innovation. Furthermore, most top tier types can shutdown bewear quite easily as psychic smashes it, flying likewise, water as well and it also just makes toxqpex a larger annoyance.
TLDR- bear is only good in one match up does not justify A rank.
I disagree with this. Bewear is not only a good wincon vs Steel when paired with Diggersby (which is a tedious matchup for Normal) but is an amazing Pokemon by itself that functions as an extremely bulky physical pivot. On your Celesteela thing, you should have opened a damage calculator since Celesteela doesn't "easily KO" Bewear at all.
252+ SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bewear: 142-168 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93.9% chance to 3HKO (After running some calcs, it seems that Fluffy is not being implemented correctly in the damage calculator. Bewear still lives a 252 Modest Flamethrower from Celesteela and proceeds to heavily dent it with Thunder Punch.)
Rock vs Normal is definitely NOT the only matchup it has some use on. Are you saying it is literally useless on all 17 other matchups? Again, Bewear is one of the bulkiest pivots in the entire game, and also one of the best wallbreakers Normal has. Its offensive movepool, which is VERY colorful, allow it to be a factor in MANY matchups, most notably Ice, Flying, Ground, Rock, Steel, Dragon, Normal, Dark, Grass, and a few others I am forgetting. The combination of STAB Return and Superpower plus coverage such as Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Earthquake, and Rock Slide all make this possible.
I'm not sure why you only mentioned ONE matchup in Steel (one that it's a very good wincon in. not sure why that's not true just because of Heatran.) when it shines so much in so many matchups. The Diggersby comparison does not do it justice, they play much different roles and it is perfectly viable and recommended to use both. As a point you also basically said "it is weak to types that are super effective against it like psychic, flying (lol), and water. You specifically mention Toxapex on water which is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch. On Flying, it threatens a LOT of Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Dragonite, Skarmory, Mantine, and some Celesteela builds.
TLDR - Bewear can wallbreak very effectively and break a lot of types with its movepool and offensive typing as well as function as an incredibly effective pivot (I can't offer calcs since the ability Fluffy doesn't seem to work in the calculator, but we're talking about Kyurem-B's outrage, Diggersby's return, etc) and for these reasons it definitely should NOT be B ranked.
View attachment 75229 Mega-Gyarados (Water) B-----> A
I am not a huge Monotype player, but I decided to give it a shot during the last few days, and I've been wondering why Mega-Gyarados has been ranked so low for Water. I've went 29-3 and have reached Top 250 on the Monotype Ladder on PS (may change by the time you read this post) using this team, created by Alpha-Harpeet. After one Dragon Dance, it puts a lot of pressure on otherwise huge threats poised towards Mono-Water teams. This includes things like Defensive Mega-Venusaur and Life Orb Tapu Koko.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Venusaur-Mega: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 280-331 (99.6 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Another huge plus is that before Mega-Evolving, it can pull off an Intimidate, giving it even easier time to Substitute up against passive threats such as Chansey, Toxapex, Klefki, and Mega-Sableye.
Some negatives include the fact Mega-Gyarados really appreciates Heal Bell support so that once it gets statused, it doesn't become dead weight. Luckily Mono-Water teams can fit in Lanturn, which has good bulk and Volt Absorb, which any Mono-Water team can appreciate. Mega-Gyarados also has issues with Fairy types such as Azumarill, Tapu Fini, Klefki and Tapu Bulu. However, Mega-Gyarados has a wide range of options to run instead of Crunch, such as Ice Fang or Earthquake to better beat those threats. Overall, I think Mega-Gyarados has enough of a running in Monotype to warrant a raise to A.
So I made this post about a week back for nominating Mega-Gyarados to go from B---->A. It didn't receive much positive nor negative attention, but there was this follow-up post made by Arash. It said...
^not that i'm an expert on water or anything, but mega-gyara's rank seems strictly based on opportunity cost and team synergy. Nobody is going to doubt that mega-gyara is a great pokemon, but running it prevents you from running Mega-Sharpedo and Mega-Slowbro, which are both excellent options. Additionally, Ash-Greninja is an amazing pokemon and running it will double up on water/dark typing (which isn't as big of a deal with Sharpedo because it can protect to nab a +1 speed then start crunching things; Mega-Gyara isn't as effective without at least 1 DD under its belt)
One of the 2 main arguements found here was that if you want to run both Mega-Gyarados and Ash-Greninja, you'd be doubling up on weaknesses. This is, however, no longer the case, as Ash-Greninja has been banned.
I understand that running Mega-Gyarados prevents the usage of Mega-Sharpedo/Mega-Slowbro, and that missing out on them is a huge deal. However, when you're team building, you usually start with your Mega and go from there. You usually don't have 5 Pokemon picked out and then have to decide between which Water-Mega you want. I'd like to hear what you guys think about this, because I could honestly be swayed either way of Mega-Gyarados staying at B or moving up to A.
Electric
Alola-Raichu S->B: The reason I am suggesting it is because it does not have enough offense nor defense that can be useful. Surge surfer is a great ability, however in order to make it function properly a terrain extender on Tapu Koko would be necessary, hindering the arguably best electric type pokemon's ability to become an offensive pivot or sweeper. The offensive potential alola raichu can provide is also limited. With an under average 95 base Spa that 20 other usable electric pokemon laugh at, it does not do a great job overall against BO, balanced or stall. It's moveset also isn't so great, as its two main coverage moves, focus blast and surf, are not so useful for an electric team, and the last move grass knot has an unstable bp which can only hit hard against certain pokemon. The HO playstyle Alola-Raichu is good at isn't a major playstyle that electric uses since the type does not have enough pokemon to do so. Even the speed Alola-Raichu get isn't so great considering the fact that electric types usually have above average speed that when scarfed are usually quicker than other scarfs. By the down side, a trace can make your foe outspeed all your scarfs, which can be threatening.
You are underselling the incredible speed control Raichu's ability offers. While other electric types have great speed no other can outspeed almost the ENTIRE METAGAME under Electric Terrain: including all the common scarves and threats like Sand Rush Excadrill. And it doesn't need to sacrifice power or versatility to do so.
Raichu's STABs are powerful, Psychic able to break huge threats like Mega-Venusaur and Thunderbolt just being a reliable nuke under E-terrain. You are also discounting its coverage moves: Focus Blast, which hit several specialy defensive walls hard like Ferrothorn and Tyranitar and Surf, which hazards Ground Heavily.
It isn't broken, it can't OHKO the entire meta, but it's an absurdly fast cleaner for electric.
Also, Terrain Extender is banned, so that's not even a option on Tapu Koko, nor does it need to be for Raichu to function effectively..
I could only see Raichu dropping to A-rank (at the absolute minimum) if as the meta progresses balance electric rises in viability (possibly with released mega-evolutions) as Raichu does not fit very well onto those builds. But that is not the metagame we have now, and raichu is 10000% deserving of S-rank on Electric.
Electric
Alola-Raichu S->B: The reason I am suggesting it is because it does not have enough offense nor defense that can be useful. Surge surfer is a great ability, however in order to make it function properly a terrain extender on Tapu Koko would be necessary, hindering the arguably best electric type pokemon's ability to become an offensive pivot or sweeper. The offensive potential alola raichu can provide is also limited. With an under average 95 base Spa that 20 other usable electric pokemon laugh at, it does not do a great job overall against BO, balanced or stall. It's moveset also isn't so great, as its two main coverage moves, focus blast and surf, are not so useful for an electric team, and the last move grass knot has an unstable bp which can only hit hard against certain pokemon. The HO playstyle Alola-Raichu is good at isn't a major playstyle that electric uses since the type does not have enough pokemon to do so. Even the speed Alola-Raichu get isn't so great considering the fact that electric types usually have above average speed that when scarfed are usually quicker than other scarfs. By the down side, a trace can make your foe outspeed all your scarfs, which can be threatening.
First, Terrain Extender has been banned for a while now and people still use Alolachu on pretty much every serious Electric team, so it's obvious that Terrain Extender is not necessary for it to be good. This is partly because Electric teams are exceptional at pivoting. Most of them get Volt Switch and a few get U-Turn, so it's easy enough to bring in the appropriate threat if you can force switches.
Second, you're underestimating the importance of speed in the current meta. I'm pretty sure Alolachu is the fastest reasonably common pokemon in the metagame by a long shot, even after factoring in opposing Choice Scarf holders. That's a huge deal in an offensive metagame like ours. It's probably fair to say that the metagame is getting gradually less offensive as the more extreme threats get banned, but it's still fairly offense-oriented. In a metagame like that, being able to hit your opponent before they hit you is of utmost importance. It even outspeeds most setup sweepers.
Third, you claim Electric doesn't have the right pokemon to use a HO playstyle, but I'd argue most successful Electric teams nowadays are offensive or hyper offensive. Tapu Koko, Xurkitree, and Alolan Raichu have made Electric more than capable of utilizing offense. In addition, Alolan Golem's Stealth Rock aids the playstyle even more. Thundurus, Galvantula, and Magnezone are still huge threats just as they have been in the past. I don't understand how you could think Electric can't pull off a HO playstyle.
Lastly, Trace isn't a good argument for dropping Alolachu because it's so rare. In fact, part of the reason Mega Alakazam is more popular this gen is Alolan Raichu's presence, so I'd argue it's a sign that Alolachu is more of a threat than you're making it out to be.
I was kind of sniped by Tyke but I already had most of this typed out so I'm gonna post anyway.
