Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

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Dry Paratroopa said:
Steel resists Psychic, and Psychic doesn't resist Steel, so yes, Psychic STAB is weaker on steel than vice-versa. This is common knowledge that you apparently fail to have, which discredits all of your insults and makes you look like a fool. Also, most of your argument in your post is that type advantage is not auto-win, which is exactly what Articuno was saying, proving his point and generally being "in-adept and disappointing." You haven't even provided any of the Replays you claim to have.
Click to expand...

He used replays to make the point.
I find it disappointing.
I also found the way he used terms like 'pls go away' disappointing as well.

Please learn to follow threads, and not just look at the posts that catches your eye the most.
 
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Can I have a suspect test on Scizor itself vs Ice and probably Rock?

From the amount of games I have played as a competitive ice user, there are 5 threats to mono Ice that can single-handedly sweep by itself - Scizor, Excadrill, Mega Mawile, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr. Now, dealing with the 4 other Pokemon isn't too difficult that it's impossible. Scizor on the other hand, wipes everything Ice has_to offer after a Swords Dance boost while incapable of being 2HKOed by anything else. Very few things can hope to switch in and even try to dent Scizor a little.

As a demonstration, let's have the best defensive tank Ice can have, Avalugg:

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In response to that amount of damage:
4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is not about attempting to wall Scizor with the best tank available, it's just a demonstration of Scizor's capability to dent even the hardest tank available for mono Ice with only after one SD, and is perfectly capable of setting up even more when desired, as there are only two real checks (not counters) to Scizor, Rotom Frost and Walrein:

Rotom Frost vs. Scizor
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 428-504 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 153-181 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom Frost cannot switch in to non-Choiced Scizor, and instead has to either predict a Scizor's Swords Dance and switch in or wait for Scizor to knock out one Pokemon. Even then, Rotom cannot switch in to SR as it'll be a guaranteed OHKO. The Mega Scizor variant even has a one-third chance to OHKO Rotom Frost. So that pretty much leaves Walrein?

Walrein vs. Scizor
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.4 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 235-277 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Walrein has a slightly better edge, but neither can Walrein switch in to non-Choiced Scizor's incoming BP, and fails to 2HKO Scizor since it Scizor always uses BP as a finisher anyway, unless Walrein runs Choice Specs, which is rather unviable and if found out, can be walled by Heatran/Volcarona.

All other possible (and unviable for competitive) Special Attackers for mono Ice are utter jokes:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 480-566 (176.4 - 208%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 414-488 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glaceon: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 528-624 (187.2 - 221.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That leaves two other niche choices, Sash Counter Weavile and Sash Destiny Bond Froslass, unfortunately Stealth Rock is such a threat to Ice by itself, good opponents set out SR as often as possible while preventing Ice from Spinning or Defogging them out. Even if there isn't any SR and by some chance both choices are at Full HP, Scizor can only be delayed, not KO'ed, as both are extremely predictable sets for Ice. Mono Steel can just switch out to a different threat like Excadrill, Skarmory or Heatran. Roar Avalugg is not an option, since it is already loaded with more important moves like Rapid Spin, Recover, Avalanche and Earthquake.

Meanwhile Scizor deletes the rest of the competitive Ice Pokemons:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 518-612 (143 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 432-510 (110.4 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Anything less than Scarf 252 Atk 252 Speed Kyurem-Bs are unviable for Mono Ice.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 129-153 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Only thing Cloyster can do is to Rock Blast or Razor Shell for less than 50% of Scizor's health.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regice: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 432-510 (112.5 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While we're at it, let's throw in some Ice Ubers:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 368-434 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 470-554 (119.8 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

To sum this up, Scizor vs Mono Ice is pretty much Talonflame vs Mono Grass, there is hardly anything Ice can do to stop Scizor from rampaging, and the only possible check has the risk of being deleted by luck. I do not play Rock often, but I think Rock holds it up better since the majority of the tier have overall better Defenses, with access to Mega Aggron to deal with Scizor. Granted, I should have saved replays of Scizor rampaging through everything I can offer. I only have one replay involving Scizor here (which Rotom Frost survives by a non 252 Attack Mega Scizor, imagine if it didn't.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-140440009

I would wish to ask for advice from any players proficient in Ice to suggest me options that are viable and capable of handling Scizor. If there really isn't any, I would like to request a ban.
 
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MinekoLucky said:
Can I have a suspect test on Scizor itself vs Ice and probably Rock?

From the amount of games I have played as a competitive ice user, there are 5 threats to mono Ice that can single-handedly sweep by itself - Scizor, Excadrill, Mega Mawile, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr. Now, dealing with the 4 other Pokemon isn't too difficult that it's impossible. Scizor on the other hand, wipes everything Ice has_to offer after a Swords Dance boost while incapable of being 2HKOed by anything else. Very few things can hope to switch in and even try to dent Scizor a little.

As a demonstration, let's have the best defensive tank Ice can have, Avalugg:

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In response to that amount of damage:
4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is not about attempting to wall Scizor with the best tank available, it's just a demonstration of Scizor's capability to dent even the hardest tank available for mono Ice with only after one SD, and is perfectly capable of setting up even more when desired, as there are only two real checks (not counters) to Scizor, Rotom Frost and Walrein:

Rotom Frost vs. Scizor
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 428-504 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 153-181 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom Frost cannot switch in to non-Choiced Scizor, and instead has to either predict a Scizor's Swords Dance and switch in or wait for Scizor to knock out one Pokemon. Even then, Rotom cannot switch in to SR as it'll be a guaranteed OHKO. The Mega Scizor variant even has a one-third chance to OHKO Rotom Frost. So that pretty much leaves Walrein?

Walrein vs. Scizor
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.4 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 235-277 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Walrein has a slightly better edge, but neither can Walrein switch in to non-Choiced Scizor's incoming BP, and fails to 2HKO Scizor since it Scizor always uses BP as a finisher anyway, unless Walrein runs Choice Specs, which is rather unviable and if found out, can be walled by Heatran/Volcarona.

All other possible (and unviable for competitive) Special Attackers for mono Ice are utter jokes:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 480-566 (176.4 - 208%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 414-488 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glaceon: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 528-624 (187.2 - 221.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That leaves two other niche choices, Sash Counter Weavile and Sash Destiny Bond Froslass, unfortunately Stealth Rock is such a threat to Ice by itself, good opponents set out SR as often as possible while preventing Ice from Spinning or Defogging them out. Even if there isn't any SR and by some chance both choices are at Full HP, Scizor can only be delayed, not KO'ed, as both are extremely predictable sets for Ice. Mono Steel can just switch out to a different threat like Excadrill, Skarmory or Heatran. Roar Avalugg is not an option, since it is already loaded with more important moves like Rapid Spin, Recover, Avalanche and Earthquake.

Meanwhile Scizor deletes the rest of the competitive Ice Pokemons:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 518-612 (143 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 432-510 (110.4 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Anything less than Scarf 252 Atk 252 Speed Kyurem-Bs are unviable for Mono Ice.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 129-153 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Only thing Cloyster can do is to Rock Blast or Razor Shell for less than 50% of Scizor's health.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regice: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

To sum this up, Scizor vs Mono Ice is pretty much Talonflame vs Mono Grass, there is hardly anything Ice can do to stop Scizor from rampaging, and the only possible check has the risk of being deleted by luck. I do not play Rock often, but I think Rock holds it up better since the majority of the tier have overall better Defenses, with access to Mega Aggron to deal with Scizor. Granted, I should have saved replays of Scizor rampaging through everything I can offer. I only have one replay involving Scizor here (which Rotom Frost survives by a non 252 Attack Mega Scizor, imagine if it didn't.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-140440009
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This is a good point, and I agree we should have a look at it after we've dealt with Swift Swim. Something that comes to mind for when we do discuss it is running HP fire on cloyster over Hydro Pump, given some run mixed, but IDK if this would work either.

Micro Mercury you were comparing Fire vs. Bug to SS vs. Ground. While Fire has an advantage over bug, both sides have a pretty good chance if they prepared properly. On the other hand, while Ground can beat swift swim, the ground player needs to massively outclass the water player to stand a reasonable chance of this, which is why it's being suspected as it's very different to a mere type advantage.

Hollywood I think I've been persuaded to the side of a Damp Rock + Swift Swim ban instead. Teams were far more prepared for weather in Gen 5, and even for an offensive team it would be quite easy to stall out 4 turns of rain if played around well I think.
 
MinekoLucky said:
Can I have a suspect test on Scizor itself vs Ice and probably Rock?

From the amount of games I have played as a competitive ice user, there are 5 threats to mono Ice that can single-handedly sweep by itself - Scizor, Excadrill, Mega Mawile, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr. Now, dealing with the 4 other Pokemon isn't too difficult that it's impossible. Scizor on the other hand, wipes everything Ice has_to offer after a Swords Dance boost while incapable of being 2HKOed by anything else. Very few things can hope to switch in and even try to dent Scizor a little.

As a demonstration, let's have the best defensive tank Ice can have, Avalugg:

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In response to that amount of damage:
4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is not about attempting to wall Scizor with the best tank available, it's just a demonstration of Scizor's capability to dent even the hardest tank available for mono Ice with only after one SD, and is perfectly capable of setting up even more when desired, as there are only two real checks (not counters) to Scizor, Rotom Frost and Walrein:

Rotom Frost vs. Scizor
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 428-504 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 153-181 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom Frost cannot switch in to non-Choiced Scizor, and instead has to either predict a Scizor's Swords Dance and switch in or wait for Scizor to knock out one Pokemon. Even then, Rotom cannot switch in to SR as it'll be a guaranteed OHKO. The Mega Scizor variant even has a one-third chance to OHKO Rotom Frost. So that pretty much leaves Walrein?

Walrein vs. Scizor
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.4 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 235-277 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Walrein has a slightly better edge, but neither can Walrein switch in to non-Choiced Scizor's incoming BP, and fails to 2HKO Scizor since it Scizor always uses BP as a finisher anyway, unless Walrein runs Choice Specs, which is rather unviable and if found out, can be walled by Heatran/Volcarona.

All other possible (and unviable for competitive) Special Attackers for mono Ice are utter jokes:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 480-566 (176.4 - 208%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 414-488 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glaceon: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 528-624 (187.2 - 221.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That leaves two other niche choices, Sash Counter Weavile and Sash Destiny Bond Froslass, unfortunately Stealth Rock is such a threat to Ice by itself, good opponents set out SR as often as possible while preventing Ice from Spinning or Defogging them out. Even if there isn't any SR and by some chance both choices are at Full HP, Scizor can only be delayed, not KO'ed, as both are extremely predictable sets for Ice. Mono Steel can just switch out to a different threat like Excadrill, Skarmory or Heatran. Roar Avalugg is not an option, since it is already loaded with more important moves like Rapid Spin, Recover, Avalanche and Earthquake.

Meanwhile Scizor deletes the rest of the competitive Ice Pokemons:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 518-612 (143 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 432-510 (110.4 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Anything less than Scarf 252 Atk 252 Speed Kyurem-Bs are unviable for Mono Ice.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 129-153 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Only thing Cloyster can do is to Rock Blast or Razor Shell for less than 50% of Scizor's health.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regice: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 432-510 (112.5 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While we're at it, let's throw in some Ice Ubers:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 368-434 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 470-554 (119.8 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

To sum this up, Scizor vs Mono Ice is pretty much Talonflame vs Mono Grass, there is hardly anything Ice can do to stop Scizor from rampaging, and the only possible check has the risk of being deleted by luck. I do not play Rock often, but I think Rock holds it up better since the majority of the tier have overall better Defenses, with access to Mega Aggron to deal with Scizor. Granted, I should have saved replays of Scizor rampaging through everything I can offer. I only have one replay involving Scizor here (which Rotom Frost survives by a non 252 Attack Mega Scizor, imagine if it didn't.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-140440009

I would wish to ask for advice from any players proficient in Ice to suggest me options that are viable and capable of handling Scizor. If there really isn't any, I would like to request a ban.
Click to expand...

I can understand this situation very much. However, making a scizor ban would make more hate than love, so what I would request is allowing evasion moves for ice teams. With the added Snow Cloak Ability on some pokemons, a certain poke will be hard to hit.
 
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Micro Mercury said:
I can understand this situation very much. However, making a scizor ban would make more hate than love, so what I would request is allowing evasion moves for ice teams. With the added Snow Cloak Ability on some pokemons, a certain poke will be hard to hit.
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Snow Cloak is already unbanned, along with Sand Veil.

Relying on pure luck to survive something isn't called a viable strategy.
 
If you're running Mono-Ice, auto-losing to things like Scizor is something you're going to have to deal with. It is the worst playstyle in the metagame, and no amount of bans is going to make it good.
 
Scizor is also really only a threat to Mono-Ice in the first place.. most other types've got enough versatility to at least check it. Nothing like Talonflame, for instance.
 
Hollywood said:
If you're running Mono-Ice, auto-losing to things like Scizor is something you're going to have to deal with. It is the worst playstyle in the metagame, and no amount of bans is going to make it good.
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All other dangerous threats are controllable with correct play, it's just Scizor. How is it fair to disregard this issue just because it affects just one mono Type? Even if banning Scizor doesn't make Ice shine to high tier, I'm pretty sure it can sit on mid tier comfortably. Most people do not really play Ice seriously because it has mediocre resistances and limited options, while having weaknesses to many common offensive types, those few who do treat it seriously can do feats like winning on occasion, mono Steel, Flying, and SS Water. The way you dismiss Ice just like that is rather... disappointing.
 
Hollywood said:
If you'd read my post, I stated that I felt manual rain teams with Damp Rock are nearly as strong and deserve to be nerfed if we decide to take any action.
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That one turn of setting up Rain Dance makes a hell of a difference. Drizzle Swim is just so powerful because the user has instant rain at their command. Last gen, manual rain wasn't that big of a problem. The Metagame sure hasn't changed enough that manual Swift Swim would be as powerful as Drizzle Swim. Honestly, I haven't tried manual Swift Swim this gen, but I'm almost positive that it is underwhelming compared to its Drizzle Swim counter-part.
 
MinekoLucky said:
Snow Cloak is already unbanned, along with Sand Veil.

Relying on pure luck to survive something isn't called a viable strategy.
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I meant more moves like Let's say, Double team snow cloak Froslass :P
And luck is all it seems to be the forte for Ice.

I wouldn't mind Scizzor ban :3
I run fairies
 
While it'd be nice for all the types to be viable, in practice there's 18 of them and trying to get them all to be viable simply wouldn't be possible. I have to say that ice is still usable as Mega Scizor isn't particularly common from what I've seen: Bug prefers pinsir (and sometimes heracross) while steel prefers mawile in terms of megas. It may not be the best type for laddering however I think as a tournament team it still has potential to work well.
 
MinekoLucky said:
Rotom Frost vs. Scizor
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 428-504 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 153-181 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom Frost cannot switch in to non-Choiced Scizor, and instead has to either predict a Scizor's Swords Dance and switch in or wait for Scizor to knock out one Pokemon. Even then, Rotom cannot switch in to SR as it'll be a guaranteed OHKO. The Mega Scizor variant even has a one-third chance to OHKO Rotom Frost. So that pretty much leaves Walrein?
Click to expand...

How about this?

4 SpA Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 180-216 (52.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-F: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- 79.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-F: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Can come in as it BPs or dances and either finishes it off (if it's around half HP or less) or burns it so it's easier for the rest of your team to deal with

or

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Rotom-F: 192-226 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Rotom-F: 87-103 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
76+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(76 SpA / 180 Def Modest = 180 SpA / 76 Def Bold)

here's hoping avalugg gets foul play from tutors!
 
Pyritie said:
How about this?

4 SpA Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 180-216 (52.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-F: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- 79.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-F: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Can come in as it BPs or dances and either finishes it off (if it's around half HP or less) or burns it so it's easier for the rest of your team to deal with

or

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Rotom-F: 192-226 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Rotom-F: 87-103 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
76+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(76 SpA / 180 Def Modest = 180 SpA / 76 Def Bold)

here's hoping avalugg gets foul play from tutors!
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Hmm...

Out of all the silly ideas I get from players that don't even treat Ice like a proper monotype (Lovely Kiss Jynx, Watmel Berry Natural Gift Lapras, Explosion Sash Vanilluxe, Eviolite HP Fire Piloswine), this is the only one I find making some sense.

This brings me a new dilemma though. Should I sacrifice a potential Zapdos/Char X/Skarmory OHKO monster for a Scizor crippler that can probably give a free setup turn for Volcarona/Heatran? It's a rather tough decision to make. This makes it even more difficult since I don't run Mamoswine, but Hail/Blizzard spam, so no Stealth Rocks, just Froslass's Spikes.

Specs Rotom Frost vs Mono Flying:
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 280-330 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Charizard outspeeds, but cannot switch in to Blizzard or Volt Switch)
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 327-385 (97.9 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (Sturdy Skarmory dies to Hail after Volt Switch or a risk Hail-less Blizzard)
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zapdos: 414-488 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Support Rotom vs Mono Flying:
0 SpA Rotom-F Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 212-252 (63.4 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zapdos: 210-248 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Cannot handle Charizard.)

I can't really complain now since there's a possible (and only one) Scizor check... On the other hand, Foul Play on Avalugg can only dent Scizor respectably, but not outright remove it, sounds good nonetheless.
+2 4 Atk Avalugg Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 189-223 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I humbly thank you for an actually good idea. But I still have to check if it works out well.
 
So about the SS/Drizzle debate going on right now, I believe that banning Damp Rock completely will nerf SS/Drizzle well, but it likely won't be enough. 4-5 turns of rain is still enough to absolutely wreck monos with 5 SS users. I propose a slightly more complex ban, banning Damp Rock and limiting teams to only 1 SS user. This will heavily nerf all SS/Drizzle teams, making it more of a card to be used rather than the entire deck itself. Unprepared teams can still be fairly devastated depending on the SS user, but it will be easy to counter with good teambuilding and careful playing. Without having to worry about a switch from Kabutops to Kingdra while you switch to your Skarmory or such makes SS a lot easier to handle. Banning Damp Rock and limiting teams to 1 SS user will heavily nerf it, making it much easier to counter, while still letting it be a tool to be used, just like any other strategies in Monotype.
 
Honestly I don't know that a ban on damp rock is necessary when the thing that is breaking it is Swift Swim. I've seen people start drifting away from using Swift Swim, likely because of the stigma associated with running a Swift Swim team. Granted there are those few teams that want to abuse the ability as much as they can, but these people tend to rely on their rain setter for 8 free turns of rain. Taking Damp Rock away would certainly solve that issue, but at the same time it would ruin other water teams that use Politoed and Rain Dance users. However on the reverse side an outright ban on Swift Swim would take viability away from a few of the more common things water has. I think a limitation on Swift Swim itself is something better. I've seen fantastic water teams that only run one Swift Swim user. So that brings me to my proposal. Limit Swift Swim pokemon down to one per team, and keep damp rock where it is. As long as there's only one poke running swift swim, then bar the STAB water move increase, it's really no different than dealing with an Unburden user or an agility boost.
 
CapnSlinky, I still believe that a ban on Damp Rock is still best for the meta. With 8 turns (or is it 7?) of rain, even with only 1 SS'er, it can do much more damage than it would normally do. Those 3 turns allow say, a switch to Lanturn to heal bell away status, or that Lanturn can Volt Switch back to the SS'er to gain momentum, etc. Three turns don't seem like much, but it allows the SS'er to retreat and then come back and still do damage, with only one time that Politoed was actually in the game. In my opinion, both a ban on Damp Rock and a limit to 1 SS'er is what should be implemented to positively impact the meta. As I said earlier, the end result should allow SS/Drizzle to be a card to be played, and not the Ace of Spades. The Ace should, in the end, be the player's own teambuilding and battling skills. It should not be one aspect of the meta itself.
 
Croven said:
CapnSlinky, I still believe that a ban on Damp Rock is still best for the meta. With 8 turns (or is it 7?) of rain, even with only 1 SS'er, it can do much more damage than it would normally do. Those 3 turns allow say, a switch to Lanturn to heal bell away status, or that Lanturn can Volt Switch back to the SS'er to gain momentum, etc. Three turns don't seem like much, but it allows the SS'er to retreat and then come back and still do damage, with only one time that Politoed was actually in the game. In my opinion, both a ban on Damp Rock and a limit to 1 SS'er is what should be implemented to positively impact the meta. As I said earlier, the end result should allow SS/Drizzle to be a card to be played, and not the Ace of Spades. The Ace should, in the end, be the player's own teambuilding and battling skills. It should not be one aspect of the meta itself.
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I dont feel like a damp rock ban would really nerd swift swim that much. 5 turns is still 5 turns of rain where a specs kingdra can wreck havoc, or an sd kabutops can just sweep for a couple of turns. The only way to ban ss is to ban drizzle mixed with swift swim. If you want to use rain dance swift siwm i dont think it would be as effective but it could still work.
 
Hollywood said:
The difference is that in BW, rain was permanent. This is a lot different, and based on my experiences playing with Swift Swim offense, it would be considerably worse without Damp Rock. The extra three turns of rain is just so huge and gives you so much more time to break down the opposing team or clean it up. With only five turns, you can still use the playstyle and succeed with it, but it's not nearly as powerful. Basically, banning only Damp Rock would nerf the playstyle without making it unviable. Damp Rock manual rain is still nearly as good as it with Damp Rock Politoed. It's just played differently as a more balanced offensive team with a couple bulkier setters and/or a suicide setter such as Stealth Rock + Rain Dance Omastar or Seismitoad.

Drizzle + Swift Swim is also generally fine so long as you don't get eight turns every time Politoed comes out. With only five turns, you have to spend a turn switching, which lowers it down to four turns after Politoed comes out unless it dies the same turn it comes out, in which case, you no longer have Politoed to come back and set rain again later. Being forced to switch out all the time is a tremendous momentum killer, which is a problem when you're playing with an offensive team.

I definitely believe that just banning Damp Rock would solve the problem without hurting a playstyle that can be balanced in this metagame. However, we do ban Damp Rock and I'm wrong, we can look into banning Drizzle or Swift Swim instead.
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That could work, but the best SS users I've seen always save Politoed and sack the least useful Swift Swimmer / Pokemon on their team. Also, Water has bulky pivots (Slowbro / Slowking, Lanturn, Quagsire, Rotom-W etc) letting the Swift Swimmer have a pontential safe switch in. By then you've wasted 2 turns (Switching out Poli, Volt Switching / Switching your pivot out.) but 3 turns is plenty to blast a hole in your opponent's team. SS was never that bulky in the first place, so they had to kill the opposing Pokemon with one move (Highly possible). If your opponent switches out into a wall, chances are they'll be 2HKOed thus leaving you with one last turn to create havoc.
Yes, banning Damp Rock forces more Politoed switch ins, but Politoed has the bulk to live most non supper-effective moves (With investment ofc). Also, if you play fancy you can switch in the appropriate pivot (Lanturn into Thundurus, Quag into Dragonite) then continue to Scald, or predict a switch and Volt Turn right back into Politoed.
Also, if you ban Damp Rock, SS will adapt and change to support Politoed more. Imo, it'll change to something like this: Politoed, Kabutops, Kingdra / Ludicolo, Special Pivot, Physical Pivot, Keldeo. Yes, you can have another Swift Swimmer instead of Keldeo, but then you'd be hardcore walled by Umbreon, Ferrothorn and Normal Monos.
So I'd say go with Aldaron's Proposal. If they can set it up, congrats to you. You deserve to sweep~
 
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MinekoLucky said:
Can I have a suspect test on Scizor itself vs Ice and probably Rock?

From the amount of games I have played as a competitive ice user, there are 5 threats to mono Ice that can single-handedly sweep by itself - Scizor, Excadrill, Mega Mawile, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr. Now, dealing with the 4 other Pokemon isn't too difficult that it's impossible. Scizor on the other hand, wipes everything Ice has_to offer after a Swords Dance boost while incapable of being 2HKOed by anything else. Very few things can hope to switch in and even try to dent Scizor a little.

As a demonstration, let's have the best defensive tank Ice can have, Avalugg:

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In response to that amount of damage:
4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

This is not about attempting to wall Scizor with the best tank available, it's just a demonstration of Scizor's capability to dent even the hardest tank available for mono Ice with only after one SD, and is perfectly capable of setting up even more when desired, as there are only two real checks (not counters) to Scizor, Rotom Frost and Walrein:

Rotom Frost vs. Scizor
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 428-504 (124.4 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
200+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-F Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 356-420 (103.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 153-181 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (80 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom Frost cannot switch in to non-Choiced Scizor, and instead has to either predict a Scizor's Swords Dance and switch in or wait for Scizor to knock out one Pokemon. Even then, Rotom cannot switch in to SR as it'll be a guaranteed OHKO. The Mega Scizor variant even has a one-third chance to OHKO Rotom Frost. So that pretty much leaves Walrein?

Walrein vs. Scizor
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.4 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 235-277 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 262-309 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Walrein has a slightly better edge, but neither can Walrein switch in to non-Choiced Scizor's incoming BP, and fails to 2HKO Scizor since it Scizor always uses BP as a finisher anyway, unless Walrein runs Choice Specs, which is rather unviable and if found out, can be walled by Heatran/Volcarona.

All other possible (and unviable for competitive) Special Attackers for mono Ice are utter jokes:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 480-566 (176.4 - 208%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 414-488 (107.8 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glaceon: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 528-624 (187.2 - 221.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That leaves two other niche choices, Sash Counter Weavile and Sash Destiny Bond Froslass, unfortunately Stealth Rock is such a threat to Ice by itself, good opponents set out SR as often as possible while preventing Ice from Spinning or Defogging them out. Even if there isn't any SR and by some chance both choices are at Full HP, Scizor can only be delayed, not KO'ed, as both are extremely predictable sets for Ice. Mono Steel can just switch out to a different threat like Excadrill, Skarmory or Heatran. Roar Avalugg is not an option, since it is already loaded with more important moves like Rapid Spin, Recover, Avalanche and Earthquake.

Meanwhile Scizor deletes the rest of the competitive Ice Pokemons:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 518-612 (143 - 169%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 432-510 (110.4 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Anything less than Scarf 252 Atk 252 Speed Kyurem-Bs are unviable for Mono Ice.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 129-153 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Only thing Cloyster can do is to Rock Blast or Razor Shell for less than 50% of Scizor's health.)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regice: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 432-510 (112.5 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While we're at it, let's throw in some Ice Ubers:
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 368-434 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 470-554 (119.8 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

To sum this up, Scizor vs Mono Ice is pretty much Talonflame vs Mono Grass, there is hardly anything Ice can do to stop Scizor from rampaging, and the only possible check has the risk of being deleted by luck. I do not play Rock often, but I think Rock holds it up better since the majority of the tier have overall better Defenses, with access to Mega Aggron to deal with Scizor. Granted, I should have saved replays of Scizor rampaging through everything I can offer. I only have one replay involving Scizor here (which Rotom Frost survives by a non 252 Attack Mega Scizor, imagine if it didn't.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-140440009

I would wish to ask for advice from any players proficient in Ice to suggest me options that are viable and capable of handling Scizor. If there really isn't any, I would like to request a ban.
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The problem with that is that Bug needs Scizor. W/o it they would get destroyed by so many things. Like Pyritie, I use Specs HP Fire Rotom to deal with him. (252 Hp / 4 Def / 252) Specs Wallrien is also an option (Specs HP Fire). You can also play mind games with him as well since no Heatran appreciates a Specs Surf / Hydro
 
Micro Mercury said:
He has not asked for the replays. I will give it to him if he asks for it.
I am also pretty sure he checked it himself on Pokemon Showdown.

and I am not against his point. Like I said, the previous statement of auto win, which I used, was to demonstrate the term used by Zarif, who claims that SS water was an auto win by ground.
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um when did I ever say SS Water was an auto win for Ground? I just said that if you know ur crap,you can beat Water with Ground.

Next time,dont make up things
 
I'm not sure if this has already been covered, but I don't think damp rock is the problem in general so much as it is on water teams. For instance, I run a manual rain dragon team and it does well, but its nowhere near top-tier or broken. However, it does rely on keeping that rain up for as long as possible to be viable at all. Would it be possible to ban Damp Rock on only water type pokemon?
 
Clarisaxx22 said:
So what are your thoughts on a bug monotype team
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Bug is a very powerful type, definitely up there in terms of usefulness. It carries a handful of valid mons in it's arsenal. I personally enjoy using Bug because all of its Mega-Pokemon are extremely viable. Mega-Heracross is actually useful in Bug if you support it correctly (Sticky Web). Scizor is just a top tier Fairy destroyer, and Pinsir is just a murderer. All around, Bug is an extremely good type!
 
Clarisaxx22 said:
So what are your thoughts on a bug monotype team
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Oh yes, I forgot about the bug team question. Clarisaxx22, Bug types are very usable especially if you favor hyper offensive teams. Whats cool about bugs is they're pretty versatile. Since Heracross and Scizor were mentioned, I'll use them as an example. On Heracross you can go with the old faithful Moxie/Scarf set, Mega with Bulk Up and no support, Mega with web support, or Mega with a Speed Boost/Swords Dance pass from Scolipede -- I have never been able to win against this when set up successfully. And then there's Scizor. The most common set I've seen on Mega Scizor is Swords Dance with two attacks (usually Bullet Punch and Bug Bite or Knock Off) and Roost, but it can use Defog somewhere in there if you'd rather forego a spinner. Then there's the classic Choice Band set, specially defensive with Assault Vest, or Life Orb with Roost which is my favorite set since I like to run Pinsir as my Mega.

Anyway, the point is I like bugs because its easy to keep your opponent on their toes so long as you have proper support... and a spinner/defogger!!

Hope that answered your question. Cheers.
 
Honestly, SS isn't even used that much. http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-06/oumonotype.txt On the usage lists, politoad(a staple on SS teams) is only ranked 49th. Balanced water is used much more that swift swim, and in my opinion equally good as swift swim.

If we were to nerf swift swim, the best answer in my opinion would be to ban damp rock. Damp rock allows the SS user a lot of turns without having to switch pack into drizzle, that's the main problem I encountered with swift swim anyway though.
 
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