Reqs:
http://prntscr.com/cd4ho3
I put this a few pages ago but decided to post instead of editing so people could see my reasoning.
But just so this post isn't useless, I'd like to ask you pro ban genesect people something - what makes genesect better than other atespeeders? And if you are running pinsirite, what's your set? shift gear, epseed, blaze kick, u-turn? because you bring up u-turn as a reason genesect is good, but then you can't keep the boost. and if you are pinsirite u-turn, doesn't taking 50% from rocks hurt? Genesect is good and everything, but so is entei. Boosting to +1 is pretty meh. I think pinsirite cobalion seems a lot better. Sure, you lose espeed, but you can get to +2, have access to taunt, don't have to run hasty, have way more physical bulk, have wayyyy better typing (resistant to most ates and can tank a glalite weavile hit anyway (252 Atk Refrigerate Weavile Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 196-232 (60.6 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery as a 142 power move for fake out + return)), have a higher power coverage move, return is stronger than espeed, and are faster when you need to use your coverage move (sure no espeed but 128 speed is pretty fast).
bug flying is ass. honestly, i think mixed genesect with techno blast is the best set, and not quite op enough to be banned in a meta where you can use ate boomburst noivern and other insane shit
"Sure you lose espeed" is legit the reason gene is used over coba lmao. I could say everything you just said (coba boosts faster, hits harder, has taunt, etc.) for a dozen other mons but access to espeed is what sets gene and the other atespeeders apart, which makes this comparison seem odd and irrelevant. Gene is the strongest and fastest atespeeder (technically entei is stronger but gene has a higher base atk), has the best set up move (shift gear>dragon dance>howl), can actually use its special attack stat (unlike the other atespeeders), and has download pre-mega, which is basically the ultimate pre-mega ability (hence why it is used on pdon in bh and most megas in aaa--don't bring up illusion plz i cba to get into that). Sure bug flying is a shit typing defensively but ur bring it in and taking a chunk out of the opposing team. I use it alongside entei and generally have gene nab the atk boost, spam espeed (or techno if they go into like pdon and u predict that) and then explode when ur done as gene has a decent 119 speed tier (i know its not the best but u click espeed v offense and its more than enough to outspeed bulky mons). You also forget that its bug/steel pre mega so it only takes 12.5% from rocks then. Personally I feel uturn is meh unless ur running like, metagrossite (which is also very viable). Also unlike the other atespeeders, genesect has other viable sets, such as metagrossite, diancite, lucarionite, and blue orb, and you don't know which one its running (ig apart from blue orb) until it mega evos, which sets it apart from other atespeeders (for those paying attention this was part of the reason dnite and luc were banned--sets other than ate that let them bop counters, whereas zyg/entei/arc are fairly one dimensional). And another thing it does well is blow holes in teams. It can just click Explosion and you can watch your "ate counter" die or get crippled to the point of no return, and then zyg or entei just sweeps.
Ok here goes nothing...
Genesect: no ban
Yes, it is strong as hell. Yes, techno blast hits like a truck. But there are quite a few flaws preventing genesect from being op.
1) it takes your ate stone
genesect is not nearly as good without ate, because then it's two best moves (espeed and techno blast) dont hit very hard. And im pretty sure every team i have faced has had an altarianite mon besides full out stall, and you aren't using this on stall. So don't evaluate gene in a vacuum, compare it to all the other altarianite mons and see if it really is that good in comparison.
2) it's best the first time
Especially when one of your moves is u-turn, it kinda sucks that you can only get the download boost the first time around.
3) it's weak to other espeeders
This is what did it for me. It dies to any pinsirite espeed, and what's running altarianite? entei, which resists both genesects stabs regardless.
4) it's speed tier sucks
in ou this was borked because scarfed u-turn just stole the momentum and because it was so fast. But in this meta, 99 speed is nothing at all. If it wants to kill faster stuff with espeed, then yes it is strong, but then it will be just another espeeder. You rarely have the time to fire off a techno blast against offensive teams. And like i mentioned earlier, its bug typing is really shitty, so every other espeeder beats it. So what are you killing with it? This and point 1 are the two main reasons, the others are just icing on the cake.
So yes, genesecet is strong, but the speed tier comes up short and other altarianite mons are also very strong.
Deoxys speed: no ban
I literally have not seen this at all on the ladder. And i don't think the ability to set up hazards is broken, especially when stall runs defog anyway. No ban unless it starts running amok on the ladder. In a meta dominated by espeeders, it's not good enough.
1. who cares its better than the other atespeeders lol? and if u mean other ates well you could still run like altarianite gene, pinsirite coba, and salamencite gyarados/landot. If that isnt enough for you then ive got nothing to say. and its still good without ate for the pivoting, the surprise factor, and the greater power on moves other than espeed. you also generally shouldnt be using techno on non ate sets so how is it being weaker a con, again? espeed may be weaker and non stab, sure, but at that point ur not using it as your main attacking move, just to pick stuff off, like in standard.
2. sure but its still got pretty good attack the second time, and uturn isnt even on all sets. you also can pick ur moment to mega evo (sometimes a +1 espeed kills w/o megaing or u would rather uturn or w/e)
3. and altarianite entei rks altarianite zyg, as well as altarianite dnite, so we should obviously unban that (i swear to god if one of you takes the dnite bit seriously i will consider your argument uninformed and thus void). but srsly how is this an argument? every team needs an ate counter... so just switch to that lmao. does atespeed make shit like keldeo and hoopau bad? the answer is no. and if the ate mon is weakened, well, it dies bcz gene is faster lol. i really dont get this argument at all.
4. its speed tier is decent enough as u click espeed v offense most of the time anyway and its checks are generally slower (rkers w/ prio u just switch out of, its not gene v the world, again go to ur ate check). and then u run into metagrossite which outpaces stuff like lucarionite terrakion and pidgeotite gengar. speed tier doesnt rly matter for wallbreakers and mons with priority, and if it does its only to outspeed other mons with priority, which gene does.
View attachment 68665
:
Unban
Genesect is undoubtedly is a top 5 mon in the meta atm, with Mixed Pinsirite Shift Gear probably being its best set that allows it to sweep pretty easily tbh. I will agree that it could be difficult to deal with to deal with after a even one Shift Gear boost. The main gripe I have with Genesect though that prevents it from being broken and too OP imo is that nasty x4 weakness that SR after the mega evolution that extremely limtits the amount of times it can swithcin and actually be able to pull off a boost and consecutively sweep. Hazards are more omnipresent than ever with Deoxys-S running around (which I will get to later...) and with my playtest playing and utilizing Genesect, this weakness coupled with the numerous other weaknesses it gains with that awful Bug/Flying weakness does not make it broken in my eyes. Incredibly strong, but not OP.
:
Ban
Im actually surprise people are not having a more negative feedback on this monster lol. I have been hearing countless mentions of its atespeed sets and offensive sets in general, and although those sets are pretty good, the real problem comes with its Ampharosite lead set. With Taunt, Deo-S can get at least a guaranteed 2 layers of hazards thanks to it gaining the incredible Dragon-typing giving it a ton of resistances and Mold Breaker just nullifying Magic Bounce entirely. This is so important as these hazards often benefit heavy hitters like Keldeo and Noivern, netting them crucial 2HKO's and sometimes OHKO's on switchins thanks to the incredible hazard support from Deo-S. To me there is very few counterplay from not letting Deo-S to not set up hazards besides atespeed, and this gives offense too much support in my eyes, leaving me to support banning Deoxys-S.
I also agree with Skarmory and Keldeo to A+ as they both influence the meta heavily.
its weak to sr, and this prevents it from being good how, exactly? if ur sweeping, u arent switching out and again u have that steel pre mega typing so u only take 1/8th from rocks. also hazards are p ez to remove, ive been using it rather successfully on a team with hitmonlee as the sole hazard remover ffs. and anyway it doesnt rly need to take hits at all, unless u run shift gear, which u should only need to set up once if u have eliminated its checks correctly, similar to mons like hoopau, except hoopau doesnt have a stab, 100+ bp move with +2 priority. weaknesses dont matter when u outspeed and ko the mons that could ko you :/
I think that's most of the pro-unban opinions? Basically what I've seen is its an ate so just use ate counters (which both isnt always true and it destroys some of the classic ate counters), its sr weak (which doesnt matter on sweeper sets and the good pivot sets keep typing w/ luc or meta stones and anyway hazard removal is ez), and i dont think its broken, which unfortunately i cant do anything about other than try to show you the faults in these arguments. Also most people tend to think genesect wont switch out of stuff it cant beat lmao and the checks given (that it 2hkos most of) either die to explosion or are mons u should prepare for anyway. Genesect does have five teammates so its p easy to add another ate, a hazard remover, hell even a trapper (mgar is legal atm even tho i thought it wasnt supposed to be and duggy, while a meme, can handle raikou and weaken other grounded checks, like pdon). Most of its checks lack recovery so its relatively easy to wear them down.
Also speaking of mgar doesnt stag clause mean stag is banned e.g. gengar @ gengarite should be illegal? i wasnt aware that it was changed so someone tell me if its a bug or smth that was supposed to happen.
Sorry for shit formatting, on ipad and typed this in a rush, hopefully i made everything clear.
