M&M Mix and Mega Suspect #4: Shaymin-Sky

[Chloe]

The Mix and Mega Council have decided that we will be conducting our fourth suspect test on Shaymin-Sky.
Due to Blazikenite still being unreleased, we have decided to take action, rather than wait any longer. If Blazikenite miraculously deems Shaymin-Sky fair/balanced and it has been banned as a result of the suspect test, then we can resuspect it back into the metagame at a later date.

Note: The suspect test is solely for Shaymin-Sky's ability to hold Mega Stones.

Shaymin-Sky had always been a somewhat underwhelming threat in the [Gen 7] Mix and Mega metagame; however, since the release of Pidgeotite, it has gained substantial viability, boosting itself above all other potent metagame threats. Initially, it was eclipsed by Darkrai and hence saw no usage whatsoever; however, due to its banning the real potency of Shaymin-Sky has been revealed. Evidently, Pidgeotite allows Shaymin-Sky to gain insane levels of Special Attack, a beneficial boost to Speed and of course, No Guard. No Guard combined with Shaymin-Sky's access to Grass Whistle means that Shaymin-Sky can only be efficiently checked by a handful of Sablenite users, or alternatively, relying on sleep fodder (often not a great way for a metagame threat to be handled). Overall, while we initially pushed for a quickban, a suspect test seems to be the better option given that its strength is not overtly broken to the extent that it needs one. Additionally, quick-banning at this late stage in the metagame (or this late after Pidgeotite's release) is more often than not, controversial, especially with the former point in mind. Avoiding that, and providing a solid mid-ground with a suspect test seems to be a suitable option. That being said, this thread is not to discuss the decision of a quickban versus a suspect test, but rather only discussion about the suspect and proof of suspect requirements.

Pidgeotite | No Guard | 100/103/80/185/85/147 (700 BST)

COIL: 2900
B: 10.5

How many battles you'll need to make reqs:

GXE N
100 23
95 27
90 34
85 46
80 74
75 215

To determine the amount of games you'll need to play to obtain requirements, input your GXE into Google Calculator using the equation "N=10.5/log2(40*GXE/2900)".
Alternatively you can input your GXE into this.

Where do I post reqs?
Post your suspect requirements proof in this thread, along with your vote. Ban, No Ban, or Abstain in bold so it makes it easier to tell what your vote is when counting.
You do not require a specific username, any alt may be used, as long as you provide a screenshot of requirements and proof that the alt is yours.

You may also discuss the current suspect test within this thread, as the thread is not limited to posting reqs.

The suspect test will last for two weeks, ending on June 13th.
60% Ban Majority required to Ban Shaymin-Sky.

TL;DR.
- Suspecting Shaymin-Sky from holding Mega Stones.
- COIL requirement is 2900, B value is 10.5
- Shaymin-Sky will be permitted to hold Mega Stones during suspect testing process.
- Post reqs proof on thread with vote in bold so it's easier to count.
- Suspect will end on June 13th.
- 60% ban vote required to ban.

ty The Immortal :)))

 

[Fardin]

does the council actually think that Blazkinite will be around long enough for shaymin to get a resuspect if it gets banned now?

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

does the council actually think that Blazkinite will be around long enough for shaymin to get a resuspect if it gets banned now?

I don't think it needs a resuspect with the reintroduction of Blazikenite... And while I don't speak for the council here, it does not change the fact that it would be ridiculously easy for Shaymin-Sky to pressure most of the meta when it's already switched in.

...We should focus on seeing if that Blazikenite is even balanced here, more than if Shaymin-Sky is balanced by allowing it.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

can deny this is one of the more annoying things in this tier right now , as though despite it being an easy kill , switching into it to take it down is more annoying with the sp. def drops , turning ur fat blissey or other mons into an easy 2hko , or the never missing grasswhistle that can put you to sleep as it wittles you down. Its especially hard to switch into if the sablenite mon on ur team hasnt gotten the chance to mega evolve yet. I even see some people subbing up predicting the switches it often forces out so they can get some free shots in the defensive mon you may attempt to use to wall it. Honestly though I speak as if in favor of ban on this subject, im still a bit iffy on my feelings of this mon. I can say one thing about this however , if u dont properly deal with this thing , it will always leave ur team with 1-2 mons down (usually the walls) or , ur walls on a very low amount of hp.

 

[Chloe]

does the council actually think that Blazkinite will be around long enough for shaymin to get a resuspect if it gets banned now?

My apologies, I did phrase that pretty poorly. What I meant to say was that seeing the effect on the metagame, whether it be non-existent due to a ban, or profoundly due to it being permitted, is important in gauging whether Shaymin-Sky would be broken in that state of the metagame. It was the previous reason I had given for delaying a suspect test, but is irrelevant now. Blazikenite's impact or possibility of a ban can be discussed at a later stage when we have experienced its potency or lack thereof.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

smh now I have to build a proper team

While Skymin can occasionally be underwhelming in practice due to the (comparatively) large number of things that can sometimes switch into it, what really kicks my goose is the spd drops that occur from Seed Flare invalidating switch-ins almost half the time. Its blazing speed allows it to get off a second move against most of the meta.

Balanced against that is that its largely predictable, has good, reliable counters (Sleep Talk Hooh for instance, because according to TiBot Skymin never runs HP Rock), has a pretty goddamn awful typing it doesn't do anything to fix, and its bulk, while not paper thin, isn't good for MnM.

And of course I hate accurate sleep, because who doesn't.
One question I have... if Skymin is banned (which I am neither for nor against at this point) what would replace it if anything? Are there other fast sleepers with high offensive pressure? Not that it should really matter I guess, but it might be helpful to have a comparison. I'd say we could then consider banning PIdgeotite if there are a bunch of ready replacements, but I understand that mons not stones are the main target of bans this gen.

 

[Schpoonman]

Gengar is the only one that comes to mind, but Gengar is significantly less powerful, its sleep move doesn't penetrate subs, and it's much much slower (the biggest difference between the two, IMO). Focus Blast still only does about a third to Sablenite Blissey, and with a far lower chance to drop Special Defense (and only by one stage, at that) you still aren't breaking it any time soon.

I've been absent a few weeks now, so I might be out of date, but Skymin was way too good last time I played and if I find it in me to ladder and ladder well enough to earn reqs, I'll most likely be voting ban. It's extremely fast (kinda mitigated by Weavile's ubiquity, but Skymin was still rolling people over last I checked), extremely strong with solid coverage (its weakest common move is Earth Power off base 185 SpA), and of course it has an almost-completely uncounterable sleep move in NG Grass Whistle. The encroaching update to Mega Stone Clause* only exacerbates the last issue, as seen in Stones Unleashed. Sablenite is so damn good that you can always bet on it making an appearance on anything but HO, but Absolite doesn't fit on nearly as many teams, and it's just about most useless on stall, which Skymin specializes in brutalizing.

*: Before anyone counts this as theorymonning and therefore invalid, we just had a bevy of hard experience with the full roster of Mega Stones in Gen 7 so I make the claim with certainty that No Guard sleep (especially sleep that penetrates Substitutes) is a massive point against Skymin's favor in a single-stone metagame, and that it is a valid concern to have with a limited suspect schedule. That being said, I believe I will still find Skymin to be unhealthy in the current metagame once I'm refreshed.

 

[The Immortal]

[Source]

Right after I posted the suspect The Pokémon Company decided to release Sceptilite, Blazikenite and Swampertite. >_> Which is good but seriously, their timing couldn't be more perfect.

Also, Galladite, Gardevoirite, and Lopunnite are going to release within the next month or so as well, but judging by the release of the aforementioned three, it might be a bit longer.

You could allow Shaymin-Sky during the suspect now

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Gengar is the only one that comes to mind, but Gengar is significantly less powerful, its sleep move doesn't penetrate subs, and it's much much slower (the biggest difference between the two, IMO). Focus Blast still only does about a third to Sablenite Blissey, and with a far lower chance to drop Special Defense (and only by one stage, at that) you still aren't breaking it any time soon.

I've been absent a few weeks now, so I might be out of date, but Skymin was way too good last time I played and if I find it in me to ladder and ladder well enough to earn reqs, I'll most likely be voting ban. It's extremely fast (kinda mitigated by Weavile's ubiquity, but Skymin was still rolling people over last I checked), extremely strong with solid coverage (its weakest common move is Earth Power off base 185 SpA), and of course it has an almost-completely uncounterable sleep move in NG Grass Whistle. The encroaching update to Mega Stone Clause* only exacerbates the last issue, as seen in Stones Unleashed. Sablenite is so damn good that you can always bet on it making an appearance on anything but HO, but Absolite doesn't fit on nearly as many teams, and it's just about most useless on stall, which Skymin specializes in brutalizing.

*: Before anyone counts this as theorymonning and therefore invalid, we just had a bevy of hard experience with the full roster of Mega Stones in Gen 7 so I make the claim with certainty that No Guard sleep (especially sleep that penetrates Substitutes) is a massive point against Skymin's favor in a single-stone metagame, and that it is a valid concern to have with a limited suspect schedule. That being said, I believe I will still find Skymin to be unhealthy in the current metagame once I'm refreshed.

I would recommend against using the Stones Unleashed tour as evidence for very much, as it is a very small sample size. I know Chloe. has made this point before.

If you (or anyone) do want some more practical experience the tour format with all stones is on Dragonheaven, and Skymin is unbanned (for full banlist see the tour thread here, there's also a format on Dragonheaven where you can play without any extra bans). It really wasn't that omnipresent in the tour tbh, but that might just have been people using other shiny new toys instead of it. Diancite mons can bounce Grasswhistle and often outspeed thanks to crazy speed boosts, but can't switch into attacks for their life.

Also: some sets I built abusing the same basic mechanic. I'm sure at least some are awful (see: Crobat, Hardy Jolteon and Espeon (why must Sing be an event move)) and I think the point of these is to show what a step down in general it is after Skymin. The main threats here imo are Sceptile and Gengar, and Raichu seems... all right, although Jolteon is still faster than it lol. And stronger. And bulkier. Actually I'm failing to see why you'd use Raichu-A at all. Oh right Nasty Plot + secondary stab, nvm.

sets

Sceptile @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Grass Whistle
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse

Jolteon @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hardy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Sing
- Shadow Ball
- Volt Switch

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder

Espeon @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hardy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sing
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam

Raichu-Alola @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sing
- Thunder
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock

Crobat @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Sludge Bomb

EDIT:
worse skymin (Shaymin) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Whistle
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam

 

[Chloe]

You could allow Shaymin-Sky during the suspect now

I guess that works out doesn't it, lol. Sure, let's do it.

Attention to everyone:
Shaymin-Sky will be permitted to hold mega stones during the suspect process.

 

[fififlutters]

I'll put some quality writing here sometime, but I'm voting Ban for now.

I previously decided that I wanted to ban Shaymin-Sky, however, looking back at my overall ladder experience, it didn't really do that much to me. Whilst 100% accurate sleep at 147 speed sounds dangerous, the combination of Sablenite users that can punish misplays and wall Shaymin-Sky are too vast to put too much of a strain on teambuilding. This does mean that a magic bounce user is almost required if you don't want to sleep fodder, however, this was almost always considered in teambuilding right from the start to make getting Stealth Rock on the field harder.

The main problem with Shaymin-Sky is its Seed Flare's chance to drop Special Defense by two stages, essentially making Shaymin-Sky much harder to wall. An example with Sablenite Zapdos, with Stealth Rocks on the Zapdos' side of the field:

252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Zapdos: 95-112 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. -2 248 HP / 8 SpD Zapdos: 190-224 (49.6 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

With the 40% chance of dropping Special Defense by two stages, Zapdos ends up unable to wall Shaymin-Sky, with a high chance of being KO'd after Stealth Rock damage. However, without this drop, Zapdos is able to pivot out into another Aerilate or Glalitite user or Roost against the opposing Shaymin-Sky in hopes of not getting the Special Defense drop, in order to keep healthy for the remainder of the match.

This gets me on to my other point - Shaymin-Sky is too easily revenge killed by -ate + priority, such as Zygarde-50%, Weavile, Genesect, et cetera. Whilst the more uncommon Substitute set breaks through Weavile, the other two can survive a Seed Flare/Air Slash (if Genesect has not mega evolved with Pinsirite - 252 SpA Shaymin-Sky Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 186-220 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) and proceed to KO Shaymin-Sky. As well as this, Shaymin-Sky's bulk makes it very difficult to get in on unresisted hits, and with a bad Grass/Flying typing, it has very few moves it can switch into, requiring support from pivots to get into the playing field. Here's a few calculations:

252 Atk Refrigerate Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 588-692 (172.4 - 202.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 420-494 (123.1 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 374-444 (109.6 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Weavile Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 436-520 (127.8 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Weavile Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 336-396 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky in Heavy Rain: 171-202 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-Sky: 197-232 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shaymin-Sky: 187-220 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Due to the difficulty Shaymin-Sky experiences getting in, and the fact that it needs to get a roll to break through the Pokemon that wall it, I find Shaymin-Sky too luck based to really make such a powerful impact like other Pokemon such as Pheromosa have done, and, whilst its traits are almost unbeatable once Magic Bounce users are out of the game, a good team can easily revenge kill/force it out of play. This, combined with its poor bulk and a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock, does not make Shaymin-Sky such a bannable threat like it is hyped up to be. So... my vote is decided as Do Not Ban.

 

[QT]

Welcom to my second Mix and Mega RMT, Who even likes Zygarde. Below, you can see the excellent run and proof of peak:





Teambuilding:
For my first Pokemon, i chose...

Wait, this is suspect reqs, not RMT. Uh, voting Do Not Ban.

 

[QT]

View attachment 83093


HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM

Shaymin-S is allowed to hold stones in the suspect:

I guess that works out doesn't it, lol. Sure, let's do it.

Attention to everyone:
Shaymin-Sky will be permitted to hold mega stones during the suspect process.

​

TL;DR.
- Suspecting Shaymin-Sky from holding Mega Stones.
- COIL requirement is 2900, B value is 10.5
- Shaymin-Sky will be permitted to hold Mega Stones during suspect testing process.
- Post reqs proof on thread with vote in bold so it's easier to count.
- Suspect will end on June 13th.
- 60% ban vote required to ban.

ty The Immortal :)))

 

[Davorac]

I am voting Do Not Ban.

I am of the opinion that Skymin is overrated. Skymin is not a bad pokemon, but it is not the end-all be-all threat some people make it out to be. It is weak to all kinds of -speediate, including the two most common users of Weavile and Genesect. In addition, you always have to guess whether or not the opposing poke is carrying Absolite or Sablenite if you want to put something to sleep. If they have one already transformed, you also have to consider if they are going to switch it in.

Furthermore, Skymin is outsped by Deo-S and Tapu Koko, both of which see play, and can kill or cripple it enough to not be a threat any longer. Skymin also struggles a bit against Sablenite Blissey. If you can nail it with -2 SpD on the switch in, great, but even at -2 Seed Flare only does around 50%. If you don't get the drop, or even worse, have to switch into Blissey instead of the other way around, then you are in rough shape.

What Skymin does is act as a kind of gatekeeper or fun police. If your team is bad, Skymin will probably sweep it. You need some kind of check to Skymin, and I think this is where most of the concerns come from. There are other pokemon who serve the same function, including the aforementioned Weavile and Genesect. As MnM is a very high-powered meta, it's not strange that there are a lot of really dangerous pokemon.

Skymin does have a good matchup against one of the most ubiquitous pokemon in the meta right now, Primal Groudon. I think this is actually good for the meta, as Pdon sees a little too much play, and having to guess if it's a bulky stealth rock set or a swords dancing/rock polishing set can cost a lot of games.

If Skymin loses the ability to hold stones, I doubt it would see any more play. Serene Grace just isn't enough to justify it, unlike for example Pheromosa, which sees play sporadically as a sasher.

 

[thesecondbest]

If Skymin loses the ability to hold stones, I doubt it would see any more play. Serene Grace just isn't enough to justify it, unlike for example Pheromosa, which sees play sporadically as a sasher.

I agree with most of what you said but this is not an argument, it doesn't matter if skymin won't see play, it should still get banned if broken and left legal if not broken
But I do agree with you that most good teams should be prepared for skymin, just like how sablenite blissey can carry low ladder, and that it should probably not be banned but i will try to get reqs then elaborate

 

[Whitephoenixace]

https://imgur.com/gallery/yvbcF still dont know how to post pictures, so heres my proof

my vote is DO NOT BAN.

Honestly thing is more an annoyance like a a stinging wasp , but just like a wasp it is easily squished. The things wall breaking prowess depends on rolls. And all ate user send it to oblivion in one hit. Even with sleep hax , most (Should be) carrying a mon with magic bounce just for the sake of rocks/spikes. And honestly with the addition of blazikenite it seems to be getting more beaten down as more mons outspeed it and ohko it. It might need to be re considered after the blazikenite ban , but honestly dont feel it will still pose a threat then .

 

[Fardin]

i dont think blazikenite should be allowed for this suspect. that stone is just so dominent rn, nothing stops it. Skymin looks like a B- ranked poke rn among all these speed boosting user such as Lando(500 base attack), Xurk (470 base spa ), kartana, mahaphy (tail glow), Tyra, Salamence. imo quick ban blazikenite rn cause a suspect for it would be a waste of time and then just procced with this skymin thingy

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Honestly Skymin seems not broken with Blazikenite in the tier, just because anything that can reach 249 speed before mega evolving can outspeed it at +1, and anything with an ice attack can kill it.

Examples are Manaphy, which only needs to run 52 speed, Xurkitree, which needs more speed and Hp Ice, Ice Punch Hoopa-U... and others (why can't Hoopa kill it without Ice Punch ew bulk). And of course you have Weavile and Glalitite Genesect and the old stuff and whatever. Basically a huge number of things can revenge Skymin now.

Switching in is still a problem but the HO nature of the Blazikenite teams that are dominating the meta rn make that not as much of a problem. Basically whatI think I'm saying is: I want Blazikenite banned first, then Skymin.

I wrote this well before what Fardin said above but I'll just say that I agree with everything. The only Skymin set that has given me any trouble is Sub.

i dont think blazikenite should be allowed for this suspect. that stone is just so dominent rn, nothing stops it. Skymin looks like a B- ranked poke rn among all these speed boosting user such as Lando(500 base attack), Xurk (470 base spa ), kartana, mahaphy (tail glow), Tyra, Salamence. imo quick ban blazikenite rn cause a suspect for it would be a waste of time and then just procced with this skymin thingy

 

[Vhayle]

I'm voting DO NOT BAN



( Just QuickBan Blazikenite )

 

[Mark K]

Do Not Ban
( Not even Blazikenite )

 

[gmfc]

Vote: DO NOT BAN

Reasoning: I think most people would agree that Skaymin-Sky is a highly regarded special attacker in a post-Pheromosa meta. Having access to Seed Flare and Grass Whistle, he can easily tear down walls while having no fear for subs, not to mention being one of the most hax inducing mons around. However, while he can be a threat, he's extremely susceptible to -ate spam and unlike Phero, neither his typing and nor his slightly above average speed can take full advantage of having Tapu Lele as cover. And with defog being nearly ubiquitous, not even Sticky Webs will help 100% of the time against faster sweepers or other pidg abusers. Personally, the only thing broken about Skymin is the fact that he can't miss, to which I've been adamant about since pidgeotite's release: the issue isn't the mon holding the stone, it's the stone itself. But I digress, Skymin's easily one of my favorite spatker at the moment, but being as relatively frail and slow as he is, I don't see him as being broken nor centralizing and i vote do not ban.

 

[Young Killer]

My vote is for Ban.

 

[Kentari]

Ban Shaymin-Sky from holding Mega Stones.

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

QT is an insomniac; more news at 11
https://gyazo.com/84f18c152678a51ce123d938a3b4b447

Alright, time to really lead the charge here.

If you know me, you should already know how I feel about this. I wish to vote to Ban Shaymin-Sky.

I really don't feel as strongly about this as some others, but regardless, there's a few things that make me lean strongly towards banning this such as the first wave of mostly poorly reasoned dnb votes. Guaranteed sleep's a very decisive action here, but I'll touch on that later... What you should know is that there are four main points that contributes to Shaymin-Sky being a wee bit too powerful for the grasp of Mix and Mega. Let's educate ourselves, shall we?

1.) Seed Flare
Let's be honest, this is probably the first thing anyone thinks about with Shaymin. It's one of the best moves in the game, with a whopping 120 power with a very good secondary effect. It's pretty much a stronger Acid Spray in base Shaymin Sky's... uh... feet? It doesn't have any hands. ANYWAYS, even without Serene Grace, Shaymin Sky has a 40% chance to half the opponent's special defense, in addition to the big damage caused on the outset. Did I mention this is a signature move, so nothing can replicate this?

2.) Grasswhistle
Before the light of the OMs touched us, we never thought much of Grasswhistle. It was just an alternative Sing... And then you slap No Guard on a fearsome attacker. You get a sleep move that can't miss. This is mainly what Shaymin does to lock down the tier: put something to sleep, and then bringing in a sweeper which has a good chance of wrecking your team. Or just doing the dirty work itself, if able. Magic Bounce blocks this, but you don't always have time to get all of those Mega Evolutions going...

3.) SPEED
By golly, does Shaymin-Sky have speed. A whole 127 base points of it. Pidgeotite beings that to 147, which coupled with the previous points, is stupidly high. And yes, Extreme Speed and Weavile don't care about that, but let's step back to see what we're dealing with here... A base 147 speed Pokémon with a 100% accurate sleep move, coupled with a very strong Grass STAB and a high Special Attack to boot. And this is where it differentiates with Gengar: it has base 130 with Pidgeotite. This is a very good speed, but can be speed tied with things like base 90 Absolite users... and base 95 Absolite users such as Kyruem and Tapu Lele just outspeed it. For something like Shaymin Sky, which is even faster, most of the tier falls short, leaving Shaymin first dibs as to attacking, which will often lead to heavy damage. Paralyzing it is a good idea, but good luck in not finding a rare Substitute user among the all out attackers to use it on.. Even with all this, Shaymin-Sky can still be walled handily by most Steel types. This next point challenges that notion.

4.) Earth Power
Yep. Shaymin-Sky has good coverage, too. Steels such as Heatran, Jirachi, Klinklang, and Solgaleo that would wall Shaymin comfortably have to deal with this move. And it hurts off of base 185 Special Attack. Even Sablenite Magearna is cleanly 3HKOed, making it a one time counter at best.
Naturally, this leaves a scant few actual counters. There are more checks, but most of this is due to priority, which a proper team has answers to, and Shaymin will be inevitably paired with. As for these answers, they are:
(Defensive) Zapdos, Latias, Skarmory, Celesteela, Ho-oh (arguably the best of the lot), and potentially Giratina and Magearna, along with the obligatory Blissey.

Some of these are better than others, but this is an extremely short list. There are more offensive checks, but they aren't really guaranteed to work, given that switching exists. (But are not punished hard on momentum, thankfully) Though Stealth Rocks is not a small punish for Shaymin-Sky, given it's weak to them.

And for such an anemic list, it makes a metagame rather dull. If something is dominating, counters will show up en masse. Given the prevalence of offensive checks to Shaymin already, it's not easy to tell if a particular trend is healthy, per say. But I already know that the four points above lead to a threat well above the others. As for replacements... we have Sceptile, who is a perfectly balanced version of Shaymin-Sky (that plays slightly differently due to coverage options, but that's alright...)

 

[Racool]

was gonna hit u all up with a massive essay on why I think skymin should be banned, but im really tired and ZDL already has done that to an extent anyways. Gonna keep it short, im voting BAN
proof of reqs: